Luckylyn

This is Jack Harkness' introduction. I think it makes sense for a Torchwood rewatch to include Jack's origins.

Plus, I think the show made Gwen's issues with keep Rhys in the dark about her job more complicated than they needed to be. I don't know why she just couldn't tell him that her work required confidentiality and that she could never tell him anything rather than lie or endanger him with the truth. There still would be lots of drama from the pressures Gwen has a work that she can't share at home and tension because Gwen is more married to her job than to her husband. The lies weren't really necessary. Is having a relationship with someone outside of Torchwood selfish since you are likely to end up dead and could get your partner killed in the crossfire? That's a question the show never really explored. Was not retconning Rhys the right thing for Rhys himself? Is he better off knowing or ignorant? At least, if Torchwood brings danger home Rhys will be prepared since he knows the truth. Is it fair to stay working for Torchwood after you have children since everyone not Gwen is supposed to die in 5 years or less? I once read a fic where Ianto retires from Torchwood because he wants to have a family and otherwise he'd be dead before his son made it to preschool. Families and the lethal nature of Torchwood aren't something I can see mixing well. The challenges of Torchwood itselt; the sacrifices to be made and the potential for corruption are what I wanted to be thoroughly explored.

For me, the most interesting character with the most potential for interesting exploration that got ignored was Torchwood itself. There was a weatlh of history to be mined and how it can be a force for good or evil depending on who is shaping it. Also, a better exploration on how Torchwood and the power it gives people access to can affect characters is something I really wanted to see more of. I feel like the pilot started exploring it and how the tech can bring out the worst in people because power can be corrupting. Then, there was a shift the show became everybody dies except Jack and Gwen. I feel like the premise was how Gwen either gets corrupted or helps weed out corruption with her collegues in the beginning, but the show didn't really acknowledge how Gwen had become corrupted. I saw her critcize others for letting Torchwood change them negatviely with little acknowledgement of how Torchwood changed her for the worse. There was this message that Gwen was somehow above it while at the same time I saw over and over how Gwen was just as bad as the others. In fact, I found her worse because she acted as if she were better. The hypocrisy that wasn't really acknowledged on the show annoyed the hell out of me. I wouldn't mind Gwen as a self righteous know it all hypocrite if the characters treated her accordingly. Instead, she breaks rules just like everyone else while feeling superior and gets rewarded while the others die which reinforces Gwen's view of her specialness. I appreciated Immortal Sins acknowledgement of that, but I don't feel like it resonated. That scene happened but by the end of the episode I don't feel like Gwen or Jack and their dynamic is changed by it. They are back to being bff adventurers. I also hated the message that Gwen having a boyfriend somehow made her better than the others. Also, Jack made such a big deal out of pushing Gwen to hold on to Rhys and have a life outside Torchwood while not seeming concerned about if other members of his team have a life outside work. Rhys did not stop Gwen from being just as comsumed with Torchwood as the others. In fact, she allowed Torchwood to co-opt Rhys instead of protecting him from the dangers.

I suppose someone could start an episode thread and people who are rewatching can post in the particular episodes they want to talk about.

I'm sharing some videos I like. Please share fan art or videos you like as well. - an exploration of Owen's character. - A really beautiful take on Ianto's The Deadline speech. [url-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGGgDZ5cay4&list=LLxc9nna22ZEvHeOBCT80zyw&index=99]The World's Always Ending[/url] - A Ianto character study. - showcases Jack's bond with his team.

I've noticed a lot of fics ignore or rewrite Exit Wounds that killed Tosh and Owen and COE which killed Ianto. So, I thought a title about everyone living would be appropriate because fanfiction gives you the freedom to ressurect the characters you like best. I wanted to post some fics I enjoy and hope you post suggestions as well. I've found I really enjoy Torchwood fanfiction. Sometimes it fills in the blanks the writers left in the show for me. Happy Families - alternate universe fic where Ianto and Jack get to know each other when their siblings are getting married. I like this one because the interaction is great, and it deals with Ianto trying to adjust to being attracted to a man. Harkness and Jones - This is a different take on Ianto's job. He's not what he appears to be, and it's fun to read. Our Last Night Before the World Ends - Jack and Ianto's last night before COE begins. The War at Home - Jack and Ianto are having a cold war and Gwen is not pleased. It's an interesting exploration of some issues Jack and Ianto might have. 50 First Dates - Torchwood Style[/ur] - Ianto can't retain new memories, but he and Jack still find a way to bond. Don't Stay[/ur] - Ianto tries to set boundaries to avoid too strong of an emotional attachment to Jack. You Can Stay - The fic involves Ianto trying to navigate having an open relationship with Jack. There was a fic that involves John Hart kidnapping Ianto where they end up having adventures together called "Don't You Want to be On the Good Side for Once". It manages to be a fun fic, but it's impossible to find. If you find it please share the link.

