HalcyonDays

This friggin show...what on earth is going on in behind the scenes with this show? Is this Goffman's last slap in the face to Beharie and the "thuggish fans?" I'm back and forth almost hourly on whether the show is getting renewed, and it's times like this that make me think no. Massive shade from Orlando, ramped up from Mison and now Beharie, who is normally silent. What does that tell you? Season 1 commentary had Mison, Beharie, Wiseman and Iscove (I believe) just chatting over the last season one episode - so basically chatting randomly about stuff for an hour. It is fun to listen to it and they are very funny. It's where we got this exchange. Beharie: "I was glad that you were reunited with your wife." Mison: "I wasn't!! All she could do was twirl a stick." Everyone: *laughter* For what it's worth, no one mentioned Katia Winter at all. Katrina was mentioned, but not Winter. Orlando and Lyndie were mentioned and praised but no one commented on Winter. I felt bad for her at the time because it seemed so glaring. Now I'm just pissed off for other reasons. I don't know. Maybe this time they will have Orlando, Greenwood and Winter doing it, to spread the "wealth."

Well, lets hope that Goffman isn't around to focus season 3 on "Waaaaa Katrina's dead." Hell, even Mison is like "Nope, not interested." So maybe in season 3, Mison can be a little more "forceful" and "opinionated", which apparently he can be - in a good way - and get the new showrunner to not really focus on it. I've heard great ideas of having a time jump, of which he would grieve and get over it - off screen. Seeing as how 18th century Crane relatively accepted that the "seeds were there" for Katrina, they can continue with that thought and have him move on. If Katia Winter can has multiple meetings with Goffman and co and influence the direction of her character, then Mison better well be able to do this too. For his sanity, my sanity and all of our sanity.

But that's what I want to know - at this point, is that considered a comic spoiler. If not, we can simply use that as the shortform.

^^^^ YES, THANK YOU sinkwriter!! Now I remember the September 11th date, because I thought it was weird at the time, that the prop guy choose that particular date of all things. I mean, out of any date, they could have chosen Mison's birthday or even something like July 4th or some random date or whatever. I did remember that the passport and 08/18 were not the same, which is why I was trying to find a screen shot. And now that my memory has been jogged, I believe the year as one off from Mison's - they made Crane 31, but Mison is 32, so 1983. That I semi-remember. So archiemom's - Yeah, not surprised about Abbie's ID card being totally off. I think the prop people picked something meaningful to them, for both Crane's DOB on his passport, his "actual" birthday (08/18) and Abbie's DOB and expiry date. Who knows what will change in season 3. I guess they are kinda committed to 08/18 now, at least. The rest - who knows! Thank you again SW and also for the screen shot!! It was driving me up the wall, only because I like little shout outs and continuity and hints (like the numbers 1014 popping up everywhere in X-Files), but know that SH is so notorious for not caring.

For those in the know regarding the comics --> Is it too early for (comic spoiler)

*sigh* Since I prefer to give beatdowns ala Glenn, as opposed to receiving them - edited because no one wants to be *those guys* /wink On another topic - someone up somewhere mentioned ----> Where's Morgan?? We saw but a glimpse of him way back in a preview. I still wonder if that's how Deanna knows about Rick and co. Morgan is there - somewhere - and will pop up in an episode. Is it possible that Enid was part of Morgan's group, and both of them ended up at Alexandria?

* kicks thread* Let's all move on from the supposed racial and female TV tropes over-analysis SVP, and continue the nice discussion about the episode and episode events themselves. I can see this heading starting to head into a direction that will become non-conducive to good respectful discussion. It's not there yet, but I see it coming...PlsKThx and Much obliged.

Ooo...I love you....It's around the end of the episode (at least 3/4 in) where Crane and Abbie are in the bar, and Hawley comes in and sits down. He throws a yellow envelope to Crane. They talk, snark, etc. Hawley leaves. Crane opens the envelope, pulls out the passport and displays it open to Abbie and us. You can clearly see his picture, name and what's written. I know it states he's a British Citizen but the birthdate I don't remember. The year though, I remember they used Mison's own birth year (1982 or maybe 81?), but I completely forget the date. That would be great if you could get a shot of the birthdate itself or just let us know what the birthdate is! THANK YOU sinkwriter! I know that it may not match, only cause Hawley could have simply made it up, but the spelling of the name and birth date should have been something Hawley maybe asked Abbie. (you know, Ichabod itself, and then Crane vs Craine vs Crain vs Krane, etc.)

