domina89

I am really liking this season so far. It feels like it has been reinvigorated in a good way. I personally think the original personalities of the body snatched may still be in there but no one really knows because the primes have never given up their new bodies to find out. I'm basing this on what Delilah said to Jordan about not letting her become "a face behind the glass." That implies she may still be in there but dormant. I think they may be able to recover them somehow but Abby needs to get her act together in order to be useful. I'm also wondering if this will tie in with Marcus somehow? Perhaps they will learn how to transplant his consciousness into someone else (because his body is trashed) and maybe Gabriel will be willing to help them? He may be willing to help Clarke as well but will be conflicted since Josephine is his ex.

I thought that was Gabriel, the (now old) guy that is fighting against the Primes? If so, Josephine probably wants him dead and will try to use Clarke's body to get the job done.

That's why they needed Jon, because Drogon would have roasted anyone else. Tyrion and Bran both knew this. Unfortunately Tyrion guilted (or frightened, maybe?) Jon into playing his part. I have to hand it to them, they pulled off a near perfect coup. Westeros deserves them.

I honestly wish I could just let this go, but the more I think about Tyrion orchestrating Jon into being the fall guy instead of having the guts to take Dany out himself, the angrier I get. He's mad at Dany for torching KL and for the death of his siblings (even though they actually died due to their own bad choices), so he works it out to take out both Jon and Dany and set himself up nicely in the process. I am almost to the point of believing the conversation he had with Bran while at Winterfell were the two of them plotting. Bran knew what Dany was going to do, he saw it ahead of time and we know this because we saw glimpses of KL in his visions. And then NO ONE brings up the fact that Jon is the rightful heir to the throne during the impromptu king selection even though at least 5 of them present knew about it? I wish Jon had just thrown his lot in with Dany and taken his chances- at least she wanted him by her side, unlike his ungrateful "friends" and siblings. And on another note, if the Night's Watch still exists, shouldn't Sam be forced to return as well? I seem to recall him taking some vows in front of a heart tree...

One positive thing I will say is that I liked the symmetry of the series beginning with the rangers from the Night's Watch coming through the gate to go beyond the wall and then the series closing with Jon and the wildlings doing the same thing.

So not that it really matters now, but anyone have any guesses as to the line from book one that hinted at/predicted the ending?

That's exactly what I was thinking and the only hopeful thing I can take away from this awful ending. The fact that Ghost lived and Jon let his glorious hair down were the highlights for me. Can someone get started on the alternate ending fan fiction now, please?

I think it would be a nice gesture if everyone who signed the petition or who cancelled their HBO subscription would make a donation toward Emilia's charity. That would be a positive channel for the outrage and would also make her feel somewhat better about how things are going to end for Daenerys.

Here's a great video explaining the reasoning behind why many fans believe Dany's turn to darkness hasn't been earned or handled very well by the writers. Foreshadowing Is Not Character Development: https://youtu.be/2mlNyqhnc1M

Well I get pretty violent, too, when I'm hangry. I think we are supposed to assume Dany knows Jon is uncomfortable with the incest thing but doesn't care. We have seen her make advances on him twice now despite his obvious discomfort. That actually makes it seem like Dany is trying to force Jon into a relationship knowing he is uncomfortable, which is worse. I think that is the intention of the writers- to try to drive home the point that Dany is selfish and abusive. And Jon says nothing because he's afraid of her or something? I don't know... it definitely seems like they are making Jon seem victimized and afraid to speak up. It's all part of the Dany character assassination plot, imo.

I really hope he survives. I would like there to be some semblance of hope that there's still magic and mystery left in the world or it will feel, as you say, completely nihilistic.

With all the callbacks to season one this season, the horse reminded me of young Dany getting on her white horse that Khal Drogo gave her and starting out in her brand new life. Maybe it will be the same for Arya, but with a better future in store.

I was kinda hoping to see Drogon torch the iron throne... I feel like I need a season one palette cleanse after that mess.

Me too!!!!

The more I think about it, even though I hate it, it does make some sense for Jon to be the one to kill Dany. Jon has always been associated with death - in the books, especially. He is darkly colored, solemn, wears black clothing, has a white wolf (the color of a corpse) named Ghost. Mormont's raven likes him (ravens are linked with death in many cultures). He was the character most closely associated with the WWs and NK. He's 'passed the sentence' on numerous people. Plus he has died himself! He's almost like a Grim Reaper figure. Death just seems to follow him no matter where he goes...

Maybe if this weren't a fantasy show I would agree with you, but I went into this show with the expectation that unusual things would happen. I don't compare the characters of this show to people I know in my reality, nor do I see Dany's behavior over the years as that of someone going mad. I saw someone who wanted power and did what was necessary to get it. I'm not saying she's Miss Morality, certainly, but being a conqueror requires a certain ruthlessness. Tywin Lannister did some horrible, horrible things to maintain power- wiping out an entire house, the red wedding, etc., yet I haven't heard anyone accuse him of being mad or crazy. I just don't think there's enough evidence in the show to lean this hard into Dany's behavior here at the end, even with her losing as much as she has recently. It just feels like poor planning to me. D & D are like two college students who forgot to study for the final exam and are trying to cram the night before. YMMV.

To be fair, the fact that she doesn't burn may just read to the audience that she is "special." Just like Bran is "special." This is a magical world, after all. I don't see anything in those examples as overpowering evidence that Dany will eventually go mad.

Ok, yes, I suppose they didn't really establish the Targ history with prophecy well enough for the GA in the show, but they could have with just a few conversations. Barristan knew enough about Rhaegar to be able to tell Dany how he became obsessed with prophecy, and Maester Aemon could have had a conversation with Sam about losing "Egg" at Summerhall and the possible reasons behind it. I do think it could have been established enough to show a subtle progression with Dany if a little time had been allotted for it. Something so important to the end game should have been established early and much better, imo.

What I don't understand is why D & D didn't include all the Dany prophecy stuff from the books, especially from The House of the Undying, if they knew (presumably) she was going to go crazy at the end. They could have sprinkled that here and there and really emphasized how she was buying into it and possibly becoming more and more paranoid with each season. It could have been done subtly. We know enough about the Targs and their history with prophecy to make that a much more believable path to her insanity than the one they chose to take.

Me either. He was pretty into that kiss until his brain took over. I think if given some time to process everything, he might realize it isn't that big of a deal to him since he does love Dany. Of course, now the option of giving him time is out since "crazy Dany" is showing her "true colors." /sarcasm

I think this is true of all the instances someone tells Jon he will "never be free," too, but from an ironic standpoint.

Some are hating on Jon about the Ghost situation but it is just more character assassination on the part of D & D because they didn't want to spend more CGI money having Jon in an actual scene with Ghost. Let's place the blame where it belongs... My heart broke for Rhaegal. He finally made it back to Dragonstone where all three dragons were happy only to die horribly. Cruel to him and to us. I'm also in the camp of not blaming Dany one bit if she levels KL. Sometimes the only way to purify something is by fire- Mel was right about that.

At this point I don't think Dany would have a problem with that...

So did it not occur to any of them on Team Dany to kill Qyburn the second they killed Missandei? I mean, really????? At least take him hostage... I'm not even going to complain about that sad attempt at a goodbye scene between Jon and Ghost because at least GHOST IS ALIVE. That made me happier than anything else in this depressing episode.

I suspect we are all going to pay the iron price for our devotion to this series... 🙁