Bergamot

There actually was a little seed of a good storyline with Michael!Dean that started to emerge here, but instead of tending it and feeding it and letting it flourish and grow (it should have dominated the episode), the writers were busy dumping their fertilizer on the Nick story and the Jack story. I cannot express how little I care about Nick or Jack or their stories. Nothing personal, Mark Pellegrino, but I am so sick of your face. His continued presence and the way it keeps consuming my show is like watching a flesh-eating bacteria eat up the body of a loved one. Is there no way to cleanse him from the show? As for Jack, I don't despise the sight of him as I do Nick, but the actor has no charisma and I don't believe I am ever going to care what happens to his character. Watching him deal with the loss of his grace is like watching a tired retread of a story that the show has done better in the past.

Yes! Catrox, this is a good point, and I agree. Dabb has been working on making the hunters on the show into a military team that need a military leader, rather than the solitary, tormented, shadowy individuals they started out as, just so that he could write episodes like this last one. He has a very specific idea of what he wants his Heroes to be, and he wants them to be like something out of a generic military thriller. For him, heroes are men that have a big reputation and carry big guns, and go around telling people it is their job to save the world, and everyone is impressed by them. They deal with threats to the United States President and they break out of secret military installations. They make big speeches to their team and then lead them on Special Forces raids where they mow people down with semi-automatic weapons and blow up buildings. It doesn't really have anything to do with where Supernatural came from and what made it a great show, and unfortunately it is something I find as dull as dishwater. This latest episode was just a continuation of this trend. As far as the main story of the episode, you could remove everything supernatural from it and it wouldn't really change anything. Sam is shaping his rag-tag team into a para-military group to take out threats to the nation. One of his men is kidnapped and held hostage by members of an international crime syndicate, and it turns out that their leader wants to be the new mob boss and wants to use Sam to get what he wants. (The fact that the the crime syndicate is composed of demons is completely irrelevant, considering that their climactic confrontation consists of fighting with guns and knives and fists, supernatural powers apparently not required.) Just as with the lack of focus on the Michael!Dean storyline, there was no intrinsic requirement or necessity that the episode be written around Sam showing off his leadership skills. This is the story that Dabb decided to tell; he could have written a totally different story that didn't even include the AU hunters. He could have written that they had found a way back to their own universe, if he wanted to. Dabb wrote the story this way because this is the story he wanted to tell; if you like it, good for you. I don't, though. Yes, I'm afraid that about sums it up.

I understand and share the concern over Dean's role when he returns, because with Dabb in charge I have grave doubts it will be anything I will like. Honestly, though, in a way I think I would be okay with Dean being an outsider and an outcast among the bunker crowd. (Until of course the shit hit the fan, and then everyone would be turning instinctively to him for help.) In fact, I would love it if Dean felt so unwanted and unneeded that he just left the bunker. Anything to save him from Dabb's sad, stultifying vision of what the show should be. Sam can stay in that sterile, windowless bunker if he wants, along with his uninteresting little gang of AU hunters, and Mary and Bobby can be his mom and dad, and Jack can be his little brother. And he can give speeches about how he is the Legendary Sam Winchester Who Scares Demons and Saves the World, and the hunters can listen and take notes, and then he can hand out their hunting assignments to them every day. Meanwhile Dean can stay in a different crappy motel every night, and drink too much, and get in fights, and live on the money he wins playing pool. And he can once again start hunting things and saving people, and make new friends and allies, and they will want him to stay, but he will have to move on. Maybe on a motorcycle, because he won't need the extra seat.

