kicotan

No worries! Im not offended by your comments regarding any of the present day or historical figures of the LDS and it's several currently unaffiliated branches. I'm not a member of their faith whatsoever. I think that Kody isn't very articulate or smart, but what I got from his blathering was that he feels that a prohibition on polygamy means they must live in hiding, and living in hiding makes it easier for abuses to go unreported/unnoticed/unaddressed. Sort of like when the Roman Catholic Church was finally brought to task for hiding the shuffling of pedophile priests from one parish to another, it became harder for them to engage in their pedophile activities. Either that or he's just following the production script to say outrageous things that will generate social media traffic that includes #sisterwives.

I'm not missing the point, I was disagreeing with the poster who wrote this: "It was actually started with Horny Joe (Joseph Smith) and Breed'em Young (Brigham Young). While in this thirties, he married and slept with fourteen year old girls, claiming that God commanded for those unions to take place. He slept with many women that were not his wife, and passed it off as polygamy as a way to justify this actions. Brigham Young also married teenagers. I believe some of his wives were as young as fifteen." by giving an example of a non-Mormon man, marrying a girl half his age that had just turned into a teenager the month before the wedding and everyone was just fine with it. Judging the past as appalling/disgusting/perverse by looking through the lens of today's mores is comparing apples to oranges.

The groom was actually twice her age, 26. She gave birth to their first child the following year at age 14, much to everyone's delight.

It wasn't an unusual practice in his time. Consider the year it was. Brigham Young died in 1877. The State of Pennsylvania and the Catholic Church sanctioned the marriage of my husband's maternal grandparents in 1923 and the bride had just turned 13 the month before the wedding. They were immigrants from Sicily and no one batted an eye. I know it sounds appalling going by today's standards, but to compare it to today's social construct is incongruent and possibly disingenuous.

Amen. Polygamy isn't for me, but neither is a lot of stuff that passes for socially acceptable. I think the original LDS got pressured by the Feds to give it up, under threat of having to forfeit their assets and not be given the status of a recognized religion. In return, Utah got statehood and they could enjoy their religious status and considerable church assets. That's blackmail, not the come to Jesus revelation moment that the LDS purport is the reason they gave up polygamy in this life.

I disagree. She didn't mention a breeding woman's "happiness" when she wrote this: "...We do not know that mentally retarded parents will have mentally retarded children. But we do know that mentally retarded parents cannot bring up their children in the way that will produce valuable citizens, not without a great deal more help than is often available. We do know that when a couple have produced several blind children, or several deformed children, or several mentally deficient children, they should not in the interest of themselves and in the interest of society produce any more. It is time that we as communities with a sense of responsibility for our citizens, which means ourselves, should do something about a situation. The answer to much of the problem is a program of sterilization..." -Margaret Sanger, "Sterilization: A Modern Medical Program for Human Health and Welfare," 5 Jun 1951. https://www.nyu.edu/projects/sanger/webedition/app/documents/show.php?sangerDoc=239501.xml

If eugenics is described as the science of improving a human population by controlled breeding to increase the occurrence of desirable heritable characteristics, then yes she was a eugenicist. She might not have been a racist, but she definitely believed in eugenics.

Oh she most definitely is. I'm assuming that the intense dramatic fear that they express is most likely rooted in their childhoods ~ the ones that grew up in polygamist families. That would be Meri, Christine & Robyn for sure, I don't think Kody and Janelle grew up that way, but I could be wrong. When Christine talked about her fear that her father would be arrested when she was growing up, it dawned on me that her childhood fears could be the cause of her reactions that folks interpret as overreacting. Either that, or it's all just a scripted soap opera with very little genuineness, just lots of modeling behaviors & creating drama that the producers believe will keep folks tuned in.

I'm pretty sure that the idea was put into Kody's head by the Head Honcho of the Darger Clan who started a campaign last year to run for mayor of his town. One of his opponents in the race pointed out that in order to hold office, he'd have to take an oath to uphold the state's constitution/laws and if he's a polygamist he wouldn't be able to take the oath.

Robyn Sullivan Jessop Brown was raised in a polygamist family — her mother was her father’s second wife. Robyn decided at a young age, that she wanted to live the principle of plural marriage. She married at 21, and became the wife of David Preston Jessop. Jessop is Christine Brown’s cousin, and Kody’s third cousin. Robyn writes that their marriage was never strong enough to invite another woman to join their messy relationship.

Amen! I remember it being discussed during a previous season that she enjoyed playing soccer in elementary school, but as she got older she was pushed out due to the boy team/girl team issue. I think that's a shame. Speaking of shame, I imagine for Jazz's parents, the idea of encouraging her participation in social activities with groups of non-trans and or LGBTQ youth would open Jazz up to being bullied or ostracized by the group for her other-ness. Band would have given her an instrument to hide behind, but I think Greg & Jeanette's agenda/parenting style with regards to Jazz wouldn't allow her to have "blend in with the group and go unnoticed" as a goal.

