Jel

The mom, sheesh. Rachel didn’t save the show, Ariana did. If we didn’t care about Ariana getting done so wrong, this would just be another garden variety reality show cheating event.

Yes, I thought that remark was very revealing. Ick.

That article! The writer seems to think it’s more traumatizing to be yelled at at the reunion than having your entire world blown up. I mean wtf?

I don't think "owe" is the right word. She doesn't owe me anything, but as a viewer, if she wants me to stop thinking of her as a baddie, I need to see that she's legitimately remorseful, contrite, and has a plan to not behave like that again. But ZettaK, I am not sure what you are asking me for. In another post, you said you thought she'd taken enough accountability and I disagreed with that. I didn't say she exhibited any bad behavior, post reunion, I said I hadn't seen any examples of her behaving in a way to show true accountability, which includes being responsible for the outcome of her actions. Her level of accountability appears to be, basically, "my bad". Admitting to something is not the same as taking accountability, at least based on my understanding of the word. I assume you're responding to my "She's paid a lot of lip service, but her actual behavior? No, I don't see it". So, that's another way of saying talk is cheap. Or actions speak louder than words. The behaviors I have seen her demonstrate were some rather tearless crying, exposing the lies and sketchiness of Tom Sandoval, but only when it suited her interests (color me unimpressed) and finally disappearing into what may or may not be a mental health facility for the past few months. I mean good for her to take care of herself, but that wasn't done for Ariana. I'd like to see a sincere apology from her, which includes contrition, a promise not to do anything like that again, and, most importantly, behavior that actually matches the words. If she wants to embrace the villain role and become the Lisa Rinna or a Tamra Judge of VPR, then she's on the right track for that. But, if she wants to return to the good graces of this viewer, she'll have to do a lot more than just taking care of herself. That's how I feel about it, mileage may vary.

Well, I see the conversion to being a good person didn’t take. Tamra isn’t even a love to hate character. She is just awful, and her endless , obvious shit stirring is played out. Why is she back? She’s the Rinna of OC. Insufferable.

Do you think it’s possible that Bravo is paying?

That’s a great point, KFB. Why did she pursue/pretend to pursue Schwartz? It was seen as a girl code violation when we thought she was interested in him, and chose to pursue him anyway. But she wasn’t even interested, so why do it? I agree with you—there’s no way to see her as a victim in that scenario. In hindsight, knowing she had zero interest in Schwartz, it seems much worse. She used Schwartz, and she fucked with Katie’s emotions for sport. Not nice.

I don’t think she has taken any accountability at all. She’s paid a lot of lip service, but her actual behavior? No, I don’t see it.

It probably does. And that’s further proof that they are all full of it. All the “real concern “ for Rachel’s mental health. Which is it? Are the producers really concerned for her mental health? If they are, they are up to the point of how much they think she can do for ratings, adding to their bottom line. So, willing to exploit someone they think has serious mental health issues. Or, do they think she’s embarrassed and disappointed that she’s lost the good will of so many fans, but that the mental health issues are mainly a pr move? In which case, that ep who was interviewed and expressed his concern for Rachel was mostly full of it. It’s all so off putting!

Minor detail, but iirc the press release from Rachel’s “team” said she was in a behavioral treatment centre. Am I misremembering that?

Agreed. I just have no desire to see those two win. It’s not even just no desire, it’s no stomach for it. I feel like selfishness, self-absorption, bad behavior etc in these reality shows has jumped the shark. I can’t take anymore.

It might be good for her mental health, but it won’t be good for mine. I hate it when baddies prosper.

She is a user. And there’s a method to her madness. The more I learn, the less I like.

Completely agree. Tamra is a ham, and a delusional one if she thinks we can’t tell she’s acting. Shannon and her yoga , all the falling over, equally hammy. Do they come with a stiletto heel? 😜

One life lesson I learned pretty early is that people who don't have any friends usually don't have friends for a reason. That reason: they don't know how to be a friend. This is Rachel. Lots of people have social anxiety, and Rachel's seems pretty mild, as she is after all on a tv show, and has participated in the look at me -look at me world of beauty pageants for many years. She may have discalculia or something, but she's not intellectually challenged or anything like that. I think her apparent "slowness" is a product of her social anxiety, which affects her reactions and causes her to freeze momentarily because it pretty much vanishes when she's comfortable with the people she's interacting with. I'm a pragmatist, so i think she'd be best served by sitting with her feelings a bit and then carefully examining her own behaviors to see where she went wrong, understand why what she did was wrong, and what she could do to be a better person. Rachel is not the victim in this scenario, she is one of the perpetrators. The important thing for her is that she recognizes what she did wrong and then takes steps to ensure she never does that or anything like it again. She can recover from it if she's truly remorseful and makes a sincere, dedicated effort to change, but if she's going to keep on putting her wants and needs above those of others, it won't go well for her, imo.