I have seen this excuse used repeatedly, and sorry, I don't believe it. There is no intrinsic requirement, or magic rule of television writing -- even on Supernatural -- that if Jensen is playing Michael, his role must be minimized. Lucifer was an "adversary" on the show, and there were many many scenes in episodes last season (and in previous seasons) showing his story. I remember because I was always fast-forwarding through them. How about we give Michael at least as much screen time -- and more importantly, story focus! -- as Lucifer has gotten in the past? (Although it really should be much more, considering that Jensen is one of the stars of the show.) Other adversaries on the show, like Crowley and Metatron, were also give plenty of space and time on the show for their stories to be told. I think you could consider Soulless Sam a McGuffin, but while his existence served as a device to trigger the plot for the season, the character also got as much screen time and story focus as ever. His role wasn't minimized to allow Dean's character to breathe, to allow Dean to develop and show off his awesomeness. Same with Sam when he was possessed by Gadreel. Or even Demon Dean -- we only got to have him for a couple episodes, but at least in those episodes his story was actually being told. It might be more complicated for the writers to focus on Michael!Dean, it might require more work and imagination and originality on their part, but personally I don't think it is asking too much to ask them to do a good job. Who knows what we might see in upcoming episodes -- I'll wait and see -- but in this very important episode for the character, the first full episode with Michael!Dean, the focus on his story was barely there. (Again, this is not just about screen time.) The episode was all about the awesomeness of General Sam. Whatever, I don't watch the show for Sam, but to each his own. But again, this was not an intrinsic necessity for the story; it was a deliberate choice on Dabb's part to focus on this. And I think he pretty much gave his predilections away with his comment on allowing the other characters to breathe -- that was very revealing, and it won't be forgotten. As for "Be careful what you wish for" -- sorry, you are not going to hear this Dean fan regret wanting to see Dean as Michael. I think the Dean fans on this forum have been very eloquent as to what they would like to see with Michael, and I think their comments are great! If the show fails to make it work, it is on the show's writers, not on them. As for me, I have already gotten something I desperately wanted. For years, literally, the show had erased two of the biggest, most important and fundamental facts about Dean Winchester as a character: that he had been to Hell, and that he was the Michael Sword. I really thought the show would end with these essential aspects of Dean having been completely and inexplicably "disappeared", as if they had never existed. But then last season they both resurfaced, to my great satisfaction and delight. Sure, I would prefer that the show do something amazing with these facts, and give them the focus they deserve -- although with the people currently in charge, I don't have much hope. But at least I had that satisfaction of having them acknowledged, and I don't regret wanting that.

Wow, that was really underwhelming. It was great seeing Jensen playing Michael -- his portrayal was the only interesting, fresh thing in the episode -- but he can only do so much without getting good scripts. I already have lost most of my hope that the show might do a good job with the character. Vampires? Really? That's not just a bizarre idea, it's actually a pretty dull one. That's the most original idea Dabb can come up with? The whole encounter with yet another pathetic Crowley wanna-be was just lame and pointless, and that was like, the big central story of the episode. They should have just kept Crowley. (I miss Crowley!) Very true. Partly it was the writing -- Dabb was just so very busy making sure that everybody else got to BREATHE, you know? But partly it was the acting. And the actress playing Mary was the worst. Her line-readings in this one were so very bad, especially in that little pep talk with Sam in the car. Her portrayal of Mary is cringe-worthy. All in all, it was sort of an interesting look at what Supernatural might have been like without the character of Dean. And you know what? It never would have made it past the first season.

