Wayward Son

I actually think this could be it! I could imagine Misha fearing Vicki would be pissed if Misha, or even worse a co-worker of his, outed the pregnancy to fans before she was ready. And I wouldn't blame her for being pissed if Misha, Jensen or Jared had of done that.

I'm honestly not sure how Misha's kids could make Jensen think of something show related. I feel like it has to be something personal. The closest thing I could think of would be a reveal that the crack!spec Jack's DNA was altered so he was Cas' child is actually true. However, I can't imagine something like that panicking Misha. So I'm leaning heavily towards personal.

I'm definitely not stating anything as fact :) . I just don't think Misha / Cas is 100% secure the way some other fans do. Plus the show has demoted him before so it's not impossible for them to do it again. Plus with the shows ratings declining this season the CW may have demanded they cut back costs and the demotion of Mark and Misha would have been a pretty effective way of doing so. As I said this is pure speculation / musings on my part and not at all a statement of fact :)

This is pure speculation Has it been confirmed that Misha is a series regular again next year? I wouldn't be surprised if we were to learn that both had been demoted and Misha chose to stay while Mark chose to leave.

I hadn't heard that before. I would be interested to find out if it is true or not also :)

I think we've reached the point where it is safe to say Jared, Jensen and Misha won't be acknowledging Mark's exit. Pretty disappointed in the three of them if I'm honest :(

++ In My Time of Dying ++ Houses of the Holy -- What Is and What Should Never Be 53 - In My Time of Dying 31 - Hollywood Babylon 29 – Nightshifter 25 - What Is and What Should Never Be 25 - Houses of the Holy 23 - The Usual Suspects 17 - Croatoan 17 - Crossroad Blues 17 - Tall Tales 17 - All Hell Breaks Loose Part 1 17 - All Hell Breaks Loose Part 2 15 - Everybody Loves a Clown 15 - Born Under a Bad Sign 13 - Heart 17 - Folsom Prison Blues 13 - Simon Said 11- Bloodlust 09 - Hunted 07 - Playthings Ganked in Cold Oak Hunger Games 22. Roadkill 21. Children Shouldn't Play with Dead Things 20. No Exit

I'm trying to find a copy of the official season 4 companion to purchase. Does anyone know of any sites selling it for an affordable price?

I'm going to reply in here in case things are brought back to bitch vs jerk. I honestly dont expect the AU storyline to be one that is particularly Sam or Dean centred, nor do I think it is going to be long lasting. IMO, if we go by the pattern of previous seasons, it will be around for three episodes. The mini arc of the first three episodes will focus on rescuing Mary from the AU and the unfortunate consequence of releasing Lucifer once more. Mary's seasonal arc will probably be a rehash of Sam's season seven arc with Mary trying to cope with the torture Lucifer put her through for trapping him in there.

I'll reply properly tomorrow, but for me the writers intention comes down to one simple question. Which is more likely; Four show runners and numerous different writers all made the mistake and accidentally made Sam look bad, or that the consistent propping of Dean at the expense of Sam and Cas is deliberate. In my opinion it is the latter! I think it is much easier to believe that four show runners and dozens of writers did the same thing purposely than it is to believe dozen of writers and multiple show runners kept making the same mistake and "accidentally" let things play out this way.

Exactly @DittyDotDot! And I would further add that making a character ALWAYS right and ALWAYS sympathetic, while making the others around him look terrible is a greater sign of love than any number of "flashy" scenes. What is the point of getting to be the one jumping in to the pit say if eight years later large parts of the audience are still spend time learning to "forgive" earlier actions as several commenters in here have expressed.

