RHJunkie

Thomas and Katheryn are both quite the pair. One uses her child and pregnancy to manipulate while the other thinks that the silver lining to the state not allowing him custody is that the mother of his child is not entitled to any kind of money. It's hard to pick a side because they both come across as self absorbed assholes. Jennifer proved Thomas' point the moment she ran to the corner to call Katheryn. Thomas approached her about an issue he had with her. He didn't complain about Katheryn or say anything about her that would justify calling her to give her a low down of the conversation - in the heat of the moment no less. What person with a fraction of sense would call their pregnant friend who just had a hospital scare to gossip about someone they know their friend has strong emotional reactions to? She is not a friend. It seems like Jennifer is more trying to keep herself as a wedge between Katheryn and Thomas than she is about being an actual friend.

I personally don't think Eileen was on board with promoting a fake illness but I also think that Eileen may have thought that the mention of M would fall on LVP and Kyle and perhaps didn't do as much to dissuade it as she would have it she had known what the fallout would be for her friend LR. This is how I see think things shook down: - LR discussed M with Kyle separately, Kyle and LVP together and Eileen separately. LR was relaying all of her conversations to Eileen. Now if you're friend is relaying conversations with you that give you pause, would you bring that to their attention and tell them to be careful? Wouldn't you both later on corroborate your story to say 'hey Eileen warned me'. The only reason they haven't done this is because Eileen didn't warn LR at the time OR they don't want to directly admit that Eileen was also involved in the M conversation before filming, separate from the LR/Kyle/LVP conversations. -Once LR sees the reaction LVP and Kyle gave her on camera, she goes back to Eileen. Eileen decides to discuss it with Yolanda first because LR and Yolanda aren't on the best of terms. Eileen being the involved cheerleader she is wants to soften the blow and plead LR's case beforehand in hopes that Yolanda would go easy on LR. Then Eileen tells LR to speak to Yolanda after the fact after she's attempted her damage control. -Then the affair inquisition happened; Eileen gets offended and immediately questions LVP's intentions because of everything she's heard from LR. Eileen uses this offense to now ramp it up and start being very vocal with LR using terminology and encouraging LR to speak out. -LR first tries to dig herself out of the hole without attacking because at this point, she's still friends with both Eileen and LVP. So she begins using soft prompts and terminology to insinuate equal blame on Kyle and LVP for having the discussions. Both keep the same story and say that they never entertained the possibility of Yolanda having M. Now LR is starting to get mad because in her mind, talking about Yolanda's selfies and degree of illness is the same as talking about a conversation that suggests that someone is making up their illness for attention. -Now LR has totally bought into Eileen's guidance and goes for the throat but she suddenly moves her fixation from Kyle/LVP to just LVP, officially recalling every little word said to her (repeated via her own interpretation of the word, tone and all) to suggest that she's a meek sheep who was manipulated into doing something she didn't want to do but felt she had to do. This is LR's biography on OWNING IT.

Disease refers to quality, habit or disposition that adversely affects a person's behavior, mental state, etc. I wouldn't say it's a disease in the medical sense though I've seen medical theories surrounding it (nothing really substantiated thought) - but it has the components that address the concept of disease. Some diseases you can cure (obesity is also considered a disease), some you can manage through lifestyle changes (alcohol, diabetes) and some have limited personal accountability in your progress (cancer).

It seems like Eileen's reaction to the revelation on screen was scripted on her part. The more she talks, the more she implicates herself in having knowledge of the M discussion before filming happened and revealed on camera. If she knew of all of these 'manipulations' that were taking place off camera, why didn't she advise LR to give pause, shut down the M talk and not to bring it up again? Because if Eileen did try to shut it down, for sure LR and Eileen would have said so by now. If she was picking up on all of these things that LR was talking to her about before filming then obviously there was some conflict on LR's part when relaying the stories to Eileen which makes me think that LR would have also shared with Eileen that she was going to or felt the need to address the situation. LR is just spinning a web for herself. Why can't you say what LVP said to make you 'think' she was telling you to do something? You already said that she didn't say it to you directly so at least tell us what was said (or your version of it) so that we can figure out where you fall on the 'stupid scale' to have read between the lines to interpret a comment in a manner that led you to do something that you feel you wouldn't have otherwise done or wanted to do.

