Beachdreamer

I can't blame Erika for not wanting to be there overnight. Honestly, once these women get a few drinks in them, the potential for fighting and obnoxious behavior is huge. And, it is all likely to be caught on tape and played over and over. That's the game they play. Erika, whether because she is smart, reserved, accustomed to not embarrassing Tom, or some combination of all 3, seems to stay sober for the camera. And that's the real problem with staying that night, I think that a combination of looking around at the women getting drunker and the potential for issues, and the fact that she can be uncomfortable in a girl crowd, are really what prompted her to leave. Possibly even one of the progressively drunk women made a comment that made Erika feel upset- she is very easily hurt. In fact, she seemed to have a chip on her shoulder the next morning right from the start, so I am leaning toward her feeling left out in some way the night before. I don't think it was so she could be with her glam squad. She looked lovely the next morning, so I have to assume that they weren't there.

You aren't kidding! Bravo, are you listening? RHoWellington. Get going on that!

The wine in a champagne glass was a producer set-up. There is no way I will believe that Dorit was organically given two opportunities to educate us on stemware. I would have bought one, but I caught on with the second one. This was clearly arranged and agreed upon in advance, with at least Dorit, if not also Teddi, being in on it. Yawn. What else have you got, Bravo? Lategate? More yawning. Go back to the horse show. There is some serious money there, Bravo, you just need to learn how to work that into a story.

I think that the producers decided to give Shannon a crappy season. Vicki is everybody's favorite villain, but if the other cast members refuse to film with her, there can be no drama. I think Shannon put her foot down and said absolutely no Vicki for me, and the producers snickered and thought, then you can be the drama. And then they told Lydia and Peggy what their job was- go after Shannon. I think Lydia is a bit too obvious with it, so the producers mess with her a little, like showing the $1800 total at the store while she pranced around acting like she bought a small country. She overplays her fed lines at every turn (balls voyage for example) I think Peggy must be making them happy because they are allowing her to control her storyline. Her narrative seems to be that she's Armenian, her husband is quirky and attentive, they are wildly rich and live lavishly, and her schtick is struggling with the English language. Meanwhile, she's actually quite good at the English language and her job, because she's managed to keep her cancer situation confusing and ambiguous, and it is so clearly on purpose to trap Shannon.

Hard to describe, but for Kyle and LVP-more like it was absurd and less like they were betrayed by her going there. For Dorit- less deer in headlights.

I think the all of the responses to Rinna's question made it clear that there was some sort of drug use at the dinner party. Kyle nearly fell off her chair, LVP called it a low blow and Dorit said "she" certainly wasn't. I think something went down at that party. No one responded as if it was an absurd accusation. Just as if it was a low blow. At least at first, until they collected themselves. I don't think there was a herd of party guests in the bathroom together while Rinna was stuck at the table. I still firmly believe asking that question, in that way means that production had already assured LR that if she asked the question they would back her up with the shot of the empty table. While I never would have guessed cocaine, and still have no idea if this is an accurate guess, I do think Dorit seemed a little out of it that night. Drunk- drugged- overtired- jet lagged. It could have been anything and I certainly didn't leap the the idea that it was coke.

I bet all is well partly because Kyle knows that LVP wasn't wrong. I'm sure Kyle was annoyed because anytime someone talks over you and tries to explain your intentions and thoughts, it would be annoying. Even more so if you had carefully concocted a way to make yourself look beyond reproach. I like Kyle, and I think LVP is manipulative, but in this case, I think Kyle was the one manipulating, and what she was manipulating was everyone else's memory and interpretation of what we've seen.

I certainly hope that when Rinna gets back on the couch Andy or someone address the fact that Rinna and Erika were both very ungracious in their acceptance of Eden's gifts.