On some level, I'm still waiting for Rhys to find out about the retcon. It's like this loose thread that won't go away even though the show won't acknowledge it. I still can't believe they had Gwen say at her wedding that there would be no secrets in her marriage sitting at a table with the man she cheated on Rhys with and Rhys still ignorant about the retcon.

I think I could have liked Gwen with all her flaws becasue she does have some good qualities. I like her intense curiosity and that she's not a yes woman. The turning point for Gwen with me was confessing her affair with Owen to Rhys and retconning him so he wouldn't remember. The affair itself was something I could easily get past, but the retconning crossed a line for me. I feel that like that was the beginning of Gwen doing horrible things without consequences. I kept expecting a big payoff that never happened. Although Jack let everyone at Torchwood get away with pretty much anything, the others suffered and eventually were murdered. Jack frequently has to suffer brutality whether or not he's to blame while Gwen is untouched. She gets to be the hero, have the husband, the child, Jack's admiration, and her life. No one else is allowed a happy ending. That took Gwen to a bad place for me. When my favorites die and she lives, I feel a strong resentment. The only character I had more trouble with was Owen because I couldn't get past the rape he commits in the first episode. I am forever troubled that the writers didn't comprehend that drugging someone into being attracted to you and having sex with them is rape.

The good ideas, the potential, and my affection for Jack are what kept me watching.

I agree with you. Mainly, I think that whatever is organic to the story should be the priority regardless of fan opinion. Fans aren't a monolith and won't agree on everything. Plus, fan opinions can change and so a writer shouldn't let fan desire rule them. The problem can be with the excecution of the writers ideas. They think they are telling one story (Gwen is awesome and she and Jack are this great team), but I'm not seeing it. So, it's important for writers to be aware of why viewers aren't buying the story they are telling and make adjustments so that the story makes sense. If the story rings true, I think fans will accept it even if they aren't thrilled with a writer's decision. The key is that the story and characters have to be well excecuted and the writer's intention clear unless ambiguity is intended. And if writers leave things ambiguous than they can't blame the fans for having strong opinions contrary to the writers. A lot watching Torchwood is looking for breadcrumbs of stories. They don't fully explore things and leave viewers to theorize and fanwank to make the stories make sense. It does not ring true to me that Jack should always suffer while Gwen can do whatever she wants and get rewarded. It's a big reason why Gwen is not rootable for me. I'm remembering a conversation on TWOP about RTD saying something like how you can't brutalize Snow White (Gwen). Meanwhile the prince (Jack) can be tortured constantly. I don't know why Gwen is spared while other characters I like better suffer and or die. I also hate shipper baiting where writers throw romantic stuff at fans of a pairing just to keep that fan base on the hook but then go nowhere with it. If you don't want viewers rooting for a relationship, you shouldn't include it in the show and then act shocked when viewers feel cheated out of the romance the writers implied had a chance. I think the writers could have benefited by trying to figure out why Ianto and Tosh were popular and why Gwen is controversal when she was intended to be more universally popular.

I wanted to mention how much I loved the evolution of the Adian/Nora friendship. There was a time where Nora litterally would have thrown Adian to the wolves. The transition from their tolerating each other for Josh's sake to them being like family to each other is really interesting. Adian's willingness to take the fall for Erin's murder to protect Nora and the way Adian and Nora had to work together for Josh's sake when he was stuck as a wolf really solidfied a bond between them. That moment in the finale when Nora hugs Adian as he cries over losing Sally shows how much things have changed between them. In earlier seasons, I couldn't have imagined Nora offering comfort to Adian or Adian accepting comfort from her. I really loved the friendships on this show. The four of them had a bond, but they all had bonds one on one as well. Even with the romances, the friendships always mattered a great deal which was a big part of the finale. Sally sacrificed herself for all their sakes and not just because she was inlove in Adian and Adian was willing to make the same sacrifice for their friends. It was the love of their self made family that allowed Sally and Adian to be together on the other side and even though they have each other they still reach out to their earthly family. I will miss this show and all the relationships romantic and platonic.

