Cambion

For me, I think the Pearl gave Dean back the dad he knew best. When they were hunting together as a team a lot of the time. I think Dean would have felt closest to his dad then and it makes sense to bring that back to him in his "perfect family" moment.

Oh nice! I thought it was probably a simulcast of the panel based on the date and time. 🙂 Thanks for the info.

Something coming up that doesn't seem to be getting a lot of fanfare. https://www.stageit.com/creationent Never seen anything like this before, so I don't know what it is exactly, but thought I'd share (got it from a creation mass email). Could be fun, could be a ripoff, but the price is good, so I'm giving a couple of these a go.

But Sam wasn't always that way. There's no indication he was being anything but legitimate at college. Then in the pilot he didn't like the fake ids and the credit card fraud. And... "In between jobs, Sam and Dean would sometimes get a day, sometimes a week if they were lucky. They'd pass the time lining their pockets. Sam used to insist on honest work-but now he hustles pool like his brother." (And thus spaketh Chuck. lol) So, I think his initial resolve was eroded by his circumstances-how else are they gonna live? But, all this doesn't matter anyway. Everyone will see things their own way and no will change anyone else's mind, and frankly, I think I'm gonna just lurk now because while I like reading your posts I really don't want to get into these kind of discussions. They frustrate me and will only raise my blood pressure and my anxiety med dosage. I don't want to raise either. lol Plus TPTB don't care, the characters sure as hell don't care, and I'm sure the actors will do what is best for themselves just as we all do. They will undoubtedly continue to have input into the characters they helped to create and if the guys who play the characters can't change the minds of the TPTB-and that's assuming they want to make changes-well then.... I mean, one thing I like about the characterizations in this show is that they are quite realistic. And I know from personal experience that we rarely get what we want or what we need and at some point most of us accept that and move on. So, it doesn't bother me if the characters don't get all the things the fans want them to have. That's life and that's what is being depicted here. Someone above said it's not a hero's journey, it's a tragedy. And it is. And in tragedies, nobody gets everything they want, or everything they need, or even anything good. And that's just life. And for the record, I'm not mad or anything. I guess I just don't have the energy to angst so hard over fictional characters and am happy to enjoy them as they are and accept it for the escape from the very real crap in my very real life without getting myself worked up over it all. So, I'll be around and I might post now and again, but I just didn't want anyone to think that I got upset over anything here and clammed up because of it. Cheers!

Yeah, this is how I took it. If TedTalk!Sam isn't overly exaggerating Sams health-conscious habits, and Dean being on a wanted poster for credit card fraud and grave desecration, etc., aren't being played for laughs, then what in that episode was? Sam is all the things Awesomo said above, and Dean plays fast and loose with legality and always has. So, yeah, if it looks like a duck....but then, sometimes a duck is JUST a duck. So, nefarious purposes can be assigned, or the jokes can be laughed at. Up to the individual, of course, but given how on one hand, we talk about how the writers don't know the characters, then, on the other hand, we talk about how they practice character assassination......I prefer to laugh at the jokes and move on, too.

SueB, thanks for this! I think I won't wait for the DVDs -- I wanna see what you look like!

*snort*

Yeah, the Ghostfacers one is one of my favorites, too. I mean Ed and Harry are annoying but in a very loveable way. 🙂 And I liked that they took the ghost lore further with the echoes, that was cool. And just the whole steady cam thing and bleeping out Dean, makes me laugh. These two, Dog Dean Afternoon, Yellow Fever, Mystery Spot and Changing Channels are my go tos on a bad day. (Well, and Thor: Ragnarok lol) sure to elevate my mood very quickly.

Oh. Em. Chuck! Fan Fiction is one of my favorites. So many great lines, the looks on the boy's faces when they first realize what they are seeing is hilarious, and Dean breaking the fourth wall is absolutely worth the price of admission. rofl

That's from Fan Fiction.