I think Rinna's tears were real, and here's why. I don't think it had anything to do with Kim or the bunny. She hates Kim. I think she realized Andy had set her up, and that hurt. I certainly could be wrong, but that is my take on it. And to take it a step further, I think the producers egged her into the cocaine accusation. The timing, the way in which she said it, the video footage of Rinna and Mintz alone at the table.... I just do, I think Rinna was prodded to do it. And she did it, she brought Bravo and Andy the big wow moment they were looking for, so I think she felt safe and protected on her side of the couch and was stunned to realize Andy had set her up with the bunny.

What I do find ironic, is Erika's sniper from the side, LVP, brought all of this on by inquiring about Erika's underwear, then actually committing the true violation of the night, when she slid her hand up Erika's dress, causing Erika to be eventually be embarrassed, distressed, talked about and whatever else, and I don't believe she was ever once held accountable for it. The win for this season goes to the side-sniper.

This is where we will have to agree to disagree. The way I see it, she did have control over her choice to go sans underwear. She did have control over her own proclamation that she wasn't wearing any. Whether she said it provocatively or not. I do think it was a quick reaction to being taken by surprise, but it was her own reaction over which she had control. And finally, through very very conscious and careful leg placement all night, she had control over whether a view to the top was possible. It doesn't absolve PK of being a creep the next day, or even that night if he looked intentionally. I just don't think she was violated in a way that bears any comparison to a woman who was raped and then slut shamed.

Would it be ok to ogle her genital area while she is on stage in small sliver of material pantomiming and saying, "Pat the puss?" I have not and will not use the word deserved in this discussion as it's not my word. But here is why I do not think this situation is the same as slut shaming a rape victim. Erika Jayne/Girardi created a stage character who invites people to look at her in a sexual way. While in this character she displays large slivers of views of her private areas, and directs attention there frequently. That character and persona aims to have people look at her sexually. That character aims to make an impression on people and have them talking about her, although presumably she would prefer it be in a positive way. That character opened a show with the intent to have "cocks throbbing" from their looking. Erika did not have on underwear when out to dinner with "friends" while filming for a TV show, and when the conversation went in that direction, she announced it in a somewhat provocative way. This is very important to the discussion. Had she kept quiet, and everything else played out exactly as it had, I would agree with you that she was violated. I think she blurred her own lines at the dinner. She looked demure but acted provocatively. Even if we assume PK looked on purpose, I don't think in this particular situation (looking not touching) with this particular woman (because she sends invitations to look) is comparable to a rape victim. PK is no gentleman for doing this. My argument is not in his favor in any way. I think it all reflects poorly on him regardless of what E J/G says.

EJ to Dorit- "...because it's easy to live under the shadow of a powerful man." This was such a fascinating line for me, because it was delivered with complete sincerity. I am curious as to whether the editing made the exchange come after PK's time on the stage or whether it really did come after that, because Erika connected with Dorit there in an important way, and it changed how she was talking to Dorit.

No, it isn't the same at all, because you inserted the word "should" and that changes the meaning dramatically. I am NOT stating what she SHOULD be fine with. I stated that I do not believe she WOULD be (was) embarrassed. The "important shit" part is that following that logic, I stated that because I don't believe she would be embarrassed by that, I think this entire storyline from Erika's point of view has some ulterior motive. The formula for the show is you are the one who is wronged, or you are the one doing someone wrong. Or you are Kyle. For some reason she gets to stand nearby and make faces. But for everyone else- been wronged or doing someone wrong-with some shopping, a theme party, and a fun trip or two as the backdrop. I think Erika or Tom, or hey, maybe Mikey- someone understood that and chose this as a way for Erika to be "the one who is wronged."

