Featherhat

I don't think her wanting to murder Kang or disagreeing with Loki was a betrayal but the kiss then zapping him to a version of the TVA was the betrayal part. Although that was indeed so obvious that Loki should have seen it coming despite his feelings for Sophie. And it is payback for all the times he betrayed his own loved ones. I completely understand why she did it and no one can say it was out of character but for me it was frustrating because if she'd been able to see an inch past instant stabification she would realise that there was a potential option 3 or 4 out there that would actually benefit her more in the long run.. The clock wasn't ticking down on a doomsday scenario, she could have at least heard Loki out and then go ahead if she still thought he was picturing ruling the timeline. Then again that's also very in character for any Loki to not be able to help themselves and make things more difficult. I do think she was regretting it with the crying and possibly has realised that she's just opened up a giant Kang's Box. I have no sympathy for Kang or the TVA as an organisation but there always seems to have to be something at least watching over time in fiction and this show sticks to tropes pretty thoroughly so I expect a kinder, gentler TVA or something to form to Legends of Doctor McFly History Monks it into place occasionally. There's a medium between chaos and dictatorship. Ravonna's going to be interesting to watch to see how deep with this cult like denial she goes and if she comes out the other side.

War can be a consequence of free will but it's rarely everyone's will and trillions would die or be wiped from being born in a time war. But if there was any truth to the "dogma" of the TVA then a time war where the timelines fought each other almost ended up destroying *everything*. There are no timelines that didn't get affected by it. Of course we don't know if most actually lived in peace and it was just the Kangs that ended up getting killed until this one got his wish for supremacy. I don't think it justifies the TVA's brutal tactics of "pruning" branches but I don't think it's as simple as let the timelines branch out and fight as they may either. For one thing time wars are never linear and always mess with time itself to the point where someone or something has to step in to heal the situation. I don't think Loki and Sylvie should have taken Kang's offer in the slightest but I do think she shouldn't have rushed to stab him and quickly jump to Loki wanting to rule time when he said "lets think things through". There may have been a 3rd option, especially if they'd been able to contact Mobius and B-15 as well. In other shows/movies/books where they get rid of the Time-keepers/masters/lords/auditors/bureau there are others around that still have to fix problems in time in a less brutal way to prevent reality from completely breaking down.

Hmm....Lots of thoughts. It wasn't bad and clearly sets a LOT up for the rest of Phase 4 let alone a second season but hm...It felt really short even a season finale of a show this expansive, even if it was 40 minutes, possibly because most of it was just sitting in Kang's? office. The haunted castle aesthetic looked better up close than it did last week where it looked like a fair ground attraction. Miss Minutes popping up there to offer the "deal" was genuinely creepy. I think it's the voice that's "have a nice day, y'all" no matter what she's saying. I'm not surprised that they did the "you were meant to come and fine me" bit that so many time travel and sci-fi/fantasy shows do, Loki has hewn pretty closely to a lot of tropes. Not that that's a bad thing but it's an interestingly conventional route for a show about Loki in many ways. Jonathan Majors was good and managed to keep the energy of the role up and was clearly batshit insane. I think he was genuinely tired of the game and thought if he could get two variants of the trickster god on his side things had a half way decent chance of working out. Sort of like promoting your biggest rival/revolutionary to a high position to make him see the "benefits" of the system as is. I kind of did like that whilst he is the architect of Sylvie's horrible life that someone called her out on also being a murderer of innocents. She has glossed over that part a lot. So Renslayer is the kind of cultist that when it all turns out to be fake doubles down, that makes sense. "Only one person gets free will, the one in charge" I mean in some ways she's not entirely wrong but that's a pretty nihilistic way of looking at it and destroys any personal accountability apart from anything else. And also conveniently fits into her world view that it doesn't even matter if the TVA was fake. It will be interesting to see where she went. But "remove the dictator and what fills the void" is a question that's had a lot of horrific answers on our world as well. Not that that justifies a melomaniac in power making people dance to his will either. It does require more thought that simply murdering the dictator and hoping for the best though. As we saw at the end with the statue. I know this is sort of an unpopular opinion but I'm not a huge fan of Sylvie. I get why she is what she is and her life has been horrific so she wants revenge but she's also a one track mind bull in a china shop. Loki asking her to wait for 2 minutes to think through the ramifications is actually character growth on his part and I don't think he'd lie to her/trick her at this point if he just wanted a throne and that was his plan. He's never been shy about saying that in the past. And Kang saying "see you soon" as he was dying was pretty much the most terrifying thing. Not invested in Loki/Loki but I did kind of feel bad for him being betrayed by someone he loved, although that was pretty much karmic payback for all the times he's done the same thing as well. TH can really bring the devastation on his face both with Sylvie's betrayal and realising that is best friend doesn't know him anymore. That one was worse (for me). The branching timelines looked beautiful. I'm sad we didn't really get to see much of B-15 in this ep although she delivered a couple of important lines. Owen Wilson also didn't have much to do but a lot of set up for next season. Mobius hasn't really learned his lesson when it comes to confronting people has he? He was the optimistic side of the coin to Renslayer's "ends justify the means doesn't matter if it was all fake" approach and they do play well off each other as well as obviously he and TH. I think I need a rewatch to get my thoughts in more of an order.

