Aeryn13

He would be a flashback most likely? Or a time traveller again?

From day one it was clear that John would hunt with Mary here. And that would be the show. So I don't see how the Pilot episode comes out - and this is what happens - it's a big betrayal of "but they said". They never said the show wouldn’t follow the premise of the show.

But again, if they had cleared it up right away, that means they wouldn`t have had a mystery there at all. Now obviously that is a gamble but storytelling-wise, it would have been just as much of a gamble to have Dean give clumsy exposition like "and this happened in a parallel dimension" or "let me tell you how all this happened before an angel wiped everyone`s minds". Either you explain everything completely right from the start or not, there is really no in-between if they thought people will freak out immediately because of the changes to the known story. I think the strategy they picked is the better one. No idea if it will prove to be too risky but I would have though the other way was terrible writing.

What should they have done, answer the mystery of why things appear different right now in the first minute of the Pilot? They set it up via dialogue in the episode that there IS a mystery and they are saying out of show that the answer to it will be in episode 13. There is not that much more they can do right now IMO. Now if I thought they were JJ Abrahams-ing it ("I swear Khan is not in the movie" - movie comes out, Khan is in it) and despite them saying the answer comes in ep 13, nothing will happen, then yes, I would be worried. But nothing about them as people gives me that vibe. If people take issue with canon seemingly being "changed" at this point, fine, but that has been clear from the start. They never said they would not have a mystery about it in the first place. Quite the opposite. That John was involved in the hunting here has been in the premise, in the trailer, everything. So when Jensen and Robbie T. said "we`re not changing canon", did people seriously think those would not be in the show regardless?

And really, Dean going back in time and setting things in motion, thereby confirming it was a closed time-loop where he had to go back to make the "story" happen was already done in "In the Beginning". Like, literally, it was that story. Would they really re-do it? Now everything could certainly be as easy as Dean in Heaven simply narrates the story but then, seriously why would he "still not have all the puzzle pieces yet" himself? I reckon if there is one place those would be super-easy to get would be after his death. Timeline-wise, there are some periods that could account for Dean being alone and Sam being elsewhere, like Sam in College (I know Dean looks older than Pilot!Dean now but with such short tidbits they could get away with it), Sam in the Cage, a couple of splits during the show. I would kinda count out pre-SPN-Dean because then you would have to mindwipe him also because he certainly didn`t know all this when the show started. Kinda same with the year he spent with Lisa, on top of other things. Not un-doable of course. If he is doing this from Heaven, why? It`s not just him doing a hunt there because that might be heaven for him, he is solving a puzzle? And if they tie it into the present where the Akreeda are once again a threat, is he involved in solving it from Heaven in the present?

I think the explanation was at the end already. The current threat is not just to humanity but also to monsters and demons so naturally they are all looking for ways to curb it and that`s why demons have been active enough that hunters like the Campbell took notice. Once this threat is dealt with, I reckon demons go more or less into a dormant period until Yellow Eyes puts his plan in motion. Demons (and angels) seem to be very time-tabled oriented beings, heh. They are occasionally around so people dealing with supernatural entities have picked up things on them but they only come out in numbers for "events". Now for the most part, I did think the Pilot handled the powers of demons well - obviously the one here was small-fry power-wise - except for that one scene when Mary seemed to be the stronger fighter in a flat-out punching contest. That could have been an easy fix with some weaponry. Oh well, when SPN was still charming and goofy early on, I allowed for a lot of gaffes like this. So it`s kinda in the spirit of the original.

Giving him a little mission - and an important one at that - after that stupid death in the mothership would be very neat, I would love it. I`m not at all bothered by any "canon"-tweaking they are doing. Even if the mothership hadn`t dragged canon behind a shed, violated it repeatedly and then killed it, even IN the show John and Mary are always like one Angel-mindwipe away from conforming back to the timeline. And since this all takes place before that, they can seriously do whatever they want.

I admit I wasn`t feeling the trailer but watching the whole episode, I really did enjoy it a lot. I`ve been incredilby soured on the original show in terms of story and character but it was fun to kind of get a bit of the vibe back, but with its own spin. Liking that it is a period piece because frankly the CW shows have been somewhat stuck in recent years, their storytelling approach was still like in the 2010s but at the same time they tried to be super-relatable to exactly what the current year was. It dated them big time and turned into a goofy mess. Having a period show IMO helps it a lot because they can just let it go with the 70s vibe more and noone has to say twitter hashtags out loud. Yay. The Indiana Jones beginning made me giggle. Young John with the floppy hairdo did look a lot like early Sam. While Mary clearly is supposed to be more coded as Dean. While at the same time she does want out and he kinda does want in for the moment. It`s not a 1:1 copy - as it shouldn`t be - because here we have a newbie to hunting, though a trained fighter in other ways and a consummated child-trained hunter. Not to mention romantic sparks are already flighing. That gives the characters some familiarity but also their own dynamic. I like it. Couple neat Easter Eggs. I wished Mary would have had something like brass knuckles, dipped in iron or holy water in that one fight against the demon. All the other action bits were very good and believable within the world set-up. Seeing Dean was very bittersweet. I know him being in heaven is the prevalent theory but that`s a place where he could easily ask his parents or maybe even know it all already and I hope the framing device is more than what that would imply. The story being set up is pretty intriguing. So an invading entity that is a threat to even demons and monsters? So technically, the interests of hunters, demon and monsters are aligned? So far the supporting characters Carlos and Latika haven`t had much to do but I did like them. Also, a little quartet isn`t a bad core group, not too small and not too full for the moment. Thumbs up from me.

