FuriousStyles

Legally speaking the defense doesnt have to do anything. They can sit there the whole trial and not say a word. They dont have to prove the defendant's innocence beyond a reasonable doubt. The burden is on the prosecution to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. In this case, all Johnnie and Co. did was poke holes in the prosecution's case. I saw a lot of back and forth about the trustworthiness of the evidence collected, and I find it pretty troubling that some people would handwave so much of the key evidence that we know for *a fact* was contaminated, mislabeled or improperly handled, and convict someone. OJ did it. I dont doubt that for a second. But the prosecution has to PRESENT a case to PROVE he did it. I said it before, the prosecution's presentation of their case sucked from start to finish and they paid for it. Some of it, obviously wasnt their fault. Marcia and Co. have nothing to do with how evidence is collected, but they had a choice in putting a known racist cop on the stand, who eventually had to plead the 5th on whether he planted evidence. As a juror or just a human being, a racist cop pleads the 5th, Im not thinking "well hey from a legal perspective pleading the 5th is not an admission of guilt". Ok sure, legally speaking that's true, but considering there were already questions about the LAPD before this trial and then certainly during it, Furhman's testimony, if you could even call it that, was the nail in the coffin, all of which could have been avoided.

Any company that does substantial business in NYS is subject to the state's jurisdiction, regardless or where the company is physically located. Axe Capital could have been located in California and it wouldnt have mattered.I thought these last few episodes were pretty good. I was actually pretty entertained with Axe and Wendy's "sociopath" conversation. Whatever Axe is, he's definitely FUBAR. If thats the kind of thing he does to a friend, i cant wait to see what he has in store for Chuck, who to me is just as insufferable. Am i really supposed to be rooting for either of these assholes?

Absolutely. Unfortunately, at least here in NY, if you're charged with 1st degree murder your only option is a jury trial. No bench trial.I think the chickens came home to roost for the LAPD. Wasnt it like literally a year or 2 later that the LAPD was under fire for rampant police corruption. Dozens of convictions were overturned due to misconduct, including planting evidence and what not. The whole idea of the LAPD planting evidence wasnt a work of fiction Cochran cooked up. It was something very real. And in my opinion, the jury wouldnt have any way of knowing (beyond a reasonable doubt) that the LAPD hadnt done any funny business in OJ's case. Not with racist Furhman on the stand pleading the 5th to whether or not he planted evidence. Not with another detective taking home evidence and walking around with the defendant's blood. Not with the lead forensics guy sounding so inept with how he collected the samples and controlled the crime scene. All those things combined with the LAPD's history (business as usual as the poster upthread said) and I surely wouldnt have felt comfortable convicting and possibly sending someone to death row if i were on that jury.

I hope they let Steve Harvey present the award. ;)Finally got a chance to watch the finale. First off, I cant believe its been 10 weeks. This miniseries was fantastic from start to finish. Its a shame the basis of it stems from the murder of 2 people, but damn it was a great piece of art. I must commend Courtney Vance on his work as Johnnie Cochran. He did a great job throughout but I believe he saved his best for last. I have never watched Cochran's closing arguments (other than the "if it doesnt fit" snip) but if Cochran was half as animated and passionate as Vance was then yeah, the prosection didnt stand a chance (though according to many they never did, but whatever). Wasnt surprised Cochran received death threats. 20 years later, people are practically dancing on his grave glad that he died of cancer. I can only imagine the hatred at that time, when all he did was the job he was paid handsomely to do. Did they really play hot potato with the verdict forms for so long like they did? The wait for everyone not just OJ must have been agonizing. My God. Love love love the real life footage of the reactions from the public. And the split screen inside the courtroom. RK did genuinely look stunned. One of the biggest reasons I wanted to watch this was to see the behind the scenes stuff. How did the prosecution react after the glove stuff. The infighting between the Dream Team. In this episode, it was what happened after the verdict. Marcia broke my heart talking about how ashamed she was. Man what a tought tough thing to go through.

Mimi: I never thought I'd be in relationship with a woman. Me: Really? Because I sure did. I WISH I could have bet money on this because I just KNEW Mimi was going switch teams. I ALWAYS thought her and Ariane had something going on at one point or another. But yeah, it was only a matter of time. So either Kirk and Rasheeda are the shittiest friends in the world or they think Scrappy really is a shit father. With those 3, I really can't tell. Could be both options actually. I'm confused. There are 2 Scrappys on the show now? For the longest I was like who the fuck is this lady saying she is Scrap's mother. And who the fuck is Tiara? Sound like some old trifling man playing two females tired ass story AGAIN. Who is the Papoose of Atlanta? Where are the good guys. And I mean the real good guy, not Stevie J type of good guy.

