Churchhoney

Kevin Swanson shows Ben how seriously we should take the escalating persecution of Christians. This is a massive meme these days, I think. Ben needs to be more creative with his videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-I5yqM5ff4

Interesting insider remembrance of an ATI young woman's event. Possibly kind of encapsulates the struggles that Jinger, Jana, et al may have any time they feel a twinge of the thought, "Hey, why can't I be a full person, too?" https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/08/10/created-to-be-his-doormat-wende-benners-story/ Here's a wee bit about the "no expectations" thing that we've heard the Duggar parrot flock mention: "There were so many sins women were prone to falling into it seemed, and just one of them could not only destroy our lives but the lives of our husband and children. Things such as having expectations from life or loved ones only led us to be contentious and ungrateful. This of course could destroy a family or lead to something even worse- bitterness. Bitterness would give Satan a piece of our soul and was even known to be the cause of certain illnesses (like arthritis) and depression." Here's a bit where you feel horribly sinful for entertaining fantasies or hopes of doing anything except serve your husband: "These sessions made it clear to us God’s only purpose for women was marriage and children (as many children as possible). If we had any other desires or dreams we were sinning.....Of course these weren’t exactly new ideas for someone who had been in ATI for a while, but hearing these things everyday with verses to back them up started to take a toll....I felt trapped. And then I felt shame and guilt. I felt I was so selfish to have other dreams and to not want what God’s design and purpose for me." And the title nugget for the piece: 'The picture of marriage Mrs. Elliot painted was one of loneliness and loss-a place where women were created “gloriously unequal” to men. In fact, she informed us that equality was a political construct, but women were created to be “lesser than” men in order to symbolize the mystery of Christ and the church.....Mrs. Elliot then replied, “Well, I have always said since God made me to be a doormat, I will be the best doormat I can be.”'

Yeah, I agree. She's definitely Emma, to the extent that she's any of them. And for a glimpse of her future, we might look to what happens with Emma. She absolutely requires sensible, learned, down-to-earth, kind -- and tough, older -- Mr. Knightley, who knows her inside and out, to have a chance in hell of turning out to be the person she should be instead of the arrogant, entitled, clueless, immature, sometimes thoughtlessly cruel girl that she is. But Jessa got a weak, dumb, ignorant boy who's besotted with her -- one who's at least as silly, preening, insubstantial and know-it-all as Mr. Elton. Doesn't bode well for Jessa's development and ultimate fate, I expect.

In particular, if all they do is talk I can't understand what the groups do who come. If you're a semi-permanent missionary, I can see how you might spend your time on talk conversion (I don't think it's a good idea, but I understand how it would work.). You'd get to know people, you'd become very proficient in their language and you'd talk with locals regularly, you'd become a part of the community so that you could interact with people and converse with them on a more intimate basis and on their own terms. But when groups come in from the U.S. for a few weeks, none of that is possible. So if they don't do physical work, what the heck do they even do all day? They seem to travel in packs, so it's hard to see how they have conversations with locals. Plus, there can't be any particularly rigorous language requirements for very temporary visitors. So is a skit a week their primary "contribution"? When I've heard people talk about their mission-cations, it's always about all the things they did. Do you really come back from such a thing and have nothing more to say than, We performed a holy skit! In four different villages! I don't see how that even accomplishes the apparent main goal of this stuff -- making U.S. Christians feel good about themselves. Unless they have an unbelievable amount of faith in those skits. In a more rational world, even with this setup, I would expect Jill and Derick's new job, for example, to be helping the visitors learn about the locals and their issues and problems and so on to make them more conscious of the world when they went back to the U.S. or something. But the way this is working, J and D don't seem to know the locals either, so I don't see how they can even do that. Major WTFery.

Or do it with U.S. brand names. Sandwich special: Wonder Bread and Miracle Whip

Or the clueless, loudmouth backwoods Duggar idiocy. I'm not sure the Gothard crowd would really want hyuck hyuck hyuck hey hey hey as their calling card. It didn't go over well in Arkansas politics, and I doubt it goes over that well in Gothard land either. I suspect a lot of people really think Jim Bob damages their credibility. .