I've watched ep 300 several times and been reading the comments here and now that I've convinced myself that it's okay there's still dew on my rose, lol....I really enjoyed it. It had the closure for the boys that I needed to see/feel. Sam needed the feely bit and I was really impressed with both Jared and JDM in that scene. JDM being good was a given for me, but Jared really pulled out all the stops and it showed. And feeling that Dean is a kindred spirit, and knowing how people like us internalize things, I feel like he got the closure he needed, too. I don't know how to do a spoiler...but this is really a TMI, not a spoiler, I had a terrible relationship with my dad growing up. Things were expected of me that I couldn't do. I was beaten up (I had to go away from home for my protection), but I made peace with that in my own mind and tried to make peace with my dad by writing him a letter where, surprise, surprise, I apologized for being such a terrible child. He NEVER mentioned that letter to me and he NEVER apologized to me, but he did some things that showed he thought very differently after that. I've gone through so much counseling of the "your parents will never really love you" type, etc. And it was literally on his deathbed that my dad actually said, "I love you, Cambion." So, my TMI is to say, IMO, Dean got what he needed. I get that you guys want him to have more, but, honest to Chuck, some people don't need it blatantly laid out like that, and that's how I see Dean. It would be nice, sure, I agree. But just because John didn't get down on bended knee and beg Dean's forgiveness doesn't mean that Dean doesn't understand, or feel better for having one last chance to see his father. Some of us realize that we just ended up with parents that would be found in the seconds or irregulars bin at the department store and get that there's going to be holes and snags in the fabric. And we live with it because railing against all the things that did to us, even on the inside, only makes it worse. That's Dean. He's strong in a way that will never completely break. Anyway, enough of my pontification about children who are freaked up by their fathers. Mary worked for me this time, I hope the powers that be and Sam Smith will continue to show her this way. I still don't think she's going to be a mother to the boys, nor that they even believe she will be (or at this stop on that disappointment train want her to be), but it was nice to see some real vulnerability from her. I did like the town and the teenagers. It was a little time wastey, yeah, but it kept this whole experience from being in a vacuum, which I think made it seem a little more real and poignant in a "the world is still going on outside" way even though the family inside the bunker were trying so hard to hold onto one another. And, who knows, perhaps we'll get to see more of the boys interacting in the town. That's something I've been curious about ever since they started staying in one place, actually. Cause, they really aren't your regular kind of dudes and it's been noticed. Killing the pawn shop owner? Done and done. Guy had to go, Dean needed to stretch his stabbing arm, everybody wins. (Okay, that's probably really callous and stuff, but he did try to hurt the boys. And killed another hunter so definitely a Bad Guy(tm) who needed killing.) Someone mentioned it was good to see the OG Cas. I agree. He was a lot more fun when he didn't get all pop culture references. lol I wasn't bothered by Sam killing Zachariah in this timeline. Here, it was just another dick-with-wings kill, whereas when Dean killed him, it was very personal. So, it seemed different to me. If they hadn't gotten Kurt Fuller back it would have been just another red-shirted dick-with-wings kill and nobody would have noticed a thing. Dean was busy, Zach went after Sam, Sam shivved him. End of story. lol Well, that's more than enough of my drivel. Thanks for the chat the other night. It really was nice.

That darn Chuck!

I thought about that a while back, if the blood sigil to banish angels would work on Micheal, but then I realized that every other angel they used it on (including Cas) left them in their vessels. So, there's no reason it would blast Michael out of Dean...also, when it worked, the angels, like you said, were at the wheel. So I agree that Micheal being locked in the fridge isn't going to make the spell banish him. Seems like the magic doesn't look that deep.

