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I wonder about this too. And, you know Ted is going to be a super involved father because a.) he's the only parent they've got and b.) he's Ted. Coming back to this show, it was great to see Future Robin -- wildly successful, confident (yet still geeking out on being recognized), and seemingly in a very good place in life. Cobie is such a beautiful woman. I really would have liked to have seen a conversation between Future Robin and Charlie since it seems that he will be going down the same path as her. Like she was back in the day, he too is determined to never be a parent even if it means ending a very good thing with the person he loves. What advice would she give him, since it seems that all these years later in 2022 she's still kind of pining for Ted -- a happily married Ted living his dream life with his wife and kids, at that.

Here is a good article to check out for those who enjoy podcasts. It recommends several podcasts that can serve as a primer for this show. I've listened to a couple of the recommendations already, and topics that this show has touched upon including Ward McAllister and the creation of the 400; the opening of the Metropolitan Opera House; and The Mrs. Astor herself have all been covered. I've enjoyed the podcasts I've listened to so far.

I guess I'm in the minority, but I don't mind Marian. There is an openness to her that I enjoy, and I suppose she needs to be curious/friendly/naive if she is the audience's tour guide through the world of this show. I also like that she got called out on her prejudices and rude behavior right away and without any sugarcoating. This makes her immediately more likable to me than Fellowes' beloved heroine of Downton Abbey, Lady Mary -- and the Russells! How interesting that Agnes wants Marian to marry into Mrs. Astor's 400. I wonder if in this show the Van Rhijns are on that list. Does this mean that Marian and Gladys are (supposed to be)in competition for the same eligible young men... I wish Agnes had told Ada the truth about what happened with Cornelius Eckhardt III -- both why their father rejected him in their youth and why Agnes sent him away last episode. Ada is supposed to be a sweet character, I get that. But sometimes she seems like a child, which is frustrating.

Why not? I doubt there was much honor or loyalty among robber barons. In the late 1860s, George Russell's real-life inspiration, Jay Gould, got into a conflict with Cornelius Vanderbilt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erie_War. I recently visited one of the Goulds' weekend homes in Tarrytown, NY. The tour guide made a point of telling us how much Gould resented Vanderbilt even though he had been victorious against Vanderbilt.

I won't be thrilled with this ending, but I can totally see it happening given how utterly defeated and lost Jon seemed by the end of this episode. He seemed like a man who realized that everything he knew to be true about the world was in fact a lie. I can totally understand that his reaction, his salvation, would be to leave it all behind and choose a life of peace and quiet among people (and Ghost) who have a much more straight-forward approach to life.

I thought that for the first time in the series, she physically resembled her Targaryen family members that we've seen, specifically her father and Viserys, with her flowing pale blond locks and long, gaunt face. It was quite a trick making round-faced Emilia look long in the face!

How did his actions say otherwise? In story, I think that Jon's inability to move past their familial connection and, moreso, Dany's inability to see beyond his superior claim doomed them as a romantic couple. I wondered upthread if Dany would have reacted favorably if Jon had suggested that they run away together after defeating the Night King, planting her idea of living by the waterfalls forever into reality. Now, I don't for a second believe she would have seriously entertained the suggestion, but I do think it would have been their best chance at happiness. Earlier I was thinking about the three men that Dany got involved with in the series. At the end of last season, Jon seemed like the best of them both as an individual and as a partner for Dany. But now, I think she should have let Show Daario stick around. He adored her, she enjoyed his company and found his advice worth listening to, he had no family or claims on her power that would serve as an impediment to their romance, and he would have been perfectly fine with the choices she made this season. And I think he had a pretty good read on her character: "you're a conquerer not a ruler" and "You will get that Throne you want so badly. I just hope it brings you happiness."