It seems that Kim and LVP are in a better place with one another. It's probably likely that they pulled out their brooms rather than have an actual conversation about they've both said about each other but based on Kim's appearance on the show and at the reunion, there was no friction. At the party, Kim seemed to be hanging out with LVP most of the night and they were laughing and talking to one another. Kathryn became involve because of her emotional reaction - Eileen and LR tried to piggy back on Kathryn's positivity and well wishes for Kim. LVP probably didn't feel involved in that particular situation where she felt the need to say anything. I feel that LVP doesn't directly jump in with commentary like that unless she's involved some how where her well wishes are questioned (ex. Taylor, Kim in the past).

Having seen Kim's context of saying 'this is not a soap opera' I actually agree with her. Eileen, like LR seem to exaggerate but they do it in different ways. LR exaggerates stories, Eileen exaggerates speech and reactions. The funniest thing was that she had exaggerated reactions to a few instances on that reunion alone. Her reaction to Kim's comment was a soap opera style reaction. Her reaction to LVP saying 'I thought we were good' was soap opera style reaction. Another time that jumped out at me is when she responded to someone by saying 'how dare you'. Everything about the words, tone and directness was like a scene out of a soap opera, as if she were delivering a line, lol.

Essay ahead, lol. I felt Kathryn was honest and sincere in her emotional reactions to Kim and Kyle's relationship and she made sense when clarifying when she stuck up for Kim at the lunch discussion. Also, looking at the flashbacks, After watching the flashback of Eileen and LR addressing Kyle about Kim's arrest and relapse, it dawned on me on uncompassionate they both were about it....to her sister of all people. Even when the discussion was going on, both seemed very disinterested and it wasn't until Kathryn chimed in her support and well wishes did they also join the sentiments which didn't come across as very sincere. Kim seems to be doing better and I hope she can find the support and courage to stay on track. It's a disease that really attacks your mental well-being more than anything else, Kim has her faults aside from that but I wish her the best. Eileen's explaining taking issue with LVP's dismissiveness is fair and I understand that, however, her commentary from her blogs, TH's and on the reunion don't match up. Eileen repeatedly says 'you have to know that I knew about M thing long before it was discussed with me on the show'. If all of this happened before filming, then Eileen likely knew about it before filming which means that it's likely that she immediately looked sideways at LVP at that dinner because she was already building her own opinion of LVP based on what LR told her behind the scenes. Eileen using her experience to label it manipulation doesn't make sense. It's not as simple as reading the definition online and taking each word literally. Manipulation is the desire to control people and situations. LVP was not 'controlling' the discussion with Eileen in a manipulating sense. She as dismissing the conversation - that doesn't make her manipulative in that scenario, it makes her aloof and insensitive - these are two things that we already know of LVP. Also, taking offense to the comment LVP made about abuse in her blog - I didn't really think she was scolding Eileen - I think LVP is expressing her confusion in sharing such traumatic experiences which often feel like reliving them. That is actually pretty consistent with what she said to Kim and Kyle about sometimes you need to brush things under the carpet because if you can move past something, why rehash it and get upset all over again. The more things are explained, the more I believe that Eileen claiming good intuition with LVP is about the same as Erika claiming so. Eileen's opinions were formed from LR's confessions with her and Erika's were formed by her experiences with Yolanda. Erika seemed more cold and calculated when she jumped in talking about LVP than Yolanda did when she was going all Dr. Phil morality police. I was surprised that Andy Cohen called out LR on her Rubio spiel. He was dead on. The 'own it' queen wanted to make quick work of the many unsavoury things she's said in the past and I think it's because individually they don't seem so bad but collectively, it seems like a pattern of untrustworthy and judgmental behavior. Last season, she was really involved with something that wasn't hers to become so involved with. It's fine that she called Kim out. Kim deserved to have someone be honest with her - but the degree to which LR went with Kim is in the realm of obsessive and insane. To even continue that into this season when Kim hasn't been around her is also crazy. And on the subject of LR, LR finally said - she admitted that LVP didn't tell her to do anything specifically or directly. Yet LR seems very insistent that LVP's suggestions were a lot more obvious even if not direct. So the question, will she ever give example? Because all she kept saying was 'you know'...LR if you know...why won't you say it? Maybe next episode we'll see her say something concrete rather than be vague but I feel that she needs to be vague in order to continue pushing the manipulation theme. I don't doubt that LVP spoke to her about it and then she had her own side comments that could be taken as directional in hindsight - but the I think the reality here is that LR jumped on any crumbs that LVP gave her in order to move forward with her own agenda. She just doesn't want to take the fall on her own when she knows that LVP and Kyle have also talked about Yolanda - but she's equating the context of their conversation to her Manchuasen conversation which is not the same.

