CarolMK

I think the Bates family is more realistic than the Duggars even if they follow the same Gothard religion and rituals. Too bad the public had to miss out on the past year of the weddings of 3 of their kids. Though Zach and Whitney are about to have their first child, so maybe we'll see something related to that. Another thing I like about the Bates, the older kids do seem to have real jobs...Erin has a degree now and teaches music, Michaela works as a nanny at least part time, Lawson runs a landscaping business and Nate, I think, wants to be a minister and has actually preached sermons. It doesn't seem to matter to the Bates that their daughters have real jobs, whereas it seems frowned upon by the Duggars. I don't recall the Bates ever referring to jurisdictions of their kids or the buddy system. Some of their kids even have bedrooms that only have 2 or 3 kids rather than a bootcamp dormitory.

I watched the season 12 finale yesterday as a rerun, which is the first time we actually meet Ben, Jim Bob and Michelle say at the very end of the episode that Jessa is in a courtship, it's almost like it's an afterthought to the episode. Anyway, during the flea market sale in which they raise $18,000 for the Arkansas children's hospital, Jessa is shown managing the money that's being earned from sales and also was shown helping to organzie the sale. It seems like she certainly has some business sense, and would actually be able to assist Ben if he were to go back to running his own windshield repair business. A shame she wasn't allowed to get an education outside of College Plus. She did seem very sure of herself then, but I think she has been portrayed to look flaky ever since she got involved with Ben. And of course we all see how he's being made to look very foolish by Jim Bob. I don't like what the show has done to the two of them. I do agree with whoever posted upthread that once Ben expressed interest in Jessa and passed Jim Bob's test, she was determined to marry him and get out of the house no matter what. It may be that Jim Bob giving Ben a job as a handyman is his way of keeping the two of them under his thumb. If so, that stinks for everyone involved.

Does anyone think that once their baby is born, that Jill and Derrick will provide a weekly picture and update on what Baby Dill is doing?It might be cute at first but weekly is over the top. Monthly would be a lot better. Also, I'll bet that they're now allowed to keep that house that they're in. Maybe Derrick has to make some kind of deal with Jim Bob, but I'm sure it won't be sold now that the first daughter is expecting her first child. How far away is their house from the Duggar compound? I also have to wonder if baby Dill is going to take time away from Josh and Anna's family after he/she arrives. The show will also focus on Jessa's wedding, of course all the little ones at home and the wonderful things Michelle is doing with them, how will TLC split their airtime amongst all of them?Perhaps another reason Josh and Anna don't have a fourth baby announcement as of yet, they are getting pushed aside for a couple of seasons while the Duggar girls are staying the main focus.

I liked seeing Jinger taking pictures in the previous episode. I wonder if she doesn't get married in the next couple of years, whether or not she'd be allowed to pursue a career in photography..even if she took pics at fundie weddings, or baby pics, she could definitely make a living if she was given the chance to do so. I do hope someday she gets that chance, and also when she does marry, that she'll find a guy who will move her into the city of her dreams and away from her controlling parents.

Fliptopbox, from what I remember, a dermatologist has to precribe it, due to the need to be certified to prescribe Accutane. The worst side effects for my kids were very dry lips and skin...both were on during the fall/winter. There's a whole list of warnings about this drug, but then again, it's a mile long for the birth control pill, too(which I used for probably close to 20 years with no problems). I saw how my kids, especially my youngest, gained a lot more self confidence as their skin cleared up..they were both very self conscious ot their acne, and we tried literally everything for several years before, including a prescription antibiotic drug with no luck. I'm sure Jessa would gain a lot of self confidence too if she were allowed to try it...but I'm certain due to the birth control issue, it would not be allowed. In case of a pregnancy, termination is recommended, it was in the literature given to us by the doctor. Is Josiah the one who also has a very bad case of acne? I can't remember if Joseph does, haven't seen him on the show in a long time.

I think poor Jessa's acne is worse than the other girls, although several of her brothers have it as well. My two boys suffered with it, but luckily both also responded to Accutane...a 5 month course of action cured it for my kids, who were 14 and 18 at the time. You need regular blood tests to meaure cholesterol, but now, 3 years later, both of them have normal cholesterol, no breakouts, and thankfully, no scarring..that was a real possibility with my younger son. Of course, one problem is that while on Accutane, females are required to be on the birth control pill because Accutane will cause birth defects to the fetus. And in Duggarland, we all know the birth control pill is against their religion.

