BabySpinach

I've always gotten the impression that demon deals went beyond the scope of what demons could regularly do, maybe because of the human soul powering it. Deals can also imbue someone with prodigious talent/wealth/looks/health/whatever, which is not in the typical demon's repertoire.

I like that he's got an interesting, distinctive face and that he's not yet another mid-20s, bland, pretty CW type. We've got more than enough of those already.

Full season 13 gag reel! I didn't realize until now how much I missed Jensen's face.

Dabb basically called Michael!Dean the Big Bad of the season. Not Michael, but Michael!Dean, since he's talking about Jensen being different from the other actors who've played Big Bads. It feels as if he's talking about the long term, unless having just one/two episodes without Dean is such an ordeal that he has to publicly lament it. I'm still cautiously intrigued.

Oh wow, those titles actually sound serious and "epic". An episode literally titled Nihilism? Ha, sign me up. Damaged Goods and The Spear are also pretty intriguing. I wonder if Byzantium refers to Michael's growing followers.

I agree, Michael's future interaction with Sam that somehow doesn't turn the latter into a smear on the wall is the point of contention. Either they weaken/neutralize Michael within Dean, or there's some contrived reason that Michael in a lesser vessel can't/won't kill Sam.

But I wonder why Michael in another vessel would be less dangerous to Sam, since he's still an archangel. Dabb's comment that Dean!Michael and Sam's interaction would only end one way also applies to regular Michael as well. I feel as if Michael is neutralized somehow to make it safer for Sam to interact with him. That's admittedly an optimistic way to look at it. Cockeyed? That's a new one.... So we're thinking that Michael hopping into another, lesser vessel makes a huge enough difference that Sam can now interact with him without it ending that "one way"?

WAT. So Dean is confirmed to be back by episode 3/4, but there's going to be more Michael/Sam interaction beyond that? And flashbacks as well? WAT. I'm starting to think (and, dare I say, hope!) that Michael is not cast out of Dean, and that Sam and co. only manage to neutralize him somehow. Why must you give me hope when I've almost completely resigned myself to the sanctuary of bitter pessimism?! Thanks, I guess???? lol

In this episode, Gabriel became what Charlie was/is: taken for granted by the writers as a "fan favorite" and therefore given free license to be as self-absorbed, entitled, and unrepentant as possible without any recrimination from the narrative or other characters. Their quirky one-liners are expected to smooth over any unsympathetic behavior in the eyes of the viewers, and it seems to mostly work! The first in his "greatest hits" for this episode is him crashing in on Sam and Dean, severely wounded, taking it for granted that they'll help him even after he ran out on them. He then leads two demigods to their doorstep because of his revenge mission, nearly getting the brothers killed. Afterwards, he's totally prepared to leave them again, without even an apology, once he finds out that there's no extra grace for him. His entire revenge mission was a self-indulgent waste of time that served nothing. At least when Sam and/or Dean got revenge, they were killing dangerous people who regularly hurt innocents. The Norse gods here were just minding their own business as far as we knew. Gabriel's demand that they go in order of his Kill List and that he be the one to end Loki personally was nothing but pointless crap that no one called him out on. He played like a fan-fiction self-insert, with the actual protagonists of the show trailing a couple steps behind him and bending to his every whim. Dean was the only one allowed to raise a reasonable complaint or objection, and even he got mowed down by the force of Gabriel's ego and writers' favoritism. He wasn't allowed the extremely obvious retort of his thirty years in Hell when Gabriel was complaining about his seven. Dean may have said that this whole thing was "so stupid," but he still had to play along. If either of the brothers in the past had demanded that their revenge fantasies be obeyed down to the letter for no tangible reason, they also would have come across as entitled jackasses. This episode as a whole felt like an irritating waste of time, especially for so late in the season. PS. Gabriel calling Sam a "pretty face" felt so goddamn awkward. Sam/Jared is not "pretty," as his features are neither delicate or feminine. Handsomeness is another, more subjective thing that I won't get into right now. What made it sillier was that a closer representation of "prettiness" was literally sitting right there in the room with them. It was just more Sabriel pandering, much like Sam's heartfelt speech in 13.18 that was drawn straight from fan-fiction rather than any established canon relationship. So I prefer to interpret Gabriel's comment as heavy sarcasm and condescension instead, lol.

