Carrie Ann

But see on TVD, if they had a scene like this, it would only be so D/E can moon at each other sadly for a few episodes. Any time they do something to ostensibly make Elena seem like a good person, they manage to actually just make her more self-centered. Like the S5 stuff with dead Bonnie and missing/damaged Stefan. Her sadness and concern about them was repeatedly shown to be selfish in nature--she wanted them back and better so that she could be happy and guilt-free with Damon again. She said that over and over. As long as the writers value Delena over Elena, they devalue every other relationship she has as well. Aaaanyway. I forgot that in this episode, in the midst of Elena showing what felt like real concern over Liz, she also managed to be a total pill to Stefan for trying to help Caroline, which she herself couldn't be bothered to do at any point.

Now that we're halfway through the season, and I'm still not super crazy about the show, I think some things have crystallized for me about why that is. It's little nuances in the characters/relationships that I wish were different, because it would make a huge difference for me in terms of investment. --With Barry and Iris, I wish their BFF status was more pronounced. Here's what I mean: my BFF and I default to hanging out with each other, inviting each other to things, introducing each other to anyone else important in our lives. We're sort of a package deal. (And we're both married, so it's not a matter of just not having SOs to take up that position in our lives.) And I love that Barry's not trying to hide the Star Labs side of his life. He doesn't have to hide his friendships with Caitlin and Cisco. So we had that one brief scene of all of them at Jitters where Iris was working and Cisco and Caitlin were hanging with Barry. And then they were all at Christmas at Joe's. But I would love to see all of them hanging out in a real way, with C & C becoming friends with Iris themselves. There's no barrier to it, and it's a nice way for her to be integrated in the whole show, instead of siloed with Barry, Joe, and Eddie (the way Laurel was with Oliver, Quentin, and Tommy in Arrow S1 for example). Also, I wish that their BFF dynamic was a little different. They've shown instances of Iris being protective of Barry (and of course he of her, but mostly in Flashmode), but I wish they would show this more often, and in a fierce way, in order to avoid that sibling/mothering vibe. Recently, their dynamic has just been a little...ugh. I think the show introduced conflict between them too early, first with the "you should stop writing this blog" thing and then the declaration of love thing. We didn't have enough time to establish their deep connection first, so now it just feels sort of unearned, to me. All tell and not enough show. I wish it felt like they are basically the most important person to each other (in addition to their dads), and that they come first for each other, etc. Right now, we see that more from Barry, and it's sort of tainted by the fact that he's apparently been in love with her the whole time he's known her. --Caitlin and Barry/Ronnie: Okay, this is mostly my problems with Caitlin, but it's connected to why I don't ship her with Barry or even really care much about their friendship. Caitlin, for me, is all over the board in terms of her personality traits, her reactions to things, her characterization in general. I'm putting half of that down to performance. DP is just not clicking for me yet, at all. I don't think she has a good handle on her face, for one thing--just a technical acting issue. I think there are times her mouth or eyes are doing things that make no sense for the scene. Same with line delivery. She could use some work (and she's been in the biz forever and I'm sure has taken tons of acting classes, so I don't know how much improvement we'll see from her). But the other 50% is in the writing. Inconsistent characterization all over the place. They tell me about this "frost" thing, that she's cold and only Ronnie brought out her warm side. But then they write her like she's Felicity most of the time. She's very warm, open with her emotions, mother-henning all over the lab. I would prefer the former. I wish they would just write her as logical, stoic, impassive. She could have those moments of warmth that show her affection for Cisco and Barry, but they should be subtle. I need them to get rid of the Mother Hen aspect immediately, because I hate it and it makes me have no interest in a romantic relationship with Barry and her. The little wimmins worrying about their Superhero Men is my least favorite dynamic in comic book love stories, and this would be no exception. So anyway, I wish she were basically written and acted like...you know, actually, maybe like early Oliver Queen, only in doctor form. Stoic, haunted, still warm under all of that but only in flashes, but still friendly and caring. That would make her big emotions with and about Ronnie even more believable and impactful. Speaking of which, the ease she's shown in letting go of finding Ronnie is a terrible writing choice. I'm sorry, but if you spent nine months believing your fiance was killed, and then you see him in this crazy condition, no matter what he said to you, wouldn't you be desperate to find and help him? This makes no sense and undercuts their relationship, to me.