Everyone, it was great to chat with you all in real time last night! I wasn't able to get everything, but Ithink at least one other person got part of the conversation(s) last night. Here is a copypasta of what I did get. Users online: Aeryn13, SueB, IloveReading, res, Cambion * gonzosgirrl joined * gonzosgirrl left * gonzosgirrl joined Cambion And I really liked that John remembered at the end, even though he thought it was a dream. * SueB left * IloveReading left gonzosgirrl It was just okay for me. Typical Sam- worshipping Dabb. Pissed he killed Zachariah. It actually felt like a personal screw you from Dabb to the Dean fans. gonzosgirrl Cooule of fun moments, but underwhelming on the whole. Cambion Are you pissed that Sam killed Zachariah or that Zachariah was killed? gonzosgirrl The first Cambion ah, okay. gonzosgirrl They just keep chipping away at all Dean's iconic monents and arcs gonzosgirrl Meh Cambion I didn't really think zach was gonna last long but that was like a cameo. lol gonzosgirrl Just ling rnough to give Sam the kill. I hate Dabb for that gonzosgirrl Long enough lol Cambion ah. Well, at least he's consistent. 😞 * PinkChicken joined gonzosgirrl And of course AU Sam is a lawyer, Dean is a criminal * ahrtee joined gonzosgirrl Its just all so predictable ahrtee Kind of underwhelming. gonzosgirrl Lol my word exactly arhtee ahrtee Just joined in and can't see earlier posts. gonzosgirrl Predictable from Dabb ahrtee No, not really offensive. Just boring. gonzosgirrl Lol it was just me rsnting4 gonzosgirrl The Zach thing. Grrrr gonzosgirrl One more thing taken from Dean ahrtee Well, it was undone so it never happened. 🙂 Cambion no you can't see the earlier stuff,that's why I was asking for people to copy past. I missed some because I got kicked. So, I guess copy and past from where you come in and we'll lookk at them all in posts tomorrow. Someone else got some of the earlier stuff. Aeryn13 Where the hell did Dean get any closure with John in this? Nothing really meaty about them was addressed. Cambion What would you have liked to see? PinkChicken I havent actually watched yet lol but I was curious and cant help spoiling myself ahrtee I kept waiting for Sam to say "no, I forgive you, and I understand, but you really need to apologize to Dean." Hah. PinkChicken 😞 gonzosgirrl Lol I can see why Jared was so enthusiastic, Tweeting all day. Cambion lol I just figured he had the day off and was bored... Aeryn13 It was more Sam-leaning/worshipping. As is Dabb's want. Cambion Pink swatchseries.to has the episode up. gonzosgirrl Hiw about a real plot twist: Dean is a teacher and Sam is a douchey criminal Cambion Well, you knew that was going tohappen. gonzosgirrl Jared knows exactly what hes Cambion Good one. Dean wouldhave to be one ofthose inner school tough love kind of teachers. gonzosgirrl Doing PinkChicken Im still trapped at uni for 2 hours. they wont let us through their wifi ahrtee Nobody addressed the fact that if it was all going to be undone and returned to the moment it changed, John could have stayed there for years and then returned. ahrtee Maybe Sam and Dean could have gotten another baby sibling! PinkChicken haha people on twitter already acting surprised that Adam wasnt mentioned Cambion Wait, wasn't that what Sam was talking about -- the timeline self correcting? gonzosgirrl Mary was completely unbelievable. Not the woman they've written the past two years gonzosgirrl I am the biggest sap for a tearjerker and it left me cold ahrtee I guess they're all used to unexpected resurrections these days, and only get a blink. Cambion They haven't mentioned Adam in forever. Why would they start now? I felt like he was just a stand in so they didn't have to put Michael into Dean back then. ahrtee Well, they mentioned Adam in ep. 200. Maybe once every hundred eps or so? Cambion lol PinkChicken haha gonzosgirrl Jake Abel had the tweet of the day lol ahrtee ? Cambion yeah, I didn't see that. I didn't spend too much time watching twitter. * myrelle joined gonzosgirrl https://twitter.com/MrJakeAbel/status/1093639809514405888?s=19 gonzosgirrl It was in response to Jared Cambion lol * gonzosgirrl left * gonzosgirrl joined ahrtee To Myrelle and late joiners: consensus, underwhelming. No closure for Dean. gonzosgirrl More like a love letter to Sam gonzosgirrl Sorry, that's how I feel ahrtee Love letter to John. Everyone