Luckylyn

Flame Beneath Ashes What if Ianto was retconned in season one and ended up running into Jack and the team years later? In These Lonely Hours This puts forward an interesting theory about the Jack/Ianto dynamic. Jack doesn't know if Ianto can be trusted post Cyberwoman but can't help getting involved anyway.

I'm on the fence over the whole did Ianto and Jack have sex before Cyberwoman issue. I can see how it could have just been a flirtation but could also see Jack and Ianto easily falling into bed.

The whole confrontation with the 456 was horribly written. Ianto and Jack aren't amateurs. They had zero plan except to say "No" to the 456 and no back up plan in case the 456 had a nasty reaction. Why even confront the 456 in person if you have nothing to fight with? It was such an unnecessarily stupid death. They claim he died heroically, but it was just idiotic. I don't even know what purpose Ianto served. Why did he have to go with Jack at all? Basically RTD decided Ianto had to die and was determined to make it happen even if it was illogical.

I get what you're saying. I remember at the time wondering if he was trying to discard so much in order to bring Torchwood to America, but it was too much and so unnecessary. I think killing Ianto and destroying all the alien tech except the contact lenses was just ridiculous. Killing Ianto so soon after killing Tosh and Owen was just too much. Plus, there was more story for Ianto if the writers had been interested to tell it. I think getting rid of the alien tech was just insane. What is Torchwood without the tech? It's not even Torchwood anymore and is something more generic.

I completely agree and feel like the writers only saw Ianto as useful to be part of Jack's story. I shipped Jack/Ianto but cared about Ianto on his own. I feel like we were just getting to know him and then they killed him off. I wanted more of his family dynamics. I was curious if about if Ianto kept in touch with any other Canary Wharf survivors. It grates that he's the only Torchwood member whose apartment we never saw.

This quote is from Ianto's thread. That was a serious problem with the writing because Gwen had to be the center of the universe even when it didn't make sense. The scene when Gwen sees Ianto's dead body should be about Gwen comforting Jack while grieving herself but instead Jack's comforting her, and there's no acknowledgement that Jack might be feeling intense grief. She 's not holding or soothing him. Meanwhile we're not supposed to notice that, and it's all about Gwen's feelings. I still hate her "Stay for me" line to Jack at the end of COE. Gwen who has everything standing in front of Jack who has lost everything makes his heartbreaking decision to leave under the weight of too much grief about her losing her friend. I promised myself I wouldn't use this thread to only bash Gwen. I don't mind her flaws. It's the shows refusal to acknowledge the flaws that makes her a problematic character for me.

It just blows my mind that the writers didn't realize how despicable Owen could come off. The weird thing is he almost worked. I don't mind him being acerbic but crossing certain ethically lines is hard for me to understand.

I do worry that RTD might make Jack too much of a martyr. They really pile the suffering on him and tend to make things his fault even when they aren't.

Thanks.

Forced consent is not consent. I just can't get past it.

What some may call bitter others might call common sense.

. The whole Gwen is special thing they forced really was a disservice to the character. It made me resent rather than like her.

I also added character threads for Jack, Ianto, Tosh, and Gwen. I didn't start one for Owen because I'm still torn about him and couldn't think of a title for him. I can't helping seeing him as a rapist even if the show writers don't.

I feel like she was a stealth badass. She seems unassuming but could defend herself and others with her technical skills and even a weapon when necessary. I wish she hadn't been killed off and allowed to complete her jail sentence so we could see her choose Torchwood or not. I don't know why she had to die when they could have had her simply quit when her five years were up which would leave the door open for the character to return later. edited to add: I made a typo in the title but don't know how to fix it. I meant Quietly not Quitely.

I think Gwen's defining characteristic in Everything Changes is her curiosity and that continues with her throughout the show. She always has to know. I like that she's so intensely curious but her attitude about it is problematic for me. It's not just that she has to know but that she feels entitled to know. Her self-righteousness about that and things in general can make her hard to like for me. It goes back to that Farscape quote "What makes you worse is that you think you're so much better." I feel like she's compassionate with strangers, but self centered with those who love her. It grates that she gets rewarded despite her mistakes while everyone else suffers and/or dies. Now, I want to also point out what I like about Gwen. In addition to her curiosity, I like that she's not a yes woman. She doesn't blindly follow Jack but pushes and questions. I find it interesting that she seems to be a thrill junkie which is something female characters don't always get to be. it's frustrating that the show doesn't really deal with it though. I think her true love is Torchwood and the danger it brings her.