I thought that when Kelly announced, after she tried to kill herself, that Jack wouldn't let her die, it was one of the most chilling, horrifying moments I had seen on the show. Of course when the show runs the flashbacks of Saint Kelly, that is one scene we never ever see, and probably never will. Because we are supposed to forget that from one point of view, Jack was actually a supernatural creature who grew in Kelly's body like a parasite, forcing her to stay alive until he could emerge, killing her in the process. Nope, never happened. Because (as Kelly flutes to us every time we have to watch that freaking video of hers again) Jack is her precious baby and deserving of nothing but unconditional love. Yeah, okay, we got it. It is interesting to me that when Jack runs The Tape of all the people that he has hurt with his powers (because on this show, showing us a series of flashbacks is the writers' lazy way of showing us what is going on inside a character) he doesn't include in that tape the death of his mother. Of course, I don't hate Jack. How could I? He's a nice kid. He's been designed to be nothing but sweet and lovable. But as a character he is paper-thin, and his teen angst (Who Am I? -- Identity Crisis 101) and inner conflicts (quick, run The Tape -- "Why do I keep HURTING people?!") have never engaged me. Jack has been coddled and loved and encouraged and told how special he is for his entire life, more than any other character on the show, and as a result, I am kind of tired of watching him feel sorry for himself and having the show expect me to feel sorry for him. As a comparison, think about Dean and how Kripke talked about the character. (He is not the only character that could be used for comparison, but he is my favorite.) In an early interview, Kripke talked about the dimensions that Jensen had brought to the character, the depth of emotion and "the totally flawed, screwed-to-hell psyche that he brings to Dean." Kripke talked about the story scratching the surface of the character, and letting us see the damage that caused him to be the person he was. I will not lie, there have been times when I have said "Awww, Dean." But I always felt that the show's goal was to give the character dimensions and tell an interesting story. With Jack my impression is the whole point is to give FEELS to the fans, which is putting the cart before the horse. There have been scenes where Dean's pain brought tears to my eyes. I have never once felt choked up over Jack's pain. I mean, seriously, when Mary was telling Dean about how Jack had been fighting a war and had lost friends, were we supposed to feel moved by Jack's suffering? Because I wasn't. (And by the way, who exactly were the friends that he supposedly lost? I must have missed that part.) And when Jack went off to brood again and was randomly banging on himself with his fist -- sorry, but I thought he looked kind of silly. And I wish just once they would let Jack react to some trauma without him breaking out, like a rash, into flashbacks. For me Jack is not a terrible character; he is a cute, lovable boy, and I am kind of like "whatever" to him being on the show. But I think that what the show has done with him as a character is very revealing of the limitations of this showrunner and group of writers. And I think the odds are very low that he will ever install himself forever in my heart as earlier characters on the show have.

That was literally me when Dean said that. I was victory arming, whooping and shouting "YASSSSS. OH MY GODS!! YAASS. It's about fucking time!!" And variations on that theme to the end of the episode. Laissez les bons temps rouler! :-)

Seriously. That legit fucking surprised me in a good way. I was all YASSSSSSSSSS. Coming from Dean it was just the best way to do it. Dean never forgot he was the Michael Sword even if the show tried. And that was probably THE MOST satisfying moment. Even if Dean didn't let Michael possess him, I would have been okay with Dean just being able to say it. Yes! I do wish the final battle in the episode had been more epic, but it wasn't a deal breaker for me. The "Save Sammy" thing wasn't either, although I did not love it or the way it was written. But if the intent had been to show that Dean did not care if the world was destroyed as long as Sam was okay, then Dean would not have made of point of saying -- as he specifically did at the beginning of the episode -- that he would be ready to retire only if he knew the world would be safe. Not that I needed a reminder of Dean's devotion to saving people, no matter what the cost to him personally. But yes! My absolute favorite moment of the entire episode -- maybe of the entire year! -- was when Dean asked Michael, "What if you had your sword?" And then added, "I am your sword. Your perfect vessel. With me, you'd be stronger than you've ever been." And the intense, calculating way that Michael looked at him when Dean said that (the Michael actor did a good job there), and confirmed his words: "Oh, I know what you are." When that moment occurred, I was like, "YES!!!" I don't know, maybe only a DeanGirl who was watching the show at the end of Season 5 could really understand why this was so important to me and what I was feeling. It does not wipe away the memory of "The angels have moved on" and "You are no longer a part of this story", but yes, it does ease the bitterness and feelings of disrespect and disregard that were engendered at that time. And I am speaking only for myself, and this is one time that I don't care if people understand, but I do feel that this is something that has been owed to me for a long time. So excuse me if I bask in this moment, and warm myself in the glow of these words: "I am your sword. Your perfect vessel." \0/

Did I hear them say that Rowena and AU Charlie had gone on a road trip together? What a strange idea. I would not have thought they would get along or want to spend time together. I know Rowena pointed out to the original Charlie how alike they were in a lot of ways, but they were also very fundamentally different in their values and their attitudes toward life. I feel as if it is more likely they would get on each other's nerves, as we had seen before. I admit I would not mind seeing Ketch again. I think it would be interesting if he ran into Michael and mistook him for Dean.

