RHJunkie

Caught up with the episode last night. I didn't even realize that it's a thing for the women to hit on the Bachelor of the hour so seeing Brendan's plan in action was pretty genius. It was great to see a guy thoroughly enjoy himself at a Bachelor party without needing the attention of a bunch of women as a stroke to his ego that even though he's taking himself off the market, he's still 'got it'. It was sweet that of all things, that trip reinforced his feelings and desire to have a future with Morgan. What's a better word for thirsty and annoying? Because that's Bianca. She's trying really hard to stir up controversy with everyone she's with. She claimed she never said a bad thing about Dorothy but she had just called her a monster in her previous conversation with Johnny. Looks like next week Morgan immediately cops to what she said which doesn't surprise me because when Bianca called her out, she didn't even try to deny it. Morgan can be insensitive but she seems consistent with owning her shit it seems.

I'm so glad you pointed that out with an example and referencing the WWHL segment (I didn't see it myself to comment on Luann's words) because a lot of people throw around the word hypocrite when in truth, hypocrisy is when you preach and base your opinion of others to your particular moral standards but behave opposite to those beliefs. It's a harsher degree of being contradicting because in this case, you are contradicting your supposed values, and your values define your character.

I know Kendell and Kylie wasn't apart of the strategy on how to turn their family famous but they're old enough to realize what the situation is. Their mother and sisters didn't meet a camera they didn't like when it was for the sake of building their names and brand in Hollywood. It's those people that has afforded them the lifestyle and opportunities they have now because they gave them the platform to reach people on an international scale. They worked to get that attention. Now that they've become famous, they can't decide to turn it off as though the cameras have now become a burden. Sure, it may suck but that was the sacrifice they made for their fame and I can't sympathize with the mom and big sisters when they talk about the cameras. In fact, it gets me incredibly annoyed when they dare to complain about any of it. Kendell and Kyle may be a product of what their family has created but they've certainly grabbed a hold of the opportunities that the fame has provided so put your big girl pants on and deal with it. Kendell's reaction was over the top considering that they didn't show anyone invading her personal space or harassing her. There are many celebrity families where one or more members made a conscious decision to remove themselves from the exposure that the rest of their family embraces. That is an option that none of them have ever exercised so they need to quit whining. If the girls honestly wanted to go undercover to be 'normal' they would have never done it on camera. It comes across as a superficial and insincerely manufacturing this notion that they would rather be normal people, living normal lives when they relish the celebrity far more than they begrudge it. Kourtney and Khloe's workout - both seemed to be moving at a similar pace but Kourtney barely seem phased while Khloe was panting and struggling to speak. Makes me think that Khloe's exercise regime did not include much of HIIT or cardio because those are the two things that you need to build endurance. Strength training can definitely burn fat and tone the body but it can't ever build up your endurance and stamina. Scott's insecurities are self-inflicted. Khloe is right, he's taking issue with many things without showing any interest in trying to make things better or find his place within the family. What kind of gesture is he looking for from them to make him feel like things are normal?

And so what? My point was that age wasn't the real reason behind Luann's disapproval of the relationship. It makes zero sense that that would be the issue because Carole is hardly the only friend of Luann's who has dated a much younger man. Yes, on the face it would seem hypocritical but again, there's little reason for me to believe that the age was an issue. Age was used as the primary detractor in hopes that Carole would end the relationship. But if you want to argue that particularly point, the age difference between Luann and her ex was small enough that it would be unlikely that he would be old enough to be her father. The age difference between Carole and Adam would most certainly make her old enough to be his mother (there are a lot more 21 year old women having babies than 16 year old boys). And if you want to add another factor - you are comparing a relationship where two parties saw a future together with marriage and children to another relationship where there are only about "5 good summers left". What your describing here is not hypocrisy.

Yeah, I don't think Sonja would have been exposed to any secrets from her involvement in the summit but I can see why Bethenny would take issue with it due to the gesture she offered to Sonja. Given the circumstances, I don't think I would have reacted the same way (unless there's more to this we don't know) but I know that there are many people would have taken the same kind of exception that Bethenny did so I'm willing to give her that because she has clearly made her company her world.

