apinknightmare

I don't think he'd want Thea, I think he'd want Oliver. And why? Why anything with this show - for shock value, I guess. It's just a theory. I'm going to C&P my post about it from the last page when we were talking about Ra's possibly wanting Oliver and Nyssa to provide him with an heir or wanting Oliver to join the LoA (that's the only reason the thought entered my mind in the first place):

Does he want Thea? He's such a lying manipulator, who even knows if that's true. He put her in Ra's crosshairs once to save his own ass, why wouldn't he do it again?

Kind of. She doesn't know what he went through for her. It'd be a little different if she knowingly volunteered herself and then he stepped in. Again. Not that that's what I think will happen. Seems more likely to me that we'll find out Ra's and Malcolm were in on Sara's murder together.

Probably because he's worried Malcolm will rat Thea out like the piece of dog shit that he is.

Ugh. What exactly does Thea need saving from? She seems to be figuring this shit out on her own, which is more than I can say for Oliver at this point. And how does her soul getting saved factor in in this episode? Does SHE somehow get tangled up with the League, either by turning herself in or...wanting to join them, and then Oliver steps in and pulls a Katniss Everdeen by volunteering as Tribute? They haven't really foreshadowed her feeling that kind of dark apart from Slade mentioning that she was lost, and how she wasn't sure she was a killer so maybe she does do something next-level stupid this ep. I mean, at this point, why the hell not? CHANGE THAT GAME, GET PEOPLE TALKING

I mean, we only see one hour out of a week and sometimes more of these people's lives. All they have to do is mention what they're doing on their off time, maybe do a quick training montage like they did at the beginning of 3x05 - and call it a day.

Fair enough. I honestly don't care if Laurel or Ray ever get on-screen training, because then I'd have to watch it. And I really don't want to watch it.

I don't know, I don't really have a problem with heroism coming easy to some people. I don't think all heroes journeys need to be full of angst and pain. It's taking a long time for Oliver because of everything that he went through - he's got to undo half a lifetime of being a frivolous, vapid shit, a scared kid on an island, a guy who had to kill to stay alive, an ARGUS informant against his will, a member of the Bratva, and a stone-cold, unrepentant murderer. Personally, I don't care if it takes Roy (and to an extent, Laurel) a few months or a year in show time to become a serviceable fighter. It doesn't lessen Oliver's journey, IMO. He's on a more emotionally broken path than any one else on this show was, apart from Sara. And honestly, I don't really care to invest myself in Roy or Laurel or Ray's emotional journey, so I'm okay with it being sped up. I don't mind watching Oliver learn his lessons and trip his way into becoming a hero, although I could do without some of his repeat dumbassery.

So, with Ra's saying what he did about Nyssa/Sara only ending in heartbreak, maybe he and Malcolm ARE in cahoots with Sara's murder and Ra's agreed to let Malcolm off the hook if he could get Oliver involved in order to have an 'heir' and Malcolm drugged Thea to do it for leverage/as a test. Not sure if Oliver would find that out or if Ra's would make his offer with Oliver in the dark? I hope it's not anything like that though-I really don't want Oliver made into THAT big of an idiot.

So, that new preview...Ra's knows Malcolm was behind Sara's murder. At least there's someone around who isn't an idiot. He must admire Oliver's idiocy/bravery/whatever for coming forward to save Thea (I'm guessing he knows Thea did it), so yeah. I think the offer is to join the League and/or be Nyssa's baby daddy because that relationship talk seemed anvil-y to me, but maybe that's just because this show has made me a suspicious, untrusting bastard.

Yeah, I think the hospital is more a location than an actual plot point. Felicity probably cuts her hand chopping vegetables or something and she and MS go to the hospital for stitches and then some shit goes down there and Felicity helps sort it out. It's just the way that spoiler came out, saying that MS's scenes took place in a hospital, like ALL her scenes were there. It's kind of baffling that she'd show up there for something minor, but then again MG is a troll, so who knows when or why she shows up or if she's even there the whole time. As for Malcolm riding Oliver's coattails home - maybe he doesn't? Maybe Ra's keeps him and Oliver gets away?

Could be. MG's spoilers were that MS's scenes took place at a hospital and that Felicity was in the hospital for an injury (although he wouldn't say whose). But MS doesn't interact with anyone but Felicity - so maybe she'd come to support Felicity because she's upset. But then there's the spoiler that MS wouldn't interact with anyone but Felicity, so she'd either be in the hospital for another person's injury, or Oliver's in a coma and she can't talk to him, and no one like Thea or Diggle would come to visit him while she was there. IDK. It's tough to figure this one out.

Could be. I wonder what Ra's would want to do with that virus though? I thought the League's whole spiel was ridding the world of evil - would he want Oliver to get it from Waller or whomever has it now to destroy it or something? That seems very low-level for him, haha.

If he offers that, she doesn't take it. She's in SC for Diggle's wedding in 3x17.

So, the outcome of the face-off is going to be the TWIST everyone's talking about? I guess it's an offer, considering the next episode is called The Offer. Possibilities: 1. He wants Oliver to join the League 2. He wants Oliver and Nyssa to procreate (which is especially gross since Nyssa is gay and of course this show would do that) 3. He offers to let them all off scot free if Oliver stays in Nanda Parbat 4. He offers to be Oliver's mentor (for what?) 5. He legit kills Oliver this time and "The Offer" is for use of the good ol' Lazarus Pit in exchange for something 6. Some other hot mess I think whatever the offer is, Oliver must turn it down. He's got to do something to piss Ra's off in order for Ra's to come after him. Unless he does join and then reneges immediately after or something. I bet Nanda Parbat ends with Ra's offering Oliver League membership or whatever, and then in the next episode Oliver will consider it, and Nyssa and/or Maseo will help him escape to Starling City where they all work together to defeat the common enemy or whatever. I just don't think Oliver actually joins the League at all considering he's in town for Diggle's wedding and for whatever goes on in 3x18.