If they make this entire season and cast friction about fake shit on someone's hat, they've hit a new low with this franchise. I keep thinking that surely they would had to have had some good footage for a TV show otherwise why go ahead with the release? I will say, Cary's husband made me laugh when he took over her closet segment. He really does know his fashion - he was on top of all of the outfits talking about designers, prints, etc. Cary's commentary about her husband was also funny. It's the only scene so far this season where I wasn't thinking 'this is stupid'.

First Lydia says she talks about the girls but she doesn't think that's gossiping so she's admitting that she does engage in conversation that has to do with the other women. She claims that she doesn't know what Jackie and Chyka are referring to but she had no problems denying Gina's claim that Lydia had told Gina about the 'gossip' in question. How can you deny something if you truly don't know what they're referring to? And one of the few times that PF actually makes sense - Lydia stood by while the women went at PF for defending Lydia. Lydia had no voice when the other women were speaking up but the moment PF called her out for keeping mum, she blew up at Lydia. The funny thing is that her first defense was that she doesn't deal with conflict the way PF does but then she reacted toward PF the same way PF would react, lol. It very much seems as though Lydia doesn't speak up confidently against the other women because she knows she's guilty of the accusation AND she knows that the women will take her on. She knows that PF values their friendship and she took advantage of that by lashing out at PF when she should have used some of that fiestiness to defend or squash the conversation at the time it happened. I really liked the scene with Gina and Gamble. They had a spat and somehow avoided a big production out of it. I wouldn't expect it but I hope that Gina expressed her regret to Gamble about her change in behaviour the same way she admitted that to the camera. I really like Gamble. She seems like a genuinely sweet, laid back and good natured person who can still speak up when she thinks someone's trying to wrong her.

She was diagnosed in 2012 but has she given a time/year where she says she was 'suffering from' Lyme Disease? I've heard the effects are sometimes gradual so maybe that could be the case where she wasn't feeling the effects of her disease at that point? Perhaps also explaining why Bella is suffering from the same disease yet is still very active and out and about all the time?

I think LR just lacks self awareness. I think she's being truthful to herself and that's why she doesn't understand that saying 'I own it' is completely diminished by following it up with 'she made me do it'. She has misspoken several times to a point where even her own husband has gone on the record to correct her comments. That to me suggests she is a woman that is so involved in her own perspective that that's the only truth she can acknowledge and that's the only truth she feels exists. I think she wanted to play a similar role to what she played in Kim's storyline last year where she was heavily involved but the controversy was centred around another person. Similar to how her interactions with Kim made Kim a focal point, I think she expected to bring up the M topic which would naturally focus on Yolanda except Yolanda was hardly around to make it the centre of attention, she didn't get Kyle and LVP on board acknowledging the legitimacy of the M diagnosis and she got huge blowback from her colleagues and fans.

Hmm, that does sound like a pretty interesting insinuation. LR and Eileen were really trying this season and maybe that's part of the problem. Their behavior doesn't match the circumstances. Maybe there is more stuff going on behind the scenes but in a cast of 7 women, only 2 behaved the way Eileen and LR did and it makes me wonder now that I hear that tidbit of information.

Rinna actually said that? Because that kind of counters what Eileen claimed in her last blog - where she spoke for both herself and LR. I can't remember Eileen's exact words but I did interpret her blog to mean that they weren't coerced or pushing an agenda but that they were just telling the truth without any rewards promised. Come to think of it, you're right - both women have centred themselves in controversy without much sharing of their own selves. They've piggy backed storylines and involvement using LVP's character, Kim's substance abuse, Brandi's inappropriate big mouth, the tense Kyle/Kim relationship, Yolanda's illness.