I don't think Luann was faux angry, I think she was uncomfortable and disapproving namely because she did make shady comments during the filming. I distinctly remember her acting surprised when Carole told her that she liked him and she tried to downplay the relationship to 'banging buddies' and talking about the age difference. She was throwing subtle jabs to detract Carole from pursuing things further. By the time the season ended, Luann went balls to the wall throwing out any and every example of Carole's inappropriateness in the situation to explain why she was uncomfortable with it but also, she became more desperate to detract the relationship the more she realized that it was seemingly getting serious. I don't think Luann was ever angry per se, but that Carole's actions clearly breached her expectations of what their friendship was. I do think Luann was genuine about her concern for her niece, but I also think Luann felt slighted as well for being involuntarily involved in the conception of their relationship...so I think there's an element of pride there as well. Luann is not a confrontational person. Asking why she didn't broach the subject on a number of occasions isn't in line with her personality. Luann can throw shade and act blase well, but she can't hold down a verbal back and forth. She's far too flustered for those kind of scenarios. The most damning comments by Luann were made after the season ended as pointed out, but is it all possible that Luann's niece may have had her own opinions about the relationship that fueled Luann's anger? I know Luann's niece hasn't addressed the matter, but has Adam addressed the timeline of his dating history with Nicole? I can only recall Carole insisting that they were broken up for a year but it would seem like such an easy thing for Adam to at least corroborate Carole's story given that he also makes appearances on the show but I can't recall him doing that which I find strange.

Because Ramona will turn around and find a way to make herself look like the one that was wronged so when she so quickly moves past the issue, she thinks she's such a sweet person that just has a big mouth but really, she is a woman who completely lacks any self-awareness of her negative attributes and how harmful they are to the people she supposedly care about. Case in point - she addressed the Tom issue with Luann and harped on Luann not talking to her first before dating Tom but then she was the only one that didn't alienate Luann after Bethenny went ballistic. To Ramona, she doesn't see how unnecessary it was for her to expect Luann to ask her permission to pursue a relationship with Tom. She will see herself as being the bigger person because she let go of Luann's indiscretion against her and not only spent time with her but she was coaching Luann so that Luann could make peace with the others. Even if Bethenny knew, I don't think she would care. Telling Sonja that she leaked information to the presses for free publicity was just one of her many daggers that she wanted to throw at Sonja. I'm sure it will only a small part of her anger toward Sonja even though at the time she used that rationale as the premise for her anger. I don't mind Bethenny taking issue with Sonja's involvement in the brand given how closely Sonja had been invited into Bethenny's SkinnyGirl world but so long as Bethenny has something to be angry about, I don't see her apologizing for any fraction of her comments, even if untrue.

Luann isn't upset about the age difference between Carole and Adam. It's clear that she's upset with the close connection that she has to Adam due to her niece and felt that Carole overstepped by coming to her home and essentially leaving with the guy that she trusted to simply be at her home to cook for her guests. It's very obvious that Luann was throwing anything and everything out there to make Carole feel bad about hooking up with Adam so that she would stop rather than simply say that she didn't think it was cool for Carole to come to her home and engage with Adam knowing that he was someone special in her niece's life. It's also unfair to compare someone's behaviour and opinions from years ago to present. People are allowed to grow and opinions are allowed to change based on the experiences they are exposed to. It's very clear that Luann appears to be far less uptight than when she was married to some well-to-do man who had a reputation that she had to protect. That's not to say that Luann hasn't or doesn't say or do hypocritical things, but you're examples are a little off the mark or a bit unfair given that 8 years is a long to expect someone to hold steadfast to the exact same opinions and beliefs.

The circumstances are completely different so that doesn't fall into the category of hypocrisy. Now Luann said that she doesn't date people in their 20s because she had children in that age range and it's too weird for him (then she made a horrible dig at Carole not having children so she wouldn't understand that decision). Now Bethenny claimed that Luann complained about Adam's age when Luann has slept with a 25 year old. If this is true (which Bethenny hasn't really said anything other than throw out that the accusation to which Luann has denied), then that would fall into the category of hypocrisy. Context is often forgotten when it's convenient. Bethenny wants to ignore context because it would mean that Bethenny has one less insult to hurl all Luann but I bet if Luann flung it in her face that Bethenny is dating and likely has slept with at least one man in the past 4 years despite still being MARRIED, Bethenny would be outraged at that implication and talk about the circumstances of her situation and suggest that Luann is stupid for comparing the two.

