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Katy M
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Posts posted by Katy M
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14 minutes ago, Wynne88 said:
Except when they do. There are two episodes (whose names I forget) that would seem to belie this. One was fairly early on when Dean was torturing demons in Bobby's shed - I can't remember why. The other was the episode with the guy they beat the heck out of (maybe to get a demon out of him?) - what I mostly remember from that one is the guy later adopting a dog who was wearing a cone of shame, and then sacrificing him. Sorry I can't be more specific.
Let it Bleed from season 6 to find out where Lisa and Ben were. Repo Man from Season 8 but the torture was during a flashback to season 4, they were torturing the demon to find out where Lillith was.
They were also torturing a demon in Two Minutes to Midnight in Season 3 to find out who held Dean's contract.
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9 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:
Information?
But, that's kind of my point. Why would Sam be OK with them torturing Pierce for information. The alpha is dead. So, any information he has to give them on that front is useless. Information about hunting in America shouldn't be OK with Sam.
31 minutes ago, Mulva said:Dean murdered a terrified, unarmed teenaged boy whose only crime was to have been born into the wrong family, and that was supported by the narrative and the fandom.
I didn't support that. The only reason I can be at all OK with it is because, even though it was unbeknownst to Dean and he didn't want to do it, he did help kill his bully. But, mostly, no, not OK with it at all. But, I would equate that more with Sam drinking the nurse at the end of Season 4, then I would with this torture. Because they were both under demonic influences (of their own choice). What's Sam's excuse here? Or even Dean's? Dean may not have said good, but he didn't protest.
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9 minutes ago, Mulva said:
I also had no problem with Sam and Mary allowing the BMOL to take the traitorous hunter to meet his fate. The man was directly responsible for several deaths that day and who knows how many innocent people died because he was working with the alpha vamp.
I wouldn't so much mind if they just killed him. But, it sounded to me like they were going to torture him. For what purpose? Punishment is the only reason I can think of.
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5 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:
Option two: Whatever spell Lady Toni did on Sam back at the beginning of the season wasn't just for torture but also made him susceptible to their sales pitches.
Or, this is part of the epic consequences of breaking their Billie deal. Utter stupidity.
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2 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:
Nice to have a polite psychopath show up at your door, isn't it? ;)
LOL, probably. But, that's not what I meant. That MOL guy that gave the key to Sam told him that the bunker was impenetrable by every evil and could only be accessed with this one key. Are we to believe that this is a key that the hardware store could copy? The Steins had no trouble just strolling and they didn't have a key. I'll accept that angels weren't included in the list of evil because sometimes, depending on the episode, they hadn't been on earth for a while and the MOLs either didn't believe in them or didn't think they were evil. But, Crowley can walk in and out, apparently
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16 minutes ago, Boopsahoy said:
I have to admit, I really thought he was going to let Mick die-so I didn't catch the bullet exchange right away. My husband called it though.
I didn't buy that Sam would just let Mick die. That's totally not Sam (or dean either had he been there). But, I did not know what his plan was, and I was not able to catch the bullet passover without the flashback, so I actually appreciated that. I would have been left wondering why he didn't just shoot before instead of giving that whole speech.
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4 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:
Why are you putting this just on Sam? Dean was also fine with it. Who cares about their broader definition? D&S had no problem at all with that guy getting what was coming to him.
I'm putting it more on Sam, for two reasons. 1. Sam and Mary said "good," Dean said nothing, and he had stopped a vamp from getting tortured earlier. 2. Sam had spent 2 or 3 days, maybe longer, being tortured by the BMOLs. He knows firsthand, in a way that even Dean seeing the results can't know as well. And, Pierce won't even get an angel healing at the end.
There's literally no reason to torture him. Just kill him quick and get it over with. Not that I'm particularly down with vigilante killings, but I doubt that they're just going to let him go.
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I'm not really all that upset that the alpha vamp is dead. He's only really been in two episodes, and the last one was end of season 7, so 5 years ago. And, he's a monster. Killing monsters is what they do. It's not like he was a nice monster that they were sparing. He kidnapped kids. Yeah, Sam and Dean returned that one kid, but considering he had a kidnapped kid in the first place, there's no reason to assume he didn't go out and replace him.
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16 minutes ago, Commando Cody said:
They should just build a bus station outside the bunker. Everybody knows where it is and just shows up.
At least Ketch knocked, everybody and everything else just walks in.
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1 minute ago, AwesomO4000 said:
That better all have been a ruse, because I'm not up for another round of Sam does something because the plot dictates he does so that he can take the opposite view from Dean and then be proven wrong again.
I hadn't even thought of that (probably because it will turn out it isn't), but yes, a ruse would fix everything. Some kind of double-cross so that they can I don't know what. But, yeah, they go back to the bunker, Sam tells Dean his plan to destroy the BMOLs in a way where they can also save Mary from them, Dean is on board, they work together with minimal angst. Why do I not have high hopes for this scenario?
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1 minute ago, Lemuria said:
Especially when we just saw Dean stop Ketch from continuing to torture a vampire for information.
