WearyTraveler

Jorah doesn't get greyscale in the books, but Jon Connington does. The show is giving Jorah that part of his plot. Also, I think that to get infected you need to touch infected skin. The stone men that attacked Jorah and Tyrion were covered head to toe with the disease, Jorah's only got a little area on his arm active. I'm not completely sure about this, though, so, if someone has a better recollection of greyscale transmission from the books, by all means...

I think whenever someone tries to hide something (as they are blatantly trying to do here), it creates more interest in finding out what the secret is.

I totally teared up at when Sam was doing the funeral service for Aemon. Great delivery of those lines (and the music probably played a part too). Best part of the episode was seeing Ghost. Dorne is ridiculous. Cersei making empty threats that she will not be able to carry was fun. Regarding the direction of the Sansa plot, next week's preview is up on youtube and it seems (spoiler fonting the preview, just in case)

Chills!

I like that they said Can't wait for

Awesome!

Peter: "Ned Stark was a lot of fun" Backup singers: "So fun!" LMAO!!!

Well, if it's confirmed that the scene was shot that way, then, it's confirmed that the reason the actresses haven't filmed a scene together was because of backstage issues, and not because the plot dictated it, as TPTB would have us believe. I just wish people were more professional about things like this. It's ridiculous. The job is the job. Whoever started it, whoever is the most to blame, whatever the hell happened, they should just suck it up and do their jobs!

Win!

Well, they don't show a flashback of what exactly happened, but, there's one scene in the finale which I think makes it very clear who the killer is.

I didn't know this. Can you point me to a place where I can read his comments? (Thanks!)

A lot of people from Europe have British accents. I teach English in an academy in Spain and all the programs here are British English. All the listening exercises have British accents too because the closest English speaking country is Britain. So, Kenneth having a British accent is not so weird.

It can happen, but I still think that one secret Targ is enough.

I also think Carter confessed to his sister after he heard that Aubrey had confessed. And with all the talk of people getting what they deserved, I guess the show was saying he deserved to die for killing Matt and almost destroying Gwen.

Regarding being sensible: 1) Cersei: she was sensible enough to go through the trouble of either sleeping with Robert after each time she got pregnant, or pretending to sleep with Robert after she got pregnant. She wasn't a complete idiot. The way it's being stated here, it's as if she had never slept with Robert and then tried to pass her children as his. She did this deception so well, in fact, that no one suspected a thing. Only Jon Arryn, and that's because he noticed that Robert's bastards all had dark hair. As Robert's foster dad he knew Mya, and he knew the legitimized bastard in Storm's End. How many people can say that? And even then Jon felt the need to do extra research, get the book and find even more bastards in KL. And after all that, he still didn't say anything. I guess he only realized he was right when he was dying. And it was his dying, under mysterious circumstances, that made Ned believe it sooner than Jon had. 2) Ned: he gave Cersei a chance because he was a decent, honorable man, and because, at the time he made that announcement to Cersei, he had more power than she did. Robert was still alive then. He would never have believed Cersei over Ned. Ned had already made it very clear that he didn't condone the murder of children when Robert wanted to kill Daenerys in Essos, and in the books he thinks that Robert would kill Cersei and the children, even if the latter ones had no blame in the matter. So, because Ned is honorable, and a decent man, he gave those children the opportunity to live. And he had no reason to fear Cersei then. Robert was alive and he was Hand of the King. In hindsight, he should have been more ruthless and have her arrested immediately, but hindsight is 20/20. 3) LF: off course LF didn't need an excuse to kill Lysa. She had served his purpose and he was done with her. But he did need an excuse for Sansa to support him when he killed Lysa. And he created the circumstances for that. Then all he had to do was remain close by until Lysa lost it, as he knew she would, and save Sansa from her crazy aunt. 4) Robb: was being a 15 year old kid. I'm not expecting him to be sensible. Even so, he had a slip, he let himself be seduced when he was on high from having won a battle, and then he did the only honorable thing he could do. As his father taught him. Lack of sense is not what kills the Starks, extreme honor does. ---------------------------------------- On the show, I don't know why we're taking Petyr at face value here. He lies. What's he going to say to Ramsey? "I know you're a deranged motherfucker, so, I'm gonna ask you to behave"? Right! I still maintain LF and Sansa had conversations about what course of action to take under different circumstances that we did not see. LF enticed Roose with the possibility of uniting the North and the Vale to take the IT; by accepting to marry Ramsey to Sansa, Roose is basically agreeing with LF's plan to eventually rise against the Lannisters. If Sansa is irreparably harmed, I doubt LF will keep his end of the deal, so Roose has a reason to protect Sansa, and if Ramsay has half a brain, so does he.