If you're going to bring in stuff that Dean did as a demon, then it's only fair to bring in Soulless!Sam's misdeeds, too. I personally didn't mention the times when either brother was under some sort of supernatural influence that fundamentally changed their personalities, because I was focused on them acting as themselves. There's still no equivalency for Sam mocking Dean's 40 years of hell trauma and calling him weak and whiny. The worst thing that Dean arguably has said to Sam, "I think it should be you up there instead of [Charlie]," came from a place of grief and anger and was a harsh expression of Dean's desire for Sam to personally pay for his own mistake rather than have someone else take the fall. The Mark of Cain was in play, too. Sam had no supernatural excuse when he said those things in 9.13, which were roughly on par with the things that Demon!Dean said in 10.03. Dean stating to Sam that he was in charge was not an emotional attack on Sam, and once again was partially influenced by the MoC. Sam could have easily argued with him, but he decided to say nothing and go back to his room. Dean's omissions or lies in the latter part of season 9 were, in my opinion, justified. Sam had just disowned him and verbally torn him down;, why would Dean ever want to open up to or confide in Sam at that point? I did totally forget about Amy Pond, though. I just saw that as Dean cleaning up Sam's ill judgement, but yeah, THAT was the first time he betrayed Sam's trust, not Gadreel.

@AwesomO4000 The difference between Sam's anger in season 9 and Dean's anger in season 5 is that the latter reacted in a realistic and sympathetic way, while the former went way off the deep end in terms of cruelty. In 5.01, right in the aftermath of Sam's screw-up, Dean primarily talked about how Sam's betrayal affected him and how he felt about it. He expressed that he couldn't trust Sam, but he also didn't drag his brother's character or self worth through the mud. And Dean's anger was both justified and in proportion to the scope of Sam's various misdeeds, especially in regards to the awful way he treated Dean all throughout season 4. So I felt that Dean was justified in holding onto his anger, though it wasn't even for that long. In season 9, Sam's anger over a much more well-intentioned and less serious screw-up on Dean's part was way overblown and unsympathetic. So it felt justified that Sam's anger was framed to be wrong, though I wouldn't even necessarily agree that that was the case. The Ghostfacers ep unequivocally took Sam's side via clumsy anvil parallels, for instance. With the way it was written, I was fine with Sam coming around and admitting that he'd lied. In fact, he should have also taken back all those other awful things he said to Dean, but he never did. We're basically talking about these characters on two fronts: as if they were real people whose actions we criticize, and as if they're written constructs at the mercy of their creators. I 100% agree that Sam should not have been written to be so cruel in the first place. But since he was, he then should have been framed as wrong in acting that way. Dean's anger in season 5 was leagues milder in comparison, and it was over something way worse than lying about angel possession in order to keep someone alive. Our main gripe, and our point of agreement, it seems, is that Sam got screwed over by the writers in seasons 8 and 9 and became an unsympathetic ass whose legitimate reasons for anger got buried under exaggerated dickishness.

Dean's love for Sam being labelled as selfish has always annoyed me. The lengths he'd go to for Sam are certainly unhealthy and worrying, but his love for him is the very opposite of selfish. Dean has always been open to Sam building a life away from him if that made him happy, as long as Sam didn't cut off contact and treat Dean like a shameful relic of a past he'd rather forget, run away without confirming Dean's death, or leave an innocent kid twisting in the wind. The fact that he was willing to only live another year proves how it was more about Sam being alive than Dean being without his brother back in season 2. It's definitely more of a parent's mindset than a sibling's, thanks mostly to John's *stellar* job in raising Dean. And who would ever call a parent selfish and terrible for doing everything in their power to save their child?

I like how Sam, after he's said and done much worse to Dean for much less sympathetic reasons, found it justifiable to disown Dean after he betrayed his trust, FOR THE FIRST TIME, out of desperation and love. Sam demanded that he let go of his anger over being abandoned in Purgatory, yet he couldn't let go of Dean lying to save him. If this was all it took for Sam to disown and verbally decimate his brother, lord knows how he would have reacted if Dean had been the one drinking demon blood and lying about it, banging a demon, mocking Sam for being weak and inadequate after 40 years in hell, choking him half to death, or abandoning him (plus an innocent civilian) without ever confirming his death. I still can't believe how far they threw Sam's character down the toilet in season 9. He could have been mad about Gadreel like a regular person and struggled to get past it without dunking his brother's life purpose and self esteem into the garbage, then waffling non-stop about how he WANTED TO DIEEEEE (even though we were shown that he clearly didn't). First Born 10.11 seemed to set him on a more sympathetic course, but I guess Robbie Thompson hadn't gotten the memo to make Sam as cartoonishly dickish and nonsensically petty as possible. Dean fans had to watch their favorite character get verbally demolished by the person he loved most in the world. Sam fans had to watch their favorite character act like a complete asshole without rhyme or reason. Everyone lost on that count, and

SKINNY JEANS.

