hunenka

This just made me realize how many characters I've come to dislike (or downright hate) in the past few years. I've tried this about 15 times, and my reaction was almost always "Ught" or "Bleh". Which, in many cases, it wouldn't have been a few years back.

I was bothered by this too, but on rewatch of the scene where he wakes up, I noticed that all the Leviathan blossoms in the field were burned -- the Leviathans probably figured that if Dean and Castiel were looking for these flowers, it would be best to destroy them. So at least it wasn't a case of Dean being written as so dumb that he doesn't even get what he needs when it's right in front of him. (Not that it changes anything about your point of the writers having no interest in Dean, or his Purgatory experience.)

What is it with Cas whining about going on dangerous missions this season? This is the second time in season 15 that he’s dragged his feet about going to Hell, even though both times it was part of an important, potentially world-saving plan, and he wasn't the only member of TFW putting his life on the line.

I finally watched the entire episode (not just the Dean bits), and came across Sam saying this to Eileen: I've been there, too uh, Hell. A long time ago. You try and forget, but it gets inside you. Why, Meredith Glynn, why? “You try and forget, but it gets inside you?” What a surprise, and what an unexpected, deep thought! It almost makes me feel bad for Jared and Sam, having to say dumb, banal stuff like that about something that is, on one level, perfectly obvious, and on another level, something that shouldn’t even be possible to put into words, something so horrible that it’s unthinkable, unnamable. Imagine how much powerful Sam and Eileen’s bonding over Hell would’ve been if Sam had been unable to say anything besides maybe “I’ve been there too” and then trailed off, lost in the horror, or better yet, cut himself off because he can’t even go there in his thoughts. The show’s tendency to spell everything out for the audience is taking away so much weight and depth from what the characters are going through.

That Berens script is so bad it would be hilarious, except it’s a pretty good symbol of what exactly went wrong with the show and that makes it very tragic. I can’t wrap my head around the fact that someone who’s supposedly a professional writer would put things like that into a script. Just imagine being on the SPN production team and reading this script, and wondering how the hell you’re going to transfer those ridiculous things on the screen. Even worse, imagine being Jensen and reading the script where everyone is badass and cool and fun, but Dean barely gets a mention. What a slap in his face. And maybe the oddest idea yet, imagine being Jared and reading the script, wondering how to pull off being “half Christ, half cowboy”…

Glad I'm not the only one! Everyone was dressed like straight out of a catalogue. And maybe the fish & wildlife outfits really were new and Dean just bought them and was excited they'll get to wear them, I could buy that. But the sweater werewolves and camping-accident-straight-out-of-the-hospital Lilith in her matching yellow hat, socks and scarf... that was just ridiculous. And very distracting.

Not that I particularly want to see more of depressed Sam, but how exactly did he go from “sometimes I can’t even breathe” to laughing at Dean with the ghost pepper or teasing Dean about his age? The seesaw of which brother is depressed and which one is optimistic isn’t exactly unexpected given this set of writers, but it’s jarring nonetheless. At least I could get why Dean’s back to feeling hopeless by the end of the episode, but Sam suddenly seeming fine when last week he couldn’t conjure up a smile if the fate of the world depended on it is just dumb. And it could've been easily fixed by showing Sam's just trying to look okay so Dean won't worry (just like Dean did with Sam in 15x04).

The problem with this theory is that Jared's been doing the stuttering and stilting for years now; I think it started somewhere around season 12 or 13. And it only keeps getting more prominent. Back when it started happening, I used to think it was Jared playing Sam suffeing from permanent nerve damage from all the head wounds, but that doesn't seem to be the case either...

I can't recall at which con(s) they talked about it, but they mentioned several times that they've been talking about an episode à la The Naked Gun, and that they have a whole text threat of ideas between the three of them.

For me, this was the most enjoyable con panel in a long time. Fans were asking intelligent, show- or Jensen-related questions and Jensen was giving thoughtful, detailed answers with no interruptions. Which isn’t to say I don’t like J2 (or Jensen and Misha) having a little silly fun on stage, but when it comes down to it, what I care about the most, what I want to hear about the most, is the show, the characters, the creative process behind it. And this panel delivered on that pretty well.

It felt like Dean was on screen a bit more than in 15x01, and he even got to do something at one point, so that’s an improvement. And the only thing I care about at this point, really. The Rowena/Ketch scenes were almost as cringeworthy and borderline parody as Rowena/Gabriel was in season 13. Belphegor continues to be a fan of Dean. I like that. Dean talking to Cas was nice, I like that he’s still angry, and very open and unapologetic about it. Also, Cas’s response to the whole Chuck and free will situation felt pretty unsatisfying to me, no wonder it didn’t comfort Dean at all.

It was so underwhelming and forgettable that I barely remember I’ve seen it. What stuck with me (and might haunt me for a while) is the memory of that ridiculously bad chase/fight between the ghosts and Sam, Cas, mom + girl. Those ghosts hobbling and limping their way after the good guys, giggling and laughing manically like a bunch of deranged lunatics in some extremely insensitive movie about a psychiatric hospital… Sam & Co. having difficulty getting away from them… Way to make supernatural threats laughable and absolutely non-threatening, and way to make our protagonists look absolutely incompetent!

