Paloma

That bugged me, too, for a couple of reasons: (1) jumping from a high place to rocks below is likely to be a painful death (if you don't die instantaneously), and Laura had already said that his death from poison would not be painful and would be like going to sleep (of course, he had no reason to trust that she was telling the truth); and (2) if he stayed to die in her home, she would have had to figure out how to dispose of the body. I guess she could have dragged his body to the railing and thrown it over, then claimed it was suicide, but that might not be so easy and might still leave evidence if anyone investigated. Maybe we're supposed to assume this as his reason, but as the poison started to work would he really be thinking clearly and quickly enough to realize she would need his face to log in and so he needs to ruin his face? Obviously I'm overthinking this, but it did take me out of the story when we saw the murder play out.

My husband and I must be the only senior citizens watching this show, because the best/funniest line for us was when Riker said to Picard "Terrific. Your hands are stiff. My knees are killing me. So long as we don't have to move or shoot, we should be fine." But aside from relating to the difficulties of getting older, we loved almost everything about this episode aside from Raffi's being undercover in the typical sci-fi seamy pleasure district. Not sure what to think about Crusher's son (I can't remember if he actually said he was her son or we just assumed this), but willing to give this character and plot point a chance. Seasons 1 and 2, which we watched for the first time just recently, were mostly a fail for us. Hopefully this season will be better, but I have a feeling it will mostly appeal to nostalgic older folks like us.

I didn't get that impression. I thought it was more about Deanna wanting him to stay home with her and their daughter instead of running around the galaxy taking unnecessary risks. Of course, she understands why he wants to go with Picard, but she and Kestra have already have a big loss (death of Will and Deanna's son) and are afraid of also losing husband/dad.

Maybe he thought they were weird scuptures that were created as part of the original construction? Ridiculous, I know, but no more ridiculous than some of the other plot holes.

My husband and I recently started watching the series as a marathon (2-3 episodes a night) and think it is a mess. There have been some interesting characters and plot points, but watching it this way rather than week by week has not made it play more smoothly. Still, we decided to stick it out through the first 2 seasons because we heard that season 3 is much better.

My first thought was that his appearance and speech were caused by his past troubles with alcohol and drugs, but at least as of 2018 he was clean and doing well. So the voice and speech may be at least partly related to age--he is around 80 now. https://people.com/books/nick-nolte-2002-mug-shot-new-memoir/

I agree with all of this, and my husband (who does not read the forum) echoed your last sentence while we've been catching up on this show. In fact, he thought that "getting old" and the associated physical and psychological issues, such as increasing infirmity and losing one's sense of identity as a respected professional, is really the theme of the series (even if not the intention of the writers). Maybe he sees it that way (and I mostly agree) because we are in our 70s and retired, and for both of us our identities were very much tied to our professional accomplishments and the respect and admiration that others had for us as, respectively, VP of a large research group (him) and editor (me). People often say, "Retirement must be great. You don't have to work, and you have time to do whatever interests you." And to some extent that's true, but it's also easy to waste much of that free time and to feel like you don't have as much value as you did when you were working. Think how much greater an effect that must have on someone with such a stellar (pun intended) career as Picard!

Catching up 3 years later (we've binged most of the first season in 3 days), I'm wondering if Sutra deliberately (not stupidly) assigned the most naive and trusting one to watch the prisoner, figuring that he would knock her out or kill her to escape. That would still allow Sutra to convince the rest to go along with her plan without having to kill the synth herself (though I'm sure she did kill the synth without any moral qualms).

——except at least Thor will never leave. I'm sure this was mentioned in an earlier episode, but I forget--why can't Thor get sucked off?

I'm hoping she does not become a victim. Even though she's not a child and there's not a big age difference between them, the dynamic between her and Joe reminds me of his caring relationship with the neighbor's kid from the first season (I think) and the younger sister of the landlord or super at Joe's apartment complex in California (second season?). (I can't remember either one's name.)

Well, she is smart to try to get away from him but not so smart to tell him she knows he's a murderer when they are alone in what looks like an abandoned space. I guess she thought that he was going to kill her anyway so she might as well try confronting him with the truth...which apparently worked, since he wanted to prove to her that he wouldn't hurt her.