I laughed, and then I cried. Ugh. But anyway, I feel about 70% sure that Felicity will date Ray, and that she will be split 50/50 in her Vigilante Support duties between TA and Ray. Then I expect the end of season to be that Ray is going to expand his PT operations in Central City, and wants Felicity to go with him. So I'm hoping her final choice will be going to CC with Ray and the Flash mob, or staying in SC (this decision will have ZERO narrative weight btw because we all know the answer in advance). It sounds like Oliver and Ray are sharing scenes in future episodes, and I have to imagine some of that is related to business? I hope? So maybe they'll be friendly by the end and Ray will ask Oliver to take over or run the SC operation. Anyway, yeah, it would be cool if the EPs would talk about Felicity as though she were more than a love interest, and that she has bigger concerns than that. It's pretty revealing when it comes to her story this season. Everything has tied back to her love life, with the exception of Mama Smoak. But she's a big exception, so it makes up for a lot.

To be honest, I thought the Barry/Linda scenes fell completely flat. Especially that first one in the bar. Just really awkward to me. (The sound mixing might have been an issue there though--anyone notice how quiet that bar was?) And I didn't feel much in the Barry/Caitlin scenes either. For now, the only Barry relationships I'm really interested in are those with his three father-figures. But yeah, at this point on Arrow, I only cared about Oliver's relationship with Diggle and basically nothing else. So The Flash is ahead of the game, in that way.

Thank you, God bless you. I can handle a Diggle-centric episode. Hoping that's what it actually feels like.

I just posted a photo that SA posted on his Instagram that makes it appear he's in Palm Springs today, and I get the feeling maybe he's been in CA for the whole weekend. I think CH has been out of Vancouver for a few days too. Maybe I don't have the typical shooting schedule straight, but...shouldn't they be filming?

amelladventures 28 minutes ago · Palm Springs, California Feels like a Tuesday. SA posted this cuteness today, which leads me to some questions...

No, it's now a true ensemble, in case you haven't heard.

I think the suit looks fine, but now seeing him in it, yeah it doesn't fit Arrow. It would fit better on The Flash--and I hear you Flash fans backing away slowly, but I'm one of you. I watch and like that show too. I just think he's staying in-universe for the time being, and to me, it makes more sense to have him at least part-time on The Flash.

You've all covered all the things I liked about the episode. All I have left to say is that as much crap as I like to give JP and Co., I have to give them that they hit a grand slam with their recasts of the Mikaelsons. We've talked a lot about Finn and Kol, and I liked nuEsther too, but this episode definitely sold me on nuRebekah. Maisie Richardson-Sellers hit all the notes I love about Rebekah. Seriously, she was right on for me. I feel a little disloyal, but since it's CH's choice not to be on the show, I'm so relieved they found such a great replacement. The only bummer is that she still can't be with Klaus...sorry. But seriously, why does JM have so much chemistry with both versions of Bex? I liked their tiny smiley scene at the end better than any he's shared with his alleged love interests on this show. Sigh. The thing that's great about Finn is...everything. But particularly what's great is that I hate him--I find his motivations and single-mindedness irritating and strangely illogical--but I don't care at all, and in fact I find myself almost rooting for him in his scenes because of Yusuf Gatewood. He's just so full of that righteous zeal. It's that thing about how everyone sees themselves as the hero of the story, no one thinks they're the villain. Finn absolutely thinks he's the hero, and from a certain moral perspective, he's right, and I totally buy it from him.

Also Robbie Amell is costarring in a movie with Mae Whitman from Parenthood, so that's the connection for his photos and tweets from today.

Fingers crossed, because that's the exact scenario I want, in terms of Felicity getting pissed off at Oliver. Thanks for the heads up, too, because I would have probably skipped that commercial.

I want the Alison one. Her perfect pose with that hand against her cheek! These are awesome.

I wish I could argue against the point that this season has damaged the Steroline connection, but I can't. It has. They've taken just about the worst possible path, and I'm just hoping against hope that they work that TVD magic on it in the second half of the season. But I definitely have reservations. I don't feel like Caroline is a consolation prize for Stefan though. I think that's how it would have felt, had they not taken all this time, and had they not dismantled Stelena first. That's why I think I came around. First I had to let go of the idea of Elena ever improving as a character and of Stelena, as the show obviously has, and then I came to really root for Steroline.

