statsgirl

I think it's easier to move a character from a 'neutral/annoyed with' position to 'like' than to move someone who is hated. Season 2 did Laurel no favors; while her fans say she was an addict and shouldn't be blamed for what she did, throwing the wine glass when she found out Sara was alive is a tough image to forget. SA tends to give interviews based on what has been aired so far, so he wouldn't "know" what Felicity says in 3x12. It made sense to me because Oliver has always had blinkers on for what he didn't want to see. Much easier to believe that he will come back and they will hash it out then than to do it immediately before he had to leave to meet Ra's.

Not originally. He had to lose both his legs saving someone to be a liked character. Maybe they could try that for Laurel, instead of having both Tommy and Sara (two characters more liked than she is) die for her. I disagree with that TV Guide list. I always liked Callie, even when she was being thrown under the bus to prop other characters (George, Arizona). I think there is a substantial pro-Edith audience with Downton Abbey (ref the posts here at previously.tv). It's Mary I can't stand, and just when I started to like her a bit when she was married to Matthew, she's now back to being a major bitch to Edith). She's another character that the show's creator/writer adores, like Laurel and Katrina, while Edith is a pre-ball Cinderella. I think for a previously disliked character to be liked, they have to do something noble and self-sacrificing. Laurel learning to box so she can feel better when she beats up other people isn't going to do it.

Katrina Law came in 8th place. (Still wondering at Zoie Palmer coming in third.) Arrow also won Best Action or Drama Program, Oliver/Felicity Best Couple, and EBR best guest star for The Flash. A lot of Arrow fans there.

Technically, the trilogy is Brick's; Laurel has a four part arc when you include the next episode "Canaries",

310, I think. One of the early efforts to get us to watch Oliver-less episodes. Soap opera characters do it all the time but they have a over 200 hours more per season to make it work. I can't think of drama show character, maybe Ray on ER? I think it's always a problem when the EPs of a show love a character more than the audience does. But Laurel is still better loved than Katrina on Sleepy Hollow, and unlike Sleepy Hollow (where Katrina seems to be tanking both Ichabod and the show), there is still lots more going on with Arrow than just Laurel. MG seems to be aware of the problems, hence 'Laurel won't be a perfect Black Canary yet' stuff. We'll see if having her on a learning curve, albeit speed-of-light, makes a difference. If nothing else, these next episodes will show us if it is just that Laurel wasn't wearing leather and fishnets yet, or if it's the character. ETA LOL at how much p.r. they've got SA doing now so that people will still tune in. More even than at the start of the season. So no Lazarus Pit? And Roy gets more mention than Laurel at TV Line.

For them to cut her loose they would have to 1. admit they were wrong in both the actress and the writing; and 2. be willing to piss off all the Laurel/KC fans who have been hanging in since the pilot episode to see her as the Black Canary. Still, it might be interesting to see how the episodes do (especially 311 since Oliver is rumored to be back in 312 and people will tune in for that), and how reviewers feel about them.

I'm going to watch because it's been a long wait, and because how they handle Felicity and Diggle will determine whether I watch 311- 313.

I can't imagine Laurel knowing that Felicity is the woman Oliver loves and not resenting it. Even if KC is saying that that's not where Laurel's head is at right now, she's always been possessive of her things.

It may be just the angle and Felicity was there all along. I have to see the whole clip, and I know that we're supposed to get "Laurel is strong and kind giving Felicity support, but does Laurel have any idea of why Oliver is gone and where? Unless she does, it just comes out as Laurel Clueless again. Not necessarily. Felicity is a woman and Laurel knows she cried when Sara died.

Yeah, I'm still hoping that Felicity is mad at other people (Ray, please?) and not Oliver. Laurel does think she's Sara. That's a big part of the problem, she's isn't. Maybe Slade is as smart as Natalie Abrams and figures out that Oliver just sacrificed Felicity so he could save Laurel. I'd love to see Slade take Laurel and Laurel try to fight him back. Slade would be laughing so hard... Chase as Slade's son makes sense, but I really don't want any other reason to have that greasy douche on screen. You're right. I shouldn't try to think before coffee.

MG and AK said that Berlanti is always telling them "Why save that story for later? Do it now!" so I guess he's the one to blame.

Thanks for all these quotes, tv echo. (It saves me from having to read Guggenheim's social media.)

After that TCA panel debacle, I wonder who Arrow is going to bring to the Paley one. I don't know if it's what she wanted, but she got her name in the NY Post and US Weekly, something that wouldn't have happened otherwise. I think CW/WB is happy for the promotion of the show.

I think not only Felicity being "mad as hell" at Oliver, the audience would be mad as hell at the show. To make us go through the emotions and mourning of characters like Diggle and Felicity, only to be told "Ha, ha, fooled 'ya" would be rage inducing. Does Thea have friends? With Sin gone, there's only Roy. If Ra's didn't care about Sara, I doubt he cares two hoots about Thea. And while I can see him joining forces with Oliver to bring down Merlyn, the whole Ra's vs Oliver started with Oliver refusing to let Ra's kill Merlyn so I doubt Ra's would trust Oliver now. But absolutely Felicity would be furious if Oliver can back as a member of the LoA. But I think that's going to be explored later in The Offer. Of course. Felicity has taken so much from Laurel, leading lady status as well as Oliver, they want her to acknowledge that Laurel is the superior being. I've always like Robert Dougherty's take on Arrow. I hope those things happen.

I think Arrow and Chuck are alike in using the same tropes, like Shaw/Palmer, and having a nerdy computer genius but mostly different otherwise.