I tend to think that if Tywin thought there was even a tiny, tiny, minuscule chance that Tyron was not his, Tyron would have been toast as soon as Joanna kicked the bucket.

Again, that doesn't mean they didn't have another off screen conversation before LF left for KL, or that they didn't hatch a base plan on the way to WF, which they later modified with the Stannis revelation, or that they didn't go through the possible options if events X, Y or Z occurred. Since we can't possibly have seen all the conversations between LF and Sansa since they left the Vale, I don't think we can categorically deny they had some sort of plan, or at the very least a strategy.

I agree that burning alone would not do it, but I also think that Melissandre doing it would not be impactful/special enough. As I posted in the episode thread: The way the resurrections work in the books wouldn't make a Jon resurrection special enough to warrant him AA status. If Thoros can bring Beric back to life, why isn't Beric considered a possibility for AA? Or anybody else brought back to life by a fire priest / priestess? Given AA role and the importance attributed to him, particularly by the worshipers of the burning heart, I think Jon's resurrection needs to be much more spectacular, in order for the characters (and the readers and TV viewers) to grasp its significance. It can't just be another run of the mill fire priestess resurrection. _______________________ It just occurred to me that dragon glass might just do it. Ghost led Jon to the dragon glass, then Jon gave Sam the dagger with which Sam was able to slay a WW, and we've just got a reminder of all of that in the recent conversation between Stannis and Sam, with Stannis wondering why dragon glass would kill a WW and Sam saying that the Children of the Forest used it to hunt. Sam still has that dagger. What if he places it in Jon's funeral pyre? What if he also then blows the horn that Jon found with the dragon glass and gave to him? The magical elements of dragon glass have been established on the show and in the books. And the show included the discovery of the items in the same fashion it happened in the books. If this is so, then Ghost persistently led Jon to discover his own salvation. I kind of dig that.

I'm not so sure, what evidence does Doug have that it was Rachel who attacked him? If there are no witnesses or DNA, it would be his word against hers. Also I can see people believing he's making up those allegations because he wants to discredit her once she starts talking, or a lawyer arguing that it was self-defense, which I kind of think it was, which would clear her of those charges. I think she was a very real threat to Frank and Doug knew it. Not that I'm condoning her murder, just saying that the way the story was set-up on the show, Rachel had more leverage than some give her credit for in here.

All to my point. We got no information on the conspiracy among Roose, Walder Frey and Tywin Lannister until the Red Wedding happened, yet, they had been communicating and plotting against Robb Stark for a while. The surprise reveal is not a new thing on TV, and not a new thing on this show, either. I know that the show sometimes makes it seem like all these cities are a stone throw away from each other, but I think even the casual viewers know there's some distance between Moat Cailin and Winterfell, and we don't know what conversation LF and Sansa might have had on that journey. Even if it's only a day's ride on the show, that's a day worth of LF / Sansa interaction we didn't see. A lot could have been discussed then. It could all turn out as you and others think, I'm not saying it won't. I'm just throwing out the possibility that something else could be going on. It's worth considering, IMO Yes, a cause is necessary, I agree. I'm just not fond of Melissandre resurrecting him because the prophesy doesn't mention anything about a person being the catalyst. My favorite theory is that there will be a winter storm while they burn Jon's body (so that he's not turned into a wight) and that's when it happens. The way the resurrections work in the books wouldn't make a Jon resurrection special enough to warrant him AA status. If Thoros can bring Beric back to life, why isn't Beric considered a possibility for AA? Or anybody else brought back to life by a fire priest / priestess? Given AA role and the importance attributed to him, particularly by the worshipers of the burning heart, I think Jon's resurrection needs to be much more spectacular, in order for it the characters (and the readers and TV viewers) to grasp its significance. It can't just be another run of the mill fire priestess resurrection. And they missed three right below the red square, nestled in the arches of the wall!!!