Lol...where in my post did I say anything about what Marcia Clark should have said to the jury? My point in bringing up 'A Time to Kill' was to highlight that what swayed the jury in the movie was asking them to relate to the victim. Imagine the child being white...which would cause them to imagine that child being one of their own. That perhaps Ron and Nicole being white gave them a relatability factor is not far fetched IMO. The nation was damn near 80% white in 1994 and something like 10% black so yes if we're gonna talk about what capitavated the "entire" nation the more accurate motivation would come from what white people were thinking just based the numbers. I dont KNOW for a fact what the majority of whites watching this trial in 1994 were thinking. Frankly, I dont know what the majority of blacks were thinking either. Were there any polls taken at that time? I dont know. But to say race has absolutely nothing to do with this case is...I dont even know what word to use. Furthermore, how would Marcia Clark appealing to the jury's emotions around race any different than her plan to appeal to their emotions around gender? We know Marcia wanted women on the jury because she thought women would identify with Nicole (there goes that relatability thing again). So why is it perfectly fine to suggest a female jury can/should relate to a female victim, but its offensive to suggest that a white jury or a white audience can/did relate to a white victim? I just think, that the race of the victims DOES play a role (however large or small) as to why its such a huge deal 20 years later. Luckily we dont have many other cases to compare this to in terms of celebrity, wealth, race, etc.

To me, what ruins the crop more than the "few bad apples" is the FACT that the good guys remain silent when those bad apples fuck up. What do they call it? The Blue wall or the Blue shield or whatever? Case in point, the Walter Scott murder in South Carolina. That cop shot a black man in cold blood right in his back. Another police officer pretty much covered up for him and had it not been for a bystander recording the whole thing that cop would probably still be on the force despite IMO the physical evidence that would have indisputably refuted his account of events about "fearing for his life" (a phrase ALL cops use when justifying shooting someone), and how the guy reached for his gun, yadda yadda yadda. This is something blacks knew was going on for decades, but others couldnt believe it and probably still wouldnt had it not been for the video. There were plenty of former cops (and a former NYPD commissioner) on the news beating around the bush about that case. How there shouldnt be a rush to judgment. I guess the inference being everyone should ignore what they see with their eyes and not to use common sense. When bullshit like THAT happens, its really difficult NOT to have a negative feeling about cops. So unless and until the "good guys" start speaking up then they cant complain when they get treated with contempt like the bad guys.Cops are the ones with the guns, who based on most cases are allowed to act with impunity. They CHOOSE their professions. Black men and women can not choose to be another race. We cant choose not to be racially profiled, or targeted. You want to talk about pressure? Try being a black man in America. Someone uptread asked when will it end? It meaning the tit-for tat? The OJ jury acquitted him as revenge for Rodney King and other injustices suffered by blacks. One possible answer: when white people become just as outraged and destraught over a black person's murder. People want to say that OJ's celebrity is what caused this trial to be the sensational circus it was. But I just dont believe that if Nicole and Ron were black, people would be this emotional and invested 20 years later. Im reminded of the closing arguments from Matthew Macconaughey's character in 'A Time To Kill' where he basically convinces the jury to acquit by asking them to imagine the victim was white. Ron and Nicole, yes were human beings first and foremost and deserved justice just on the most fundamental levels of humanity, but no doubt, IMO, the fact that they were white is the reason their murders capitivated the nation (which in 1994 the population was like 80% white). Its also why children who look like Jon Benet or Elizabeth Smart get all the media attention when they go missing.

Loved the shade from the other castmembers while Amina and Tara were going back and forth. I think it was Brandi who mumbled under her breath that Amina should have just went on birth control. That Cardi B edit was funny. And yes Cardi...speak that truth!! I watched that segment like 3 times. Peter should have kept his trifling mouth shut. Cardi really hit his ass good. And I loved how Amina and Tara were stone quiet, letting Cardi slay him. I lol'ed when the camera panned to the audience and it was like a wave of head nods. Shots was being fired left and right between Mendecees mom and Samatha's mom, Yandy, and Samatha. I couldnt believe it. Mendeecees mom definitely dropped the biggest bomb....how Samatha was on some Set It Off shit, robbing banks. LMAO! I cant deal with these people. As a fellow AG, im a little embarrassed watching Samatha's mom. I would NEVER even think to put my hands on a woman. She needed to sit her ass down, because it seems like Samatha is just being spiteful. I cant fucking believe Rich. He the real ho...and Love&HipHop is his pimp. He really bout to bounce back to LA to fuck with Moniece....AGAIN?!?!!!