He's like a cockroach at this point, even though his appearance was CW era timeline wise. I really did enjoy this, although I opted for Disney + rather than theatres and I think I would have liked the experience better on the big screen. I thought this was a pretty good character piece and a fitting enough swan song for Nat even though this movie should have been greenlit after Avengers 1. Still, I'm glad they went for it anyway. I do like ScarJo as Nat but I can see why not everyone does. I thought she anchored the film well and even cheesy lines like "I've thought about her every day of my life, whether or not I admitted it to myself." And the thinking she deliberately murdered a child as collateral damage and then for real killed her would be enough to think you can never have redemption. Yelena definitely stole the movie though. Apart from anything else finally a female character gets to sarcastic quip their way through the movie instead of just rolling their eyes at the boys nonsense. I thought she had great "sibling" chemistry with ScarJo: The Poses! The ouch moment when she talked about the trained killer that little girls call their hero. She ran the gamut of emotions in the family scenes perfectly. It's definitely messed up that the "baby" of the family was the only one who thought it was real and even though she knows it wasn't, it's still her happiest memories. I did cry when she was at Nat's grave. I hope she wasn't snapped so they were able to spend some time together but I assume she was because it makes sense for Nat's complete despair. It's definitely going to be interesting seeing her go after Clint who most definitely should have died. Sorry, Endgame rant. The entire "family" put the "fun is dysfunction". David Harbour was great of course "I wanted the Party to feel more like a party and not a bunch of sour pusses!" and Weisz was fine but not given very much to do. I am surprised both of them made it out alive. And I like the dynamics between Alexi who on the surface thought that anything that wasn't Ref Guardian was beneath him but did love his girls and was proud of them. And it was also awkward because they hadn't seen each other in 20 years, even if they weren't The Americans as well. O-T Fagbenle was good. Although he didn't have a great amount to work with as "MCU comic side kick" but hey, odds are he'll popup in a D+ show. The third act was a bit disappointing. I didn't really care anything about Taskmaster because I was here for the Assassin Family Values and I'd guessed exactly who it was as soon as the character was mentioned but I can see why some were upset at the dud of a bad guy.

The Time Keepers are transforming the end of time into Utopia. How very Doctor Who of them. This whole show is feeling very DW on a massive budget which is understandable in some ways given it’s a time travel show with an English accented lead. Tom Hiddleston was good in the meeting scenes with all the Lokis, I thought he brough the right amount of exasperation, desperation, wit and “fuck this is just another weird thing to deal with” . I did like his classic Team Speech that all the Lokis laughed at, even though it was pretty predictable because Marvel has metaed that a few times before. Kid Loki killed Thor! Thanos helicopter? “Did you leave your Glorious Purpose there?” Love you, Boastful Loki and you’re attempts to brag that you killed all the Avengers and gain all six Infinity Stones. I mean betraying his friends as well, but that’s extremely standard Loki for you. I also liked Richard E Grant Loki. His stunt on the ship seems like the kind of thing that were would have expected “our” Loki to pull off, except he didn’t just that one time. Although if there’s one Sacred Timeline in this dimension and all these Lokis are variants, why are they so different looking? Wouldn’t they be from different dimensions or the multiverse (as in separate universes with their own timelines) instead? I wish I liked Slyvie more. I don’t hate her and kid version of her definitely didn’t deserve what happened to her but I’m finding it a little hard to care about her. And I do think she’s letting herself off some of the innocents she hurt even though she was being hunted. I did like parts of the talk with Loki in the Void, I thought that worked well as awkward and sincere. I'm glad there wasn't really too much more on the Loki/Slyvie romance but a general sense of quest partner. I definitely care about Mobius and B-15, I’m really glad they’re not dead. I did like that Mobius apologised to Slyvie and he’s right that when you think the ends justify the means then there’s not much you won’t do but it’s also never too late to change, albeit as long as you’re brave enough. I did like his thoughts on whether or not Aligator!Loki was really a Loki and whether or not playing a long con about it was more likely to make him an actual Loki. "Thanks for the Spark!" Aww. As for Renslayer, she’s the other side of the coin to Mobius. She’s ice cold but I think she is scrambling underneath. Like the person that's realised that all they believe in is a lie but is doubling down instead of accepting it. The Haunted Castle feel at the end was a bit of an anti climax for me but I'm looking forward to getting some answers. Richard E Grant Loki finally got to go out like "our" Loki did in IW, with a grand gesture to guaranteed to get him killed and laughing about it.