Unless that was to show more dichotomy. Dean stopped Ketch from torturing a vamp and Sam and Mary said "good" to the unpleasant handling of rogue hunters.
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5 minutes ago, Lemuria said:
That they kept the Colt even though they had no way of making bullets, which was useless. And that they didn't approach Dean and Sam about it (they didn't have to tell them that they got the gun from Mary), even though if they know everything they said they did, they knew that the brothers and Bobby had found a way to re-arm the Colt--yet more stupid.
Actually, I'm not going to blame them much for that. Of course, they would keep it. I'm sure they were working on a way to figure out how to make bullets. No matter how they got it, Sam and Dean probably wouldn't help them. Might even try to steal it back for themselves. And, much as I love Bobby, this is one thing he doesn't really get credit for. Ruby is the one who showed him how to make the bullets.
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2 minutes ago, rue721 said:
So wait, did we find out why the BMOL wanted the Colt in the first place?
Presumably to kill things. Unlike other people, I don't think they had a specific grand plan to use it for any one monster.
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I hate hate hate hate hate, (you get the point) the gadgets. Not a James Bond fan. I hate that Sam decided to join up and is apparently going to try to manipulate his brother with half-truths and lies. Just when I thought we were going to get a bro-war free season.
I liked the PIerce twist, mostly because I didn't see it coming. I agree that Sam (and Mary) should not be on board for "unpleasantness."
I liked the Mick bullet pass off.
I hated all the gadgets. I know already said that, but I can't reiterate enough.
I don't really understand why the Alpha came in all alone and I don't understand why he didn't rush Sam. HOnestly, I expect more from the Alpha.
And, unless there was dead man's blood involved, I expect more from any vampire than just letting some british dude beat her silly.
I have no problem with Dean being mad at Mary. He has the right to have whatever feelings he wants. However, I do agree that Mary had a point. She's not just a mom. And Sam and Dean aren't kids. Mary died. Not on purpose. It's not really her fault (unless we blame her deal, which I suppose we can) that Dean did not have a childhood. It sucks, but you can't go backwards in life.
And, no, Sam, this is not a good idea. I know, I already said that, too. But, these are my two big takeaways from this episode. 1. Gadgets are bad. 2. Sam is going to betray Dean, yet again.
1 minute ago, catrox14 said:I especially can't fathom how Sam would be okay with "rogue" hunters being "handled". What will define a rogue hunter? Anyone that doesn't work with BMoL.
Please let this be a ruse. Cause otherwise, Sam is on my poop list for endorsing what sounds like torture of hunters.
Yes, absolutely. If we look at it from a point of logic, Sam has gone rogue numerous times himself. Drinking demon blood, starting the Apocalypse, probably pretty much everything he did while soulless. And Dean while he had the Mark of Cain and was a demon. These two should not be endorsing torture for people who do bad things.
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41 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:
See, I don't think that scene was included simply because Sera wanted to get Jared shirtless. IMO, it was an important character moment showing us Sam was not Sam, and it was in contrast to the shirtless Dean scene earlier in the episode. I guess I'm just not that impressed by shirtless scenes in general.
And although there were other ways they could do it, it also showed anti-possession tattoo in place.
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41 minutes ago, companionenvy said:
While I think the BMOL are bad news and that Mary is wrong for working with them, I don't see it as a major betrayal - and don't think the fact that Lady Toni tortured Sam changes that.
First of all, Sam and Dean have worked with sketchy and beyond sketchy people in the past, including the KING OF HELL, who they practically (and probably literally) have on speed dial at this point. The King of Hell who, by the way, came very close to killing Jodi and has killed people they care about. On the subject of "people who have tortured Sam," we also have Cole, who the boys subsequently took on a pretty companionable hunt with. In addition, Sam himself called the BMOL during LOTUS, and Sam and Dean presumably aren't complaining that Mary and Cas worked with the BMOL to get them out of the black site.
I see it as a betrayal only because she didn't tell them the true purpose of the job they were working. If Mary had just decided to work with the BMOLs, then that would have been her business. But, as soon as it directly affects them and she says nothing, it becomes betrayal.
43 minutes ago, companionenvy said:Second - and I've made this point in other contexts before - making a different decision from a loved one, even on matters of fundamental import, does not constitute betrayal. It is wrong of Mary not to have told her sons she was working with the BMOL, but the fact that she has decided to work with them should not be taken as a personal betrayal of Sam and Dean. Mary has made a calculation that working with the BMOL is the best option, and the best way of achieving their mutual goals. That's a choice the boys may have any number of valid objections to. What it is not is a personal betrayal. I'll add that if one brother ultimately sides with Mary over the objections of the other, that won't be a personal betrayal either. It will be making a decision.
I completely agree with this. The only other thing I would add is that Sam and Dean don't have to like it or support this decision in any way, shape, or form.
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2 minutes ago, rue721 said:
And I also think it's a waste. $15K wtf. You can do a lot with that kind of money! Just seemed "off" to me that that's how Dean and Sam would spend it -- on a consultant, essentially. YMMV.
Yeah, it was weird. But, on the other hand, Bobby had just died. Grief makes you do weird things. Dean was all about figuring out Bobby's death bed message and punishing his killer, and if 15K was what it was going to cost to figure out what the numbers meant, then so be it.