I haven't seen the episode yet but this is the same Bianca that just called Dorothy a 'monster'. She's clearly spilling the tea about Morgan because she wants to hurt Dorothy and cause friction between Dorothy and Morgan.

Ramona constantly tells her friends that she loves them and she thinks too much of their friendship - and in the next breath she insults them, judges them, makes them feel uncomfortable. Ramona thinks that an apology forgives her disloyalty, rudeness and judgmental behaviour and to this point, she's been right. People are always willing to move past her behaviour, every single time.

I would say that being a woman holds different meanings to different people. Whether you were assigned to the gender at birth or later in life, you have a challenge of being a minority that is discriminated it against and constantly undersold. Not suggesting that the struggle is equally the same, but they most certainly exist. Cait waited very long in life before identifying as a woman and at the point that she did, she had earned a level of celebrity that automatically exempted her from certain challenges that she would have otherwise likely experience during her journey. My point was that Cait seems to centre her identity around the more superficial aspects and perhaps that's just on par with her personality but I guess I was hoping there was something more insightful or deep about her connection with being a woman.

I think it's more than just not losing control, she doesn't bend to the reactions that the others want or expect from her and that can be infuriating for personalities that are both controlling and gentle. Bethenny is the controlling type that confronts you so that she can have her 'gotcha' moment, seemingly caring more about the admission than the apology. She doesn't ever give you the opportunity to interject or defend...she wants to yell at you, make you feel bad about yourself and then she leaves. Case in point, during her argument with Luann, her face was literally twitching when Luann became dismissive with her and laughed about the copycat hair, etc. Bethenny controlled the entire conversation/yelling and the moment she took a breath, Luann tried to talk and Bethenny accused her of not letting her speak, lol. She doesn't care what you have to say. She's made up her mind, she just wants you to know it in the harshest way possible. She calls it truth and not caring for bullshit but it's really just an excuse for her to be an asshole and hide behind the guise of honesty. 'Honesty' is only ever delivered in such a form with the intent to hurt, not to correct. Dorinda seems to be the opposite of Bethenny, being more gentle. Her outbursts are purely emotional that stem from feeling hurt - she doesn't seek the admission of fault, she seeks the apology because for her it affirms that the other person cares and acknowledges her feelings. Very few bother to treat Bethenny the way she treats them. The last time was Ramona when she basically called her unlovable or told her that she's the problem that prevent her from having any healthy relationship....and it left Bethenny in tears. She needs to be on the receiving end of her brand of honesty more often..maybe then she won't be so quick to pull the trigger and shoot her opponent dead with her 'honesty'.

My bad. I watch the Melbourne franchise and I remember in the first or second season, one of the women called the other 'new money' and she got offended and I thought (and still do) that she didn't know what new money referred to so that had popped into my head and made me think you were honestly asking, lol. Or maybe I'm out to lunch...and there's another way to interpret that that's offensive and I just don't know about it.

It refers to inherited wealth - for example, Paris Hilton comes from old money. If you come from old money it could still mean that you don't have that much if you're living beyond your means. I find that the term is equally used to refer to status and not solely wealth. If they do in fact come from old money, I'm guessing that they're sinking most of that inherited wealth into their long term Hampton's home while the apartment is everyday living that they don't invest as much in.

You did say otherwise actually. You said that if someone truly is not embarrassed by what they do or their lifestyle then they shouldn't be offended/they should embrace the term. You are making an implication about the person who chooses to take offense to what was intended to be offensive and frankly it projects as an archaic rationale. You are appropriating this notion that when the dominant male, dominant white culture, etc.labels you, if you are truly not what they claim you to be, then take their insults and empower them. LOL. You are appropriating the notion that a proud minority should reinvent everything into a positive instead of expecting that the dominant faction stop acting like entitled asshats. How Luann responds or feels is her choice (to some degree) but because she takes offense to an insult that was meant to be offensive, doesn't mean that she is ashamed. Well for one, it could just as easily mean that she is not guilty of the slandering accusation that is being hurled at her. By many standards, it is immoral to have sex before marriage and sexual relations should be only between a man and a woman. Now, if you are (or hypothetically speaking) a mother, and your 25 year old daughter is unmarried, been in three long term relationships where she has had sex with 3 men, and someone used the above standard to label her a slut, would you say 'sweetie, you have nothing to be embarrassed about. Own it and tell them, so what if I'm a slut?'