This whole storyline is making me like Lavon so much less, and that's a real bummer. I was really intrigued by Lavon/Lemon back in S1, and I get that they never really had their chance. But...not this way, show. I wish that Lemon didn't know about Lavon's feelings, and he could have been quietly pining in the background, while AB got over him in whatever way the show chose, and THEN Lemon found out, or realized she still had feelings for him, or whatever. Because I don't like this dynamic of two best friends in love with the same guy, but he only likes one of them. Even if AB gets her happily-ever-after with someone else, it will still feel like a consolation. And it didn't have to be this way. Sigh, I love this little show, but on reflection, there are just so many little missteps like this. (Or big ones, like most of Season 3?)

TVD hasn't introduced a good "new" character since the Mikaelsons, in my opinion. I don't give a shit about Luke, Liv, or Jo. I've never cared about any of Elena or Bonnie's distraction love interests. So the whole "bring on someone new" for Caroline and Stefan just falls flat for me. I can say with assurance that I wouldn't care about those characters at all, and it would only sideline C and/or S if they were stuck in a sideplot developing a new character. And this is a teen (now 20s) vampire romance show. The characters are going to be in various states of romantic relationships, always. So I don't buy into the idea that any of the characters should particularly be solo for any extended period of time, just because that's not the nature of the show. In real life? Sure. Here, that's never going to happen. So personally, I'm pro-Steroline because: Step 1--JP and CD utterly destroyed Stelena, brick by brick. First they ruined Elena as a character, which would have been enough, but the damage they've done to those two and purposeful friendzoning has killed that ship for me for good. Step 2--I came to really enjoy and root for Steroline I think because they've taken so much time developing it. I mean, it's honestly been in the works for two full seasons, and not one explicitly romantic thing has happened yet. It feels more like a natural transition, and honestly like a natural next step for these two people who are so much closer to self-actualized than their previous love interests were. I like them, and I'm really rooting for the show not to drop the ball on this storyline as they have almost every other I've even half-enjoyed since S3. I get that a lot of people don't like them, but I don't think the Steroline fandom was big enough or vocal enough for this story to be a result of that. At all. Other than Delena, Klaroline is/was certainly the loudest fandom. Just my take.

I know there are a few fans who truly love Elena, so I'm not trying to discount them. That said, I used to be a member of that group, and now I hate her. At this point, I think most of the fandom either hates her, or tolerates her because they love Damon and whatever makes Damon happy is what they want for him. Now, I think many of those pro-Damon people came over to the Bamon side when that was finally teased this year, because of Delena fatigue, and because they like Bonnie better as a character than Elena. I think that's a fairly accurate snapshot of TVD fandom as it pertains to Elena, but others may see it differently. You're certainly not alone in your frustration with her. But I will say that this season seems less Elena-centric than past seasons. It's...possible that that's because I'm making better use of my FF button though. I skipped the Delena hallway scene entirely. But I was happy to see some emotion from her about Liz, because it's a person not directly connected to her, and her illness/death doesn't directly impact Elena. It's been awhile since she's shown any concern about people who fall into that category. That said, yep, I hate all these assholes for not getting Bonnie back. Burn 'em all, Bon Bon.

The jump-the-shark thing made me more pessimistic than ever this morning, but thinking about it more reasonably, my guess is that it's as much of a hyperbole as anything else MG ever says. So with that in mind, I would have to guess that it's something as minor and predictable as Oliver working for the "enemy" for awhile, or something as out there as Zombie Tommy or Sara. Another option is the "It was alllll a dreaaaaammm" route, though I think if this is the case, it might only revert back to when he "died" and what we'll see is that he did die, he was put in an LP, and everything has changed in Starling since he died (with possible time jump) (also possibly only the things from 312-315 are a dream), then Ra's makes The Offer. Worst case scenario? Something that changes the format of the show into a co-lead situation.

Yeah, Nyssa is training Laurel for sure. A woman is, based on all of MG's annoying "...oh, but that would be telling" responses to questions about more scenes with women together. I don't know why he's doing that because he or others have basically explicitly said Nyssa would be helping Laurel in various ways. So maybe she does offer herself, and the arrangement is that Nyssa will train her in Starling for...reasons? I don't know. OR SARA IS COMING BACK please for the love of God.

Yeah, I should have been more clear: I can see the story/motivation reasons why it would undersell and be illogical for Oliver to get with another woman. And those story reasons aren't there for Felicity at all, which is why I was rooting for her to date someone else after The Calm. I just meant that on an emotional resonance level, the same thing is happening for me on Felicity's side, so far. They're undercutting what they're trying to sell as a great love by not allowing her character to express those emotions, and by having her act in ways that feel counter to it, sometimes. Or maybe they're not trying to sell it that way. Maybe they really do want people to be guessing as to her feelings at this point, until she finally expresses them in a big scene and all is revealed. I'm counting on the latter part happening, at least.