loved/forgave him and he didn't have to apologize for anything. * IloveReading joined gonzosgirrl I wish so much that the show wouldn't end under Dabb. myrelle Definitely underwhelming. It's just so clear that Dabb has no interest whatsoever in writing for Dean or Jensen. PinkChicken tbh i was pretty much expecting fluff that ignored anything too complicated gonzosgirrl Yeah that too arhtee * IloveReading left ahrtee JDM said that he wanted to clear John's reputation. He did that by having everyone ignore it. gonzosgirrl I don't think its coincidence that there was one obligatory tweet from Jensen, whike myrelle It was exactly what I expected. Bringing back John was just a gimmick for the 300th. so true, ahrtee, gonzosgirrl Whike Jared was all over Twitter and Facebook for days gonzosgirrl While* ahrtee I wouldn't mind bringing John in as a gimmick if it made sense/had any emotional resonance. But no. myrelle Jensen did what he could, as usual and I'm sure that Glynn wrote his material gonzosgirrl But the old lady in the post office likes Dean. What more do you want? myrelle Nothing really got to me, except his flinch when the pearl was crushed and his face when John was hugging him good-bye gonzosgirrl I could not get emotional about John when it was just so much bs revisionist history ahrtee And unnecessary. And illogical. gonzosgirrl Me2 myrelle gonzosgirrl https://twitter.com/clarissa373/status/1093712636653404160?s=19 gonzosgirrl Wtf Dabb? ahrtee The only thing I got out of the final scene was that John (finally) answered one of Dean's phonecalls, and (maybe) he had been about to take off and leave him entirely but decided to go back. At least until 2005, because everything else had to happen. ahrtee That's being kind. ahrtee I mean it's a kind interpretation. I don't think it's true. myrelle Dabb is delusional. ahrtee Dabb is a comic-book writer. His characters are 2-dimensional. gonzosgirrl And he carried his SamBoy comicbook tendencies into the mothership ahrtee I think he doesn't understand 3-D. Everyone has one basic characteristic and he sticks to it. myrelle I thought that John and Dean seemed more like equals during their brief one on one interaction and when they talked about John having to go back, but when John tried to get personal it almost seemed as if Dean finally understood that his father never had a clue about who Dean ever was at his core and I think that's part of what that exchange with Sam was all about while they were doing the dishes. * SueB joined gonzosgirrl That's a good interpretation myrelle myrelle I found it interesting that Dean even seemed a little annoyed with John thinking that he would even entertain the thought of a "normal" life Cambion That all makes good sense myrelle. Cambion going back a little because I was afk and just catching up now: what is the background on Jensen not tweeting? Has he done a lot in the past and slowed down now? gonzosgirrl Are we to believe they told him that Michael is in Dean right now? I kniw he summed up the Lucifer's kid thing, but its crazy if he knew about Michael and didnt even talk about trying to save Dean gonzosgirrl It's not a pattern Cambion gonzosgirrl But this is a pretty big deal episode and.... nothing? * SueB left ahrtee They didn't really try to save anyone but Mary. That's the reason they decided John had to go back. *sigh* And why didn't she disappear at the same time the other changes happened? gonzosgirrl While Jared and Misha have been Tweeting and Facebooking for two days? Cambion Ah,, I see. I just haven't noticed a lot of social media from him compared to many of the other actors. gonzosgirrl He has with episodes brforer gonzosgirrl Before Cambion Yeah, I thought John might have glommed onto the Michael thing, too, but I thought at the end that they were deliberately giving the Michael angst a rest this ep. gonzosgirrl Jared doesn't normally tweet much show related either ahrtee It looks like Jared wasn't tweeting on this ep in particular, just celebrating the past 13 years. Cambion Yeah, that's what I meant. Did he do this on episodes before and that's why it was so noticable now. gonzosgirrl Unless it's Samcentric gonzosgirrl Not trying to convince you gonzosgirrl This is a landmark, regardless of history Cambion no, Iunderstand, I am just trying to see where you're coming from. gonzosgirrl And its odd that there's nothing Cambion