Which is why I thought my DVR was doing me a favor by no longer recording this crap. But I just read on the previous page there was no show for a week.Yo I died when Rah was talking about how fake Yandy is and was describing the situation with the girl Rah ended up stomping out at the club and she started quivering her lip. That shit was HILARIOUS! Loved Remy Ma's little words of wisdom...if you think [the results of the rap contest] was about favoritism....then make yourself the favorite. Tara is on some other level beyond denial. She done convinced herself Peter married Amina so she can get her papers? Really? Bitch please. She cant stand the FACT that she's the side chick...always has been (wasnt Peter with another woman when he met Tara?) and always will be. Its a shame she wasted so many years on him. The look on Yandy's face when Amina stood up and showed her baby bump was everything! And so was Rah. Her expressions slay me. And you know Tara was fuming. As much as I shit on this show, I got to admit its entertaining as fuck. Its like Jerry Springer and Maury except with the same people every episode. Next week looks lit!

Maybe the jury was fed up with being sequestered, maybe they wanted to give the LAPD and white people in general a giant middle finger, maybe they actually believed the defense theory of police misconduct, maybe maybe maybe. You know what is fact? That the prosecution fucked up. They did not present a good case. That doesnt mean they didnt *have* a good case, because they did. They had plenty of evidence to work with, but the presentation was HORRIBLE. And part of that has to do with the LAPD/Furhman and forensics who also fucked up. Any appearance of impropriety would have people giving the PD the side eye, much less the LAPD which has a notorious history of misconduct, including but not limited to racism and planting evidence. Then we have the detective taking home evidence in the trunk of his car. Really? Then there's Furhman. He spoke for himself, no need to rehash his mess. There's the 'glove dont fit' fiasco, and the dna stuff that lasted too long. The prosecution didnt introduce Simpson's behavior after the murders (suicide note; Bronco chase; money and disguises found in the Bronco, etc.). And did they ever address in court how ludicrous the defense theory actually was? Even if they didnt want to spend a lot of time on it while presenting their own evidence, everything Marcia said in the bar could have been said in court in like 3 minutes during closing arguments. Marcia went down to the bitter end thinking her evidence and her case would outshine whatever the defense was doing. I guess we can add ego/naivete to the list too. When a prosecution has someone on trial for murder for which the death penalty or life imprisonment is on the table, they had BETTER put on a damn good case. That is the burden they bare, and there's a reason they have to prove someone's guilt rather than the defendant having to prove his innocence.

Yes, I seriously didnt remember it. Over the weekend I was like DNA, RNA, A to T, T to A, C to G, G to C...WTF is all this? But yeah, I appreciated that Marcia wanted the forensic guy to dumb things down and just talk in simplier terms. But apparently the forensic part of the trial went on for quite a while. So you have a topic that hardly anyone is familiar with, isnt quite interesting and then stretch it out. I cant blame that jury for tuning out.Shit much like the shoes in the trunk, I probably would have tuned out right when they said they wrapped Nicole's body in a blanket from inside the house which could have had OJ's hair/dna on it beforehand. Its little moments like that, that really made the case IMO. As someone upthread said, there was plenty of blame to go around. The LAPD, forensics, Ito, and the prosecution obviously had their own misteps. This was by farrr a tightly put together case. It was like a mountain of evidence held up by a house of cards.

Well, I went to high school in the 2000s, took a bio class or two in college and I dont remember a lick about DNA, double helix and what not. As a matter of fact, I did one of those escape room game things over the weekend which included several clues that dealt with the ATCG. Let's just say I was stone quiet and let the other people figure it out. I could only imagine how foreign it would be to people back in the 90s and certainly the older folks. All of that stuff understandably (to me) flew over their heads.I cant believe that forensic guy walked over to the defense table and shook all the lawyers hands. I mean...where the fuck they do that at? You just got embarassed, your work and professionalism ripped to shreds and you may possibly have contributed to letting a murderer off and you think its appropriate to go shake hands with the defense? Never watched an episode of Seinfeld or Friends (though I do know who David Schwimmer, the chick who used to be married to Brad Pitt...her name is escaping me right now), etc. are. But yeah that little debate between the jurors of Seinfeld or Martin was spot on. Ok so I actually didnt have a problem with what Bailey said regarding the rape thing. To me, he was highlighting a fact/technicality that in 1988 (I think thats the year he mentioned), there was no such thing as a husband raping his wife legally speaking. I dont think he meant or was trying to insinuate that a husband cant rape his wife in the abstract, just that there were no laws on the books that even acknowledged it. I dont understand if Cochran didnt want that old white lady juror on, why was he was trying get all the other ones disqualified. Courtney Vance is killing it. I laughed during that scene with him, Bailey and Shapiro and putting OJ on hold. The look on his face at the end when he says "yeah, a rehearsal" was simply hilarious.