She did make contact with him, she was just texting him lies. Which is also stupid, because assume she even told Malcolm that she left Roy a note about not wanting to be weak anymore or whatever - Malcolm would also have to assume that Roy would give it to Oliver to make Oliver suspicious enough about Thea's whereabouts to even go looking for her. It took Oliver MONTHS to get suspicious when he kept telling Thea to send him pictures of where she was and she never did and wouldn't call him back, so....

From the SPOILERS ONLY thread: What? The only thing Oliver has tying him to Oliver is his relationship with Thea. The rest is all Arrow. He doesn't have any friends apart from his team, he has no family left apart from his sister. He doesn't have a job. He lives with Thea. He's not in a romantic relationship. He has no hobbies, does nothing fun. He's literally giving nothing up to be the Arrow. He has almost no life as Oliver Queen as-is. He hasn't since, like, fifteen minutes in The Calm. This is the worst identity crisis ever.

Yep. If they were going to kill Sara off, I would've liked for that smiling woman getting on that boat to go back to the League after being ready to KILL HERSELF to get away from them had some kind of a plan to bring them down or something. Sure, it's a huge, foolish undertaking, but they had six months of nothing over the summer to build something up, and she could've used Starling City and Team Arrow to put some pieces of the chess board of her plan in order and then gotten killed/kidnapped, thus having Ra's and Team Arrow/Oliver legit clash. Ah, what could've been.

Yeah, I mean...I definitely have issues with Laurel and how her story is/was written. I just think that in terms of making the story/characters stupid, Malcolm's inclusion into the story is just the worst. If he hadn't come back, then we wouldn't have had the awful decision that set off all the awful decisions that followed in Thea being drugged in order to kill Sara. The rest is just a domino effect of idiocy.

True. But most of the ones that fell flat did so because they were just plain tone deaf and/or awful.

I know a lot of people might disagree with me, but I think the absolute biggest misstep of this season was bringing John Barrowman back. Don't get me wrong - I really liked Sara and I thought she had a far more intriguing backstory and motivation for becoming a vigilante, and I do think it was a mistake to kill her off in order to fuel Laurel's journey into...whatever, and characters have most definitely been bent/made into idiots to fit Laurel into the plot, but nowhere near to the extent they have to make Malcolm happen. Sara should've gone missing or something at the beginning of the season - they shouldn't have killed her off right away. They could've brought Ra's in that way - maybe Sara had been up to something that was going to take the League down or maybe she was caught in the crosshairs between Ra's and some other villain doing some good kind of double-agent thing, and she went to Oliver for help in the premiere and then disappeared. The team could've brought Laurel in to help find her or...something. And then, mid-season, they could've found her dead if they really wanted to get rid of CL. Then Oliver and Ra's could've gone toe-to-toe over it or whatever. I mean, there's Oliver letting Malcolm go/telling Nyssa Malcolm was under his protection in The Magician, Laurel knowing he's alive and not trying to bring him to justice (which, fair...she's a terrible DA), Thea believing in him ever-at all-after being so pissed at Moira over her role in the Undertaking, Oliver teaming up with him...ever, and the fact that just this last episode the writers actually negated the whole reason Oliver had for teaming up with him in the first place. When Malcolm called Oliver on Lian Yu, he said that Oliver told him the reason he lost to Ra's was because he hesitated to kill him. 1) Sure, Jan 2) THAT'S NOT AT ALL WHAT HAPPENED, and 3) if that's the case, THEN WHAT DOES OLIVER NEED MALCOLM FOR? He already knows how to defeat him, he just needs to kill him. But he showed in The Return that he's still not really willing to be a killer. The stupidity actually hurts. And that's just all the idiotic crap that's already happened. Can't imagine what other idiotic crap we're in for.

Yeah, I read that NPH was one of a team of twelve writing jokes for the show. Yikes.

Same. And yeah-they were responsible for that mess.

I don't know, on one hand I find it kind of ridiculous that Stephen would miss something like Paleyfest to attend a con, and on the other hand, why wouldn't the producers make him go? He's contractually obligated to do it if they tell him to. It's weird. Maybe he'll be on the panel via satellite or something? As for the show, he might be unhappy with his decreased role, but then again he also gets to spend more time with his family while still being the technical lead and making the same salary, so maybe it doesn't bother him that much? And I don't know that his lack of Facebook posts about the show necessarily point to him being unhappy with the direction Arrow's taking - he doesn't take criticism well, and I'm sure he knows that a lot of what's going on right now might get the more vocal crowd fired up and commenting, kind of like the poster did when he posted it over the hiatus. Maybe it's just a way of not having to deal with BS since he knows what's going to happen on the show and we don't. I don't think him booking a movie is anything to speculate over. He said he had three separate movies booked over the last hiatus, and all three of them fell through. Maybe this one's higher profile? Or maybe it'll fall through too.

Well, that was kind of my point - she hasn't been boxing, and she hasn't been training with a weapon. She just wanted to go out there, so she grabbed what she could use without having much skill - clearly Sara's bo staff didn't work, so she found the tonfa (where, who knows) and uses that because she can use it without having to know how to use it. She does need to train with it. And I totally think she'd go out there without having boxed in a couple of months or doing training on the side. She has a delusional self-confidence about her. This whole thing just isn't working that well because she's oddly proficient (to make it seem like she's not so completely out of her element that Oliver and co would physically stop her from going out and hurting herself), and yet not proficient enough (to show us that she still has a long way to go). They bungled it in their rush to get her in the buckles - surprise, surprise.