(Bringing this over from the Felicity thread because I'm mostly talking about her relationships.) I am one of the people who saw two moments in 311 between Ray and Felicity that I felt were flirtatious, though I don't think that word is entirely accurate. I just don't think there is a word...maybe encouragingly intimate? Though I think that sounds worse, it's actually closer to what I mean. And if Felicity was showing that she is open and interested in his romantic attentions, I'm not saying there's anything morally wrong with that. But a week after Oliver's death, it does undercut that connection, for me personally. Like, I can in no way see the same thing happening on Oliver's side, at this point. And I think it's funny how SA used that language this summer to shoot down the idea of Oliver getting with Sara or Laurel again--that after what he says in The Calm, getting with other women would undersell/undercut that emotion. But the writers ignored that concern when it came to Felicity--and I'm NOT talking about her wanting to date someone else when Oliver shut her down. That's not the problem for me. The problem for me lies in where and how the development of that relationship has intersected with her relationship with Oliver. I'm talking about scenes like the one where they had Felicity beam up at Ray as he announced the erasure of the Queen family name from that company (particularly when we have no concrete reason to believe that Oliver and Felicity had a conversation about this in advance), for one example. Now, I think there is time to right the ship in this regard, once we start hearing from Felicity herself. Fingers and toes crossed SO HARD for 312, guys. And for the sake of the relationship feeling balanced when it ultimately happens, I'd like there to be a little bit of give on both of their sides. I don't want it to be Oliver 100% in the wrong and the only one who needs to change. The fact is that neither of them have tried for this since the first episode. They both shut it down. Yes, Oliver was the one who initiated that shutdown and I don't put the onus on Felicity to fix it by any means. He pushed her away, but she ran, too. She could have fought him on it at any point, and she chose not to. A very believable choice, and not one I judge, but like SA said w/r/t Oliver: "If we're not taking risks with our heart, then what are we even doing here?" I'd like that to be acknowledged in the end, I guess, just so that it doesn't feel like Oliver's the sad puppy at the door begging to be let in. Again--not my favorite ship dynamic, personally.

I've watched the entire season, several episodes/scenes multiple times, and I remain uncomfortable with the way they've portrayed Felicity in several instances--the OOC stuff in Guilty and this Sara voice thing--but also in her dynamic with both Oliver and Ray. It's not just this episode, for me, it's a culmination of a season's worth of seeing and hearing so little from Felicity herself, and of moments that cause cognitive dissonance for me. That dissonance stems from the fact that I had certain beliefs about her feelings for Oliver and about the strength of their relationship, and there have been several moments that gave me that immediate "No, that's not right" reaction. The two scenes with Ray are examples of that for me, in that I did read the flirty vibe in them. (And there are many people, here and around the internet, whose gut feeling was the same. This isn't a matter of watching this or any other scene in the right or wrong way. It's a matter of perception, and opinions based on our different perceptions.) And I'm going to take the rest of this to the Relationships thread.

Yeah, this is pretty standard for the lead actor(s) after a few seasons. Many of them negotiate for producer credit--a few examples off the top of my head are Bones, Psych, House.

I guess I disagree because I read that "you're going to love it" response about the voice distortion as being about the Sara voice. We'll probably never know for sure because after all of this, I don't expect him to try to defend it, or to own up to really believing people--even Laurel fans--would love that little twist. But if you believe that's what he thought, that's what he meant, then it makes you see the lie and the Sara ruse a little differently. I see him thinking it's a no-win situation: that Lance will be hurt and upset, but that Laurel had really good reasons for doing what she did. We'll see how it plays out. It would be great if Laurel's consequences for this action fit the crime, but I have no expectation of that.

The lying to Quentin thing doesn't fall into that oopsie category for me either. I can see if they underestimated how little sympathy people would have for Laurel in that scenario--they seem incapable of understanding how widely disliked she is--but almost every review or recap from 3A that touched on the lie (not even counting social media chatter) mentioned how horrible it was and begged the show to just tell him already. So acting like it's a real surprise that people are incensed when you take that lie to its cruelest, grossest end? That's either lying to get away with your plot-guided character missteps, or it's willful blindness.