Nope...wasnt just you. The way the scene played out it appeared Marcia was upset over the no kiss/sex thing and responded by being angry over the glove suggestion. Even how the scene started with Darden saying "I have an idea....let's just go for it". Darden was talking about the gloves, but it looked like Marcia was disappointed and was probably hoping he was talking about their relationship.I never thought this was how it actually played out in real life, but I believe that little subtext or whatever you call it was definitely intentional for the show itself.

Someone explain how none of these things ever came up in court? Even the picture of OJ in the shoes. Why did it take the National Enquirer to find that picture? Wouldnt the DA's office in Los Angeles pull every freaking resource they have to turn over every rock and hunt down every single piece of evidence. The more and more of these types of tidbits come it, it really making the prosecution look inept and overmatched.

I dont know if Nicole might have been a pack rat, or perhaps it really was something that most people did back then (to keep track of expenses or whatever) but my mom has shown me receipts for random crap she bought back in the mid-80s (before I was born) so....I thought Johnnie's current wife was so full of shit. She's mad because Johnnie's dirty laundry got aired out and cited the fact that Johnnie wanted the limelight and now he's got it, when SHE was pushing him to take the case and basking in all the glory up to that joint. In my best Johnnie voice I yelled "Bitch, please" at the tv. Robert Kardashian must have been scared shitless going through that garment bag. And yes that scene with MJW was great. That "Good" from AC sent chills down my spine. LOVE Marcia's new hair style. How did she not start off with that? And I liked how easily she fit in with Darden's friends. I thought there would have been some awkwardness at least in the beginning, not necessarily because of race, but because she's a woman and it sounded like it was a "boys" weekend and they dont know each other and there's usually some polite awkwardness. But the sweatshirt was a nice icebreaker. This was definitely the days before TMZ and the like, because no way in hell 2 prosecutors in the biggest trial of forever would be out in public at a bar slinging 'em back, even in another city. I was more panicked from the scene in front of Marcia's hotel room than I was for the glove event in the courtroom. I kept yelling KISS HER, KISS HER!!! My heart sank when he said "good night". I was like you fucking idiot. And YES, Marcia looked sooo freaking disappointed. Now the show presented Darden being baited into the glove thing as if it happened the day of, but supposedly Johnnie told OJ to stop taking his medication so his hands would swell up like a month prior. So was that a 'just in case' the prosecution tried it thing, or did the defense intend on having OJ try on the glove themselves? AND how the hell did Darden think leather freaking gloves would fit AFTER OJ has a pair of latex gloves underneath. Those things are hard to get on regardless.

I think the whole n-word thing has been blown out of proportion. Now, im black and ive probably been desensitized to the word because im used to people using it. I personally and not many of my friends use it all expect when we're making fun of someone. But its not a term of endearment we use with each other. But anyway, I think when they (whoever 'they' are), decided to take the actual word out of Mark Twain's Huckleberry Fin I called bullshit. Thats just going too damn far. I wasnt really surprised to hear Bailey say it. Maybe a little suprised it was said on tv. But given the "motherfucker" we got a couple episodes ago, I guess FX has more leeway than other traditional networks.

Ah...that makes sense. Man OJ is one sick SOB.Regarding whether the jury would have acquitted had Johnnie not been on the team. ..I vote NOPE. I cant imagine the jury being as receptive to Shapiro (even though the whole race angle was his idea). And I dont see Shapiro delivering that type of defense with the same vigor. For one, Shapiro wanted to haggle for a plea deal early on, like before tbe trial even started right? Pleas was his specialty. I dont know what Bailey could have added. Cochran was definitely the glue that held the defense together. I think Marcia said she didnt want to address these things because she wasnt sure how the jury would view them. They could look at him as a sympathetic figure. And she was so confident in the physical evidence she thought it was unnecessary basically.