I think that was from season 8. Here's the 2018 version of that Eyebrow Thing (!)

The fact that pretty much the entire cast (past and present) are here for a YouTube parody video is mindblowing. And of course, Hillywood's attention to detail in recreating scenes of the show is amazing as always.

I let Jody slide on her disregarding of Dean's valid advice because I really enjoyed all her previous appearances. It annoyed me, but I won't be too bothered unless it becomes a pattern. I definitely don't want her to be the new sage who is always framed to be right no matter what.

One of the reasons I really like Donna and Jody is that they fit well into the existing SPN world. They have jobs that would prepare them for hunting more than the average civilian. They work WITH the boys rather than upstage them. Jody has been a much better mom than Mary in that she validates Dean's feelings and offers unconditional comfort and a listening ear. Donna thanks Sam and Dean for their help and has an overall likable and humble attitude toward them because they're obviously bigger experts in hunting than she is (or was). They feel like real people who aren't written to appeal to a specific demographic or to fulfill a checklist of traits for maximum marketability. I can't say the same for their gang of attractive teens. I probably like Alex the best because she's more low-key and less in-your-face "look how awesome/cute/sympathetic I am," despite her exceedingly tragic and traumatic past. Incidentally, she's also the only one of them with an anchoring job (nurse) within the community.

And... AND! It was Dean rather than Michael who got to show off his plumage! Our Dean, fluffing himself up for battle with an goddamn archangel just acting as his battery! <3

My personal highlight since maybe season 11 is Dean stating his status as the Michael Sword. "I am your sword. Your perfect vessel. With me, you'd be stronger than you've ever been." Words cannot describe how pumped I was to hear Dean say it! YASSSSSSSSSSSS

It makes me think of one of Pixar's writing rules: a character who tries is much more sympathetic than a character who succeeds. I have a feeling that Robbie had Charlie's entire "growth" from geeky hacker to badass warrior all planned out in his head. He was probably gleeful at how well he was "developing" her. Only, he lost sight of any self-awareness and restraint along the way. It's a shame that Charlie was such a massive blindspot for him, because he typically wrote very witty and charming (or just plain awesome) episodes outside of her. I grudgingly find 10.05 Fan Fiction tolerable and even somewhat endearing in spite of its stupid premise and privileged teenaged schoolgirls representing the fanbase, and that's entirely because Robbie knows how to be likable. He just went into overdrive with Charlie and made her suck.

I think that Charlie was a big contributor to the cheapening of the hunting life. She just picks it up like a fun hobby and wishes that it were more "magical". *barf* Then she gets what she wants, as usual. She uses a goddamn app to identify the monster. She suddenly knows how to shoot a gun perfectly in 8.20, despite her initial characterization being a nerdy hacker (it's like if Jody suddenly became a tech geek). Charlie then comes back with super kung-fu in 10.11 and can hold her own against Dean (at least until he gives up holding back). Then in 10.18, guess what, she can now use a samurai sword, too! Sam and Dean grew up learning how to shoot and fight, but Charlie just breezed past it all without any of the scars or baggage. I feel as if her death was really the brutality of the SPN world finally catching up to her. She'd existed in this quirky little fantasy bubble, comfortably isolated from the real themes and tone of the show, until she got involved in the mytharc. Her grisly death scene in the bathtub is what would have realistically happened to her within her first appearance, if she hadn't been Robbie Thompson's little pet. Her death was still incredibly stupid and contrived, but it actually felt like part of the SPN reality.

Replied in Unpopular Opinions.

Well it was mostly a joke.... I think we all appreciate that this show has plenty of logic holes. Biggest one for me is that they summoned fucking Lucifer from the cage instead of Michael to help fight the Darkness. And lack of "end game" applies to most big choices that the characters have made. Except Dean with the Mark didn't even endanger the world like others have as a result of those choices. ETA: At least Dean HAD a contingency plan once he knew what the Mark was doing to him. What did Cas plan to do after he swallowed all the Purgatory souls and exploded Raphael? What did Sam plan to do about the Darkness that he knew was going to be unleashed after the MoC removal?