Thanks Gonzosgirrl! :-) Yes, I do think the clear intent in the episode was to show that Lucifer, once he had Jack's grace, was now the greatest threat in existence to the world, and I think that Dean was perfectly aware of this. I don't think he had to overhear a statement of Lucifer's intentions in order to know what was coming (and personally I would think it really strange and kind of stupid if he decided not to act until he did hear it.) Lucifer was going to destroy humanity, and Dean had to stop him. Maybe there could have been another way to do this, but maybe not. I think the intent was to show Dean being typically Dean-like in his actions -- brave, impulsive, and self-sacrificing, and yes, protective of his family. Not perfect, not always right, too reckless, but the opposite of selfish.

Another thing I liked in the episode, was the part where Jack went into a rage and almost killed that poor convenience store clerk. Finally! -- Jack being something other than pure and sweet and innocent, and hurting someone wrongly and not by accident. It made me think that maybe there is hope for the character after all. (As a side note, I also have to admit that it was kind of charming how excited Jack was at the thought of being out among the stars with a lightsaber -- "like Star Wars"!) The problem though is that if Jack's grace does regenerate completely, he is already more powerful than any angel that ever existed, including Lucifer and Michael -- and he is basically still a baby. And if they pray to him, he can be there instantly to save them. The writers are going to have to come up with a lot of excuses as to why the good guys are ever going to be in any real danger when they have Jack on their side. I know it's a problem the show has faced before, but it is unfortunately not a problem it has been able to handle very well. One thing I was wondering -- if Jack is more powerful than Michael, and Michael knows this, will Michael avoid confronting him? Maybe that is why Michael goes for a walk at the end of the episode instead of immediately declaring himself ruler of the world; maybe he is hiding from Jack for the time being, until he figures out what to do about him.

I can't believe it! They actually killed Lucifer!! I was QUITE wrong about that; I thought for sure that Lucifer would still be standing at the end of this episode. (He really is dead, isn't he? Please let him be really dead and never coming back!) First among the things I liked about the episode: not just that Lucifer is dead, but that one of his biggest mistakes, the thing that really opened Jack's eyes, was not some grand gesture that went wrong, but the pathetic nastiness of him not being able to resist killing an innocent young girl, just for the pleasure of crushing her skull and getting her blood on his hands. I mean, he could have handled Maggie catching sight of him in so many ways, but he could not resist acting as the ugly, petty monster he really was. Second, Maggie! I know no one else cares about her, but I was so happy to see Maggie from "Bring "Em Back Alive", with her braided hair and baseball bat, getting on the bus in the last episode to go through the rift. And then I was like -- oh no, she's dead! But then -- hooray, she's alive again! Ha! I would not mind having her come back next season. Third, so glad that Bobby and Mary were basically not an important part of this episode. The show works much better without them, in my opinion. If they have to be around next season, I hope they are always off somewhere else investigating something and never on screen. Lastly, I loved seeing Dean with angelic powers! That's another thing I did not believe would ever happen. And what do you mean he was not heroic? He saved ME -- from having to watch Lucifer on my show any more!! :-) Seriously, though, I do think Dean is a hero. I very much enjoyed seeing him take charge and be a leader in this episode. And I am looking forward to seeing what Jensen does with this role. I think Michael may not have things all his own way. I know Michael has subjugated an entire world, but he has never had to handle Dean Winchester before!

This didn't bother me too much, because I've seen it in World War II movies, and it kind of fits with the way AU Michael had all his subordinates marching around in paramilitary uniforms and saluting and barking "All Hail Michael!" Another example being when they were going to execute Charlie, and they didn't just have an angel kill her, but had to march her outside ceremoniously, and have an angel read an official order of execution from an official parchment document, and then actually bring out an official executioner in a black hood. It all seems childish, but from the beginning the angels on the show have acted like a bunch of children. AU Michael has a lot of swagger, but he is really nothing more than a child playing a game of war with a collection of toy soldiers (by which I mean the other angels, not the toy army men.) Anyway, that's the way I saw it -- as another example of how the angels, since God abandoned them, have been playing games like a bunch of deadly, dysfunctional children. I would rather see it that way, that AU Michael and his angels like playing war and think they are being cool, than have it be that it is the writers who actually think all these military trappings are cool.

