Luckylyn

Ianto and Gwen never seemed to have tension them, and I agree Ianto seemed fond of her. I would say that after Jack Gwen was closest to Ianto. Isn't Gwen the one who calls Ianto/Jack a couple which leads to Ianto to start fishing and Jack to get defensive?

I'm dying to find out that back story. Also, did he and Lisa meet while working for Torchwood 1 or were they already together before Ianto started working there? I still wonder about what Ianto's apartment looked like. He's the only one whose home was never shown on the show.

I found Ianto's lack of jealousy over Gwen really interesting. I remember speculating earlier in the series about whether or not the show would have Ianto/Jack/Gwen in a polygamous relationship. I feel like that presented Jack as having these forward 51st century ideas, but they end up being anecdotes. Ianto only seemed to show jealousy over The Doctor and John Hart. I wonder if its because The Doctor and JH are people who if Jack ended up with them would most likely take Jack away from Cardiff while if Jack were to get involved with Gwen he would still be around. So Ianto isn't threatened by Jack with someone unless that someone else would keep him and Jack apart. There's that scene in the Doctor Show crossover where Ianto seems jealous but I'm convinced that only happens so nonTorchwood viewers would figure out that Ianto and Jack are an item.

So Angelo knew about the Families plan enough to have the remnants of Torchwood searched for tech that would help him be immune to immortality but he didn't bother to warn Jack. Why exactly?

Ianto is unique in that he has all that background experience in Torchwood 1, and he aggressively perused working at Torchwood 3 initially for Lisa. Why does Ianto stay after Cyberwoman? I think he's invested in Torchwood itself. Even if Jack were to disappear permanently I think Ianto would still have stayed on.

Quinn's boozy mom. I remember when she was on the show Beggars and Choosers. I'm looking forward to her showing up on Arrow.

I think a show based on Streets of Fire could be really fun and interesting. The movie had this wonderful weird combination of 40s, 50s, and 80s era elements, but it totally worked. Directors, screen writers, set designers, and costume designers could have so much fun building this world. Plus, music would have to be a big part of the story telling just like in the movie. The show would take place wherethe movie left off with Cody and Mccoy driving from place to place taking jobs as mercenaries.

RTD does seem to have a very simple "Humans are bad especially governments" mentality in both COE and MD. He doesn't portray the complexities that are inherent to the storylines he creates.

That's my big issue with MD. We don't get to see the strain immortality is putting on society. We needed to see the effect of epidemics caused by people continuing to live from contagious diseases that should have killed them. Vera gave us a glimpse of that but that's dropped so she can senselessly be killed. That scene where Vera realizes the way triage is run will have to change because people won't die is a good moment, and we should have gotten more moments like that where the way people do things have to change to adjust to immortality. We should see food shortages and space issues. MD took place over a period of months and so time could have been taken to show society beginning to fall apart. They waste so much screen time with Oswald but don't bother with the essential world building needed to help the story make sense. I am so annoyed that Vera and Esther who I think had long term potential were killed off while obnoxious Rex gets immortality.

Mousey, that's a good point about Jack being rejected by past loves and on some level waiting for Ianto to reject him too. Jack's immortality is something that people in his past struggled with, and I think Jack's push/pull with Ianto could have been because of that negative romantic history. I do think the beans conversation in Day 4 was the beginning of Jack starting to get that Ianto was different from the others and more able to handle Jack's immortality. It's like Jack's on this precipice of trust and love with Ianto, but Ianto dies before Jack is able to express his feelings. In Submission and The Deadline, Ianto makes it clear that he expects that Jack breaking up with him at some point is inevitable. So both Jack and Ianto are on some level waiting for the other to end things. Ianto doesn't hesitate to jump into things with Jack even believing they have an expiration date while Jack guards himself more while not being to help getting involved with Ianto. I so wish these issues had been dealt with on the show in more than a breadcrumb fashion.

I am still unclear about what the Families were after. They already controlled banking, politics, and the media. They could accomplish their goals by other means than making the whole world immortal. I know there was a dropped subplot of the Families profiting from people needing pain mediation since they will have to suffer endlessly from conditions that normally would have killed them. I don't get what the human incinerators had to do with their ultimate plan.

I feel like Torchwood itself was just a dressing for stories RTD wanted to tell about Gwen. I don't think he graspt the depth of storytelling the organization itself could provide. COE felt like a finale and MD the spin off. I am still unclear about what the Families were after. They already controlled banking, politics, and the media. They could accomplish their goals by other means than making the whole world immortal. I know there was a dropped subplot of the Families profiting from people needing pain mediation since they will have to suffer endlessly from conditions that normally would have killed them. I don't get what the human incinerators had to do with their ultimate plan. The 456 had clear goals.

Eve Myles always comes off so well in interviews and panels. The writing for Gwen is so overbearing that I just can't like the character even though I think the actress is very likeable.

I agree the that transititon fromt he anger in Cyberwoman to the stop watch in TKKS is not given enought screen time and development. I keept thingking that SW could have been a good transittion episode if Ianto had been the one to go with Jack to meet Estelle. I totally agree. Ianto had no illusions with Jack and loved him anyway.

I completely agree. I think Torchwood and Doctor who are pretty disconnected at this point.

The idea foe MD was brilliant the execution was terrible.

I do think there was a lot of filler that ended up ultimately not mattering (Oswald). They didn't use their extra time wisely.

Other than the episode Immortal Sins, I am not a fan at all of MD. I will say that I really liked Esther's desk jockey to field agent story so of course she gets killed.

I think that COE benefited from having less episodes than MD. COE is more cohesive and sells the sense of urgency while MD doesn't for me.

I kinda wish they modeled Laurel on Cordelia Chase (Angel. BTVS) because I think KC would work better as a good hearted bitingly snarky woman. I really want to see a focus on Laurel caring about others and wanting to help through being a lawyer and eventually with Team Arrow. I think her story should be of a woman who tries to help others through legitimate means but is blocked by corruption which makes going the vigilante root tempting for her.

Despite hating Ianto's horribly written death I still think COE is much better than MD. I think Forbisher's character and the scenes of the government making the decision to sacrifice the kids were incredibly compelling.

I vividly remember the Aretha Franklin Grammy moment and it was awesome.

It occurs to me that I have no idea if Jack is human or an alien. He was born on another planet but could be the decedent of space pioneers from Earth. He could also be an alien who looks human. He could be a mix of human and alien since humans and aliens probably intermingle in the future. I tend to assume he's human, but I just don't know for sure.

I don't think Gwen ever had to lie to Rhys. All she had to say was that her job required confidentiality, and she could never discuss it with him. She made it more complicated than it had to be. I will always roll my eyes at the scene in Something Borrowed where she insists there will be no lies in her marriage meanwhile Rhys is still clueless about Gwen's affair with Owen and the retcon.