If I didn't find Eileen so exhausting, I'd be very sad for her. First Erika, the object of her affection, goes bananas on her in Hong Kong. For which Erika apologizes by having her staff make up Eileen so that Erika can say that the transformation made her "pretty" and "the most popular girl"- which implies she was neither to begin with. Then at the finale, Erika had the opportunity to call her a friend, but instead referred to Eileen as "someone who has been so nice to me" Eileen, sweetie, she just doesn't like you the way you like her. And it's a little sad to watch

Something I noticed. Eileen was quite certain that Dorit discussed her mom's death. Very certain, despite the fact that she wasn't there. Rinna was very very certain that Dorit said she had a pill problem. A forum full of women who saw the whole season can't even agree on whether or not she said that. Erika was quite certain that Dorit and PK said she flashed him on purpose. I believe the producers told the women Dorit said these things, or showed footage where she actually did, because they were all a little too certain of what had been said at a time they weren't even there.

There is no was that I can put any credibility in the idea that Erika was embarrassed by panty-gate. Tom is a smart man, perhaps he controlled the narrative here. Maybe he gave her an idea of a storyline to run with. Because there is no way on earth that I will ever believe that a woman who performs nearly naked while gyrating in almost exclusively sexual moves, while singing vulgar lyrics, in a show that began with a pep talk like the one Mikey delivered.....that woman is not embarrassed that a man looked at her and saw up her skirt. Nope. Not a chance.

At the beginning of the season, I found Dorit to be selling herself hard as a rich BH woman. Which, to be fair, is what the show is about and why I watch it- to see the rich and pampered lifestyle I don't have for myself. But, she was selling it hard and it came off as feeling a little much. Additionally, I initially found her to be a bit rude to Erika. So imagine how surprised I am that by the end of the season the obnoxiousness of Erika and Rinna and Eileen has me actually rooting for Dorit. I watched Dorit agree with PK that it was wrong for Eileen to not give some indication that her mom had passed, I completely believe Dorit threw the pill incident into every conversation possible because she did want to imply there might be a problem, or at least open the door for someone else to explore it, and I think she took panty-gate a little too far. And yet I still whole-heartedly side with Dorit. The other 3 were that absurd and exhausting.

I'm wondering if what Erika thought would upset Tom and warrant an apology is something we haven't seen. Sometimes I forget that there are hours and hours of interactions that land on the cutting room floor. The other thing I wondered is if Erika has been carefully and slowly planting hints that Tom is controlling for her own purposes. He may actually be- heck, he probably is- but is she intentionally and cagily bringing us this knowledge bit by bit? And the last thing I wonder about Erika is if she is just trying to battle her own PR issues. She is considered cold and standoffish, so we are served up a trip home that seems to be entirely for the purpose of letting us know how mean her mom was. People are condemning her for leaving her son when he was young and we get the Mother of Year meltdown over her son's safety. I'm not sure what I think about her and her life and antics- she's a tough one to figure out.

Dorit was talking about Erika and pantygate often. IMO it would be reasonable for Erika to be annoyed that someone was talking about her for any reason. Just because she was talking about her. Period. But then Erika throws in the whole my husband will be angry, you make me look like a slut nonsense and loses all credibility. It's as if she actually believes Erika Girardi is a different person than Erika Jayne, because obviously for Erika Jayne this would be no big deal. As far as the pills, it is absurd to sit in a room with 2 women who have talked someone else's sobriety to death, and then have one of them whip out a bag of bills like that and claim some of them are Xanax, and that she pops them in smoothies. Of course it is, and Dorit knew this. She did bring it up to the others, but it was carefully done in a way that she tried to keep her hands clean while throwing it out there. What she obviously meant was that it was absurd the way it went down and also not impossible that Rinna herself has a problem. She opened the door for the other women to engage in a conversation about Rinna's pill problem and they didn't take the bait. But I fully believe Dorit was hoping they would. And, I have to assume Rinna was also hoping they would. Because that is one woman that only makes sense to me if she is in fact on drugs. Why would you whip out a bag of pills on camera? Or say what she did about Harry and a strap on? It's either a complete loss of sensibility (drugs) or a calculated attempt to be so wildly out there that she makes news. And, while I know the second option is possible, the first feels more likely. Lisa V was downright awful to Rinna all season, but as I don't like Rinna at all, I can't find it in me to care.