A couple scenes that I liked in my re-watch: The little scene where Sam says to Dean that he is sorry, and Dean tells him that he has nothing to apologize for. Just a small, quiet little scene, very understated, but with hidden depths of genuine emotion. Well-directed and well-acted -- nicely done! Gabriel laying out the truth for Lucifer about why he was locked up by God -- "Don't you get it?" I liked the metaphor of Lucifer as a cancer on humanity. A good scene, unfortunately ruined at the end by Lucifer, unbelievably, getting all teary-eyed. What is he crying about, anyway? Do the writers seriously think they can give us at this point a Lucifer who is a poor little unloved woobie? Cry me a river, Lucifer! Of course, as has already been pointed out, it would have been helpful if Gabriel had been this articulate about Lucifer while Jack was there to hear it. But see, that's one of the writers' guilty little secrets (and this is not the first time they have done this): when you can't or won't do the work of making an adversary actually formidable, by writing them as sharp, clever, cunning and ingenious, you take the easy way out by instead dumbing down the good guys. Because let's face it, Lucifer would not have gotten anywhere in this episode if everyone else had not been stuttering and stumbling and bumbling about every time he opened his mouth. It's not that Lucifer was all that smart, it's just that the good guys were stupid --and I hate it when the show does that. I think for me it was when Mary tells Dean to "go easy on Jack", because he's been "fighting a war" and has "lost people". Really Mary? Do you have any idea who you are speaking to with your self-satisfied little lecture? Yeah, that was definitely the worst Mary moment for me.

Well, I know that the writers would agree that Lucifer is hysterical; their obvious belief that he is incredibly funny and entertaining must be one of the reasons we are still stuck with the character, long after his sell-by date. His smugness and whiny self-absorption and self-pity are no longer funny to me, if they ever were, and his act is so far past being stale that he is verging on fingernails-on-a-chalkboard levels of irritation for me. I can't remember if I ever really felt that Lucifer was scary, but at least in the beginning I could take him seriously as a character. I went back today and watched some scenes with Lucifer from "Abandon All Hope" which I remember really liking. :Castiel meets Lucifer Sam and Lucifer talk Comparing the Lucifer from that episode to the one we have now, I think it is obvious that something has gone really wrong with the character; something important has been lost, although it is hard for me to put into words what it is. He is such a buffoon now, with all the mugging and the "look at me, I'm so cute" jokiness. I tried to imagine the Lucifer in "Abandon All Hope" trying to give someone a high-five, as he just did in this last episode, and I absolutely couldn't. Unfortunately, the writers have made it clear how much they love Lucifer, so I don't believe we will ever be free of him. But I can no longer take him or his story seriously, and I think the writers' devotion to him has hurt the show.

Do we know that Billie is in this last episode? Although I guess an appearance by her could be one of those things they are keeping secret.

Well, I think Jack was well-known and considered important -- he was the only one on their side with angelic powers. And Mary was known for being with Jack. Besides being known as the other-worlder who was always with Jack, I didn't see Mary do anything in AU world that justifies Samantha Smith's claim that Mary had become "General Mary". That's not exactly what I meant. I was thinking of the kind of bonding you see with comrades-at-arms, the kind of closeness that develops during life or death situations. I'm not saying Mary never conversed with any of these people, obviously she knew them and had talked to them. Being sociable with people at a party is one thing; wartime camaraderie is something else. Like what they made clear had developed between Charlie and Ketch.