I feel like I know Jack really well and not enough. There's so much that's unknown like his true name and his back story with the Time Agency was never fleshed out. I'm still dying to know the story for Jack's missing two years. I just adore John Barrowman in this role. I don't know if I would like Jack as much played by another actor. He sells that larger than life adventurer hero vibe so well. He can be the fun, scary, and heartfelt all at once. His journey from con man to hero is so much a part of his choices. I believe his tendency to be over forgiving of the team goes back to his shame over his con man past. He got another chance to be a better man and so offers the others the same chance.

I loved this character. He was snarky, clever, and efficient. I think GDL took a character with very little writing and made it into someone really compelling to watch. His back story was something they could have mined more out of especially since there were other survivors of Canary Wharf that he could have interacted with.

I started separate threads for COE and Jack and Ianto.

The progression of Jack/Ianto was inconsistent. Too much happened off screen and what viewers saw could be contradictory. Everything Changes, The flirtatious "Looks good in a suit/careful that's harassment" scene caught my attention. Jack flirts with everyone and reactions vary. Ianto isn't flustered and is able to banter right back at Jack. It's attraction and doesn't have to be more at this point. It did make a shipper out of me in seconds. Cyberwoman, Jack has an intense reaction to Ianto's betrayal. Jack is at his angriest. Is this because he felt manipulated by his attraction to Ianto? Was it just flirting or were they sexually involved? Viewers will never know for sure. All we know is that Jack/Ianto shoot a lot of ugly at each other, but they also kiss. We've got anger and passion. Ianto's torn between loyalty/love for Lisa and saving the world. WKKS, When Ianto sees Jack depressed over Suzie, Ianto hits on Jack. I consider this the canon beginning of their sexual relationship because I can't be sure what went on between them pre-Cyberwoman. How Ianto when from wishing death on Jack to hitting on him is not shown on screen. I accept that Ianto came to the realization that Lisa couldn't be saved, and Jack's need to kill her was understandable. Maybe Ianto's anger in Cyberwoman was misdirected at Jack and was really about the situation itself and Ianto's intense denial about Lisa. CJH, Jack says he has no one when asked by the real Captain Jack. He may be sleeping with Ianto but he doesn't see it as a relationship. In the same episode, Owen calls Ianto Jack's part time shag which Ianto refutes this. He insists Jack needs him. I find it interesting that Ianto talks about need and not love. I think he feels a strong connection to Jack but doesn't view it as love. EOD, I think this shows Ianto learned his lesson from what happened to Lisa. Saving the world is more important than personal relationships and that's why he joins the mutiny. Ianto has a strong reaction to the idea that Jack might be dead for good, weeping over his coat. I feel like however casual Ianto and Jack were about each other this episode is the beginning of a shift. I don't think Ianto knows he loves Jack until he's dead. Jack kisses Ianto in front of everyone which can be an implied declaration of how he feels but then Jack takes off to chase the doctor without bothering to leave any message. KKBB, Jack tells everyone he came back for Ianto but quickly takes it back to make it that he came back for all of them. Then he privately tells Gwen he came back for her and seems affected by her engagement. Then, he asks Ianto out. So Jack is still acting like he feels something for both Ianto and Gwen. Is Ianto Jack's choice or consolation prize? TTLM, has Jack and Ianto at their most romantic. It's basically a declaration of love. Jack is at his most expressive about how he feels for Ianto and it's wonderful to see that it's not just Ianto feeling something powerful. In Meat, we've got those scenes that seem to be the show runners attempt to show sexual tension between Gwen and Jack. Ianto's a bad ass, but then we've got Jack all desperate over the idea of Gwen quitting Torchwood. I do wonder if we're supposed to be contrasting Ianto/Jack's ability to be professional while working in a relationship with Gwen/Rhys's relationship interfering with the job. Still in the end it's all about Jack and Gwen and Gwen and Rhys. Ianto gets shot, and Jack is not that concerned. Gwen threatens to quit, and Jack is devastated at the thought. Yet, there's a scene where Tosh and Owen are discussing relationships and they make a point to show Jack and Ianto staring at each other that is supposed to convey I don't know what. Adam, Jack's love and faith in Ianto ends up saving the day, but Ianto will never remember Jack's display of devotion. Reset, Ianto tells Martha that he and Jack are just dabbling which seemed odd. Why does he imply that he and Jack are casual? Did Ianto take Jack asking Martha for the unit cap as some sort of indication that Jack thinks that it's just a fun fling? DMW, Owen claims Jack and Ianto are just shagging, and Ianto corrects him. So, Ianto goes from acting like the relationship is casual to implying it's something more serious. There are no Jack/Ianto scenes to explain this shift. Something Borrowed, Ianto in front of a group of people asks Jack to dance making it clear he's fine with the relationship going public. Meanwhile Jack spends the dance fixated on Gwen. Is this an indication that Gwen/Jack have moved on from their big emotional affair? Is Jack quietly saying goodbye to the possibility of him and Gwen as a couple? Does that mean he is picking Ianto or settling for Ianto? Who knows? The show doesn't really clue us in to what's going on in these characters heads. Adrift, I do love how happy Jack is to go Weevil hunting with Ianto, and we get naked hide and seek. Ianto chooses to help Gwen in defiance of Jack's wishes, but Jack forgives which is what he always does for all of them. I wish the show had used the scene in the captain's log of Jack just holding Ianto. That seemed more intimate and a show of an emotional bond better than sex in the hub. I don't know if the captain's log is supposed to be canon. Still, I think Ianto's a plot device, and the episode is more about Gwen's relationships with Jack and Rhys. The impact of Ianto's choice on his relationship with Jack is not given a thought. Fragments, This episode fills in the blanks for me. Ianto definitely used Jack's attraction to Jack to get into Torchwood. The interesting thing for me is that up until Jack and Ianto are trying to catch Myfanwy Ianto is playing a character to entice Jack. Once they are going after Myfanwy, Ianto drops the act and has a true moment of connection with Jack. He's exhilarated and devastated at the same time. Jack seems to alternate between interest and wariness torwards Ianto until the Myfanwy moment. Those seconds of true connection seem to get Jack to lower his guard enough to let Ianto on the team. It gives a frame to Jack's anger in Cyberwoman. EW, Ianto being all blood thirsty in defense of Jack was great. Ianto's the one in the group John Hart has to worry about most because he seriously wants John dead. COE, Ianto apparently is okay with going out on dates with Jack in public, and so I don't think he's struggling with his sexuality. He's struggling to figure out where exactly he stands with Jack. Are they a casual couple or a serious couple? Does he bring Jack home to meet the family or are they not that type of relationship? Jack simply wants to be with Ianto without having the "where are we going in this relationship" conversation. Reminding us that things ended badly between him and Lucia might be a clue why Jack doesn't want to think past the present when dealing with Ianto. Once again we don't have clarity on the characters motivations and have to rely on breadcrumbs. There are indications that Jack and Ianto were serious about each other but also indications that Jack was not as engaged in the relationship as Ianto. Then we get HOD, where Jack makes it clear exactly how much he loves Ianto but are the radio plays canon? Was HOD just a way to shut up fans who were pissed over Ianto's death and/or Jack not saying "I love you" in Day Four? Was Jack trying to keep Ianto at distance to keep from feeling pain when he died only to discover he hadn't succeed and loved Ianto anyway? That's my theory.

