RandomX

And the denim mermaid skirt!

I’m probably mistaken. If I find a reference, I’ll post it.

And what’s the point when she’s no longer in the running for MOTY awards? It’s always been performative.

Someone please post anything JillR shares about SHP. She’s such a narcissist that she won’t be able to resist. She is nails-on-a-chalkboard irritating and a danger to civilized society … but I’m down for a tantrum.

I have’t read Jinger’s book — had it reserved (hard copy at the time) through my library but relocated and haven’t yet had the chance to establish a new local library. Does she discuss how her parental practices do/will differ from JB&Ms? I know she has indicated her children will attend school, but I’m not sure whether she discusses that in any detail in her book. Thanks.

I agree that Derick would approve. I also think he would have been content for some time with God-bothering missionary work if 1) the TLC/JB gravy train had funded it and 2) his growing family had adapted to it (clearly Jill did not). interesting looking back on how lip service was paid to Josh Duggar going to law school. The arrogance of the Family Research Council arc is still breathtaking. Were there ever any show references to JimBob having a home (or even work) office?

Well played by Jinger. She’s become the family diplomat.

Some of my optimism for progress was pinned to the Dillard boys attending school. I guess now that hope has to rest on the Derick’s investment in seeing his children carry on his family’s Pistol Pete legacy. A bit less inspiring. If Jill had an actual K-12 education instead of serving as an around-the-clock mother to her siblings, and parents who cared about their children launching snd succeeding in this world, she could have been a medical or health professional and lived her original dream of midwifing or adjacent care. She had the work ethic (a school would have helped with “Duggar time”), somehow retained enough curiosity to pursue midwifing as she could while still living in the TTH, and she’s bright enough to have taken on courses if she could outgrow the Duggar attitudes. I wonder if that’s ever even occurred to her. I wonder if she knows Abby is using her nursing license and that sparks any thoughts. I don’t discount the SM work — though she and most of her siblings would benefit from curating better content — or the book. SM is a job in and of itself, but it can also be fickle; it didn’t see them through the post-TLC/JB falling out; and they need to recognize that it requires an investment of time that she/they haven’t demonstrated they can make. The book: that depends. The “JB betrayed our trust” stories will sell this book, but I’m not sure about future books unless she (more than they) can separate meaningfully from beliefs in which she was raised.

To add to this, Jill posted yesterday in an Instagram reply that she loves her parents. I don’t doubt that.

It’s another baby cage. 🙁

I oddly started reading about the Duggars on snark websites without watching any of the specials or episodes. The only episodes I’ve seen to date were Jill’s wedding and (IIRC) some lead-in episodes of her courting experience, and that was due to me recovering from an outpatient surgery and reading that those epis were airing. Basically all I know is what I’ve read here and elsewhere — yet there are so many IBLP Studies PhDs (if SOTDRT can grant its own degrees, so can I) here that I feel well-steeped in the Duggar and affiliated family cult history. I share your feelings of waning sympathy as the children become adults and perpetuate their hateful beliefs and horrible child-rearing practices. I came into SHP with the view that Derick is a bitter, hateful person and a subvertly manipulative husband. And then … SHP actually has shifted my perspective. Derick did not come off as smug to me. He spoke only in support of her and when she was struggling. She interrupted him at least once and he immediately shut up and let her speak (I understand this has also happened on their youtube videos, which I haven’t seen). In what I found to be an effective way of “showing and not telling,” Derick and Jill’s interactions and body language were miles away from the clips of other cult adjacent couples: JB & Michelle and the Holts (even with Bobye’s side eyes). There were no adoring submissive gazes. The eye contact and handholding read to me as supportive vs approval-seeking or controlling. Maybe it was effective stagemanship or maybe they received hugely sympathetic cuts and direction that no one else received. I doubt that — only the institutions (I count JB as an institution) seem to avail themselves with pro help, though Derick’s law school and (albeit brief) legal experience likely gave him some insights into effectively presenting oneself and one’s narrative. Now I’m considering Derick to still be bitter, likely still hateful, but now a healthier partner for Jill. I’m interested to see whether my perception shifts again when their book comes out since he is listed as a co-author. I wish Jill and other cult survivors strength in recovering. She and I would never be BFFs, but I empathize with her situation. I hope she and other survivors will reach a recovery stage where they can experience compassion for the burdens that others carry, even if those burdens differ from their own.