Ugh. I really hope that after their marriage, Jessa and Ben move back to Hot Springs, rent a trailer to live in, and both of them go to work...Ben back to the insurance office and Jessa in a hair salon (or at least get enrolled in school for it). I can't imagine the two of them being married and living on Jim Bob's property and Ben continuing to work as a slave for his father in law. By the way, anyone know the ratings of the episodes lately? I wonder if the public will be able to stand another dozen years of courtships, wedding, and babies from the second Duggar generation.

I''ve been half wondering if maybe Jim Bob actually found Ben for Jessa, in a similar way that he found Derrick for Jill. I've always thought of Jessa as one who was somewhat rebellious, as much as it's possible to do so in that family (not being able to cook as a prime example to get out of doing it). I almost think that if some man had gotten the chance to get to know her sans Jim Bob, she would have sneaked out of the house in the middle of the night to run off with him, along the same lines as the scenerio of the Breaking Amish premise. Maybe she realized if she followed the dog and pony show, she too, like Josh and Anna and now also Jill and Derrick, she and Ben can make a lot of money by continuing to appear on the tv show, and once she's married, all the money earned for their appearances will belong to them, not to her parents. I don't believe Jim Bob ever saved any money from the show in trust for his kids, even the ones over 18. Controlling them financially is probably one of the best ways he has control over his adult children, it's not just about the religious cult and subsequent guilt anymore..somehow I don't think Jessa would feel as guilty as say, Jana, if she were suddenly to flee the compound.

RE: Michelle's undiagnosed mental illness, I'll wager a guess she has narcisstic personality disorder. Also, brainwashed by the Gothard cult at a very young and impressionable age, never to recover from it. The fact that she was referring to her unborn baby as "it" in the 14 Children and Pregnant Again was very telling (she said, when the baby is born, it's MY buddy until it's 6 months old and then it goes to whoever's turn it is to have a buddy...ugh). It doesn't help the way Jim Bob is always grabbing at her, kissing her, etc, it's borderline creepy to see someone acting like that past the teenage years.

For whatever reason, I don't think Jim Bob thinks that any of the Bates are good enough for his family. Something about the way the Duggars treat the Bates, it's almost as if they feel they're inferior to them. Michelle and Jim Bob have both done this to Kelly and Gil. Probably one reason is that the Bates offspring seem to be able to at least think for themselves somewhat, and the Duggars parents don't want anybody in their family that they don't have control over.

If John David is indeed courting, I think it would be great if he could tell his parents and TLC that they want to keep it private, including keeping his wedding off-camera. If indeed he marries a fundie girl just like him, her parents may want this to be the case anyway. It would be amusing to see an announcement made to People magazine in which "John David Duggar marries!" and nothing is mentioned on their show at all until after the fact. Just because Jim Bob and Michelle are huge famewhores, it doesn't mean that all of their children are going to be too, especially as they get older. Maybe a few of them realize that once you've given away your privacy, you can never get it back.

I agree that Jessa can probably get Ben to come around to her way of thinking after they're married. He's so in love with her, and now indebted to her dad for both work and a place to live, I just don't see him being this "authority figure" over her. In the meantime, I also see her sneaking off to the doctor after the wedding for quarlterly Depo-Provera shots. Nobody would have to know why they're not being "blessed" with little blessings righit after the wedding. She should go to either beauty school or something else that she's interested in, too..I hate the thought of her staying on the compound and continuing to teach her younger siblings while Michelle does God knows what (answer fan mail?) all day long.

There was a show on Oprah I saw a preview for, about a woman who is a life counselor (Ivanla) talking to a man who has 34 kids by 17 different woman, ranging in age from 26 down to 3 years old. One thing she had him do was hold as many dolls as he could, representing the kids..he could only hold 14 of them, and then wanted to put them down. She told him that in real life, we can't put our kids down whenever we want to, we have to take care of their needs. Reminded me so much of the Duggars. She even asked him why he didn't get a vasectomy. But I guess with the Duggars, since they have their own built-in servants, they don't consider it to be a problem at all .

I actually don't blame Josh one bit for being forced to spend his teenage years building that huge house when clearly Jim Bob had no idea what he was doing. I think even today if might not be finished if TLC hadn't stepped in...Jim Bob was clearly over his head with that project. And using 16 year old Joshua and 14 year old John David as his main helpers for the construction as well as many of the younger kids? Geez, with the girls functioning as unpaid maids and nannies most of their lives, and the boys as unpaid unskilled laborers, no wonder Jim Bob was rich even before the show got started. But when you're employing your own family in a family business, I guess child labor laws clearly don't apply. I wonder though, if this is one reason Joshua was in such a hurry to get married and away from home at such a young age.