I don't remember the details of the conversation between Eileen and LVP about the affair. I wish I did. I have seen it stated here that Eileen said that she can't understand why people who are divorced can't keep it civil- that she is civil with all parties involved in her past relationships. If that is the case, maybe she needed a come down at that point. (again I really have to re-watch it) IMO, the person who breaks up a marriage doesn't get to claim maturity or anything else for keeping a civil relationship with their new spouses ex. Any kudos for that would go to Vince's ex. As I remember it, LVP did cross a line a bit in terms of what I'd like a friend to say to me, but Eileen is a little responsible for opening the door. They are paid to bring a certain amount of drama, and all of them would do well to remember that. Whatever LVP did to Eileen, Eileen gave it back tenfold. If I were Vince's ex, I wouldn't attempt to go up against Eileen either.

I think LVP absolutely said to Rinna, "Oh my, I was afraid you were going to bring Kyle into it." And I believe what she meant is you should think about bringing Kyle into it. Her words have deniability, but I think the intent was there. I don't think LVP was super invested in that outcome, just threw it out there as an option and it didn't really stick.. I think the reason she said it was that Kyle was stupid enough to have been texting snarky comments about Yolanda to Rinna. I think LVP was making the same comments and wasn't stupid enough to text them. LVP instantly came in and gave Kyle fair warning of what she had done and Kyle said no way, sister. End of story. They both understand each other, how each other operates, and the fact that they are on a show that requires them to bring some amount of drama. I think Rinna is like a live exposed wire. I don't think she is being manipulated in the sense that I would normally mean that. I think her makeup is such that she herself is this frazzled, wild, exposed wire of energy and when any energy comes into the room with her, she absorbs it and gives it back tenfold. In that sense, I think she is genuine in that she feels whatever she is feeling that moment. And she feels it BIG, BIG, BIG. But often, IMO, this aspect of her causes her to feel things that aren't there for real for her, or won't be there later for her. I think Eileen brings nothing but drama to the table. I assume it's on purpose. Her job as a celebrity real housewife of BH is to be fabulous. She is anything but. Her clothes are off the rack and unflattering, and outdated to boot. I think she could work a Tori Burch kind of bohemian chic look, but she'd need the glam squad to help her figure out what that was and how to pull it off. So- fabulous fashion-no. Her husband is at least edited to be portrayed as boring, lazy and uninterested in her. So does she bring fairytale romance to the table?-no. She has thrown no lavish parties, introduced us to no celebrities, etc, etc. Basically, she brings no fabulosity to the table, so she instead brings drama. Presumably to keep her job. And in doing so, she ends up looking like a bitch with no point. Now she is a non-fabulous bitch. Unfortunately for her, I think her contract should end here.

I think Shannon is by far the most brilliant wronged wife I have ever seen. She could have stepped down from the show, she could have chosen to attempt to hide everything, and she could have booted David out the door. Any of the 3 would have been worth only a few minutes of fame. Instead, she chose to publicly work on getting over David's infidelity, and this way she got to out him over and over and over, week after week. That had to feel good. I'm wondering if that was really her only end game.

I actually can believe that the "marriage won't last" talk was hurtful for Hayley. - It's her father, and he's on his 3rd wife, so there is some validity to the suggestion, and most children would be hurt by having their parent's flaws talked about on TV. -Regardless of whether Hayley & Meghan's relationship is perfect, a person in the process of losing their parent doesn't want to think about the very real possibility that another important person in their life may be on their way out the door. -I have teenage daughters. The fact that Hayley sometimes rolls her eyes at and mocks Meghan is actually evidence to me that she does view Meghan in a mother-ish way. Have ya'll SEEN a teenage daughter with her mother before? LOL

I can't help but wonder if Vicki and Shannon had that falling out off camera and Bravo forced them to reenact it at the lunch. Shannon was way, way "off" from her normal self. It felt very unnatural.