I'm hoping they do something with him similar to what they did with Dany and the hatching of the dragons: he rises from the dead because he's meant to do that without anyone's help. I'm hoping that's the case in the books too and think there's some set-up for it. In her chapters Melissandre intuits that Jon is important, but she can't quite see why. It would be awesome if she sees Jon rise for himself, and then she'll realize that he's AA. Mel going off with Stannis on the show gives me hope that this is how it's going to happen in the books. Well, we might have been told part of a plan, but not the whole plan. It took us four seasons to see that it was Lysa, manipulated by LF, who killed Jon Arryn. We've also had many other plans on the show that were not revealed until after they were executed. In the books too. We are never told that Roose has a plan to kill Robb and take over the North, we are, in fact gently prodded to believing the Karstarks are the danger and then we're thoroughly blindsided by the events in the Red Wedding. For all we know, Sansa and LF made a more detailed plan, but we just haven't been told about it.

They haven't attacked in the books either, and they've had plenty of time there to do so. I think it's because they need the cold to be functional (I was going to say "live" but they're undead). This is why they keep saying "Winter is coming". The WW come with the cold. I think they are setting it up so that Sansa works with her hidden friends to undermine the Boltons from within. It'd be cool if this old "washerwoman" would do some killing of her own. No one would see her coming because how can such a fragile, little old lady be a threat? I was also remembering Bran's "fall" during that scene. It made me want to check in on him and see what he was up to with Bloodraven. Too bad he's not going to appear this season. I've been thinking that given the actor's growth spurt and monumental changes from the little boy we met in S1, the show might have taken him off-screen so that when we see him again half merged with a tree, the difference won't be so jarring.

I just don't want to make up my mind about this story until I see it. I think they are consolidating several WF characters into Sansa, not just Jeyne Poole. I think they will have her do some of the Manderly stuff, since it seems the Manderlys will not be making an appearance. Given the previews with Myranda and Ramsay saying something along the lines of "you know how I feel about people who disobey me", I'm thinking it's possible Sansa, like Margaery with Joffrey, will pretend to enjoy, and even encourage, Ramsay punishing Myranda in the most horrible way, while at the same time conspiring to weaken the Bolton's position from the inside. If it goes that way, I think it will make a good story. In any case, I'll just wait and see before I decide if I like the changes or not. I feel I can't make a decision on this based on spoilers that are incomplete. When I see it on screen, I'll judge. Not before.

No, it shows that the people who visit this particular forum didn't like this show so much. To infer that what happens in this corner of the internet reflects the views of the entire TV watching audience is a gross misunderstanding of statistics.

Nobody says it's understandable, but I think a lot is being made of Rachel's sexual orientation, which IMO had nothing to do with the reason she got killed. Doug would have killed anybody he perceived as an obstacle to his objectives. That's the characterization they were trying to go for, IMO. Man, woman, straight, gay, bisexual, transsexual, bear, queen or Martian, if Doug saw them as a threat that could only be extinguished by killing the person, he would kill them. I seriously doubt that television writers have an anti-gay agenda and that they sit around thinking of ways to kill all their non-straight characters. I personally don't keep tabs on the number of deaths by sexual orientation, but if it were a trend, I'd probably notice. Perhaps it's just a coincidence that a few gay/bisexual characters have been killed off in several shows, or perhaps it's just what naturally happens as a result of adding more diversity to our TV. Plenty of straight characters die on TV, and I don't see that as the writers having a bias against straight people. When it comes to this show, specifically, the main character is bisexual, so, I really don't think these particular bunch of writers is anti-gay or out to spread the message that it's ok to kill gay people. I think that's what some of us are trying to say to this argument.