LOL well that's one way to defend the use of such a nasty and ill used word. So a little history lesson - slut and whore creates an implication of loose morals - who gets to define 'loose morals' or what 'promiscuity' is? They are in fact subjective terms where the accuser is using their own beliefs as the standard to which gives them allowance to shame someone else. Polygamy is not considered moral by many people's standards yet there are cultures and religions that allow it. Would you turn to someone within that culture and faith and call her a slut or a whore because she has relations with more than one man? And if she were offended, would you say 'well if you aren't a slut and you're happy with your life why don't you just be empowered by the word and own it? No, how about you just not say it. Because the onus is not on the shamee to reinvent the dictionary or history. When you use the word with the intent to hurt, insult and shame someone, reinvention or not, you're still an asshole. The onus is not on Luann to own the word because she's confident in herself and happy with her lifestyle. While it's fine if someone choose to empower the word (which is a facade anyway because of the subjectivity of the term), it is just as okay for someone to choose not to embrace such terminology being used against them.

Well maybe Bethenny should look up the word hypocrite. Hypocrisy is such a harsh accusation because it isn't meant for simpleton matters. If I tell someone to never drink and drive and then I drink and drive, that's not me being a hypocrite, that's me being stupid. When I confide behind closed doors that I'm having relationship problems and then to the world I act like I'm in a happy relationship, that's not being a hypocrite, that's me protecting myself from being vulnerable to people who I don't know or trust enough to share such information with. It's also me trying to fake with hopes of making it. Hypocrisy is specific to the moral beliefs that one encompasses and preaches to others. It is hypocritical to preach a moral standing on a matter yet display behaviour that is contrary to the moral/ethical beliefs that you are preaching to others. Example - Bethenny going on about sleeping with a married man while she has and continues to date and possibly sleep with men despite still being married - if there's a grey area that applies to your situation, don't assume that there isn't a grey area that applies to someone else's). Carole makes implications about Luann's morality due to the things that she has said about Carole but turns around and says equally nasty things about Luann that are also against her character. I dislike when these shows start using the term hypocrite, because often times the accuser is at least equally (or sometimes greater) guilty of hypocrisy as well.

These women were introduced to a Countess that was dressed well, spoke well and had connections to the upper status crowd of Manhattan and internationally. Take away Luann's title and connections and I feel pretty positive that a lot of the small things they take issue with as Luann trying to make them look inferior would not be interpreted as often in such a case. Luann has definitely said things that would be fair for someone to interpret as acting haughty, but they have taken that image of her and apply it to basically anything that they can think of. It's like the moment Luann speaks, their brain quickly goes through all the trigger points to see if there's anything there that they can call her out on or complain about it. Sure, it also doesn't help that Luann is not good with her words and often seems very slow on the draw when it comes to verbal confrontations. She consistently makes it a point to avoid verbal confrontations - perhaps she knows that about herself and chooses to be dismissive because she knows that to do otherwise would not be a service to herself or how she comes across. On the flip side, I would like someone to point out to Bethenny that while she points her finger accusing Luann of acting better than other people, she has been accused of acting like a know it all by people. What do you think that implies Bethenny? That is one way of someone saying that you behave in a manner in which you think you are better/smarter than others - you are playing with the same superior/inferior dynamic except in those cases Bethenny, you are the Luann.

Exactly. I believe Bethenny and Ramona were around for the gossip mill that suggested that Luann and her Count ex had an open marriage, right? So they at least know that such a thing exists. Was it an open marriage? Was he legally separated? Was there an agreed separation? Was he two weeks away from finalizing his divorce? They have zero knowledge of the circumstances but hey, let's all assassinate her character. They want to hold it against Luann for behaving in a manner that suggests that she is of higher status. Well went they jump to attacks of that nature (with relatively little to support such huge claims), they are also exhibiting behaviour that suggests superiority of the moral kind. Two sides of the same damn coin.