I've always found the argument "Sam is the writers favourite" to be a rather weak and biased one that doesn't hold up to much scrunity, as one only needs to look at the shows narrative to date to realise this is not true. In fact it is quite the opposite, usually the characters of Sam, and later on Castiel, are sacrificed in order to prop up Dean. They are made to be the villains of the piece, so that poor Dean has good reason to feel hard done by. Furthermore, when Sam and Cas mess up the consequences are usually wide reaching and hurt many. When Dean makes questionable decisions usually the biggest victim of said decision is Dean himself. Let's look at some of the key plot lines of the show that highlight this. The Apocalypse Arc Who is to Blame: Dean: Initially it could be argued that the writers placed the blame on Dean when they revealed he broke the first seal. However, they took care to ensure that this reveal was made in the most sympathetic light possible and the blame placed on Dean was flimsy at best . He wasn't truly to blame because he was the victim of decades of torture, and it would be wrong of us to blame him for breaking under that type of pressure. It is for this reason that after season four Dean's part in starting the apocalypse is never spoken of again. Sam: Instead the writers spend the entirety of season four ensuring that the blame is well and truly shifted to Sam. They portray him as an addict who gets off on the power that comes with feeding on demon blood. He is portrayed as arrogant and callous; for example he describes Dean as "too weak" due to the influence of his post hell PTSD. The writers have made little effort to make Sam sympathetic and instead many of the audience have to spend time learning to "forgive" Sam. This arc climaxes in Sam's murder of an innocent nurse. The writers have made sure there is no sympathy for Sam's plight by allowing the nurse herself to appear while the demon hid in her psyche, rather than simply keeping the demon evil before he killed her. Supernatural Ally: Ruby She is the first major supernatural ally to act as a source of discontent between the main characters. Ultimately, Dean was proven right and Ruby was evil just as he said all along. Sam is left to look like a fool for trusting her and he gets blame for "picking a demon over me (Dean). The Purgatory Arc Who is to Blame: Castiel and to a lesser extent Crowley, but since Crowley was supposed to be a villain I'm going to focus on Castiel more. Once again there is a major conflict between the main characters in regards to handling a major issue. In this particular instance it's the question of; what are they going to do about the looming problem of Raphael and his plan to spring Michael and Lucifer out of the cage to get the apocalypse back on track? On the one hand you have the Winchesters, who as far as I can recall, offer no valid alternative to dealing with the problem. They simply object to Castiel's approach. Castiel on the other hand has a very concrete plan. He wishes to use the power of the souls in purgatory to gather the juice needed to stop Raphael. If the shows narrative were truly interested in being neutral and fair to all involved then there would have been a better acknowledgment that the brothers had no valid plan of their own. Instead of painting Castiel's plans as utterly wrong they would have acknowledged it was a plan and tried to work together to smooth things out and lessen the risks the brothers were worried about. Instead the show is more interested in sacrificing Castiel for the sake of propping up Sam and Dean. This is why sympathy for them is built by having Castiel lie to them and put them in dangerous positions, retrieve Sam's soul from the pit sans soul and of course break Sam's wall. Just as Sam was sacrificed in season 4 to prop up Dean and his pain Castiel is now being sacrificed to prop up both brothers. Of course the arc ultimately ends in disaster for Cas (thus vindicating Dean's objections) by it resulting in the Levithian debate. The Post Purgatory Debate Central Issue: Sam's decision to not follow the established pattern of going heaven and earth to save Dean. Who is to Blame: Sam If the show had approached this with the intent to keep all characters sympathetic then each of them would have had valid reasons for their behaviour. Dean's less than stellar behaviour would have still been explained by the hurt and betrayal he felt as a result of Sam's decision. Sam's decision would have also been explained in proper detail to keep the audience ability to relate to him. They could have easily highlighted that Sam genuinely believed that Dean was dead. That he saw an explosion and assumed it meant certain death rather than dimensional travel. They could have had Sam explain that he thought he was doing the right thing by allowing Dean to rest in peace, that he remembered how the last time he actively tried to ensure Dean's resurrection he spiralled into a pool of addiction and hubris and figured Dean would not want him to risk becoming that person again, that he did not want to become that person again. Then there is the fact that it was Dean's deal to save him that set in motion the events that led to the consequence. He could have explained he didnt want to risk tampering with the natural order and causing that type of widespread hurt again. A proper narrative like this would have given both brothers valid reasons for behaving as they did. However, instead they opt to sacrifice Sam for the sake of propping up Dean and giving him a reason to resent Sam. They make him the victim of the narrative who was abandoned by his brother who drove off, knocked down a dog and shacked up with the girl. Dean was then forced to team up with a vampire ally instead. Questionable Supernatural Ally: Benny. As with Ruby and Crowley before him Benny proved to be a supernatural ally who acted as a point of discontent between the main characters. It was Dean's turn to be on the creatures side, while Sam was the one who didn't trust him. Did they continue the established tradition of making the ally evil as they did with Ruby and Crowley? Of course they didn't. Instead the writing team opted to make Benny a Gary Stu cuddly vampire who was the most genuine one we saw on the show. His motives were even purer than Lenore's, as she stopped feeding on humanity for self-preservation reasons. Now the behaviours Dean earlier exhibited towards Ruby and Sam were being displayed by Sam. However, while Dean was ultimately proven right about Ruby and thus his hostility was justified Sam was wrong and thus he came across as a selfish jerk. The Possession Drama Central Issue: Should Dean have made the deal with Gadreel? Who is in the wrong: Sam Throughout the course of Supernatural possesion had been treated as something abhorrent. It had always been treated as a metaphor for rape and torture. However, suddenly it was portrayed as a reasonable course of action as Dean decided collaborating in the supernatural rape of his brother for months on end was a justified method to saving Sam's life. They also decided to lessen the pain previously mentioned by possessed humans (Meg, Jimmy) so that Sam was simply in a peaceful little bubble of his head space. When Sam finds out he is understandably angry and gives Dean hell for it! However, in order to ensure that sympathy remains with Dean, the speech goes too far and attacks Dean's personally rather than simply sticking to his misbehaviour in this situation. When the confrontation ends the camera even focuses on Dean's devastated expression. Apparently a harsh speech of Sam is actually meant to be comparable to months of Supernatural rape. Of course this makes sense because as always Dean is just a noble guy trying to save his brother and Sam is the ungrateful asshole. The writers belief that Sam's anger was unjustified is later cemented when he sickeningly calls Gadreel "a friend" and admits he "lied" about not saving Dean in similar circumstances. I have to to run out but I'll be back later to highlight how when Sam goes to save Dean against his wishes from the mark it leads to yet another apocalypse..