She is supposed to be in her twenties. I think it was just supposed to be a little in-joke by the props guy or someone - like a spouses or their own significant date. If you look carefully, you'll also see that the ID expired 01/01/2015. Noting Crane's birthday, now I wish I didn't delete the episode Root of All Evil. There is a shot of Ichabod's passpost photo and information, including his birthdate. I'm just wondering if it happens to be the same month/year as 08/18 or something completely else. Can't find a screen shot anywhere either to confirm.

It's an easy way to get rid of all of that caked on dirt and grime?? Honestly, I wonder if Andrew Lincoln is filming a movie or something, because he really was the only one who shaved, cut his hair and shaved his chest. Must be for something else he's doing. Everyone else looked the same, just cleaner. Kinda. Exactly it, that's why Rick and co are being so suspect. Good for them. I would be too. You cannot trust anyone in this zombie world because they always have ulterior motives. I did think it a show of faith that they let Daryl keep his crossbow and Michonne her katana. That katana can so some serious damage to the living too. Hopefully she can sharpen it somewhere. I am not even sure what that means, that she acts "pregnant.", but a lot of you have said that. I just think Michonne is just tired of running, tired of the constant threats and wants to go somewhree and take a break from it all. They all are, but Michonne is close to Rick, so we see Michonne telling Rick the group needs to stop the incessant running and fighting, etc. I totally get that. Many of the men think that same way too - want to go somewhere and just stop the running and righting and constant fear of being killed, having no food, shelter, etc. I don't think it has nothing to do with a pregnancy, and I really really hope I turn out to be RIGHT. Last thing I want is Michonne hauling a large belly around. No thanks. Politicians are also great at taking lies and spinning them to sound like the absolute truth. They are also really good at making sure that they themselves get what they want, along with their own preferred group of constituents, with little regards for everyone else. Just saying.

So much to say.... Carol - "I miss that stupid and wonderful man Ed everyday." *sideeye? The hell? Honestly, I think Carol was playing Deanna, which was confirmed to me at the end of the episode, with her saying that if they got too comfortable, they would get weak, and that was not good. It's like she's playing a role to appease Deanna and the others. Rick....*nice shower scene, Mr. Lincoln....mmmmm...ahem* He shaved and cut his hair!!! You know what - I like his hair longer, and prefer trimmed beard Rick. But still - big statement for him. However, loved at the very end, he walks down the steps in his cop uniform, yet with his previous words on replay "People only want to take from you, use you...." Perfect. Also his "we'll take over the place. Damn, Rick!" Glenn - god I love you and yes, those others are the idiots. Nicely done. That little leader-son of the scouting group - yeah, shades of Terminus and Woodbury. Immediately, always be wary of those assholes. Carl being awesome and saying "I don't want us to get weak." Good man. Daryl refusing to integrate - interesting. I thought his disgust at Cop!Rick was because of his previous pre-Walker life and frequent encounters with the law. He respects and admires Rick, thinks of his as a brother, but cops are not ones he likes. I liked that. Who took Rick's gun?? Hmm..... Michonne as Cop - hell yeah! But I fear she is too trusting now too....I sense bad things. Because --> Trust No One.

I'm glad she didn't make an appearance. MGH is a good actress, but her character in this show grated on my nerves. The show didn't need her "They are all MURDERERS! Arrest THEM!" fingerpointing all episode long.

Teaching Abbie to sword fight. Cooking Abbie, Jenny and Irving a nice gourmet dinner. Skinny dipping (I know, mind in gutter) On my screen for season 3.

Yup - that too. When TWoP announced it was closing, many of those people were looking for another forum (including myself) to discuss and debate things, and PTV is the best of the bunch, IMHO. And traffic has skyrocketed insanely since March of last year (when TWoP shut down).