The thing is Luann's comment was simply giving back the attitude that Bethenny was projecting. I wholeheartedly agree that having a disagreement or not liking someone who happens to be in a relationship while you are single does not mean that you are jealous. However, when you are attacking someone using a linear thought, then it's far easier to consider that projection. Bethenny spent most of her attack on the topic of Luann's sex life. Why? It had nothing to do with her yet the topic which did (Skinny Girl) she only made fleeting references to because she was too caught up in calling Luann a whore, slut, etc. And she said it numerous times. In kind, Luann basically called out Bethenny's projection and to infer that if you're so upset that I'm getting laid, it's probably because you're upset that you aren't' - her reaction was specific to Bethenny's attack. If Bethenny was being rude in general and Luann made that comment, I would agree that it's on the same plane as shaming someone. These women in general are such a handful but it makes for great TV, lol.

Actually, in the US, the term Indian is still commonly used and continues to exist in government policies and current written publications, along with Native American. I'm not American, but have heard many Americans use the term Indian so I was under the impression that it's not nearly as taboo as Carole made it seem. As a Canadian, we don't use the same terminology. For example, Canadians wouldn't use the term Indian because that was the terminology used in the Indian Act which defined who was considered an Indian and what rights they were given based on how they identified. It's a term that is too closely tied to politics and government. Many of them self-identify as Indian but it's usually only done so within their own communities because it's understood that it doesn't carry that political undertone so it's considered a more affectionate term in those circumstances). In Canada, we wouldn't call them Native. We use the term Aboriginal as the most inclusive term to address all communities(as it would be difficult for others to be able to distinguish the actual communities each group comes from - which is the most appropriate way to refer to them). As a Canadian, we've learned about their history and part of that is terminology. I'm Canadian and I know how common it is in the US, one by experience, but the other is that in Canada, we only refer to someone as Indian if they are a First Nations person registered under the Indian Act. The term carries a legal weight to it as it is associated to their recognized rights. I'm not sure what the US would consider the proper term when they continue to use the term Indian so frequently, but in Canada, the proper terminology refers to

I could be remembering it incorrectly but what I meant by outed wasn't that they did investigation work and then started gossiping. I meant that they brought off camera stuff on camera and spoke of it at length. At the end of the day, it's going to be on Luann because it was her actions. She can feel however she wants about the intentions of Heather and Carole when talking about the guy being there and what they may or may not have done the night before but they can't talk if she didn't give them something to talk about it and it's on her if she felt that that they threw her under the bus with that one. No denials from me about Lu orchestrating a lie to cover up what happened. I actually laughed when I saw the scene because it was such a dumb move. You would think that someone who had been filming the show for that long would know not to try to arrange discreet cover ups when you have a mic on your person and the cameras haven't yet left the premises, lol.

It's definitely possible, but don't conveniently forget that it was the girls that outed her cheating on Jacques in St. Barts. When they came storming into her room, it's also very possible that, as Luann said, she believed that her 'friends' were trying to catch her with a man since the last time, expecting to have some juicy gossip to discuss much like the last trip they went on. The one thing that I think lends to Luann's story is that if her anger came from nearly being caught with the guy, then why did she so easily take the heat for Ramona allowing the other guy to stay? Ramona admitted to that and admitted to blaming Luann. Luann made a feeble attempt at pointing out it was Ramona and when they persisted in their anger, she turned the conversation to 'it's not a big deal, stop being uncool'. It honestly could go either way. It's not like Luann has never lied before to save her own skin. And it's not like the others haven't fudged reality in order to justify their own behaviour and anger.

She was with Jacques when she went to St. Barts and cheated on him with the Johnny Depp dude and then she stupidly called a friend and was speaking in French...as if Bravo wouldn't find someone to translate her conversation, lol. The married man was from Turks and Caicos and she was single during that trip. St. Barts happened in 2012. She and Jacques broke up in 2013 and the Turks trip was last year. Yup, they all pretty much bring different shades of drama and crazy.