This felt like a series finale for me. I just don't get why everything had to be destroyed. RTD's scorched Earth policy with COE is something I never understood. Not only losing the hub but killing Ianto in one of the most stupid character death's I've ever seen so soon after killing Tosh and Owen was just too much for me. I feel like Torchwood ended with COE and everything after is a spinoff. I still liked COE more than MD. The scenes with the government making their horrific decisions were compelling and the pacing made more sense than in MD. I felt the stakes in COE even though there are tons of plot holes. The possibility of the 456 having a nasty reaction to Jack's rejection of their request for children was foreseeable. Torchwood are supposed to be the experts and have been dealing with alien threats for decades. Jack himself has tons of experience. Yet, they act like complete amateurs. One thing that drives me nuts about COE is that everyone acts like alien threats are new. The government is willing to blow up the hub and all the tech that could be used to defend earth against a variety of threats. I feel like they are acting like the 456 is the only threat they've ever known. Where was Unit? Where was Sarah Jane? Apparently, Martha and Mickey had their honeymoon under a rock and didn't know all the children of earth were being taken over and made to move and speech against their will. Jack can kill his grandson to save children but can't disturb Martha on her honeymoon to get help. I never bought that all the countries of the world would react unilaterally to the 456 threat. They would have gone to war with each other trying to force weaker countries to give up their kids before sacrificing their own.