Yes I am aware. And please don’t call me Shirley. I was referring to the amount of talking Lala was doing. She and her almost non stop talking took up a lot of the 1.25 hours of the show.

Just watched this. It appeared to me that Rachel was showing remorse. I don’t know what exactly she was remorseful about—losing her friends, getting caught, looking bad, hurting people? I don’t know. But she did appear remorseful to me anyway. Found it interesting that she says she hates lying so very much since people don’t ordinarily hate doing the things they are so good at. Ahem. From reading around, I expected Lisa to be wildly defending Sandy and Rach. Did not see that at all. At some point, not even sure if it was this episode tbh, but at some point she did say something like she hoped people would be able to have compassion and forgive. Lovely sentiment, but way too soon. When someone has been betrayed like Ariana was, a “hope” like that, at that time, comes across as minimizing. I don’t see what any of this had to do with Lala, so why she was talking so much, and why she was permitted to interrupt so much is beyond me. It’s like she was starting to feel guilty about how horrible she was to Raquel in prior seasons, then she found this out and just doubled down. Rachel’s terrible behavior doesn’t absolve Lala of hers. Scheana, who befriended and took in, and supported defended lying Rachel, had much more of a right to be pissed, imo. But of course Lala was in there sucking all the air out of the room. Why Andy or Lisa didn’t tell her to stop, I can’t understand. And sit down. And Ariana said some mean things for sure, but they seemed to come from a very raw place of deep hurt. For now, I’ll reserve my compassion for the people who didn’t selfishly blow up another woman’s life.

I just watched a bunch of episodes- and the very first thing that struck me was the absolute ease with which Rachel lies. And very convincingly! And all smiles and giggles, even an eye roll or two at the suggestion that she was sleeping with Sandoval, while she was well into the affair with him!

Without going on and on about this, I’ll just say that in the rando cheating scenario, you’re betrayed and hurt by a partner. In the friend scenario, you’re betrayed by your partner and your friend. In the words of the great Nigel Tuffnel, “Well, it’s one louder, isn’t it?. Two betrayals for the price of one. It goes to eleven!

I fear there may be a tambourine or a triangle in her future.

In the law, we recognize degrees of severity of crime. The consequences for a candy bar theft are less than the consequences of stealing someone’s life savings. They are both stealing, so both are criminal and immoral, but one situation is clearly worse. To frame it another way: I have never heard someone make the argument that what Bernie madoff did to his victims is the same as having someone steal your lunch from the office fridge. Why not? It’s all stealing, right? Yes, it is, but one case is bad and the other is much worse. You don’t say to the Madoff victim, “Yes it’s bad that you lost your life savings, but you did steal Bernie’s lunch from the staff room fridge nine years ago, so it’s hypocritical of you to complain about this theft. You also stole, and stealing is stealing. And, you should keep your emotions in check, and you don’t really have a right to feel devastated by this because you stole too.” And I think that we generally understand that when the Madoff victims go off on him, that they are speaking out of extreme hurt and feelings of betrayal? No one changes their opinion of the situation based on words the victims uttered after the fact. Cheating wise, what Tom and Rachel did was Bernie Madoff level stealing and betrayal. In cheating situations, it doesn’t get much worse than having your life partner cheat with a close friend, especially when you took in, championed and defended that friend. The second part makes it so much worse than cheating with a stranger.

“to even criticizing her for not being suspicious “. That is really beyond the pale, hey? Like not just the betrayal and the emotional pain, but the added contempt of suggesting that it was partially *her* fault for trusting her dear friend and her partner of nine years. That is some sick shit.

He always presented himself as a “great guy!”, fun-loving, Would do anything for a friend. But, he treated his then girlfriend, Kristen, horribly. He attempted to make her look like a psycho, while appearing like the long-suffering great boyfriend who did everything he possibly could, but just couldn’t take it anymore. Kristen definitely did behave a little crazy, but he was really doing a number on her. I don’t know if he has changed a lot or if we know him better now. Maybe a bit of both.

She invited him to stay in her room, when she didn’t even have a room?! Was this before or after she kicked Jenny out of her room? The gall level is beyond.

I still have not seen the episode, but I find a lot of Rachel’s “expressionless” is beauty pageant poise— always keep your composure: remain calm, don’t show anger, etc.