Did you notice that the cop standing in the back during Kathleen's final monologue seemed to wipe away a tear? I guess this really was the best performance of her career (and most likely her last one)--even Charlie seemed moved listening to the monologue.

Totally agree with this and the rest of your post, and want to add how perfect the Cranberries song was for the ending. I haven't read the earlier comments yet, but I'm sure many others have commented on the excellent use of music throughout. I could watch the series again just to listen more closely to the music.

I have no idea if I'm on the spectrum or not but I would definitely prefer it if people were more clear in their communication (especially my mother). I'm pretty sure I'm not on the spectrum, but I often drive my husband crazy with my passive-aggressive way of communicating my feelings--a form of communication that is all too common in my neurotypical relatives.

I agree about the different types, and there are also different levels of functioning and social skills. I just noticed this because he seems very much like my nephew in characteristics that are typical of what used to be called Asperger's, including high verbal ability (enabling the character to work as a lawyer) but difficulty with social skills. But you're right that he did show awareness and ability to apologize and adjust his behavior, so that's a good sign. It's hard to imagine that someone would literally put dog walking as a requirement in a lease, much less someone agreeing to it unless there was a discount on the rent. Personally, as a big animal lover, I would be concerned about rooming with someone who doesn't care enough about his dog to walk the dog himself, at least part of the time. Maybe that's why I have such a negative bias toward this guy.

It's not a good sign when the second episode is less interesting to me than the pilot, but I'll give it at least one more episode to see if future ghosts are more interesting. Also, I know it's a comedy, but the unprofessional behavior of the main character and the people in the newspaper office is annoying. Even more annoying is the behavior of the roommate, particularly the requirement that she walk his dog--why would he expect that and why would she agree to that? My 30-year-old nephew was diagnosed with Asperger's as a child and has some of the same personality characteristics as the roommate, but my nephew is friendly and not intentionally rude to others. If the roommate has enough social skills to work as a lawyer, he should also have enough social skills to behave decently toward others.

I like Gina Rodriguez, and the concept of this show has potential, but I didn't really get into it as I have with other sitcoms with ghosts or people who are "not quite dead." Part of the problem is that the human characters are either unlikable or uninteresting, aside from the main character (and even she is not compelling). Martin Mull's ghost (the jingle writer) was kind of entertaining and sympathetic, especially when his widow was introduced, but if the concept is to have a different ghost each week, that won't allow for much development of the ghosts' characters. I know the point is probably to use the ghosts as a way to develop the main character (I don't know why I can't remember her name), and we'll see if that's enough.

Oops. I will edit my post. Joyce felt like she came out of the womb ready to start some shit. Like she was raised by people in the Civil Rights Movement, but who were less violent in their efforts, and Joyce decided that was too slow and too difficult. It was interesting that the flashbacks showed both Joyce and Irene into the movement at least partially for romantic reasons, both because they were in love with Gabriel and enjoyed the free love/sex of the times. They may have also cared about political change, but it probably wasn't their main motivation. The way those flashbacks were shot, the women did not come across as cold-blooded and violent but more as naive and idealistic (though of course we were viewing these scenes through their gauzy memories, so who knows what they were really like at the time). In any case, while I could certainly understand someone being bitter about being shot by the police and paralyzed as well as being in prison for decades, Joyce and Irene did not accept any responsibility for their situation and refused to believe they did anything wrong, even when they committed cold-blooded murder. Compare that with the real-life example of Kathy Boudin, who literally was raised by people in the Civil Rights movement and became a founding member of the Weather Underground. She and another woman were the only survivors of an explosion in a building where the Weathermen were building a bomb (that might have been the inspiration for this episode), and after becoming a fugitive she was involved in other bombings as well as a robbery that resulted in the deaths of police, before being arrested and sent to prison. But she became a model prisoner and expressed remorse for her actions and their consequences. She was considered by most people to be fully rehabilitated by the time she was released, and after her release made meaningful contributions to society in the area of justice--unlike Joyce and Irene, who were only concerned with revenge.