To keep most Dean fans watching, because they know as long as Dean's there, even if he's got practically nothing to do, we can't turn our backs on the show. By the way--and this might be just me--I don't care how many of Dean's storylines, character traits or roles they try to give to Sam... they never manage to do it well. They may tell us Sam's a great leader, Sam has a great relationship with people around him, Sam is so empathetic and sensitive etc., but they're unable to show it convincingly, which only leaves him looking like an unsuccessfull wannabe. I mean, just compare Dean killing the YED to Sam killing the Alpha Vamp---one is epic, one looks dumb. Or Dean's natural, often unspoken leadership throughout the entire show, with people --even complete strangers--falling in line and following his command, versus Sam's TED talks to the wannabe hunters. Or any of Dean's fight scenes (especially in the last few seasons, since Rob Hayter came on) versus Sam's. (This of course doesn't mean that it doesn't suck they're even trying to do this, but the fact that they keep screwing it up is giving me at least some amount of comfort.)

Exactly. The fact that he has a very good idea of just how bad it's going to be, and that he's understandably scared of that, but is still ready to go through with it because it has to be done—that's true courage.

I feel the same way. Though in this particular case from the sneak peek, I'm trying to also explain it as Dean being reluctant to do research on Michael, because with Michael still inside him, there's a chance Michael would know of whatever new info and plan they'd possibly come up with. (But let's be real... I'm sure that never even crossed the writers' minds, especially since it seems that Dean's building some sort of a physical cage for himself/Michael in the episode, so again, if Michael is listening, he'll know what to expect just the same.)

Oh yes, a Sateda-like episode for Dean would be so good! And while we’re talking about inspiration from other TV shows, here’s what I’d love to see: for Dean to have a moment like Buffy in her with Angelus in Becoming, Part Two: ANGELUS: Now that’s everything, huh? No weapons... No friends... No hope. Take all that away and what’s left? BUFFY: Me. (Nice gifset of the scene here.)

It just occured to me that for someone who repeatedly mocked Dean for being "weak", dark!Kaia gave him the spear pretty quickly, which means she thought he had a chance of actually killing Michael.

Exactly. And for me, the same goes about Dean's uncharacteristically narrow-focused, almost self-centered mindset when they were looking for the spear. The stress on how he wants revenge for what Michael's done to him (instead of what Michael's done to everyone, and what he's still planning to do), and the "I won't be truly happy until he is dead and I kill him" (as opposed to simply focusing on Michael ending up dead, no matter who does the deed). That's not a typical approach for Dean, who usually wants things to get done, period. But it wouldn't have to be OOC if more time was spent exploring just how horribly the posession has been for Dean, and how it's gnawed at him -- the helplesness, the frustration, the despair... until he just had to be the one who finds and kills Michael for what's been done to him. We didn't see any of that, unfortunately.

Not that I disagree (because you're absolutely right), but on the other hand—wouldn't it be a waste to use those good titles on crappy episodes? Remember Paint It Black or All Along the Watchtover? Such great songs, and such lacklustre episodes, even more so because of the discrepancy between their names and what they actually delivered. It's rather fitting: uninspired episode titles for uninspired episodes.

[quoting @Bergamot from the Nightmare Logic thread here, just to be safe] This is a very good point! Someone on Tumblr also pointed out that all these AU people in the bunker basically treat Jack like a complete stranger, although he's lived with them for quite some time, even saved them from an angel attack... and of course gave them that shadow puppets show. But now, because the show decided to give Jack a "woe me" storyline, he's just ignored by everyone so he can feel useless and unappreciated.

Because "our" Charlie didn't have any girlfriend (at least not when Sam and Dean knew her). Though it's a bit surprising that Sam was so surprised (*g*) by this. The AU world was literally a different world, so what exactly he found so shocking about this particular difference escapes me.

Curiously though, Sam seemed really worried and uncertain about Dean and Jack going on a hunt, even going as far as to suggest sending some other hunters to work the case. So he trusts Maggie to hunt on her own, but Dean watching over Jack on a hunt is too dangerous?

I enjoyed the Dean & Jack storyline, it was fresh and rather nicely balanced (no idiot Dean, luckily), with Dean clearly being in the mentor role but letting Jack pull a lot of the weight too. And I loved what he said to Jack about making mistakes and learning from them at the end. I know a lot of people don’t like Jack, but I think Alex is a really good actor, so unless the script is outrageously woobifying Jack, he’s one of the most enjoyable characters on the show now. Especially his delivery of those comedic lines where Jack doesn’t realize he’s being awkward or just plain weird are really good (way better than what Misha is doing in similar scenes as Cas). And the “old man” exchange was priceless. I think it worked so well (aside from Jensen’s hilarious acting, of course) because the whole episode made it clear that Dean is in fact not some useless old man. Sam and AU!Charlie were in parts boring, in parts very bad. I wanted to yell “Yes!” at the screen when Charlie talked about getting away from hunting. (What a nice change from our Charlie’s belief that hunting is some awesome magical quest… which Dean tried to talk her out of, unsuccessfully.) Sam’s weird motivational speeches about people and how Charlie needs to stay were cringeworthy. I only hope that Charlie didn’t actually change her mind about leaving, and just said whatever Sam wanted to hear because after being stuck in a car with him and his speeches all day, she just had to shut him up. Oh, and I loved Dean's distaste of the term "hunting buddies"!

Thank you so much! (*runs off to the fic thread to look for goodies*)

What's paradoxical though is that due to this combination of woobifying and Mary Sue-ing of pretty much all the characters, Dean stands out as the only one keeping it real. He's the only one who isn't ridiculously great at everything, but that just keeps him believable and he ends up being the only one who looks actually competent or anywhere close to a real person.