I wouldn't want it to be a long term thing just a one off. It would be a monster of the week type episode not a prolonged mytharc. And I'm surprised would you really not want to see Jensen try his hand at say Cas or Misha try Dean?

No, because when Lisa was in danger Sam was supportive of Dean and the stress he was going through. Unlike Dean, who was the manipulative jackass who purposely caused Sam distress. He knew from his own experiences with Lisa and Ben how he was going to make Sam feel. So let us not pretend Dean is in any way morally superior in this situation. Also let's not forget Dean is a competent hunter and Amelia is an innocent civilian. She is naturally the one in more need of his protection. If something had happened to Dean it would have been his own fault for causing Sam to leave in the first place.

And did Dean not get frantic when he thought Lisa and Ben were in danger from Crowley? In my opinion it's pretty hypocritical to judge Sam here if you don't judge Dean then.

Let us not forget that jackass season eight Dean came up with the idea of making Sam think that someone he cared for was in serious danger! If jackass Dean hadn't done that then Sam would never have needed to go in the first place ;)

I'm fairly certain the main reason they cut the purgatory storyline short was a lack of desire, on the showrunners part to separate Sam and Dean, which was why they skipped Deans time there and told it through a series of quick flashbacks.

Well one of my biggest wishes is a body swap episode! I would be really intrigued to see say Jensen's take on Cas, Jared's take on Dean and Misha's take on Sam.

