Luckylyn

I really love the ABC adaptation from years ago which lead me to read my first Stephen King novel, and so I'm weary about a new version. I do like the director's enthusiasm and appreciate his focus on character. Still I think it's a story better suited to a miniseries which they seem to realize since they are making it a 3 hour movie instead of the usual hour and half or two hour film. Plus, I loved the cast of the miniseries so much. I think the fact that I saw the miniseries before reading the book makes me biased.

I found this great video that really captures how they came together as a team.

I remember being super excited to watch this because I was such a fan of Jack because of Doctor Who. I think this first episode was promising. I liked Gwen's curiosity and determination. But for the most part I was all about Jack at this point although I did notice Ianto as well. The only thing that struck me in a negative way was Owen raping that couple.

I hate how predictably untrustworthy Simon is.

I just dropped by TWOP because a little part of me was in denial and saw the community unavailable sign. I am glad we found a good home here and hope all the old Torchwood TWOP crew makes it over here eventually. I am glad to see so many familiar screen names already. Thanks to Captanne for leading us here.

I feel like Fragments improved on Cyberwoman and filled in some of the blanks for me.

There really is some great fanfiction that did the job of developing the Jack/Ianto dynamic in ways the writers didn't bother to on the show. There's one whose title I don't remember where Ianto's about to have sex with Jack for the first time, and he keeps repeating to himself that he's doing it for Lisa. The subtext is that he wants Jack but can't admit it to himself because it would be betrayal of Lisa. There's a lot of complicated issues that Cyberwoman brought up that should have been dealt with on screen but was just glossed over.

Flame Beneath Ashes What if Ianto was retconned in season one and ended up running into Jack and the team years later? In These Lonely Hours This puts forward an interesting theory about the Jack/Ianto dynamic. Jack doesn't know if Ianto can be trusted post Cyberwoman but can't help getting involved anyway.

I'm on the fence over the whole did Ianto and Jack have sex before Cyberwoman issue. I can see how it could have just been a flirtation but could also see Jack and Ianto easily falling into bed.

The whole confrontation with the 456 was horribly written. Ianto and Jack aren't amateurs. They had zero plan except to say "No" to the 456 and no back up plan in case the 456 had a nasty reaction. Why even confront the 456 in person if you have nothing to fight with? It was such an unnecessarily stupid death. They claim he died heroically, but it was just idiotic. I don't even know what purpose Ianto served. Why did he have to go with Jack at all? Basically RTD decided Ianto had to die and was determined to make it happen even if it was illogical.

I get what you're saying. I remember at the time wondering if he was trying to discard so much in order to bring Torchwood to America, but it was too much and so unnecessary. I think killing Ianto and destroying all the alien tech except the contact lenses was just ridiculous. Killing Ianto so soon after killing Tosh and Owen was just too much. Plus, there was more story for Ianto if the writers had been interested to tell it. I think getting rid of the alien tech was just insane. What is Torchwood without the tech? It's not even Torchwood anymore and is something more generic.

I completely agree and feel like the writers only saw Ianto as useful to be part of Jack's story. I shipped Jack/Ianto but cared about Ianto on his own. I feel like we were just getting to know him and then they killed him off. I wanted more of his family dynamics. I was curious if about if Ianto kept in touch with any other Canary Wharf survivors. It grates that he's the only Torchwood member whose apartment we never saw.

This quote is from Ianto's thread. That was a serious problem with the writing because Gwen had to be the center of the universe even when it didn't make sense. The scene when Gwen sees Ianto's dead body should be about Gwen comforting Jack while grieving herself but instead Jack's comforting her, and there's no acknowledgement that Jack might be feeling intense grief. She 's not holding or soothing him. Meanwhile we're not supposed to notice that, and it's all about Gwen's feelings. I still hate her "Stay for me" line to Jack at the end of COE. Gwen who has everything standing in front of Jack who has lost everything makes his heartbreaking decision to leave under the weight of too much grief about her losing her friend. I promised myself I wouldn't use this thread to only bash Gwen. I don't mind her flaws. It's the shows refusal to acknowledge the flaws that makes her a problematic character for me.

It just blows my mind that the writers didn't realize how despicable Owen could come off. The weird thing is he almost worked. I don't mind him being acerbic but crossing certain ethically lines is hard for me to understand.

I do worry that RTD might make Jack too much of a martyr. They really pile the suffering on him and tend to make things his fault even when they aren't.

Thanks.

Forced consent is not consent. I just can't get past it.

What some may call bitter others might call common sense.

. The whole Gwen is special thing they forced really was a disservice to the character. It made me resent rather than like her.

I also added character threads for Jack, Ianto, Tosh, and Gwen. I didn't start one for Owen because I'm still torn about him and couldn't think of a title for him. I can't helping seeing him as a rapist even if the show writers don't.

I feel like she was a stealth badass. She seems unassuming but could defend herself and others with her technical skills and even a weapon when necessary. I wish she hadn't been killed off and allowed to complete her jail sentence so we could see her choose Torchwood or not. I don't know why she had to die when they could have had her simply quit when her five years were up which would leave the door open for the character to return later. edited to add: I made a typo in the title but don't know how to fix it. I meant Quietly not Quitely.

I think Gwen's defining characteristic in Everything Changes is her curiosity and that continues with her throughout the show. She always has to know. I like that she's so intensely curious but her attitude about it is problematic for me. It's not just that she has to know but that she feels entitled to know. Her self-righteousness about that and things in general can make her hard to like for me. It goes back to that Farscape quote "What makes you worse is that you think you're so much better." I feel like she's compassionate with strangers, but self centered with those who love her. It grates that she gets rewarded despite her mistakes while everyone else suffers and/or dies. Now, I want to also point out what I like about Gwen. In addition to her curiosity, I like that she's not a yes woman. She doesn't blindly follow Jack but pushes and questions. I find it interesting that she seems to be a thrill junkie which is something female characters don't always get to be. it's frustrating that the show doesn't really deal with it though. I think her true love is Torchwood and the danger it brings her.

I feel like I know Jack really well and not enough. There's so much that's unknown like his true name and his back story with the Time Agency was never fleshed out. I'm still dying to know the story for Jack's missing two years. I just adore John Barrowman in this role. I don't know if I would like Jack as much played by another actor. He sells that larger than life adventurer hero vibe so well. He can be the fun, scary, and heartfelt all at once. His journey from con man to hero is so much a part of his choices. I believe his tendency to be over forgiving of the team goes back to his shame over his con man past. He got another chance to be a better man and so offers the others the same chance.

I loved this character. He was snarky, clever, and efficient. I think GDL took a character with very little writing and made it into someone really compelling to watch. His back story was something they could have mined more out of especially since there were other survivors of Canary Wharf that he could have interacted with.