That would be great. There is a similar meme for the X-Men Universe where Charles (McAvoy) and Magneto (Fassbender) literally don`t age through 30 years and then it catches up to them in one or two years. Haha, the magic of prequel casting.

Also, since they re-cast John and Mary even younger than their younger versions in Season 5?, Pileggi wouldn`t fit because he is associated with tho other cast now and if you re-cast, then IMO, you do it all the way. So going younger with Tom Welling fits. Which btw, this is so incredibly meta (in a good way, not an later-SPN-way), going back to the WB roots, it kinda blows my mind, haha. Great casting announcement. And it looks like the Winchesters isn`t part of the CW "topical storyline" theme for the Season. Thank God. Mental health is an important topic but this recent thing where a network decides to go "topical" and all their shows have to have mandated storylines about something, if it`s creatively a good fit in any way or not, su-ucks. I don`t think any show/network so far has not botched this.

I know, maybe they will try it out for 2 or 3 years, look at the numbers and then decide if they wanna keep scripted. The Hollywood Reporter article mentioned what happened to the last network channel they bought: scrapped scripted programming right away. They kinda can't do this here since at least the fall Season of 22 has show commitments IMO.

While that is true, I don`t know if ultimately they won`t go fully unscripted, i,e, only cheap reality shows and news. If so, it wouldn`t make sense to keep just one or two scripted shows on the network.

I know the CW doesn't have the best reputation (to put it mildly) and I admit their shows writing-wise have been stuck in the past too much and lost quality but I gotta hand it to the network and especially Pedowitz, his Netflix deal was genius. The network was never profitable but (some) shows were, very much so, for the respective studios so they kept the venture going. And thus it was the only safe haven for a lot of small genre shows for a long time. So I think he was a success story.

I think it is generally more fun if you like all or at least most of the characters in a show and their interaction in a show. So I hope the Winchesters works well in that regard.

I just love that they're keeping the tradition to call the pilot episode "Pilot". That's such a SPN thing for me, haha.

I don`t think new Walker appeals to old Walker fans because it doesn`t have the martial arts aspect at all. I mean, noone watched to see Chuck Norris act. Current Walker seems to work on the soapish family drama aspect. Which is probably in line with Nexstar. Don`t know yet if the Winchesters can have a SPN-like appeal. The trailer looks more young-ish focused and of course the characters are young but the same was more or less true of SPN when it started. It could still have a "mid-Western" appeal in the same way. It being set in the 60s? already gives it a bit of nostalgic flair.

While it's true that the CW is in a major upheaval and Warner is still also so it's doubtful any scripted shows will survive and Walker does apparently have the oldest demo of any CW show and looks more in line with Nexstsr brand, no outlet wants an old demo. None. All would be happy to trade in for younger viewers if only they could. The CW also has a much older demo in general thsn the teens everyone is thinking about. Because while I'm more out of touch on what is in with teens today, even I know the CW shows storytelling is perma-stuck in the last decade. How will the Winchesters fare? I don’t know. I've been surprised her and there in the past with what shows connect and what don’t.

I don’t think Jensen-fans hate Walker. Not watching and never posting about it really isn’t hate. There are tons of shows I never watch or post about. What is GK? As for the merchandise, this is obviously something the studio decided. I wish they didn't frame it like this to potentially harm the show but studios have done crazy copyright stuff before. For all we know that is going to be a new hardliner course done under Zaslav and will effect lots of projects. The guy has been stomping things left and right since he took over as CEO, including pretty much half of the CW.

Must be heaven, in 15 years of the show, no matter what happened, I can never remember his hair being so tousled. Haha.

I don`t think it`s much of a reward. It looked mind-numbingly boring and empty. That`s not exactly peace in my eyes. Or rather happiness. Not for him. And if he just waits around for Sam, that`s even worse. If he does at least something else instead that he takes an interest in, anything beyond waiting like a pet for its owner to get home, I`ll take that.

Badd was too petty and too hateful. A spin-off might have gone forward if they both had kids, very likely one a son and one a daughter. Or even more kids. But since they wanted to make sure Dean had no legacy in the end, that didn’t fly. I mean you could retcon it into Dean having a kid but that would look wonky. Also even then it is a big if. I remember when the show Grimm ended, it had a final scene about the grown up kids now fighting monsters and I thought for sure this would be a neat set-up for a sequel but that never materialized. As for the Winchesters, I try not to overthink it at the moment in terms of the framing device. I'm sure Jensen and everyone wants the meat to be on Mary and John and not have it overshadowed by whatever Dean solves/wants to find out. I'm curious myself - and if it retcons the hell out of the horrible ending, go for it - but I think the focus should be on John, Mary and the new characters.

I don’t think Jensen would be too keen on a show where John is a bumbling idiot and loser. He likes the character too much. John will be the noob at hunting but I don't think he will be the total butt of the joke. Now I know he isn't the showrunner or really creatively imvolved but I do believe enough of an oversight to have a "don't ruin the characters" mandate.

A writer from Fringe is very encouraging. That show very nearly managed a perfect run for me.

He had a back injury and couldn't shoot much apparently.

I know what you mean. Back when it was announced, I thought "prequel-parents? really?" - and I think Badd`s year left a super-bad taste for the Mary-character in my mouth, yikes - but hearing the premise, I found it intriguing. And actually wondering how they work it all in. I am confident that Jensen and Robbie can manage a lot better than "lol!canon". Now I was kinda mixed on the initial trailer but trailers can be quite misleading. The Carlos character seemed like a hoot and a half, though. The Winchesters is highly likey to be the only new US show I`m trying out this fall Season.