A further update to my appearances list based on some feedback from @Katy M 200 + Episodes Dean Winchester = 264 Episodes Sam Winchester = 264 Episodes 100 + Episodes Castiel = 100 Episodes 50 + Episodes Crowley = 69 Episodes Bobby Singer = 60 Episodes 20 + Episodes Lucifer = 31 Episodes (including as a part of Sam and Castiel's hallucinations) Rowena = 23 Episodes Mary Winchester = 22 Episodes 10 + Episodes Ruby = 17 episodes Metatron = 15 Episodes Kevin = 14 Episodes John Winchester = 13 Episodes Amara / The Darkness = 12 Episodes Arthur Ketch = 12 Episodes Gadreel = 12 Episodes Jody Mills = 12 Episodes Meg (Demon) = 12 Episodes Chuck / God = 11 Episodes Lisa Braeden = 11 Episodes Abbadon = 10 Episodes 10 or Less Episodes Azazel = 9 Episodes Ellen Harvelle = 9 Episodes Hannah = 9 episodes. Amelia Richardson = 8 Episodes Benny = 8 Episodes Samuel Campbell = 8 Episodes Ben Braeden = 7 Charlie = 7 Episodes Jo Harvelle = 7 Episodes Naomi = 7 Episodes Zachariah = 7 Episodes Anna = 6 Episodes Balthazar = 6 Episodes Bela Talbot= 6 Episodes Billie = 6 Episodes Claire Novak = 6 Episodes Dick Roman = 6 Episodes Meg (Human) = 6 (Including Possession) Rufus Turner = 6 Episodes Alastair = 5 Episodes Ash = 5 Episodes Death = 5 Episodes Edgar = 5 Episodes Gabriel = 5 Episodes Kelly Kline = 5 Episodes Lady Toni Bevell = 5 Episodes Lilith = 5 Episodes Linda Tran = 5 Episodes Mick Davies = 5 Episodes Raphael = 5 Episodes Uriel = 5 Episodes Alpha Vampire =4 Episodes Christian Campbell = 4 Episodes Cole Trenton = 4 Episodes Ed Zeddmore = 4 Episodes Frank Deveraux = 4 Episodes Eve = 4 Episodes Garth Fitzgerald = 4 Episodes Gwen Campbell = 4 Episodes Gordon Walker = 4 Episodes Henry Spangler = 4 Episodes Jessica Moore = 4 Episodes Pamela Barnes = 4 Episodes Tessa = 4 Episodes Victor Henrickson = 4 Episodes Alicia Banes = 3 Episodes Annie / Alex Jones = 3 Episodes Annie/Dr. Gaines = 3 Episodes Becky Rosen = 3 Episodes Chet = 3 Episodes Dagon = 3 EpisodesDoctor Hess = 3 Episodes Donna Hanscum = 3 Episodes Eileen Leahy = 3 Episodes Eleanor Visyak = 3 Episodes Gavin MacLeod = 3 Episodes Henry Winchester = 3 Episodes Karen Singer = 3 Episodes Ingrid = 3 Episodes Jervis = 3 Episodes Michael =3 Episodes Samandriel = 3 Episodes Susan = 3 Episodes Tommy = 3 Episodes Aaron Bass = 2 Episodes Adina = 2 Episodes Alpha Shapeshifter = 2 Episodes Amelia Novak = 2 Episodes Andy Gallagher = 2 Episodes Ava Wilson = 2 Episodes Bartholomew = 2 Episodes Bridgetta = 2 Episodes Calvin Reidy = 2 Episodes Channing Ngo = 2 Episodes Daniel Elkins = 2 Episodes Donatello Redfield = 2 Episodes Efram = 2 Episodes Eldon Frankenstein = 2 Episodes Gerald = 2 Episodes Guthrie = 2 Episodes Jake Talley = 2 Episodes Jenna Nickerson = 2 Episodes Jimmy Novak = 2 Episodes Jonah = 2 Episodes Kate = 2 Episodes Krissy Chambers = 2 Episodes Kubrick = 2 Episodes Lenore = 2 Episodes Louise = 2 Episodes Mark Campbell = 2 Episodes Martin Creaser = 2 Episodes Max Banes = 2 Episodes Monroe Frankenstein = 2 Episodes Morrison = 2 Episodes Oskar = 2 Episodes Pestilence = 2 Episodes Rachel = 2 Episodes Rick Sanchez = 2 Episodes Ronald Reznick = 2 Episodes Rory = 2 Episodes Sarah Blake = 2 Episodes Simmons = 2 Episodes Tom = 2 Episodes Tommy Collins = 2 Episodes Walt = 2 Episodes

That is the way I've always seperated them in my mind. Destiel refers to a romantic relationship favoured by some fans and Dean!Cas refers to them as friends / surrogate family :). I'm not sure if that has changed, or us fans are just being lazy LOL. Our resident lover of all thing Destiel and Dean!Cas @catrox14 might know though :)

Excellent points made by a user on twitter https://mobile.twitter.com/bbinatrenchcoat/status/867605538477101060 So true! This show has always treated Misha and Mark like shit. The current treatment of Mark at the moment being a perfect example of it.

++ In My Time of Dying ++ Houses of the Holy -- What Is and What Should Never Be 49 - In My Time of Dying 29 – Nightshifter 29 - Hollywood Babylon 25 - What Is and What Should Never Be 25 - Houses of the Holy 23 - The Usual Suspects 17 - Croatoan 17 - Crossroad Blues 17 - Tall Tales 17 - All Hell Breaks Loose Part 1 17 - All Hell Breaks Loose Part 2 15 - Everybody Loves a Clown 15 - Born Under a Bad Sign 15 - Heart 15 - Folsom Prison Blues 13 - Simon Said 13- Bloodlust 07 - Hunted 05 - Playthings Ganked in Cold Oak Hunger Games 22. Roadkill 21. Children Shouldn't Play with Dead Things 20. No Exit

I'm actually quite sad about all of this. Maybe I'm remembering history through rose tinted glasses, but have we ever had a split like this before? AFAIK, they've always seemed amicable and the actors have only had nice things to say about the show :s.

I still think we should be cautious when it comes to judgments. I'm not sure about the guy from Arrow (maybe @catrox14 can clarify), but last year Kit Harington from Game of Thrones announced his exit after a cliffhanger death only to return to the show as it was a ruse. I don't think we can rule out this also being the same here.

A friend of mine was asking about the series regulars to date! Am I correct to say they've been Katie Cassidy Season 3 Lauren Cohan Season 3 Misha Collins Seasons 5-6, 9-12 Mark Shepherd Seasons 10 - 12 Mark Pellegrino Season 12