I am sure that we are supposed to see Mary as very heroic when she tells Dean and Sam that she can't go back with them from the AU world because she can't abandon people. However, watching her in this episode just confirmed that for me the character has ended up being a big failure -- and NOT because she refuses to devote herself totally to being a good mommy to Dean and Sam above everything else in life. As for abandoning people in trouble, isn't that what Mary did here? All Sam and Dean had to do was say she could take her little band of 25 back with them, along with a vague promise to look for a way to somehow defeat Michael and hopefully come back to this world, and Mary was perfectly content to leave. So easy! She expressed no further reservations, such as worrying about what if they could not get back. She did not say, "But what about the little puppet show children? Who will protect them if I leave?" You know, the little children that watched Jack's shadow puppet show? All those little urchins with dirty faces, at the mercy of the angels without Mary to watch over them. But who knows, maybe they are all already dead. Here's another thing about Mary. When she told Dean and Sam that she could not leave, because her people needed her, I do not believe for a second that she meant, "They need every able-bodied fighter they can get." No, I am convinced that she was saying, "They need me, because I am General Mary!" The impression given is that she saw herself as indispensable to them. Unfortunately even if the actress tells us that Mary became the big important leader of the rebels, that's not what we were shown. Sure, we saw her giving a few random orders to a few random rebels, but that is not the same as showing leadership. When Jack was itching to go after Michael, she just asked him instead to "wait for Bobby". Bobby is their real leader. It was Bobby, not Mary, who coordinated with Dean and Sam to rescue Charlie and Ketch. Bobby was the one who brought everyone together and organized the vote on leaving. Even after they arrived at the bunker, it was Bobby who took charge and made the inspirational speeches, not Mary. She was busy smiling prettily at people as she handed out refreshments. As for the supposed emotional bond that she formed with the rebels, I never saw it. Did we ever see her have a personal conversation with any of them except for Bobby? Showing her becoming their friend, forming connections, would not have taken a whole episode, just a scene or two, or even just a few lines with some good acting. This was clinched for me when we saw her, along with Dean and Sam, talking to the rebels about returning through the rift. When she says to one of them, in the face of their obvious skepticism and suspicion, "You may not know my sons, but you do know me!" -- it fell completely flat. I got absolutely zero sense of any mutual feeling of admiration, respect, or even liking between Mary and the rebels in that scene (or in any other scene, to be honest.) I almost expected the man she was addressing to respond, "Hell, no, lady! I don't know you -- why should I listen to you?" There certainly was no sense that he was thinking, "Oh no! Mary can't leave -- we need her!" It was Dean and Sam's words that tipped the balance, from what I could see, not Mary's influence. The bottom line is that in my view Mary liked playing the role of General Mary; it was what she wanted, and Mary always does what she wants to do. Once she was reassured that she could take her band of rebels with her, she was happy to go. If they wanted to show Mary being heroic and sacrificial, they should have done something like having her encourage the others to go through the rift while she deliberately stayed behind to protect the puppet show children, or save those wounded by the angel bombs, or something like that. I know that the show wants me to admire Mary, I get that, but so far they haven't even convinced me to like the character.

Well, as far as owing her sons, she herself admitted to AU Bobby that it is her belief that because of the deal she made, her sons suffered terribly. Even if she has no feelings for them as their mother and no desire to get to know them for her own sake, she might feel that she could try to make up for that now by trying to be there for them. The problem is the artificial situation created by the rift, in that she can't say I need to finish this fight and then I want to spend time with my sons. It's like she had to decide between staying with the rebels or staying with her sons, and whatever she decided, it would be permanent. (Of course we as viewers know that the rift could be opened again, but I think they were all thinking this would be it.) It made this a stark, all-or-nothing choice, and no wonder Dean and Sam might wonder why whatever was on the AU side of the choice for Mary outweighed never seeing them again. They wouldn't be human if they didn't. But even setting aside Dean and Sam's needs, watching Mary in this episode just really clarified for me how I dislike the character. I don't know if it is the writing for the character, the actress, or both, but I don't like her. I guess it is possible they could fix the character, but the writers would have to first understand what has gone wrong, and I don't think they do. I will take further thoughts to the Mary thread though.

Yes. Also, I find it hard to believe that AU Michael, who in the promo grabs Dean by the throat and is all Evil Megalomaniac with his "Now this world is MINE!", is going to change his clothes and then quietly and anonymously walk off down the street at the end of the episode. AU Michael is a character in himself, and that doesn't fit the character. Oh yeah. And I have no doubt that if their plan is to bring back the original Michael, they will fit it in. A couple of clips in the "Then" sequence to remind us, a couple of minutes of dialogue to explain things, and they would be good to go! That would actually be pretty typical. Me too! We just need more data though, another interview or picture or something!