Yes (IMO), but with the focus shifting to the damage done by IBLP and similar groups. For instance: the documentary will delve into a topic like immediate obeyance, explain “blanket training” and how that dovetails into obeyance and teaching submission, then show clips of Michelle talking about / doing blanket training. They take this approach to tease out several issues and also use non-Duggar examples to illustrate. That said, the Duggars ARE the most familiar to the general public; there’s a lot of Duggar footage available; and for a few individual non-Duggar accounts of abusive past behavior by IBLP and affiliated individuals — most of which happened in at least semi-private circumstances — individual interviews are effectively used because there’s no B-Roll available for obvious reasons. I will one day celebrate a vicious, scathing and accurate take-down of JB and Michelle. This had a broader focus and while I personally root for JB&M to reap what they’ve sown while still walking this earth, I also believe the SHP is more effective by being centered on the damage done to children and young people caught up in the IBLP cult.

I agree with your bet! I don’t know that they have the pull to do a pre-screened media interview unless it’s self-generated. Their star has dimmed quite a bit (Thank Goddess!).

Yes, and I don’t mind any of the daughters using the Duggar name in whatever form they choose. The show made them (mildly) famous/notorious with the benefits flowing to their parents. They pre-earned as children whatever social capital the name / show still carries.

I don’t follow Jill on SM and only see what’s posted here, so may not have the full context. That said: I’m glad when I see her kids presented as individuals and not always in general chaotic ensemble mode. I hope they get back to school next semester I held out hope that they were Quiet Schooling but that has faded.

I enjoyed it and wished for more episodes, but am content they wrapped it when they did. They sent Parker Posey’s Dr. Smith through a good redemptive arc, but I still just could not forgive her murdering and poisoning her way through the first season. I was under the impression that she was going to murder IV guy (who I *think* was the Resolute security officer that she poisoned with the tentacle journal page?) before Robot intervened. Later, Dr. Smith was all “I was going to do something you can’t come back from!” and I was wondering if they were hoping we had all forgotten that she airlocked the guard in Season One. I groaned that they supposedly trashed all their RTGs upon setting up a hydro and renewable energy system because no colony leaders should be so stupid. In robot thoughts: Individualism is great but I was curious about any sense of — or desire to build — a robot sense of community. Could they not bond with each other? It minorly bugged me that Robot never got a name other than “Robot” when Scarecrow, SAR and Sally (and likely countless others) were readily named and/or acronymed. I hope he was at least Robot Robinson! Evil Me laughed when Penny explained that Sally left the planet at the first available opportunity.

Maureen, Stuck in her seat, still manages to throw shade at her injured 19-year-old genius daughter for not knowing how to hand-purge a pressurized fuel line. In flashbacks, Maureen revisits her depressing visit home with infant Judy in tow. It sure seemed like choosing to drop out of the astronaut program to have Judy led Maureen to very much feel Stuck on Earth, regardless of what she says in the present.

To me, “ordeal” seems to refer specifically to the court proceedings and still centers everything around Josh’s experience. Centering their parental actions and concern on the abuser rather than the victims helped create this ordeal, IMO.

I respect this viewpoint and admit that I cannot unsee the interpretive dance-based gospel outreach from several years ago — so I feel your pain! (Plus the joking about running over a cat with his sled) I’ve been contemplating whether this an outlier example of estrangement initially created by the more petty concerns that you raise that ended up, by loosening the emotional and spiritual hold of the cult, propelling Derek and Jill to a place where true growth could occur. Change is difficult, messy, and often not linear. But when I track my own memories of the examples you cite and where the couple is now, I think I’ve seen some true growth, or at least, a growing self-awareness that was previously absent. I also thought the reference to the trial being akin to a funeral was starkly honest and very sad. Of course one thinks of the loss of the relationships with her brother and her family, and I also can’t help but think Jill is also mourning the death of the childhood she thought she had — and what a difficult, emotionally fraught process that must be. They still have so many upcoming challenges (passing the bar, employment, Jill growing into her own skin as a person beyond mother and wife, and working through this highly public Duggar fall from grace). They may never live lives that match my own personal values — but I credit them for hopefully providing their children space to develop as individuals vs cult members. I am rooting for them!

Is there any time estimate as to when Jill may be called to the stand?