I think LVP knows when to be calculated with her words so that when it's time to deny, she's being truthful in how she relays back her words but she's being dishonest with the intent behind those words. I don't think LVP does anything specific to make herself look good and others look bad. I think she looks good by proxy because how the others tend to react, lol. When you engage with someone, you have to be smart about how you do it because you can end up looking like the bigger fool even if you had good intentions. Sometimes good points get lost in a bushel of stupid antics. I think that's where Eileen lost. If you keep your cool and if Eileen had not been so engaged in the LR thing, she would have exposed LVP more without any detriment to herself. If Eileen had called LVP out well, the worst thing LVP lovers would have had on Eileen would be to call her a 'jealous hater' or something stupid like that. Truthfully, I can't recall specific lies that LVP has told to make herself look good and others look bad (you may have to jog my memory) so it may be a combination of lies and reactionary behavior but I can only vividly recall the reactions that I've seen that have led to other women getting blasted for it.

Unless she said that Brandi was not wrong or shouldn't have done it, then I don't see that comment along as a stamp of approval. We're breaking down the details here to analyze but there's little difference in one of the cast members speaking common sense and when we viewers do it. Common sense suggests that if there are areas of your life that you don't want the public realm to know about, it's better not to go on a reality show where your life is being documented and up for criticism and speculation. Acknowledging that doesn't diminish or cancel out the fact that what Brandi did was wrong. It wasn't her place to share that information with anyone. If she claimed that she saw the papers and they were lawsuit papers, then she deserves the criticism. If she was repeating information that was told to her, then I don't see that as a big deal. If she was advocating for information that was told to her rather than what she could verify herself, then she definitely deserves criticism for that. LVP is no innocent wallflower though I eel that the people who have strong opinions of her either way take details to fit their narrative when not everything is that big of a deal. People do this a lot with Yolanda. Perhaps no coincidence considering that both are considered the most strategic and underhanded of all the women but still, I don't think any of the women are strategic in every little thing they say. But to be clear, I know that LVP isn't one to let a cheap shot opportunity pass her by!

I disagree. Kris is not going to sell recipe books because Nicole's name is printed on one page of her recipe book. Kris has catapulted herself to levels of fame and fortune via her family and that's why she's going to sell recipe books. Kris isn't cashing in by using her friend's name. At the end of the day, they were friends and given the context and the fact that it's been 20 years, Kris paying a small tribute to her friend, not trying to cash by using Nicole. That's the difference between Kris' mention of Nicole and Faye's books about Nicole.

Why are grown women engaging in Twitter feuds??? LVP with her passive aggressive remarks and Eileen stupidly taking the bait. Both women are at fault. One can't seem to muster any real sincerity on the situation and the other can't even admit to having handled anything wrong. As a viewer, Eileen is most infuriating of the women because she's advocating under a guise of integrity and ethics but she's exhibiting the same kind of behavior that she is condemning. To stand for either side loyally is choosing to ignore one wrong over the next. Eileen started with a fair point and has diminished a lot of that by her subsequent behavior and aggressive involvement in matters that don't involve her. To call someone manipulative and then have hours of footage of evidence of YOU pressuring someone to act or speak out in a way that you feel they should could be seen as the same kind of manipulation that you're accusing someone else of. I think that LR would share information with Eileen based on her own interpretation of events and comments but I don't think LR was suggesting manipulation or anything of that kind. I think Eileen created those labels and now LR has adopted the same terminologies and accusations. Now they literally stand as one voice. I still can't get over how someone can claim to be speaking the truth when the truth is based on one person's account of what happened. Can't wait for the second installment. Eileen seems to get bitchy with LVP in response to LVP saying she thought everything was good. Her sarcastic reaction is ironic considering that she said a number of times to LVP that they were good, lol.