I've always thought that 'A' list means a picture can get made just from having your name attached to it. B-list is the general public having instant recognition of your name and the chance to be up for an award. Of all the actors on Arrow, I think only Barrowman has a crack at being B list, and Victor Garber, Jesse Martin and Tom Cavanaugh on The Flash. I'd say Stephen Amell is C-list now that he's known for Arrow, and Paul Blackthorne who had his own show in the Dresden Files. Everyone else I'd say is D-list, but maybe the NY Post thought that was too cruel.

This is the problem we had with Laurel when Sara returned -- she was mad and she threw her glass at the door. She did have reason to be mad but she should have been crazy happy first. And if Felicity is thinking that Oliver is dead, when he first gets back, she does need to be really happy at first before all the abandonment issues comes up, and acknowledge that he felt he had no choice. And really, I think BkWurm1's story, that she's mad at him because of all the time he wasted by pushing her away, makes the most sense. But that doesn't translate into a "mad as hell" reaction. I like jbuffyangel's blog but I disagree with the intensity of her reading of their relationship. The Ring is here.

It's hard to see why Felicity would be "mad as hell" at Oliver when he returns .... unless he agrees with Laurel and Roy to team up with Malcolm. I was mad as hell at Oliver myself in the Magician when he agree to protect Malcolm and I didn't even know about Thea killing Sara then. Thinking on John Barrowman's remarks that Malcolm loves Oliver more than he loved Tommy, it's a strange kind of love that sets you up to be killed in his place. Right now, I can't imagine a dynamic between Oliver and Malcolm that I would buy other than "I'm doing to make sure you never hurt anyone else again".

One of the things I like about Felicity is how she sticks to her guns once she's made a decision (unless there's a very good reason for changing, of course, which is also a leadership quality). In Sara, when she found out Ray had bought Tech Village so that she was working for him, she quit on the spot. In the Climb, she went into Ray's office (now her boss) and told him that if he didn't tell her the real story behind why he bought QC, she was walking out. He said "I can't tell you", and she turned around a started to walk out unlike he said "i have to show you".,

My daughter had a Monday night class last term and couldn't watch Sleepy Hollow with me so this was her first episode this season, and she was surprised how much less interesting it's got. In the scene with Abby and Jenny, she said about Abby "She's like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, smart, snarky and just rolling her eyes at the craziness", where as the Ichabod/Katrina scenes were just... bland, maybe because Katrina herself is bland and Icahbod (like Giles) needs someone sparky to play off of. At the end when Icahabod left Abby to go to Jenny (ah, metaphor!), my daughter said "I hope they break up now" (after watching just one episode of them) but alas! it was not to be.

TanyaKay, I think I love you for that post. It's been true forever, and is still true in business. The latest research says that a committee has to be composed of 60% women and 40% men before the men will start listening to what a woman is actually saying. Moving the "is Felicity a leader" comments from the spoiler thread: Curiously, my Linked In network sent me a couple of articles on what makes a successful manager type today. , Perfect timing to see if Felicity can be a leader: 1. High EQ (much higher than Oliver's, possibly higher than Diggle's) 2. Communication skills (for all that she babbles when she's nervous, she's the one most able to understand and be understood) 3. Decision making (as mentioned above, she rebuilt the lair between s1 and s2, she decided that Barry could save Oliver so they had to tell him, she told Roy had to disarm the bomb in 301, she moved out of the lair when Oliver was stuck in it in 302, she told Caitlin and Cisco they had to help Barry in the field, she told Lance he should be helping the Arrow not hunting him 4 Integrity (incredibly so) 5. Drive (she pushes Oliver when he needs to be pushed, she can't stand mysteries, she built her life outside the lair) 6. Focus (you don't get an MSc from MIT without focus) 7. Balance (not so good on this one but better than Oliver or Roy; Diggle has the best balance) 9. Conflict Resolution (she tried to get Diggle and Oliver to stop fighting in s1, she's the one who manages conflicts when Oliver goes off) We tend to think of leadership skills as the sergeant yelling orders at the troop but often that's just bullying, not leadership. Felicity hasn't had much chance to show leadership in the obvious ways because she's not a team leader or administrator at work, she's an IT specialist and often they work alone, and in the Arrow cave, Oliver and Diggle make the field decisions because they have the experience. But when things fall apart, Felicity puts them back together and that's leadership.

Good point. In my field, having an MSc implied having the credentials to lead a team. We don't get an extra Masters degree unless you want to change fields. I really really hope it's the loonies who want to join forces with Malcolm that she's mad at.

Like Steve Jobs when he started his company? Some people have an MBA, some people have the skills without the paper. (My brother has an MBA and so far, it hasn't made him any smarter or grounded in reality or able to lead people) Felicity has an IT VP position. An MBA would just be a lot of useless stuff she wouldn't use in her division. We know Oliver didn't have an MBA and I doubt Moira had one either and she ran QC for years. In the academic and medical world, PhD's and MD run large organizations with less organizational or people skills than Felicity has.

So Laurel gets involved because Brick is destroying evidence? At least that's a reason for her to go to Team Arrow for help, if not a reason for her to suit up. I try to say I'm going to withhold judgement on Laurel, and then there's a scene like that where she's so smug and arch, and I just can't help disliking her. It's not just the writing because there are more ways to play it. Laurel keeps getting disillusioned with the law, and then going back into it, because it seems like they still don't know what to do with her.

I think Shaw was the last obstacle because it was a stoyline so many people hated and since the show was in danger of being cancelled, I suspect the EPs decided to put Chuck and Sarah together soon rather than not having the chance to do it at all. Arrow, on the other hand, has been told they have a season 4.