I wonder if they would change who the killer turned out to be to surprise viewers who had already seen the original. I'm really looking forward to seeing this story unfold in a more lenghtly format. Is the show getting a full 22 episode season or a shortened one?

I hate to see the show go but if it has to end this was right way. They each got their happy ending.

The only good thing about TWOP closing is that it made some less active conversations lively again. I guess you don't know what you have until it's gone. Anyway, as far as MD characters go. I disliked Rex but came to like Esther a great deal. I think she had a chance for a nice progression from desk jockey to field agent because of necessity. Jack and Gwen are so gun ho and Rex is cut from the same cloth. Esther represented the other point of view and it was something I found interesting. Of course, since I liked the character and was kinda shipping her with Jack, she's gone because Torchwood means I don't get to have nice things I want.

I figured the Adian turing on Josh would be Kenny induced, but Sally being the thing Kenny used was a shocker. I thought it was a great episode and Ramona is scary as hell.

I fully expected to prefer the original verison over the US one but I think I've enjoyed the US version more. I do feel like the storylines of this season would have worked better over two seasons and that the decision to end the show rushed some storylines. Still, it's a great show.

I have to say I'll miss this show, but it has somee great episodes. It reminds me of Farscape because both shows could be seemlessly extremely funny and then heartwrenching.

Although I like it better, COE has tons of problems. The way all the countries in the world agree is totally unrealistic. They would have turned on each other demanding that countries with a weaker military hand over their kids. Also, nobody puts up a fight or tries to come up with an alternate solution rather than just handing the kis over except Torchwood. There's no way all the countires of the would would act unilaterly and not pursue a military option. Since they made a point of showing that the 456 were adapate at viruses, it would have been better if they released a virus on earth that only they had a cure for. Then, I would get not trying for a military option because they would need the 456 alive for the cure. Of course, the resolution would have to have been different for how to defeat them, and there'd be no Stephen sacrifice. Even though I didn't like MD, Immortal Sins is one of my all time favorite episodes even though I complaing about Gwen's mishandling of the kidnapping.

Don't get me started on the whole stupidity of kidnapping Gwen's family when all they had to do was ask Jack to come. Plus, Gwen handles the situation like a moron and doesn't do a single thing to ensure her family's safety. She doesn't demand proof that they have her family and they are still alive. She has no plan in place to protect her family in the event she gets double crossed by the kidnappers. She just just blindly follows orders from people she has no reason to believe can be trusted and hopes that things will work out. Plus, she acts so selfrighteous about it, too, but I guess focusing on anger towards Jack is her way of coping with betraying him. I'm happy the twopers found a home here and that the Torchwood thread is active again.

I prefer COE over MD which kinda surprised me considering my anger about Ianto's demise. I felt a sense of urgency in COE which I think MD lacked. Plus, I liked that we got to see the governemt pov, and the process to get to certain choices. That's missing from MD. Plus, there was a lot of filler (Oswald) that ended up pointless. They could have used the Oswald time to show the effects of no one dying on the world. I think world building is where MD failed. One thing COE and MD share in common is the usual Torchwood incompetence. I still don't get why Gwen starts MD on the run and then after she's blown up a government facility on camera she's totally living in the open. Why wasn't she arrested and why weren't they hiding?

Barrowman really is intensely charasmatic. He really fits the larger than life mold that Jack represents.

A Buckaroo Bonzi reference. I love you! I haven't seen that movie in years. Perfect Tommy is one of my top character names. I don't know what it says about me that I'm still not over Ianto's stupidly written death. I suppose it says something about GDL's performance really resonated. I give him the credit over the writters because they didn't give him much to work with, but he managed to make Ianto extremely compelling. I don't want to dimish the writers contribution because it definitely matters because there would be no Ianto without them. I just think the character would have been different and not as appealing if he'd been played by another actor. edited because I mixed up Perfect Tommy and Handsome Rob from The Italian Job for some reason.

Hey Captanne, I guess all the twopers will be headed here for Torchwood and other shows. I'm glad the discussion can continue.