Dawn is a piece of work. She basically apologized for making fun of someone in an environment where other people heard her. Criticizing bad behavior or character is one thing - but to make a joke about someone's physical appearance is beyond immature. The saddest part is that Dawn sees nothing wrong with making a comment about someone's appearance just because she was 'just joking'. And she even had the audacity to get offended by Stacy telling Misse. Most people would want to know if someone was saying something unsavoury about them. I know that if a stranger was willing to take a go at me for the sake of 'humour' without even saying hello to me first, I would definitely want to know and readjust my approach. I'm going to blame Tania's stupidity on her pregnancy hormones for now. An accent is not the same as one's looks and I find it hard to believe that this would need to be explained to anyone. I really like Seema so far. She's got the career, she seems to have a solid relationship with her family and despite her success she seems very humble and welcoming to people.

I believe Kathryn was only speaking in context of what was being asked of her because people were curious as to how she was involved and her connection to Faye. That connection was the book, not the murder or case. In that respect, I think it's understandable that she wouldn't have to state the obvious - which is that the biggest tragedy was the deaths of Nicole and Ron. I don't think Bravo wants to get that deep anyhow but they needed to have it discussed in some context to explain what made Kathryn an 'interesting' addition to the cast. I think Kathryn saw the conversation as a platform to share her experience and feelings. In the grand scheme of things, she and her ex were a very minute detail to a massive story, yet such a small detail had an astronomical effect on their marriage.

I seem to recall LVP saying that she spoke to Brandi about what she did but she didn't turn on her or call her out in front of the group. LVP clearly holds a different standard when it comes to her friends, vs. acquaintances vs. people she doesn't get along with. If you're the latter two, she'll call you out point black if she thinks you did something wrong. If it's a friend, she'll say that she addressed the situation with said friend to express her disapproval but in front of the cameras and with the other women, she doesn't ever pile on but does the opposite of either keeping silent or trying to redirect the onslaught. Maybe she is more honest with her disapproval away from the women and cameras but it still isn't a good look to go from 'quiet and supportive' with a friend like Brandi to constantly criticizing past and present behavior just because they're no longer friends.

You'll have to refresh my memory of exactly what went down with the hotel thing because I can't remember anything offensive that set Eileen apart from the other two women that left right alongside with her. Even if t was a dig in reaction, the whole storyline and fallout was all based on Eileen's reaction which only Eileen can control. It's not like LVP only throws shade undercover. When Eileen said she couldn't make it to the protest, LVP clearly took a dig at her by discrediting her reason for not going. Her comment implied that Eileen didn't care about the cause, but I think it also implied that Eileen wasn't going because it was LVP's event. Eileen isn't getting blowback because LVP was pushing the issue. Eileen is getting pushback because no matter how much you nitpick LVP's initial questions, it's because of the many failures of Eileen when it came to handling the situation. The most damaging was how involved she became with the Manchausen discussion AFTER the dinner incident. That came across as a calculated move. Cheating isn't good but it doesn't label someone's character. Promoting someone as a manipulator is a smear to their character so why treat LVP's calculation as being a worse offense than Eileen's? How do you call someone your friend and assume the worst intent of them, then share it with others and call them manipulative followed with a 'but don't get me wrong, I like LVP'. Are you kidding me? This is an example of why Eileen has been the worse kind of behavior to witness on shows like this. She is projecting the same behavior in the very same breath that she is condemning someone else for. She's similar to Yolanda and Kenya - they exhibit poor behavior and want everyone to believe in their integrity, honour and appreciation for honesty. Don't ask people to own up to something if you can't own up to your own faults in the situation either.