"Our" Loki played out "save Asgard" sometimes. As a kid in the Thor 1 flashbacks he wanted to be it's protector and King but let his own jealousy of Thor get in the way of everything. Sylvie never had the chance to get jealous of Thor, she might have if she'd stayed. A lot of the time he's been convinced he'd be a *better* King than Thor and that was his justification for everything (although Ragnarok proved he'd waste that opportunity). He wanted to fight against Ragnarok until Thor realised he had to let Surtur destroy Asgard to destroy Hela. I don't think hurting people is Loki's primary goal, (he'd rather they just do what he said with no argument) but I do think he has enjoyed it sometimes. He was relishing the pain he was causing in Avengers, emotional, physical and forcing people to do his bidding. Loki was originally alone and miserable because HE deliberately started an invasion of a planet Thor loved for the sole purpose of upsetting him, working with Thanos was a by product of that. If he hadn't been trying to escape justice for murdering hundreds of thousands in the BONY then he wouldn't have been a variant in the first place. The TVA is horrific and is/was definitely using him for their own ends and wanted him to feel like he had no place else to go but work for them or get "reset" but the circumstances of him ending up there are on him. In the "sacred timeline" he basically starts complaining about his punishment and his consequences (Frigga etc) happen more to other people. I am glad that Loki is admitting that he is the architect of his own misery and having to do things like watch his own life is a fairly devastating consequence.

I was wondering that. The end of ep 2 was "OMG the timeline has been completely bombed!" and we saw dozens of branches happening and then nothing. I guess the "minutemen" we see being called at the beginning of ep 3 got everything under control. But it was set up as a huge thing she was planning with the reset bombs. In the same way C-20 giving Sylvie directions to the Time-Keepers didn't matter either.

It will be interesting to hear her explanation next ep. Since she has worked her way up she clearly isn't the one ultimately in charge (I'd say that was going to be another Loki but the TVA clearly isn't his/her style) and might not even have known the Time-Keepers were fakes. She was the only one we've seen interacting with them early in the ep where there was no need for a visit if she was aware they were fake. I think she'll probably come out of this heavily morally grey like almost everyone else but not completely evil. More like a true believer and the ends justify the means to keep the sacred timeline safe if anything. I really hope Loki/Sylvie isn't happening but I assumed it was once Loki was cut off in his big confession. It does seem to be popular in a certain type of time travel/alternate universe fiction but not as the main romance - e.g Henry as a teen in the Time Travellers' Wife "before I worked up the courage to talk to girls". Maybe they're going with the fact that they're so different and/or branched off so long ago/nexus event it's just like dating someone who really gets you but isn't actually "you".

She wasn't in Ragnarok because Jaimie Alexander had a schedule conflict IIRC and thus probably wasn't killed in Ragnarok. She's going to be in the next Thor movie apparently.