I've watched a few movies that just don't have the time to explore all the possible ideas and might work well as a tv show. I think Equilibrium which is a movie about a society where emotions are illegal would be an fascinating show. There were ideas that were hinted at but not explored. There's the assumption that a lack of emotion prevents crime and violence. But I think a show could deal with how a lack of emotion can lead to violence and crime as well. Sometimes the ability to feel compassion or guilt can prevent violence while no emotions and only cold logic could lead to a violation of someone else. The society is patriarchal in a very rigid way, and I can imagine women don't get to be into positions of power. I think the movie missed an opportunity by not having the leader of the resistance be a woman. Also the oppressiveness of this society could have parallels to real life stories. Plus, many people would probably love not having to deal with emotions like heartbreak. So the resistance wouldn't just have to worry about the authorities, but people who want to remain repressed rather than deal with difficult emotions. Are there times when no emotions is a good thing? Exploring questions like that is something I'd like to watch. The movie My Blueberry Nights would make an interesting anthology show. The story is about a woman suffering from heartbreak who starts wandering around the country sending postcards to the coffee shop owner whose in love with her and the people she meets along the way. A tv show would allow viewers to meet the people she gets to know on her journey, and their stories. The New York coffee shop would anchor the show and allow for some regular characters to be showcased. There are so many stories that could be told with that format. Also I'm enchanted with a love story where someone is willing to wait as long as the one they love needs to be with them. I think the movie Big Girls Don't Cry They Get Even would be a great premise for a family dramatic comedy. It's about a teenage girl whose parents have divorced and her dealing with their remarriages with various step children. I loved that the lead was a no makeup, t-shirt, and jeans type of teenage girl which you don't get to see on tv. There were some interesting family dynamics that could get years of material for a show. I think Chronicle could be an amazing tv show. I loved how the movie managed to have a surprisingly realistic take on three teenage boys getting super powers. The found footage format might not work for a tv series. A combination of traditionally filmed scenes and clips the boys are shooting could work really well. Plus, others could have discovered what the boys did and have powers too like on Misfits. I think they'd be tons of story potential. It's a better villain and hero origin story than Smallville. Author Author was a movie starring Al Pacino whose wife has left him. She has a pattern of falling in love with a guy, marrying him, having a child with him, and running off with a new guy. Every time she leaves a husband she drops the kids off with their fathers who don't seem to want them until she marries her new guy. This time is different because the kids are sick of the constant upheaval, and Al Pacino despite not being biologically related to most of the kids is the only parent who seems to really care about them. The kids would rather stay with him than with their mother and her new guy or their fathers. I think a dramatic comedy about this guy trying to cope with heartbreak while fighting to hold on to custody of his step children could be really interesting. D.E.B.S could be a really fun show. I get a kick out of a campy spy school. The series could have them deal with tons of fun spy plots and outrageous super villains. The Amy/Lucy romance would happen at a slower pace but the show should be more of an ensemble where everyone gets the chance to have a story. The show should be structured like Degrassi so students would graduate from spy college, and new students would already be there to transition into lead characters.

I think a show based on One Second After by William Forstchen which deals with the aftermath of the power going out all over the world could be fascinating. It could be everything Revolution isn't. It focuses on how one community tries to survive and all the hard choices that have to be made. Tunnel in the Sky by Robert Heinlein where students get trapped on a distant planet used to test their survival skills is something I'd love to see. There are only supposed to be there ten days but are stuck for years.

Gwen always seems to default to acting like things going bad are Jack's fault and seems to forget that she pursued Torchwood. She chose the dangerous life and comes off as a major thrill junkie. She could have quit at anytime but continues to get involved in the danger. Gwen looked her happiest when she had that bazooka because I think the danger Torchwood exposes her to is the real love of her life. It reminds me of that scene in the episode when Gwen has a night off and instead of enjoying a night alone with Rhys she's bored out of her mind until Jack shows up with trouble which makes her clearly thrilled. I always understood Rhys frustration with the realization that his girlfriend would rather be at work than with him. Immortal Sins, Esther, and Vera are the things in MD I liked. Otherwise it was a waste of a potentially awesome idea.

The thing that bugged me most about MD is how much time was spent on things (Oswald's whole storyline) that turned out not to really matter while skimming over things (how getting rid of death can cause chaos) that should have had tons more focus. I really wanted to see the break down of society over time. John Barrowman is the reason I was willing to keep going with this show after COE. He's the reason I'd tune in again if Torchwood ever returned. As long as they have Jack, this show has me.

I really felt like both Vera and Esther were more interesting and had more story potential than Rex who I found obnoxious.