Sorry, broken quote — How would Serena have a custody claim for Nichole? There is plenty of in-show evidence about Serena believing she has a custody claim and that motivating her to turn against Fred. Tuello convinced her that he would arrange for access to Nichole (at the very least) in exchange for her luring Fred over the border and into US/Canadian custody. She tells Fred following her arrest she needed to turn on him to see “her” baby again. We’ve seen several scenes of her having visitation with Nichole over the objections of Luke and Moira — including the scene in which she’s arrested due to Fred’s counter accusations of Serena coercing / facilitating June’s rape by Nick (coercion) and by Fred (to hasten labor). The claim would clearly be under Gilead law and the circumstances of Nichole’s conception, birth and abduction by the Waterfords would preclude Serena pursuing a custody claim under Canadian or US laws. That said, Tuello seems to have had the latitude to dangle Baby Nichole as a carrot before Serena. In the show world, Nichole’s “kidnapping” was shown to be used to stir up political unrest against Canada, and the threat of a Gilead attack was insinuated before the Angel Flight happened. The DC Commander (Christopher Meloni) told Fred that the agitation stirred up over the “kidnapping” of Baby Nichole was more useful than the value of Baby Nichole herself, and Serena’s suspicion that Fred and other commanders weren’t seriously pursuing Baby Nichole’s return was insinuated to be Serena’s turning point in her decision to cooperate with Tuello. The show strongly pinned Serena’s defection to her desire for Baby Nichole, about whom Serena, now that she’s pregnant, hasn’t been shown to give a hoot. I find it interesting not so much from a legalistic perspective but because It supports Serena’s sociopathic tendencies — she wants to be Nichole’s mother until a better baby comes along (and one whom wouldn’t be forced into a problematic subservient role in the Gilead she helped to create). The show has put forth varying perspectives of what it means to be a mother by nature (biology) and nurture — Moira willingly giving her baby up for adoption pre-Gilead; Gilead’s forced abduction / adoption of children through sexual slavery and by declaring mothers as unfit under various religious pretenses (lesbianism, divorce, occupation); June giving Baby Nichole to Emily in a desperate attempt to secure freedom for Nichole (and Serena agreeing to surrender Nichole at the time with the same motivation) (and Emily accepting that responsibility); Luke and Moira raising Nichole in a loving household in June’s absence with neither having a bio connection; June repeatedly staying in Gilead to rescue Hannah; June’s suggested maternal bond with Mrs. Keyes; the entire Janine-and-Baby-Angela saga; success in the Gilead male hierarchy being accompanied (and perhaps advanced) by successful pregnancies of wives or handmaids; the conspicuous parental “consumption” of children by the highest ranking commanders (following DC Commander’s disappearance, his wife laments that she’ll lose all of their children, since their custody is apparently tied to his rank); June’s complicated relationship with her own mother; and on-and-on. All of this played out in a scenario of rapidly declining childbirth and increasing infertility. So when Serena suddenly forgets about Baby Nichole, I notice. Baby Nichole will continue to play a key role in the story. She is the embodiment of the relationship between Nick and June, which has had and will likely continue to affect Luke, not to mention have international diplomatic ramifications. She is a powerful symbol for Gilead, Canada and the US. Baby Nichole has a high public profile in Gilead — and June participated in highly publicized staged events in DC that were calling for Baby Nichole’s return. In the show, Hannah clearly knows that June is her mother, so knowing that Baby Nichole was smuggled out of Gilead combined with June’s now-famous role as the Angel Flight instigator should influence her already-complicated feelings about her mother, especially since Hannah remains in Gilead. And the fact that Gilead still has Hannah will continue to motivate June’s actions. /end novelette

I’m curious to see how Serena’s pregnancy will affect her dedication to pursuing a custody claim for Nicole, since that’s the entire reason she’s in Canada. Will it make a difference? Will she double down on her dream come true and exalt pregnancy and childbirth as a more virtuous (and higher status) type of motherhood in the eyes of the Gilead God? I can see her smugly rejoicing in the biological bonds of motherhood now that she is pregnant. Serena has already demonstrated willingness to circumvent Gilead rules when she arranged for Baby Angela to be seen by the obstetrician-turned-Martha, so she seems likely to pursue Gilead-prohibited prenatal, birth and post-natal medical care for herself and her son. She must be considered a high-risk pregnancy. It’s all well and good to pray for a healthy baby, but I’ll bet she has a top notch OB-GYN on speed-dial to make prison penthouse calls on a regular basis.

I doubt it was his first time doing anything he’s been caught doing (molesting his sisters, Ashley Madison, now this).

Is the particle accelerator used for propulsion? I'm not sure how the ship ever left Earth.

We got glimpses of the black market via Jezebel’s & Emily trading for sad medical supplies in the colonies. Any centrally controlled economy is going to have lots of corruption & “invisible” markets. I’m surprised we haven’t heard more about economic traitors, even in assisting in people fleeing Gilead. Many will look the other way for bribes vs morality (or bribes may help them find their morality). I guess they’re too busy cracking down on literacy and unauthorized sex.