I said this in Dany's Character thread a few days ago, but I figure I'll post here as well. In the Inside the Episode segment for the episode in which Dany buys & frees the Unsullied, showrunner Dan Weiss describes her actions towards the despicable Master Kraznys "who had done nothing to her personally" as cruel. From his point of view & therefore the show's point of view, Dany's actions are in contrast to those that you cited of Sansa, Arya and Tyrion. In those three instances I suspect the show would argue that the people Sansa, Arya and Tyrion killed were those who had directly harmed them. So I doubt they'll get the Monster edit next episode. Also, I don't think that the episode or the showrunners portrayed Dany as a monster this episode. Obviously your mileage varies. My overwhelming emotion surrounding her was incredible sadness. I couldn't believe she was burning the town and its people & found it horrific, but seeing her crying atop Drogon before she did it, she came across as broken rather than evil. Evil is a word I associate with Cersei or Ramsey. Similarly to a degree, Arya was at a life-altering crossroad this episode too, and she chose more wisely than Dany. Though to be fair, I think Arya had a lot more in her past & her present than Dany ever did to help her make the better choice.

He told her that he loved her, which should be the most powerful words he can say to reassure her that she is not alone in the world. But I take your point, and I wonder why neither of them, especially Dany, ever brought up and took comfort in the fact that they are family. It should be all the more important to Dany, I would think, as she has been mourning the loss of family since Drogo and Rhaego died. I don't think Jon ever felt quite as alone in the world as Dany did almost her entire life.

Didn't Plato write about tyrants that when they first appear they are protectors? One is not mutually exclusive of the other in literature, IMO. (For the record I don't think that Dany was a tyrant in waiting all this time, at least in her mind.)

This is why I am so annoyed that no one in his life who cares about him was happy for him (that we were shown)on a personal level at the revelation! Jon finally knows that he is the trueborn son of highborn parents who loved each other and him. Bran is a lost cause unfortunately, but why aren't Sam, his sisters, and Dany taking a moment to celebrate that Jon has gotten something that he longed for his whole life -- or at least a close approximation of it? (I'm assuming that he shared this longing with Dany, his true love, on their boatride up to White Harbor.)

That's what she had when she first landed in Westeros, and Dany didn't deploy them against Cersei as she could have. Because Dany is, as Jon noted in their first meeting, "better than Cersei." Thinking about it now, she's better than her much-lauded ancestor, Aegon First of His Name, IMO. Dany has been threatening to burn cities to the ground since S2, IIRC. But she hasn't acted on that impulse yet. I think it's because unlike Cersei she cares about human life and wants to be loved by her people while wanting to fulfill what she believes is her destiny and be Queen. She's one of GRRM's main characters; I can't imagine that her story will be simple and she'll be spared an internal struggle & living with the consequences of that struggle. Or, that her story will be reduced to "strong woman brought down by loving a weak man" as has been suggested by others. But, we shall see! By precarious situation, I was referring specifically to that fact that Jon, unlike Cersei, is (a) a true born Targaryen and (b)someone with a better claim to the Iron Throne than Dany.

While I agree that Dany has lost a lot in coming to save the North, I think that she would be in a more precarious position had she rejected Jon's plea outright and left the North to its own fate. Assuming that the North defeats the Dead and Bran lives, Jon's true identity would have been revealed, and the current roadblocks that prevent him from pursuing his birthright, as it were, would not exist. In this alternate scenario, he wouldn't have sworn fealty to Dany or fallen in love with her. The current situation she finds herself in is a complicated one, and outside factors have contributed to her troubles. But, as GRRM has stated many times, he's most interested in writing about the human heart in conflict with itself. So, I think that however Dany's story ends, it will be rooted in the decisions she's made about her own internal conflict. (I actually have come to believe in the last few days that Stannis' story acts in the overall narrative as a cautionary tale for both Dany and Jon.)

Reading the books, I've wondered just how much she really wants a simple life. Isn't there a passage in the first book that is Dany riding with her khalasar and thinking about how happy she is to be loved by Drogo and to be carrying their son. She thinks to herself that she should be perfectly content with her life and future going on just like this, but a part of her knows that she will never be truly happy until her family reclaims the Iron Throne. Am I imaging that whole passage? It's a passage that I thought of when she told Jon that they could stay by the waterfall for a thousand years, just the two of them. What if Jon had said "yes, let's run away together after defeating the Night King." Would she have been on board with that?

I wish I had seen it along with the rest of you! I figured Dany wouldn't live past the end of the series, but I never thought it might be because of her own character flaws. I saw her as a Martyr figure not a Tragic Hero...

