apinknightmare

A little facial hair and motor grease and yasssssss

So...that's a fake virus, or...they're all inoculated. Or...wtf Like Oliver left them there to die? LMAO

Well, that was gross in every way. ETA: I mean the wedding, not the ep as a whole

So, I'm hoping the team is craftier than to just randomly unleash a virus that they're specifically going to NP to stop the spread of, so here's what I'm also hoping: Nyssa informed Felicity and team of the virus, and left it in SC. She had a fake (possibly passable) version of it in her sword - that's what Ra's has in his possession. They hear that Ra's is going to unleash it on Starling, and knowing that he'll find out it's not real and probably murder the hell out of everyone once he does, they'll return with the real virus, having been inoculated thanks to Caitlin and Cisco. They return to NP with the real virus, intent on letting it go in NP and ending the LoA. I can't decide if Ra's, Nyssa and Oliver get on the plane thinking they have the virus, and Oliver thinks he's leaving them behind somewhat safe, or if he's on the plane and fleeing like a complete tool knowing it's been spread. If he doesn't realize they have the fake version, I want them to show Felicity or someone holding up the vial once Oliver's already on the plane, and then he realizes what's happening and then frantically tries to get out to stop her, even though she's and the rest of the team have been inoculated, but he doesn't know that. Or maybe he does know that, and we just think he's being all heartless and shitty and come to find out in the finale that he's aware that they're going to be okay but the rest of the LoA is gonna die. That would make the most sense with him going to CC on Tuesday.

I think it's just the light reflecting off the buttons on the cuff of her jacket.

I know, that's incredibly stupid. Or...maybe Felicity brought the one Nyssa took to Starling with her to wipe out NP?

Ah, yeah, haha. Good point.

I wonder how this would work though. Does no one check to see if they still have the vial? Did they switch it out with a fake one? Why would Oliver get on a jet to spread the virus if there is no virus because TA already unleashed it?

Yeah, I was just thinking that. I posted it a couple of comments above. I wonder if that's how Felicity is key - she disposes of the virus, but has to expose herself to it in order to do that. They'll probably end the ep with blood coming out of her mouth like with Akio.

Since Felicity is key in saving Starling from the virus, I wonder if she somehow unleashes it in Nanda Parbat? Or if she contacts Barry and STAR Labs and somehow manages to get something going so they could drop it nearby and they could take care of it? That would give Oliver a reason to be in CC for the Flash ep, and then Ra's tries to destroy SC by other means in the finale? Maybe Felicity somehow finds a way to get rid of the virus but has to expose herself to it in order to do that?

Yeah, I guess I just don't get it? Pre-Ra's Oliver is different than the one they're dealing with now. She said he died when he joined the League. So I don't really see where the denial is, because that is true. He is a different Oliver now, which she's not arguing? And I don't even know where Diggle and Laurel are coming from.

Anyone else think that Ra's knows that Oliver's faking and is going to do something terrible to Felicity to get him to react?

I think we're both arguing basically the same thing. It doesn't make sense. It seems like Felicity is thinking that the League turned Oliver into something that he's not, while Laurel and Diggle seem to be arguing that it's letting him be who he is. Which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. So, to get back to the initial argument (haha), Laurel and Diggle aren't going to be proven right in this argument, because they're wrong - Oliver isn't this kindapping child abandoner at heart.

I guess my disconnect here is that I don't think that they're arguing that he's brainwashed or not brainwashed. It seems like they're believing that this is who Oliver is - that's why it's strange to me that Laurel says "how can you be so sanguine (ugh)" about it - like why is Felicity that optimistic about Oliver after everything they've seen him do - thinking that he's a good guy who was lost after he joined the League. The way this comes off to me is that Diggle and Laurel are arguing that this is showing them that Oliver just is a bad guy.

But Felicity is arguing that Oliver is brainwashed, that the person they know and loved is dead. Diggle and Laurel are arguing (at least the way the scene is presented) that Felicity's being silly to think that their Oliver is gone, that THIS is their Oliver - the guy who kidnapped Lyla and did all those things. Not that he's brainwashed, that this IS who he is. That argument (to me) takes out any consideration for the fact that the guy might be having to pretend and didn't do any of that stuff because he wanted to or to hurt anyone (and he didn't).

Maybe it's the same thing that happened with Diggle and Felicity when they planned Roy's thing, but the opposite. He thinks they'll be safer if they believe he's really lost. If they believe he's really lost then they won't try to come and get him or break him out or do anything to jeopardize the plan he has. Obviously, the introduction of the A/O virus might change that.

But he wasn't being fully himself. He was having to play a part to fool Ra's into thinking he was brainwashed. ETA: Honestly, for all we know, Oliver might've thought that showing a little bit of ruthlessness towards his friends might've been a show of faith indicating that they aren't really a threat to his new persona to keep them safe in the long run - assuming he WAS in his right mind then, and hasn't had a breakthrough in the last week or something.

Are they though? This is why this argument doesn't work for me. They're saying that this new evil Oliver is the real Oliver, not that the real Oliver is working on a plan and acting evilly. Like the evil man who kidnapped Lyla is who he is now. It's not. Felicity's wrong too, but she's wrong in a good way. "Her" Oliver didn't die the moment he joined the League. He's still in there, he just can't be himself right now. Laurel and Diggle are legit writing off the guy they knew. Laurel I get because she doesn't really seem to care too much about him these days, but Diggle should know better.

Yeah. The finale is supposed to feel like an ending to the first three seasons, and Diggle and Oliver are gonna be on the outs? Ugh.

Yeah, I guess part of the problem for me is that of all the people involved I would imagine Diggle would be the most able to cope with something like this, especially with Lyla's history with ARGUS and the military. He should be the first to realize that Oliver might be faking and working to take Ra's down from the inside, ESPECIALLY since Lyla was never hurt and was turned over immediately. He should be more pissed that Oliver left his daughter alone, IMO.

But last week he was telling Oliver that what he was doing wasn't him, so now he's saying it is him. So previously he was acknowledging that Oliver wasn't acting as himself, but he and Laurel seem to be arguing that Oliver IS himself, which...why would they think that? Diggle at least has three years worth of evidence to the contrary. I can see him being angry, I guess. But this level of irrational is weird to me.

I'm confused by the argument, and maybe it's because I've had a long day at work, but. Diggle and Laurel think that IS Oliver as in something he would do just to fuck with them if he wasn't in the League? I'm not getting where they're coming from. Felicity's arguing that he's not the same person, and Diggle is arguing that the real Oliver did this, like this is the person he always was is not who they thought even though (at least, for Diggle) three years of friendship proves otherwise? Like he would've been capable of fucking with Digg's family (in, again, what is the blandest kidnapping EVER) just because if the stakes weren't, you know, HUGE?

I understand your point, I just think his speed will be a factor in this ep more so than his ability to time travel, because, unless I'm forgetting something, Barry doesn't seem to even know how he time traveled.

Oh god, that sneak peak with Felicity, Laurel and Digg. It's going to take everything I have in me to watch this damn episode and I'm going to need all kinds of alcohol. I really just want to nope on out.

If it does, I think it probably only goes back as far as whenever the virus makes it to SC, and I'm still even skeptical about that since time travel has never been mentioned on this show before, unless Barry says, "hey, I know a way I can undo this..." and then runs or something. ETA: except I'm still kind of doubtful about this, because as of now, Barry doesn't know exactly how he time traveled does he? He said he did it by accident. Not that that would matter here necessarily, I guess he could figure out it next week. Or maybe they'd never explain it.