Yes, I agree. Actually though, if first we see a Dean who is using some kind of powers to fight with, that would be a bonus for me!

I do not really follow all the convention news, but I did see a tweet from the one in Italy which said that when Jensen was asked how it felt to play another character than Dean, he responded, "I haven't had the chance to play this character yet, but I will". (I can't find it now, so I don't know the context or how accurately he was quoted.) Anyway, to me this suggests that maybe when we see Dean flying through the air in that battle, he is accessing some sort of superhuman power source, but he is still Dean. Maybe the "other character" offers power to Dean so that he can fight Lucifer, but then does not take over until the very end of the episode.

Me too! So tired of him. Tired of his face, tired of his schtick. Plus, he is just gross. Not in an interesting or frightening way, either -- but like the old, unshaven guy dressed like a slob, with his gut hanging out in his dirty tee shirt, that you see on the bus, and you hope that he doesn't sit next to you because you know he will strike up a conversation to complain about his life and tell you some sad story, and then ask you if you have any extra change you can give him. Now, on the other hand, if that's what the show is going for with their portrayal of Lucifer, then I guess I have to give them credit, because if so they are doing a good job! (My personal headcanon is that Lucifer has bad teeth and really bad breath as well. I think it would be funny if when he came up to people, they all kind of leaned back when he spoke because the smell was so bad.) Speaking of being on a bus, I think it was pretty funny that the big climactic sequence of the penultimate episode of the season for the show "Supernatural" was ... watching a group of people climb onto a bus, watching the bus drive along (accompanied by Dramatic Music), and then watching the group of people hurriedly disembark to step through into the bunker. Boy, didn't see that coming! I mean, come on, the writers didn't even have anyone following the bus or shooting at them or anything. They could have at least added a digital countdown onscreen of the 31 hours to add some excitement. And so much for hoping that back at the bunker, Rowena might do something dramatic or interesting or dangerous to get them all back. All she did was sit there tiredly repeating the words of her spell over and over. Oh well.

Oh yes, Jack certainly is "nice and polite". And full of generic teenage angst, and every step of his character arc has been totally predictable and boring. Not exactly what you hope for when Lucifer's son is added to the show as an important character. The show waited all season to bring about the first meeting between Jack and Lucifer, and the immediate result was a scene where Jack sits alone in the forest with an expression of teenage angst and we watch flashbacks of his (brief) life story. (The writers on this show love flashbacks -- such a lazy, uncreative way to tell a story.) An awkward conversation where Lucifer burbles on inanely about how this "dad thing" is "new to him" and Jack's first question is "Why does everyone hate you?" (and sorry, but yes, it's a stupid question, unless for some unfathomable reason Jack has been kept ignorant of the most basic facts about his father) -- anyway, not exactly the big dramatic confrontation you might anticipate. And yes, in terms of "real life experience" Jack is not even a teenager yet -- he's not even a toddler, really. But you can't have it both ways. If Jack is still so naive and shiny-new that he doesn't even understand why he shouldn't trust Lucifer or believe a word he says, then he should not be allowed to decide whether or not he should spend time with him -- any more than a child on the playground should be allowed to decide whether or not he will accept candy from a stranger who offers to take him for a ride in his van. I actually liked Gabriel in that scene where he tells off Lucifer, and the bitterness and honesty of his words. But that whole conversation should have taken place in front of Jack -- why hide it from him? Why were all of them tippy-toeing their way around saying what and who Lucifer really was? It was ludicrous.

Personally I think Dean was right that Jack should not have been allowed to listen to Lucifer, period. Mainly because Jack came across as extremely stupid in this episode. Asking Lucifer why everyone hates him so much? Seriously? In the first place, Jack certainly had enough time while in the MOL bunker to gather this information himself -- it's not like the answer was a big secret. And in the second place, does it not occur to Jack that Lucifer has reason to lie to him? Jack has been around long enough now that it makes him look like an idiot to be so credulous and naive. (His stupidity in this area is only matched of course by Mary, with her "Oh, pish! What could possibly go wrong with allowing Jack to spend time with Lucifer? Absolutely nothing to worry about!")