Did AC ever admit what the plan was? Go to Nicole's grave and then continue south to Mexico? Was he willing to go on the run (potentially ruining his own life) with OJ?

Didnt the CEO of Nascar (which only a short while ago outlawed the Confederate flag at stadiums) come out to support Trump too?Now I understand Pres. Obama and the democrats in general might not be everyone's cup of tea. But how anyone, let alone someone in a position of power and presumably having some semblance of intelligence could ever actually vote for or endorse Donald Trump for president should have their citizenship revoked and deported like all the illegal immigrants Trump wants to toss out. With that said, seriously speaking I dont think Ditka should have been demoted for his choice (however poor) in presidential candidate if thats the reason he was demoted. Whats the thinking behind that? Are people gonna tune out if they know one of the talking heads likes Trump?

Agreed. Which is why I had such a hard time believing OJ was all wishy washy scared about telling Shapiro he was off first chair and wanted Cochran to take lead. He was literally on trial for his own life, the stakes couldnt be higher, and he's worried about hurting feelings or looking like a "bad guy". I'm not saying thats not how I played out, but I just didnt find it believable. OJ asserting himself here and even telling Shapiro to blow him (that was the gist of what he said right?) was more to what I'd expect from a guy who by all accounts was never shy about expressing himself even in the most vulgar of ways.I always thought Marcia came in to the trial with that short haircut. I cant believe a paid hairdresser did that to her. Looking forward to seeing the other changes. Someone mentioned Marcia would be even more trashed if that trial happened today with social media and all, but I think she would have a LOT more supporters today. Just for the simple fact that she's a woman working in a male dominated world. I think a lot more women identify with that and more men are sympathetic to it. Plus, I think generally the trial would have turned out a lot differently.

Right. I'd love to know what the people who think this about the OJ jury, think about the Rodney King jury. Because how could anyone not call those white jurors racist idiots or having their own agenda when they actually had VIDEO evidence. They saw the crime with their own eyes and still acquitted.

I have a friend who went through the exact same thing. She took the jerk to court for child support (after he refused to give her a couple hundred a month only for child care expenses) and he turned around and sued for full custody sighting her work schedule as a reason (she's a doctor and was in the middle of her first few years of residency). He claimed his job allowed him to work from home most days out of the week, which was a lie. Some guys can be spiteful assholes.

*Raises hand sheepishly*. To be fair I only googled it to see if the story was actually true. I found an article written recently about this episode which confirmed a lot of what was shown. There was a link to the original picture that was printed but I didnt click on it. The article said the original picture had a black bar over the breasts (which is interesting since I saw Kim K recently posted her own naked picture with black bars over her breasts and crotch...but whatever). Anyway, Clark's picture was black barred, but obviously the damage was still done.

Holy shit. Emmy for Sarah Paulson please. The look she had when Ito said "Good morning Ms. Clark, I think" and then being on the verge of tears BEFORE the day even started was sickening to watch. What a fucking asshole. I couldnt imagine dealing with that bull, on top of trying such a high profile complicated case PLUS all the stuff she was dealing with at home. (Fact checking: did her ex-husband really go on tv and say she lied about needing to go home early? Matter of fact, was any of that stuff real?...in terms of Cochran's child care comment, Marcia showing up late one day because she was at a custody/child support hearing across the street, etc). And naked pictures? Seriously? The media was even more savage than they are now. I must have missed it but did the cop say why he took OJ's shoes with him home? Did he have something on the stove? Did he have to relieve the babysitter. I mean, I know it was 1994, but this was Los Angeles, not exactly some podunk town with 1000 population. This was a major city, and you mean to tell me in 1994 (not 1974 or even 1984) that idiot didnt know you dont throw evidence in the trunk of your car and take it home? Well of course he knew, since he had never done it before, only that one time. Listen I know OJ is guilty as fuck, and I'd like to think I would have had an open mind going in, but after hearing THAT, plus Fuhrman lying on the stand/pleading the 5th to various questions including whether he planted evidence, I think I would have voted NOT guilty too.

Totally agree, changing venues was the biggest mistake made. They should have been worried about securing a conviction. Period. Although I feel a tinge awkward thinking a white jury would automatically convict OJ. But anyway, they were more concerned about public backlash if that white jury did convict OJ and thought a conviction from a black jury would do more for the "optics". Talk about a plan backfiring. Yikes.