They work together. Jazz's Doctors on staff at same hospital An excerpt on their bios:

@Kohola3 Thanks for your reply. Not that I think Kody's dream of polygamy will come true in his lifetime, but certain aspects of the topics you mentioned really need an overhaul, at the very least. Like you, a single person, subsidizing government or employer welfare for married persons. Why should you have to shoulder another's financial burden just because they chose to marry and/or have kids? Where's the "Singles March" to protest the institutionalized discrimination of non-married persons? Another example is Social Security spousal beneficiaries. 80 years ago, when it was implemented, our American society was a bit different. It was assumed that when a man and woman got married, he'd be the breadwinner and she would be a housewife, so since she was surrendering her potential to earn income, she "deserved" to be provided for after his passing by way of receiving his social security benefit. Why aren't feminists outraged at the patronizing sentiment of that aspect of Social Security? I speculate that the best Kody can hope for would be for the government to say "ok fine, spiritually marry and cohabitate with any consenting adult(s) of your choosing, but for the purpose of government benefit, you may only pick one and that will be, for legal purposes, your spouse. Have a nice day"

Confession: I'm insatiably curious. if you would be willing to indulge my curiosity, why are you so opposed?

Indeed. it would be like arresting everyone who has a joint (or a reasonable equivalent for personal use). Unless you just wrecked into another's car because you were intoxicated from it or broke into your neighbor's house to steal it, chances are, when LEOs come into contact with you, it's no big deal, even though on a federal level, it's not legal.

But if they are married, it doesn't matter if she claims she doesn't know the father because the husband would be on the hook for the repayment. Your statement seems to support the idea that, for example, if Kody was legally married to the 4 women who have his children, he would be gone after for repayment of any benefits given. Under the current system, the 3 he isn't married to could dummy up and not state the father's name and Kody wouldn't be tapped for repayment. Maybe I am not getting what you are saying and for that I apologize.

I really don't understand your statement. What difference in welfare benefits would a married mom or dad get that an unmarried mom or dad already get under the discriminatory marriage laws we currently have?

Agreed! Additionally, their "boy at birth" might decide to not even indentify as a boy, so there's that.

How sad for Greg...but, amidst all that sadness, he can pat himself on the back because he's accomplished something. He's managed to keep his family together and alive. I think that's the bottom line for him. Whatever Jeanette and Jazz do (get a tattoo, schedule gender confirmation surgery) as long as Jazz doesn't go off the rails, he's a winner. I thought she had to have two letters of referral to be approved? Is it just one and done now?

Yeah but... they asked for it. Mariah is educated and applying for graduate school and hopefully wants to be taken seriously. like, talking to someone, like in real life, like, even if it is filmed, like, will be a testament to your education and like, thrown out there on like, social media because, like, you know your family is like under a miscroscope so like why wouldn't you like either be the like best like example of their like success or like....opt out.

I thought that Mariah and her girlfriend were cute, however, it annoys the hell out of me when grown women insert the word like in their sentences every few words. Like, Meri like did the same like thing when she was like trying to like get to know Audrey at the like restaurant. GAH! I thought it was nice of Meri and Janelle to support Mariah by attending the march with her. Even if their religious beliefs do not accept same-sex partnering. I don't think that any of the sister wives have ever said that their involvement with polygamy was anything other than the following of their religious doctrine, therefore comparing their situations, choices or behavior outside of that context makes no sense to me. That being said, not all religiously based polygamy is the same, even amongst the different FLDS sects. I don't think that Kody and his crew appreciate that the majority of the general public have no idea about the history of polygamy in the United States, especially the LDS version and the events that occurred that resulted in it being declared illegal by the federal government. I was not raised to believe in their faith, nor am I desirous to convert, so I can't put myself in any of their shoes about any of the way they interact with each other, their shared husband, or the various offspring. I think a lot of the issues and drama that they portray on the show are merely scripted to titillate the viewing audience. Would folks really watch if everyone got along?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say every one of his wives were "courted" the same way ~ major physical attraction combined with the religious morés that deny physical gratification before marriage increasing the sexual tension and then they go at it like rabbits during the honeymoon period...until they pump out 6 kids or so...which puts the brakes on romanticism. unless you are Meri and can't manage to "provide" more than 1 offspring. Blech.

I noticed it for two reasons. 1)They (both parents) admitted up front in the first 5 minutes of the show that the reason they adopted him was because they wanted a boy to carry on the family name and inherit the family business. Full stop. I'm also assuming that he learned this information at an early age, which is why every time he talks about his motivation it is "to make my family proud", in other words, earn his adoption. That's so messed up. 2) I have an adopted sister. 4 years older than me. My parents strongly disagreed with anyone who asked if she was adopted, even my brother and myself...and she was as different looking as L.B. is to the rest of his family, so that question came up a LOT. They didn't want her to feel anything but loved as a child. Shame on his parents.

I've only a few comments. #1) Calorie count from his Burger King binge after the appointment regarding his prosthetic: Bacon King sandwich-1150 small fries-320 10 piece chicken nuggets-430 Large sweet tea-240 chicken fries-280 Grand Total -2,420 calories #2) Adopting a child because you already have 3 girls but no boy so you NEED to in order to "carry on the family name" and have someone to inherit the family business is SO many ways of fucked up. Not just for the adopted child, but the message to the sisters: "Sorry, daughters, you were born female so you can't choose to keep the family name and give it to your children, either. Plus, you were born female so you can't learn the Florn business and inherit it, either." i don't wonder why he has so many emotional burdens, poor guy.

I could be wrong, but I don't think the goal of "Be You" is about accepting yourself for the way you ARE, warts and all. I think it's more of a way to empower certain folks to do whatever they want to change themselves into who or what they want to be, and not feel bad about it. Remember Rachel Dolezal? I'm trying to imagine how the "Be you" campaign would be interpreted by her.