You're using your 'evidence' from a reality show. These shows aren't built on existing friendships. They bring people into the fray (sometimes exaggerating connections to make sense of the 'new girl'. Every single franchise has admitted that not all the women keep in contact outside of filming. They are co-workers. None of the women are expected or should be judged negatively for not pursuing or building a relationship with any of her co-workers if there wasn't something there during filming that would inspire a relationship off camera. Why treat it as though it should be seen as a negative? There are people that I work with that I like a lot but our connection is forged primarily through our jobs. While we hang out, we do so at the convenience of our work day (lunches, after work dinner/drinks) but we don't call each other up to hang out on a Saturday. What assumption would you make of me? What public sentiment was against Eileen that she would try to throw her under the bus after a pleasant first season with her? What did LVP benefit from that? Because once Eileen addressed her concern, LVP didn't talk about that kind of stuff anymore. LVP didn't gossip with the other women about it either so it's not like she was using it as a means to take Eileen down or have the women turn on her. She also didn't say anything disparaging about Eileen in her THs other than calling her a dog with a bone because she wouldn't drop it. Well document by who? Are we going to pretend that a collectively shared opinion is actual evidence of someone's intent?  For all of the evidence you give, I could give examples to counter them and challenge those theories. If you believe that literally everything out of someone's mouth is calculated then naturally you will take everything out of their mouth and find a way to make it negative. This isn't specific to LVP but just generally speaking. I'm in no way defending LVP's approach at that dinner, but to pretend that this entire thing transpired solely by LVP's is way too far out for me to get on board with. I can prove all the ways Eileen handled the situation poorly but neither of us can prove the intent of anyone. So why is so much being overshadowed by a single detail that not a single one of us can prove? To make it all about LVP is really pulling strings and theories to fit whatever narrative we want to believe. How about we pull away for a second and instead of defending either woman we just admit that neither of them behaved like a 'friend' to one another.

Are the feelings of the innocent more affected by the questions asked or the answers being given? Are the feelings of the innocent more affected by a stranger asking the questions to their family or their family engaging? The way a situation unfolds is based on the interaction of the many, not the one. For all the reasons why LVP was in the wrong for her questions, did Eileen handle any of it well in the moment or after the fact? Engaging in a conversation that you feel is damaging to your loved ones - that's on Eileen. Not addressing the actual issue she had with LVP's questions - that's on Eileen. Saying that the situation was done and settled but feeling the opposite - that's on Eileen. Many times the women have refused to share or engage on certain topics or stories. I can understand Eileen trying to be open but if she's that concerned or uncomfortable, the onus was on her to put a stop to it. We are only responsible for our words, actions and feelings. If she had been true to herself from the get go this would have been over at the get go because LVP wouldn't have gotten past her second question. Eileen's behavior exhibited all of the stereotypical qualities that men accuse women of having - not saying what you really mean and expecting people to read your feelings rather than accept your words.

When LR was repeating Ken's comments about her, LVP said 'I don't think he called you a wanker'. Ken said the words to LVP, they made it to camera and LVP questioned whether he actually used that term. Safe to say, as humans, we forget sometimes. I thought LVP's questions to Erika came off sounding far more harsh than toward Eileen as it a 'gold digger' type of nature to it though LVP was complimentary of Erika and Tom as a couple afterward. I don't think every single word or question has to have an ulterior motive. I'm sorry, I just don't and I would say the same for all of the women. I could turn all of the women's comments into something nasty, it doesn't mean that was the meaning behind their words. And to the second point, LVP has built relationships OFF camera as well (Joyce, Kathryn, Taylor, Carlton and she continues to work on her friendship with Kyle on and off screen). If LVP is standoffish to some of the women, it's not fair to make that as a blanket statement when it doesn't apply to all of them. LVP works several jobs and has another show, maybe she simply gives more time to the women she gets along better with or there is a mutual interest in knowing and supporting each other. Some friendships take longer to build because you don't always have an immediate fondness for someone. And to end this point, if your scenario did in fact apply to LVP and Eileen, why in the world would Eileen refer to LVP as her 'friend' and feeling hurt because she didn't expect that from a friend?

I understood you perfectly fine :) In the highlighted sentence, I was suggesting that it's very possible that LVP knew that the questions may make Eileen uncomfortable but she asked them anywhere. I personally wouldn't take offense to someone asking me about anything that I've already put out there but I understand how Eileen would not have appreciated it. Knowing that those kind of topics are sensitive (public or not), I think LVP could have avoided the entire thing by prefacing her questions with a disclaimer of sort to let Eileen know that she wanted to get to know her more personally and to just tell her to stop if she doesn't like it for whatever reason. Though LVP doesn't think like that, lol. At least had LVP acknowledged that it was a sensitive situation, Eileen may have appreciated the gesture as one of a friend.