The most famous example may be Bernardine Dohrn, a leader of the militant Weather Underground who was on the FBI's Most Wanted List. She grew up in an upper-middle-class suburb and was a cheerleader and editor of the school newspaper. (I was going to say the most famous example was Patty Hearst, but since she was kidnapped before she became part of the Symbionese Liberation Army, I don't think you can say she "decided" to become an anarchist.) Also, two of my roommates in college in Washington DC in the late 60s-early 70s got involved in the SDS; they were from upper-middle-class or wealthy suburbs in NJ and NY. Interestingly, like the characters Joyce and Irene, part of the reason they were drawn to the SDS was because of their boyfriends. And both of those boyfriends came from wealthy families (though I don't know if the character Gabriel was supposed to be from a wealthy family.)

At first she seemed like staff, but later in the episode there was a scene that made it look like she was just busybody resident. Maybe someone else can remember the specific scene.

I had a lot of conflicting feelings about the characters. Initially I didn't really sympathize with or like them because they were so rude and mean to everyone (before we knew they were killers). But then I thought about what it would be like to be stuck in a place with boring old people when you don't belong there--to me both of the women looked too young to be in a retirement home. And then I looked up the ages of the actresses and realized that one is a year older than me (JL) and the other is 2 years younger than me (SEM)--yikes! I don't think of myself as the age of someone who would be in a retirement home, but I guess it's possible. And I might be pretty irritable if I was in that situation with the other residents we saw, and being treated like children. (Actually, I'd be irritable about that treatment even if I was a decade or more older.) When Joyce and Irene were telling Charlie about their glory days, I was somewhat sympathetic because it reminded me of my college years in the protest era. My activism didn't go beyond marching, but two of my roommates were more radical--though not violent, as far as I know. But they lost my sympathy when their plot to bomb teenagers at the Model UN was revealed. I went to a Model UN when I was in high school, and it was dorky but certainly not deserving of terrorism (not that anyone is). If Joyce and Irene had expressed even the slightest regret about the plot (usually people gain some perspective on their poor life choices after several decades), it wouldn't have been so bad. But they really were just murderers or attempted murderers without remorse.

I keep telling myself I'm done with this show because honestly I just don't like it but then another person talks about how good it is and I'm like fuck maybe I should give it another try but once he hit the dog I was like nope I'm done. But now I have to yet again rethink this. Dammit lol! I'm hoping that there will be no more animal abuse (even if only suggested) in the remaining episodes. If something similar happens again, I will definitely be out despite otherwise enjoying the show.

Pretty sure she referred to her partner as "he", but I could've misheard it. Just finished watching, and she definitely referred to her partner as "he" (not just in this episode). Well, she is a public figure and a fan of the franchise and she has moderated panels that many of the actors were on, so some of them knew her. Star Trek has always had an agenda. A clear and definite agenda. Rodenberry had an agenda, he had something he wanted to say and he said it in a series of morality plays. A lot of the actors and writers and (so on) have come out in support of this vision at various times. I think her appearance as President was meant to be a fun cameo and tribute to her being a big ST fan, and not part of a political agenda except to the extent that her character was another example of the diversity and equality of the ST universe. I'm trying to tread lightly here because of the moderator's warnings, but I'm a bit disturbed by the idea that having Abrams appear in this role sends a message to half the country that ST isn't for or about them. Which half? What is it about her that makes her so unacceptable in even a cameo role to half the country? I'm not being naive (I'm pretty sure I know what the original comment was getting at), but I just think it is very sad if half the country would be turned off to the show for this reason. There are plenty of good reasons to be turned off to this show, primarily the bad writing and too much time spent on feelings, but I don't think SA's cameo is one of them.

Ha! I didn't even think of that. Thanks for the explanation. This is an episode where I felt like I missed a lot.

I agree that this is not a good look for a woman in command (or really anyone in command), and Burnham should not be in charge of this mission if she can't make the hard and necessary decisions. I also agree that Booker has committed crimes against the Federation and endangered all, but (as weird as this sounds) I don't think that means he's not a good man. He's been acting out of grief beyond what any of us viewers can imagine--not just the loss of family and community, but of our entire planet--and the determination to not let it happen to other planets and their inhabitants. He may be misguided, but Burnham's insistence that she and the Federation can communicate and make an agreement with a species that is completely unknowable so far seems equally misguided. Maybe the reason I'm not willing to see Book as a bad man is that he loves and protects a cat!