yeah. I see what you mean. myrelle It didn't seem like they told him about Michael in Dean's head and if they did it's even worse because it was so pointedly ignored. Cambion Well, I thought that Sam as the Kale Guru was a perfect jab. lol gonzosgirrl Anyhow that's enough bitching for me, lol. Night folks. * Aeryn13 left Cambion Yeah, I don't remember them talking about that with John, but I'm going to need some rewatches to catch everything. Cambion Night Gonzo. myrelle I was also left wondering if Mary knows about Adam. Cambion I doubt she does. gonzosgirrl Yeah Sam's a healthy genius gonzosgirrl Dean's a criminsl Cambion well, I'd rather be a criminalthan a douchebag health idiot, but that's just me. gonzosgirrl That's the kind of 'insult ' Sam usually gets gonzosgirrl Too smart, too tall, too respectable gonzosgirrl Dean's too dumb, too sloppy, too horny, etc ahrtee And too needy. gonzosgirrl Uhh huh * Bergamot joined ahrtee Because he can't live without his brother, and that's why he's going to lock himself up...um... gonzosgirrl It's no surprise the Sam girls love the episode and the Dean fans are meh gonzosgirrl I would live to ge a Sam fan ... it's a lot easier lol * sarthaz joined Cambion Well, he can't live without his brother because he's been programmed that way and because Sam is the only one to have ever shown him an ounce of love. gonzosgirrl Holy crap i can't type sarthaz I'm not OK * gonzosgirrl left Cambion Not okay? sarthaz Sorry, not literally. Just finished the episode. Emotional wreck Cambion yeah, some heart ache for me, too, but I'm still new to the show and the shine is still bright Cambion Any high or low points you want to share? sarthaz When John realizes Mary is alive. JDM was brilliant. At that moment, I lost my shit and I never regained it. Cambion ah, yeah, the look on his face was really something. Could really see his disbelif give way to happiness ahrtee I might have had a more emotional reaction if they hadn't spoiled so much. And I usually like spoilers. sarthaz Really the only things I knew were JDM and Kurt Fuller appearing. I avoided everything else. * myrelle left Cambion yeah, it kept the excitement high, but I watched all the spoilery stuff and feel like I went in with more knowledge than I would have liked. I'm going to have to reform my ways. ahrtee Yeah, they showed the John/Mary reunion scene in advance. That kind of killed the excitement for me. sarthaz Yeah, I avoid all that stuff. I don't know why people want to know spoilers Cambion yeah, that's one I'd have rather not seen screwed myself on that one lol ahrtee I love spoilers. When I was a kid I used to write whole eps in my head based on the "coming attractions." But they were supposed to make you want to watch, not show everything that happened. 😞 * catrox14 joined catrox14 joined catrox14 welp...... Cambion Ahrtee, yeah, too often that is true now a days Cambion Welp, what did you think catrox? Cambion btw, I've been saving this, I did miss a section when I got kicked off awhile back, but I will post this on the forums when they are back up * auntvi joined * auntvi left Bergamot They are now saying it won't be until at least tomorrow evening for the forum to come back up. Cambion yikes Cambion great timing for us * AwesomO4000 joined sarthaz We probably would have broken the forum tonight anyway Cambion ha! AwesomO4000 Hey everyone! Just dropped by mostly to say hello. Cambion Hello!!! PinkChicken hey sarthaz Bitch AwesomO4000 Jerk Bergamot It's weird to me how they don't seem to check anymore, with silver or holy water, when someone returns from the dead. It's John -- hooray, Dad's back. And Mary just falls into a kiss when she sees John without a single question. Cambion good point AwesomO4000 Yes good point sarthaz Mary has silver in her lipstick and drinks holy water throughout the day. NEXT! AwesomO4000 Hee! I would not have guessed that he car napping was going to be one of the town teens. Bergamot Also, it shouldn't bother me, but it does, that the actor looked so different. That 2003 John looked older than 2005 John. It made it hard for me to accept him as 2003 John. Cambion hmmm that would make a good bit of plot in the future..."The Story of how Something got in to the Bunker and we all have to go back to Hunter's Hogwarts". Cambion yeah on the car napping. someone mentioned maybe it was John, I kind of expected