Well, that happened. Little Loki was so cute. Not that this is new but wow the TVA don't make any distinction between someone who's deliberately causing mayhem and a kid who's a variant by accident. I imagine that and growing up at the end of 1000 worlds hasn't done much for Sylvie's sanity so I'm actually impressed she's as together as she appears to be. Ravonna was ice cold in not even saying what was so important they had to "prune" a child. If she really doesn't remember that's worse because minor infractions get you just as reset as apocalypses. So they actually went there and started explicitly talking about a romantic relationship/feelings between Lokis on screen and Mobius mentioned the incredible narcissism in that. I wasn't particularly surprised after the looks as Lamentis was about to end but I'm surprised it was explicitly referenced so soon, I thought there'd be a bit more subtlety than that for a few episodes at least. The end of Lamentis also reminded me of Jyn and Cassian at the end of Rogue One, not to mention still borrowing heavily from Doctor Who, I was getting extremely strong Tenth Doctor Era vibes especially with the music. "Now I've got to have a Prince tell me how the real world works?!" That was a good one Mobius. Owen Wilson is really good in this role, he puts a lot of layers into what could be a fairly one note straight character. But you can see the difference between Mobius when he's 100% believing in his mission, Mobius lying to Loki and Mobius lying to himself without changing much. Then there's the obvious parts where he's trying to be subtle but signalling with neon lights to Ravonna. He realised he probably had a Jet Ski, this show *really* doesn't like to be subtle do they? Calling out absolutely everything they set up as explicitly as possible. I'm not complaining, just noting. Clearly he's not dead but probably gone for some rebrainwashing. I'm also glad we got a little more B-15 and she sure changed her tune quick the second she realised something was up. I'm also glad that we got to see more of Ravonna and Gugu Mbatha-Raw and yep she's up to her neck in what the TVA is doing and not a dupe like most working there. Mind you, with those (fake) bosses...... I'm glad that there's more to "who runs the TVA and controls the time line" than three evil lizards. It would have been way too straight forward for a Loki show but as I said, this show really doesn't do subtle. I hope that Slyvie's plan and the rest of the Lokis are actually more twisty than the standard sci-fi "destroy the Time-keepers/Lords/Masters and give everyone back free will". Lady Sif! I liked that Loki referenced "bad memory prison" as a trope but it still got to him. Richard E Grant! This is going to be good.

I just watched this one today. I've been doing a very random Voyager binge watch on Netflix. I don't think I've really seen it more than one random ep here and there since I was a kid and it came on before Buffy in the UK. Sue me, it's addictive despite it's flaws. I really enjoyed the premise of aliens grappling with the fact that they came from Earth and how that knocks their religious, cultural and political beliefs on their axis. I liked the bit about "updated doctrines" which clearly happened here on Earth in the uneasy relationship between scientific discovery and religion along with everything else. I thought the Voth reminded me a bit of Doctor Who's Silurians. It's also one without an easy ending. In general whilst there is potential for more Starfleet vs Maquis way of getting home I'm not altogether sorry that there wasn't much. SGU had way too much petty squabbling about who controlled Destiny and it made *everyone* unlikable, pretty and most of all boring to me. Chakotay was very, very chill about Tuvok writing a training program and (logically) pegging him as the one that would start a coup and the whole crew thought it was a great game. Good ep but zero people felt any weirdness about the scenario that could have played out.

I think it's set in vaguely Wes Anderson year more than anything else. With a hint of a Series of Unfortunate Events. I quite liked it. The kids are all pretty likable and I'm willing to give it a chance to unfold.

I get why JP thought he deserved at least a courtesy call I really do and I would agree to a certain extent, but it still doesn't justify a public tantrum and "Et Tu, Brute?!" at RT comes across as both stupid and entitled. He knew that JA was looking into developing other SPN stuff, okay it came as a shock it got this far without him knowing but that's the sort of thing you work out in private not by having a twitter blow out and then coming back the next day thanking people "for the love" but #bekind to everyone. Especially when you already have another successful show on the network and are busy with that. I do wonder if this is partly about wanting a producers credit.

I did wonder that. But a Loki also spent his time "ruling" Asgard lounging around, being a lazy, greedy King who just watched obviously fake plays about himself letting the Nine Realms "fall into chaos" rather than trying to rule for any bigger plan.

Coming out is not completely uncommon on TV/movies these days and you sometimes get a "Bi The Way" casual come out but that can still be very awkward or feel tacked on and unearned. (Teddy on Grey's I'm looking at you). I think they did this just right.

It was exactly like a DW episode. They filmed it in a quarry and put an "alien" filter over it. Not to mention imminent death and a terrible plan for escaping it. My subtitles had "singing in Asgardian" so I assumed it was made up. Not that I know Norwegian to check either. Maybe the guards had been promised seats on the Ark and two extra passengers would get some of them kicked off? IDK, usually the rich people have already scarpered by this point if they can so it didn't necessarily make sense to have less than 12 hours to the apocalypse and still have society in place anyway with an uninterrupted first class journey before Loki made an ass of himself.