Jonathan and Jennifer Hartano are friends of the Duggar family, John David and Jana met them back in 2010 on their mission trip to Indonesia. They seem to visit the Duggars on a regular basis.

Ugh, the thought of Ben working directly for Jim Bob and living in the warehouse room literally makes me sick. Why in the world Jim Bob wants Ben under his thumb is beyond me. Ben does have an insurance license, doesn't he? Maybe Jessa should get hers as well and the two of them could at least work selling insurance, just like Jim Bob and Michelle did years ago. It's pretty obvious Jessa isn't much into being a housewife..cooking isn't that interesting to her, and she seems over taking care of her siblings. Why not have her work for a while, it was okay for MIchelle but not for any of their daughters?

Did we recently see Jennifer Hartano (sp) on camera? I read in another thread that she just graduated from Pensacola Christian college in Florida. Anybody think that there's a chance that the Duggars would approve of her as a wife for John David? Personally I think it would be awesome to see one of their kids marry somebody of a different background..but don't the Hartano's pretty much have the same beliefs as the Duggars?

I think most of the viewers, especially those of us on this board, would respect Josh and Anna's decision to limit the size of their family. If they just had one or two more children and decided their family was complete, would their parents look down upon them for not having as many blessings as the Lord gave them? It appears that Jana and Joy have been visiting Josh and Anna lately, this makes me think that Anna is probably somewhat overwhelmed with 3 children under 5 years old and really appreciates the help she gets from her sister in laws. I do think I remember seeing on an episode last season, that Anna stated, they weren't trying or not trying to have another baby. I guess that's the closest to natural family planning that they're going to admit to.

I hope by the time that Jessa and Ben's wedding is filmed, Jim Bob and Michele will be over that stupid "saving our first kiss for our wedding day crap". Because somehow, I just don't think these two are going to wait for the day itself to make out. Wasn't one of their "chaperones" one of her little brothers, who's maybe 10 years old? Easy enough to sneak in a kiss when the kid isn't paying attention. And why make such a frigging big deal about it in the first place? What if one of their other kids, especially the boys, decide that they aren't going to wait? What announcement will they make then at the alter?

I wonder if Jim Bob is holding out for a senator's son, or someone like that, to ask for Jana's hand. After all, his buddy Gil Bates had one of his daughter's marry a guy like that, and the way they parade around and campaign every couple of years, I wouldn't be surprised if that's what he's looking for. At least one of his daughters has to marry a guy who's either got political connections or is rich/famous in some other way.

Is anyone thinking that it's time for Josh and Anna to annnounce baby #4 now? The way this family has to constantly upstage each other, it should be coming any day now. Maybe they'll wait until Jessa and Ben's wedding to make that announcement.

Regarding the Bates liking the Duggars, I have wondered about this myself. It seems that at least at first, that TLC was looking for another large family to appear on the show who were "best friends with the Duggars" and the Bates took on that role...maybe for the money if not so much for the fame. The very first time the Bates came to stay with the Duggars was a total setup for the show, with both families playing paintball and going sky diving. I think one of the cameramen asked Zach Bates directly if he was interested in any of the Duggars girls, to which he replied that the families hadn't seen in each other in 8 or 9 years until that time.

I was just thinking , now that Josh and Anna have 3 kids, and likely will have a dozen before they're done, and now Jill and Derrick expecting their first child so soon.....Jim Bob and Michelle will likely have at least 100 grandchildren in the next 20 years or so. Maybe even closer to 200, if each of their girls marries young and has at least 6-8 kids since none of them will practice birth control. This boggles my mind. And wow, this belief system of theirs certainly has firmly gripped their kids.

Since I'm not sure of the dates, can someone fill me in as to when Erin and her sister Alyssa (?) got married? I remember Zachary and his wife Whitney got married right before Christmas, but wasn't Erin married before him? And as far as we know, neither of the Bates girls are expecting either, are they? Lastly, how old are Erin and Alyssa now? I seem to remember that people thought Alyssa was young to be married, she was either 18 or 19.

As hard as it might be for Jana to continue to live at home, and being the oldest unmarried daughter, I'm thinking that even if she stays home and doesn't marry until 30 or so (I doubt very much that Jim Bob and Michelle would want her home forever, they probably view an unmarried daugher as a failure )...by the next 4-5 years her life at home will become easier overall. The little girls won't be so little anymore, Josie, Jordyn and Jennifer will be 9, 10 and 12 years old, old enough to help with laundry, cooking and cleaning. Some of the older boys will likely be married and out of the house as well. And if she does marry at 30, it's also likely she won't have a dozen children, either. Hopefully she meets a man who lives far away and she can move with him and have her own life away from her parents.