Television Without Pity. It was a popular website devoted to tv recaps and forum discussion about TV shows and movies, until it shut down last year. PTV is kinda it's progeny.

But Emily Kinney and Chad Coleman appeared on the Talking Dead after the episodes in which they were killed, right? I forget.

I've expanded the title of this thread so it makes a bit more sense as to what the thread is about - however that doesn't mean that the thread title can't change. If someone thinks of something better - by all means. I like this thread concept though: How would YOU see or think the zombie apocalypse would unfold in real life?? How do you think the show should have been presented? However, you also asked another question - what you would LOVE to see on the show, which makes me think this thread could be a TWD Wish list.....

Here is your thread to discuss all things about Episode 12 - Remember - up until the episode finally airs on Sunday. Once 10:00 pm hits, this thread will lock, and you guys can mosey over to the Actual Episode Thread and continue there. Happy Discussion!

Remember that this thread is devoted only to discussing Episode 12: Remember. If you want to discuss the episode before airing, please go to the Pre-Chat and Speculation thread for this episode. And remember - Please be respectful with your comments and opinions and NO COMIC SPOILERS. Minor spoilers should be spoiler tagged. Any talk about the Comics, please go HERE.

This is what breaks my heart (besides my show possibly not being renewed). The fact that this season was a bust, and so much *bad* happened to the point of questionable renewal. What breaks my heart is that those Katrina-stans have a chance of winning. I realize for FOX it's a business decision. I get that. But the thought that *those* people could win....*sigh*....truly it breaks my heart. There is a lot of misery and injustice in the world. I know it's just a TV show, but renewal would be a nice little "fuck you" to those whose opinions are toxic and just plain disgusting.

Thinking about the episodes again, I just realized that the show missed one way to try to get Rebecca to stay silent. Offer her money. They never once even hinted that Annalise could simply pay off Rebecca and buy her silence. Rebecca needs the money and Annalise is rich, so that could easily be done and Rebecca would stay silent in this case. Also, Nate is SO SCREWED. He's accused of killing Sam. He gets parolled and while he is free, Rebecca gets killed. You know the police are going to be wondering why Rebecca all of a sudden disappeared. I mean, in Nate's court case, she could be called as a Witness. Also, are they going to screw up a second time when disposing the body? I'm second guessing Annalise knowing that Frank killed Sam. If Frank was a "fixer", then why would Annalise ask her own students to dispose of the body? Just call Frank and he'll take care of it. He would not do a sloppy job of it either, so it makes me wonder if Annalise really knew. However, with this show, and how Annalise seems the devil at times, I swear this is like one big experiment that Annalise is running, using the Keating 5, to create curricula and an interesting case for her class. Nothing would surprise me anymore with this show and all of its twists and turns and crazy motivations.

Yeah, the pilot. Then after that? Also, there have been multiple directors for SH this season and last, so he can direct an episode here or there. Direction is really not the problem. it's those three people and their "vision".

I disagree. RENEW but get rid of Goffman, Metzner and Kim. Get Len Wisemen to direct more. Then all will be well.

I still think the best scenario was this, and was set up in season 1: Ichabod is destined to be a Witness. Washington and others know of this plan Katrina's Coven knows this Ichabod must be set on his path Katrina does what she can to push, direct, inch Ichabod towards his path in life The best way to do it - is to be as close as possible to this person. How to be as close as possible - make them fall in love with you, worship you, listen to your every word. Marry them, to keep that close contact and control. All they had to do was have Katrina cast a love spell on Crane, to ensure that he stayed with her, so she could keep tabs on him, direct him to where his true path would be. It would give more weight to her shadiness, and also explain Ichabod's idiocy and character change in season 2. So simple, yet so squandered.

You know, I really, really want Sleepy Hollow renewed. Not just because I love my show and the four core characters.... But because I want those idiot racists to NOT WIN. They are out there with their #CancelSleepyHollow hashtag, all butt hurt because the mathematical fraction between "white" / "black" characters means more decimals than whole numbers. Don't let them win. #RenewSleepyHollow is the hashtag that needs to have some love. Because I don't want these people to win. They simply cannot win. There had to be some justice in life. *lesigh*