I don't think The Jar was ever going to stand the test of time, especially once Arrow finished. Just out of curiosity I wonder if he and Emily are still friends or if that's gone by the way side after everything last year as well. Of course Aisha and Carina were part of a LOT of stupidity with him last year. I also think it's hilarious/annoying that on several of the gossip sites I've checked for the news there are comments about "batshit crazy Olicities who hates his wife and forced the writers to change the love story of the entire show". Not sure what that had to do with an article about him having a row with his wife but hey, we're famous for "forcing" the writers to write Olicity. Because we all loved 4B right? ;)

From their own SM he and his wife seem to be in the habit of disagreeing with each other and drinking heavily. Those two things don't mix well on a plane. It must have been loud/aggressive for him to get escorted off. This isn't really the press he needs with a new show coming soon.

I liked that. It was good to get an ep with both Lokis together. I thought they did have chemistry together but I'm not sure about how I feel about "Sylvie" on her own. I kind of wish they'd cast GuGu Mbatha-Raw as Sylvie because she's being a bit wasted, although I think will Di Martino grow on me more. No one should ever set up shop in a place called Lamentis for goodness sake, it's bound to go wrong. I noticed half the people in the crowd scenes had masks, obviously to protect themselves from apocalyptic ash as well as covid. I loved the train scenes, it's Loki's turn to get in an adoption quip, which was fun. The Lokis talking about Frigga was great and TH always infuses that with a lot of layers. Love is hate. And also "love is....something I have to have a drink to think about" "Love is a dagger." They're not the most profound or surprising ways of putting it but it seems to define a lot of Loki's interactions with people. Canonical bisexual (or pansexual perhaps) character! As well as genderfluid of course. Loki getting drunk and singing in Asguardian was perfect as was Slyvie's reaction to it. They had the maudlin song sandwiched between the funny songs fit in pretty naturally there. I did miss Mobius, Owen Wilson is very hit and miss for me but I thought he did great as the straight man with TH. Yeah the Lizards who rule the universe are actually shady! Big surprise. I feel like it would be more of a twist if they were actually trying their best and that was them being "kind" to variants. We obviously don't have a handle on Sylvie's plan but whilst it's against the Time-Keepers I doubt it's going to be altruistic and beneficial for most people except her. But as with "our" Loki they'll be just enough there to have her mischief again another day. And she was always a variant from very young? This was easier to keep a handle on before the "sacred timeline" stuff, you could just say "alternate timeline/multiverse" and now the multiverse is just the different dimensions from Doctor Strange.

It was...okay. The premise is definitely interesting but they went about it in the most straightforward, cliche ridden way possible. Sarah is fine but didn't particularly stand out for me, you standard TV do gooder rebel with a heart of gold and the rest of the characters have even less to them. I realise this was only a pilot but the only thing I'm interested in is the independence storyline but none of the characters. The river was a good way of coming up with the reason Greylock was never part of the US or Canada, albeit extremely convenient that the entire town was in the loophole, but surely it would be more complicated than just holding a quick local referendum? Whilst obviously it was the premise of the show I'm surprised that so many residents decided to go for independence from the US with one speech. It's a pretty huge deal and it's not like they'd had decades or centuries of considering themselves different to other places in NH ala Scotland, Catalonia, Quebec etc. I guess the fact that they haven't thought it through is going to be what the series is about. And the US government isn't going to be happy about an entire town sort-of-seceding, clearly as she got arrested. Oh and she had the poster of (Patty Hearst was it?) with a gun that the camera lingered on. Especially with a billion dollars worth of coltan still to be mined. And if they want to make agreements and treaties with the US or Canada the residents are going to have to think about mining it themselves which is going to defeat the purpose of the declaration. There was no "wow, go girl, stand up to blackmail, do right by your kids" that there should have been in the mother admitting her drunk driving, abusive mom past because she'd been in one scene (drunk) before then and she isn't even a character yet. Danny and Corinne....I take it he didn't know about the kid before? Oh joy, I love a secret kid storyline /S I guess he's another that's supposed to be an ass who turns out to be just a damaged guy with a heart of gold. The teens were all cliche. The standard arsehole Jock/popular cool girl/cool, mysterious outsider meh. Of course each discovers that they love the other's "surprising" thing. Maya and her dad might go somewhere but he shone more in his scenes with Sarah.