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This is the unpopular opinion that is totally going to get me stoned to death. I don't care about the Impala. Like at all. It's just a car. I did love the episode Baby, though.
And, I don't really like the Bunker. I miss them being out on the road every week. It's got some cool stuff, and it was fun watching Dean play with the swords and Sam geek out over the books, and it probably is nice for them to not have to sleep in the car and in different hotels every night since they are getting older, but, I guess I'm just mean that way.
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Just now, rue721 said:
It's not like most hunters have a cache of dragon gold to pay him with.
I don't think he dealt with hunters all that much. He somehow met Bobby who saved his life, but he told Dean that he didn't believe all that stuff. Obviously that changed with the leviathans. So, if he was usually dealing with mob types, former spies, and (I'm having a brain cramp and can't remember what they're called) the paranoid people who are going to live in compounds off the grid, they may have money. And, Frank would probably work for a few people for lots of money, then get volume business.
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27 minutes ago, rue721 said:
LOL OK, another UO: I didn't like Frank. He creeped me out.
It also continues to be weird to me that Dean gave him $15,000. For what? How? I mean, I can fanwank it but that detail just seemed so bizarre to me.
Someone else was asking what happened to the gold from Like a Virgin, and I was wondering where Dean got 15K, so I decided to put the two together.
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17 minutes ago, AllyB said:
True and as this was endgame for a potential series 8, Rory should have been about 23 when it happened. That said birth control isn't always effective. I knew a girl back in college who was always super careful she was on the pill and always insisted on a condom. She had a one night stand with a guy she met on a weekend away and as she also threw up over the weekend she decided to cover all bases and take the morning after pill. Her kid is 18 now. Sometimes even the best laid plans don't work out. Though Rory couldn't even remember that she had a boyfriend of nearly 3 years at the time she got pregnant, so who knows what her birth control plan was!!!!
Actually, I think not remembering you have a boyfriend is pretty good b/c.
This was the planned endgame no matter what, from what I understand. ASP couldn't possibly know how many seasons the show would last. So, it could have happened during high school or college or the end as we know it. At any rate, I think I would have liked those four words best if they had followed a wedding episode. Or, at least, have the possibility of adding a silent "and I know who the father is."
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I haven't watched since season 3, but the thing that bugs me about Daphne is there are never any consequences to her actions. The one exception to that is when she lied about losing her hearing aid.
But, other than that, she blackmails a senator. That's all good. She instigates an inappropriate relationship with her boss and gets him fired (yes, it was his responsibility to say no to her, I full agree with that, but it still wasn't right on her part). I don't really remember anything else, but I feel like there was other stuff.
Then, the whole basketball team thing bugged me. She switches teams because her team keeps losing. I like to win as much as the next guy, but you can't team shop like that. But, OK, she switches teams. But, then she doesn't actually get to play because they just wanted her because she's deaf. So, she switches back (after her old team starts winning, btw). Then, they make the championship game, and she isn't allowed to play because she hasn't been on the team long enough, due to all her team switching. And, she whines about it so they let her play anyway. Because she's deaf, or because it's a deaf team. But, either way, NO, just no. The rules are for everybody Daphne. You haven't played on the team long enough. Sorry, that really annoyed me as you can tell, since it's been a few years and I managed to get a good rant up for it.
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2 hours ago, Commando Cody said:
I'm watching the Mother's Little Helper episode on TNT this morning, when I realized I saw one of the actors on American Housewife a few weeks ago. Jenny O'Hara.
Back in the day, Jenny O'Hara was in everything. She was a teacher on the Facts of Life, she was Sam's assistant or something on My Sister SAm, she's Doug's Mom on The King of Queens, she was in the TV movie, The Face on the Milk Carton.
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On 8/10/2016 at 9:42 AM, RulerofallIsurvey said:
I call shenanigans on Dean couldn't tell the guy in the bar was a demon. Maybe we are supposed to think that's the Mark's influence messing with him. But then, I don't think Dean would have bothered stopping the guy if he was that far gone with the Mark. And I don't think Dean stopped him to save Crowley. I thought Dean did it entirely to save the guy, who if he hadn't been a demon, Crowley would have taken out - and then like he said, gone after everyone else in his life too.
They can only tell when demons are demons when it's plot-convenient. Don't forget Samuel and Sam ran around with Christian for a whole year not knowing he was a demon, and Dean had met him several times. Actually, I can't really think of that many times, when they just know someone is a demon.
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S12.E14: The Raid
in Supernatural
I know I'm in the minority, but I was never overly impressed by the Alpha. Maybe a bit in Family Matters, but he mostly just sat in his cage and lectured Sam and Dean about Purgatory and souls. He seemed to be there for exposition more than anything else. He did "kill" Christian (he could tell Sam was soulless, but nto that Christian was a demon and breaking his neck would do nothing?) and threatened Sam, but then he was gone again. In There will Be Blood, he speechified some more and Sam and Dean had to save him from Edgar. I've just never been overly impressed and am not surpised he would waste his opportunity to kill Sam and decide to chat instead.