that. ahrtee Dean and Sam have their own Scooby gang now. sarthaz John gained weight from 2003-2005 and that made him look younger. NEXT! AwesomO4000 hee - you're on a roll! Cambion yeah, I really thought about that, too,but I figured that was one of those suspend disbelief moments and just roll with it. Cause I think they'd have written themselves into a corner if they tried to explain it Cambion Their own Scooby gang hee AwesomO4000 I really wanted to see what that creepy old teddy bear was gonna do... they kept teasing us with it. Cambion oh, I know! Why did it look like it's mouth was sewn shut? Cambion And the look Dean gave Sam when he picked it up. ahrtee They left all that stuff in the back seat? Not even in the trunk? AwesomO4000 Sam was intrigued for some reason, too, like he knew it had that key thing and what it might do. Cambion Oh yeah the string in the back? And ahrtee, I know! Back to hunter's school for you. AwesomO4000 Hopefully Garth isn't still in the trunk :: joke :: Cambion well,maybe that's why they had to put the stuff in the back seat....hmmmm AwesomO4000 (I did forget where Garth is now however) catrox14 I was underwhelmed and pissed. PinkChicken its a big trunk lol ahrtee And Garth is pretty small. AwesomO4000 hee! PinkChicken they didnt say, dungeon or back to normal and gone once michael was locked in? catrox14 @ahrtee, plot contrivance stupidity catrox14 Mary is still on my poop list AwesomO4000 Well, the town kids were talking about noise from the trunk... oh I hope poor Garth isn't still in there = hee ahrtee Catrox, "underwhelmed" got used quite a bit here. Cambion indeed AwesomO4000 Thanks, PinkChicken - I thought it was just me forgetting catrox14 They wasted so much time on the stupid teenagers. catrox14 They could have gotten to John's return like in the first 5 minutes. AwesomO4000 I liked the beginning more than the end. I thought the set up was pretty clever, and better than I expected concerning the townspeople. catrox14 Dean telling John he loved him, just fuels my ongoing spec that Dean is gonna die for real Bergamot It seemed to me like two different episodes awkwardly fastened together, with the town stuff and the John stuff. Not exactly seamless. AwesomO4000 (I liked the stupid teenagers.) Cambion You don't think it was just that he got the chance to say it because he never had? AwesomO4000 agreed Bergamont Cambion (the teenagers were kind of fun for me) sarthaz I think they were trying to do a nod to the fans with the teenagers, like The Real Ghostbusters or Fan Fiction, but Dabb's not a good enough writer, so it fell flat catrox14 Bergamot, YES, exactly. It felt wildly disjointed and IMO robbed much of the emotional appeal of the reunion ahrtee I wouldn't have had a problem with the teens (other than stupidity) in any other ep. It just didn't fit with this particular ep, and took time and attention away from what the real story should have been, which is the Winchester Family reunion. Bergamot I have to say that I thought it was odd, the way that Dean and Sam casually went out grocery shopping shortly after their father had returned from the dead. If that happened to me, I wouldn't leave his side for days. Cambion Well, I gotta roll. I've copied to here. If anyone else wants to copy and save what comes next to share on the boards when they are back up. Bergamot Of course, I'm not a Winchester. catrox14 Cambion, I think that might be true, but Dean has so far told Sam he loved him, in a sneaky way. and now John. There is little that will dissuade my spec about Dean. LOL * Aeryn13 joined Cambion gotch catrox, I'm not arguing with anyone, just have seen you guys refer to these things in your posts and now I have a chance to ask and see where you're coming from on them. That's all. Bergamot I did like some of the stuff in the town. Not the teenagers though. They were too cliched. Cambion Well good night guys it was great to talk to you in real time! catrox14 No worries, Cambion. My spec started back with Regarding Dean and the closing homage and song. And since then I see them morphing Sam into Dean in many ways. It's just a lot of things. sarthaz Carry on, Cambion Cambion oh yeah I know the one you mean Cambion hmmm Cambion thanks sarthaz! catrox14 Have a good night, Cambion! and thanks for creating this chat for us! ahrtee Goodnight! Cambion you bet! I have to take care of my peeps!