In the run up to S8, this was one of the episodes I re-watched. After, I watched the Inside the Episode segment and was stunned when Dan Weiss spoke of this her burning Kraznys not as a Hell Yeah moment but as one in which Dany displayed a troubling aspect of her personality. He talked about how Dany is capable of taking revenge on people who have done nothing to her. "As her empathy expands so does her cruelty," is how he put it IIRC. I don't know if I should be impressed that the show kind of duped us into believing that Dany was GRRM's take on Joan of Arc or if I should be annoyed that it did a terrible job of making us understand that there was a duality in her personality that was at odds with itself.

I agree. It's not a coincidence that Cersei in this ep was shown ordering that her castle gates remain open for more people to enter as Sansa was shown doing the same in Winterfell in episode 2. The difference in intent is what makes Sansa Cersei's foil rather than her protege, IMO.

This was a Yikes moment for me. I couldn't believe that she was talking to him the way she spoke to Viserys when he threatened her or Jorah when he betrayed her. Huge red flag that this relationship is not in Jon's best interest: asking him to lie to his family about his true identity so that it doesn't throw a spanner in her lifelong plans. Of course, Jon is so in love that he brushes it off and goes the extra mile to appease her in the Last War strategy session by sharply shutting Sansa down. Not how I expected this cosmic love story (isn't that how a GoT director described it?) to unfold, at all.

There’s so much about this show that I enjoy. But I really wish that I could detect even a whiff of romantic chemistry between Jane and Rafael. I so want to be on board with the couple that the show clearly wants us to root for. Whatever Jane and Michael had, I bought it completely. Frankly, I cried when Jane and Jason said goodbye to one another (even though I didn’t care about Jason at all) because the actors really sold it & have such great chemistry together. It’s never a good thing, IMO, when a show has to sully one relationship in order to make another shine. And that’s the only reason I can think of for why the show brought Michael back.

While Tywin might very well be smarter than Sansa, he's highly overrated IMO. There's a podcast that I listen to and the hosts love to say of Tywin, "Tywin won because he cheated!" I can't find the lie in that statement. Also, he went about securing his legacy, his family name, "the only thing that matters" in the most foolish way possible. The story where we are now has one of his children putting a hit out on the other two who have turned their backs on her. Contrast that with "honorable fool" Ned Stark whose remaining children & "children" reunited & were willing to die to save his home, his homeland and each other. There are a lot of reasons why I look askance at Sansa and Tyrion as an endgame couple, but one of them is because I can't bear the thought of Tywin's line continuing through a Stark. When Sam writes ASOIAF, I want him to give Tywin the loser's edit.

I've always been a fan of Grey Worm and admired what a fearless warrior and devoted member of Team Dany he is. But that moment when he ordered the Unsullied to protect the retreat and stood his ground -- I was so damn proud of a fictional character! Missandei is a lucky lady for sure.

I could very well have imagined the whole thing; sensory overload is right! I take your point regarding Sansa. I wish she had done more, too, but I can't figure out what that could have been given her nonexistent martial skill set. Oh, I agree that Theon, Dany and Melisandre and a whole host of others were tenacious. I just gave Arya and Lyanna M as examples. This made me laugh! Never gonna happen, but I would so love it if it did.

Yeah, that was an interesting one. And I was surprised that he actually left Sam to his fate, whatever that might be. But, thinking about it some, it seems Jon was fairly single-minded in the battle. Protect Bran. Yes, he went off the plan after Dany entered the fray, but even then, he went after the Night King, leaving Dany and Drogon on their own, with her tacit approval.

Didn't she and Tyrion run out to meet Death after she pulled out her dragon glass knife, and he kissed her hand (goodbye)? Like the poster upthread, I, too, thought of Butch and Sundance in that moment. Poor Sam keeps getting dragged on nearly every thread for being afraid. Sandor was afraid. Theon was afraid at the end. I'm guessing that all of our beloved characters were afraid at some point during the battle. But, none of them pulled a Janos Slynt at the Battle of Castle Black. I keep thinking of what Robb told Talisa,"I asked [my father] how a man can be brave if he is afraid. He told me that's the only time a man can be brave." Not everyone can have the tenacity and courage of Arya or Lyanna Mormont, but I wouldn't say that they sucked either. JMO.

I still can't understand why they brought him back unless it's to have Jane choose Rafael over Michael while the latter is alive. Is that why Michael was brought back? If so, that's some poor storytelling...