I think Original Loki still died in 2018 or whatever it was supposed to be when Thanos killed him. Varient!Loki not getting taken back to Asgard and setting him on the Dead Mother! revenge/redemption path means he's surplus to requirements. Everything else is supposed to be handwaved because the Avengers were "supposed" to do whatever they actually did in Endgame.

I also thought of PTerry's Auditors of Reality. I think the TVA will get pretty dark, the seem to have nothing particularly positive about them beyond what they claim is The Sacred Timeline, they're literally police, judge, jury and executioners. Or their masters are. I guess that any other thing can now be handwaved as "supposed to happen" including Wanda's grief creating the Hex and a new Vision being out and about and Gamora comes under "Avengers were supposed to do this". How that pertains to DSMOM and the chaos that will definitely cause is another matter. It's not alternative timelines but different realities and dimensions coming in to play seems like it could cause a multiverse war. Of course the TVA might have gone bye bye like the Time Lords/Time Masters etc by then.

Giant Space Lizards really do rule the world! The universe even, I knew it! I enjoyed it. Even though I've been watching Doctor Who since I was a kid Timey Wimey stuff still makes my head hurt so I'm trying to go with it. "The Sacred Timeline" and "The Avengers were always supposed to do what they did." Well that's one way of justifying the mess that was the time travel in Endgame. So I guess they've made the multiverse and different dimensions a completely separate concept to alternate timelines in the MCU. Got it. It varies in sci-fi. It's always nice to see Gugu M-R she's a fantastic actress. I liked Owen Wilson here although he's often hit and miss or me. I liked the 70s vibe of the TVA. They get a lot of Infinity Stones and some guys use them as paper weights. I guess we've seen that they do cause a lot of split timelines. Loki was DB Cooper because he lost a bet to Thor, that makes sense in Thor's less responsible douche bro days. That was a fun sequence. The MCU continues to use Thor:TDW better in flashbacks and reimaginings than they did the actual film (and I'm one of the crazy ones that doesn't hate it). It was poignant to see Loki get told he was the reason Frigga was murdered. Also quite dark was the fact that Mobius told him that his purpose was to cause pain and chaos so others could become their best selves. Hmm, I don't like the seeming 100% absence of freewill in this scenario but I suppose the whole series is going to explore free will verse "destined" and how much free will any of us have anyway. And it's a bleak thing for Loki to be told. Loki crying at his dead parents was quite effective despite all the continuous BS he put them and Thor through and it was nice to see Thor's love for him in the "This is Your Life" reel. And then seeing his own death...but he knew he was going to die for standing up to Thanos and still did it. But this Loki can't possibly know that. That or he didn't realise declaring himself "Odinson" was a neon flashing light of his intentions. Not entirely sure he didn't enjoy hurting people but it makes sense that it was more about control than actual just getting off on it sadism, although things like Coulson and setting people on fire does leave a lot of debate about that. I expected the twist at the end but I'm interested to see how it plays out.

Jumping in to this thread really late, I've just watched the first three episodes of this and it's.....interesting. Not as goofy and campy as I wanted it to be given the premise and it's dragging a bit in the 3rd ep with a hell of a lot of talking and hanging around but not in an interesting way. I like the nuns with speaking parts okay and the Father who's helping them but Ava's still a bit of a cipher to me, despite having *aaallllll* the tragic backstory. I kind of resent spending so much time with her new "outlaw" beautiful people friends. She didn't even question why she was walking much. And I really don't love her VO. I haven read any spoilers but are the tech company and the Cardinal going to be together? It's either an evil tech company or evil high up Vatican guy in these things. Or both as I said. Of course their headquarters is a dimly lit old church with a million votive candles! I might as well keep watching

I was referring to Lauriver on Arrow. They'd already had their other big comic canon OTP crash so hard they needed to restart with a completely new relationship because a lot of people couldn't get passed the sister swapping. Why add a weird wrinkle to their new relationship? I think having Joe as his guardian for over a decade and THEN pushing so hard on Barry/Joe father-son dynamic in the back half of S1 through a lot of S2 and beyond which is a lot of what people remember when thinking about them, does just make some people raise an eyebrow, even if you accept that best friends/baby love overruled being raised together from puberty. It's not a big deal at this point but it was a needless detail is what I'm getting at. I like WA and I think they have chemistry which overcomes a lot of the poor writing choices and I love JPK as their daughter and hope to enjoy their son.