I think Sam remembers, just not IN THAT moment, because - typical Sam - a gift horse is only for practicing dental exams, not because you actually need to ride somewhere.

oh. em. gee. I just snorted coffee from this morning out my nose.....lol

IA with this. But I think the main reason the character works for me is that when she first said she needed space and fought with the boys I knew she was never really going to be their mother. So I don't expect anything from her. She was just going to be another friend, maybe. Sometimes maybe doing motherly things, but not really relating to them that way. If she was going to be written and portrayed as their mother it would have started back then. She's a not a good parent (and neither was John). So since then, I've seen her as a symbol of what was lost and can never be regained. A sort of underlined reminder of the boys' disappointing lives. Mary was a hunter and tried to be a mom and couldn't leave hunting behind as shown in the Asa Fox episode when she was still at it after Dean was born. Finishing up old cases? Bitch, please. If you really wanted to leave hunting behind you would have. And then hunting turned John into a militant, revenge-driven, less than perfect parent, to put it nicely. JDM can keep reminding us about how much John loved the boys, and I think that was shown (I saw that in the first seasons, anyway), but he truly was not thinking about raising his kids in any kind of way that was beneficial to them. He set them up for lives of pain and regret, and in Dean's case to never have any real self-esteem. But hunting is what defines the boys, especially Dean, in every way imaginable. Both positive and negative. Even Sam couldn't leave it behind when Dean came knocking. Would Jess have still died and Sam gone back out of revenge? Yeah, he definitely would have. YED was planning to hurt and goad Sam however he could and of course to Sam, revenge is hunting what hurt him, just like his dad programmed him and Dean to do. Then add in the time loops back to their parents' young lives. The MOL legacy of their family, the hunting legacy of their family, there really was no escape for these guys. A normal, apple pie life isn't really even a pipe dream. Whenever that little gen comes up I hear it as bitter resentment for something they are never going to be allowed to have. They are locked into hunting as surely as any prison and the key was long ago destroyed. And as characters, sure we care about them and want to see them be nurtured and have good things and be rewarded for their heroism and all. But you know, if all the things we complain about on their behalf were fixed, the show would be about a couple of soccer dads living in suburbia and I don't care who you are -- nobody would watch that sh*t! lol

Some really good ones there. Got a few favorite episodes to watch now!

East coasters could go in earlier, I only ask someone copy and paste what was said so that us prairie dogs, mountain goats and left coasters can share it! And everyone, don't join until you've seen it to avoid spoilers!!

Type in SueB so we'll all know it's you.

Okay, here is the url https://hack.chat/?SPN300 I'll open it up about 8pm Pacific time. Please join if you'd like and use your PTV handle so we'll know who everyone is. Looking forward to the ep and chatting with all of you!

Ugh, I remember that....*shudder*

That would be great. We could start earlier, but I don't want to spoil for people who will see it later in the west. Also, hack.chat doesn't allow for logging, but the chat can be saved through copy and paste, so if anyone misses and still wants to see what is discussed, I'll copy it and save it in an anonymous google drive. Could paste it here as well? (also,would be good if those participating used the samevnicknames as they use here.)

If y'all would be interested, there is a way we can have a private chat room that you won't have to register for. If anyone is interested in doing this at a little after say, 8 pm Pacific Time when the last time slot is done, I'd be happy to set this up and provide the url. This would be through hack.chat (in case you'd like to check it out before hand), so it's a disposable web chat room. Since it's in a browser it should be usable from phones and tablets as well as computers and will work for any OS format. If there's anyone else who'd like to do this, I"m happy to set it up. Cause I'd like to have a chance to chat afterwards, too. So, like this post, or answer, and if there are a few people interested I'll put in a url that we can use tomorrow night. Cheers!

Yes! That's just what I spent about 10 minutes trying to say and gave up for lack of words. (Brain's on overload lately, thanks for reading my mind Tessa!) I saw Michael!Dean in my head thinking about this. Let's face it, only Jensen could give this sort of thing justice. I would love to see some of that. How did Michael get so powerful on the AU Earth and win there? What really made him turn against Chuck? He only said that knowing what Dean knows about Chuck let him know about the discarded drafts. Michael was already mad at Chuck and it seemed more than the "Dad abandoned us!" trope. Or, well, could be. Sigh. Maybe we'll get some fanfic at least.