Just occurred to me what really troubles me about the suggestion that John David likely has the money to pay for his own commercial-pilot training. I can't stand to contemplate the idea that a 25-year-old man with sickening control-freaky infantilizing parents would stay hanging around with them instead of using his resources to complete his career training and get on with a life of his own. If you actually do have the resources but haven't made the move by the time youi're 25, when are you going to make it?

Well, I'm sure Jim Bob paid for the plane. But how the heck John David could actually have a bought a $300,000 commercial property -- or, in fact, how Jim Bob could have bought it for him, when he was already buying planes, etc. is way beyond me. But, yeah, he could sell that and pay for his pilot's training and his new house in Alaska. If he can manage it, I hope that he does it. Because one thing that's definitely not on his side in the pilot game is age, especially since he's tending toward the chubby right now, I think, and he'll have to pass some significant physicals once he actually starts to compete for jobs and continue to pass those physicals after he's got the job. If he starts today, going full=time after the commercial license, as I understand it, that alone will take him a year or two. Then he'll still need more flight hours and, if he would want the bush pilot option, he'd need some extra training in sea- or ski-plane (or both.) So that could be another half year. That would put him at around 27 and a half or 28, when he starts competing for jobs. And since he'll be mainly be competing with ex-military pilots, they'll have way more flight hours and way more complex flight experience (and in virtually all cases college degrees), so he will almost certainly need to keep racking up the flight hours -- and not in Duggar single-engine jennies but planes that he may have to pay to fly-- in order to compete successfully. So he'd better cash in that property, or his savings account, or whatever today and get moving. And stop wasting his time on non-paying constable jobs and ferrying Duggars to recreational events or events for which they could easily take commercial flights. Because his single-engine daytime flights aren't going to help him much when it comes to getting commercial-flight credentials. And, as I understand it, if you only work part-time toward a commercial pilot's license it can take as long as five years. I would love to see him do this. But then I would love to see Jana, Joy and Jinger run off to a city, get nanny jobs and do clothing alterations on the side while they save up to take college or vocational courses. Not holding my breath for any of it, though.

Well, it just depends on whether he can pay for the training and beat out the many other people who most likely want those jobs. I'm pretty sure you have to get a commercial pilot's license, and then training on top of that. Because the commercial license pretty much assumes you're going to be landing at airports. With runways. Whereas bush pilots have to land wherever. And thread through mountain ranges. And in Alaska, you probably have to have either seaplane training, which is extra, or skiplane training (also extra). So it's still gonna mean cash. And I'm sure he'd have to pay for that on his own! Because Jim Bob ain't paying for no kid of his to move to Alaska! (or anywhere else that requires bush pilots.) So once again we're back to -- How much money do we think JD has on his own? And I have no idea. Yeah, I agree that he probably has few expenses. i do hope he's saving up for something like this. I guess we'll see.

Re: kokapetl -- Whether John David's income is sufficient to pay for enough flight training to get a good pilot job. Well, that's what I wonder. What do you think he's earning? Has he actually got a paying job besides the towing company? The constable thing is unpaid, and so is his piloting, I assume. Or do you think that JB and company pay him to fly? That would be nice, but I really wonder! .... And he's flying around so much with the Duggars, I wonder whether that wouldn't put a crimp in his towing income? I mean, if I knew that a local towing company operator was very often not there to answer my call, I think I'd be likely to call another towing company. Am I missing some element of his income? (I probably am....but I can't think of anything paid except the towing and possibly the piloting).... Maybe he works for Jim Bob in some other capacity? I wonder how much JB pays those kids.

I'm going to respond to this over in the "other Duggars" thread. Just realized we're in the wrong place. ..

True. But I think that Jim Bob is probably still going to constitute a problem if actually flying for a living plays a part in John David's ambitions. And his education would likely also be a problem if he had really serious flying ambitions, although I imagine he knows enough not to aim too high. Even to get a job as a private pilot for an individual or a company, he'll have to be able to fly a multi-engine plane. And he won't be able to do that unless JB is willing to pony up the cash to get him a lot of flight hours in non-Duggar aircraft, since theirs are single engine. I have had a hard time seeing Jim Bob doing that at any time, frankly, since I'm sure JB knows that if one of his kids actually worked as a pilot for someone else, that person wouldn't be master of his own time -- i.e., Jim Bob wouldn't be master of his time. Now, though, with the recent felling of the main money tree, I would gauge JB as probably being even less likely to pay for that. And I don't know that JD can afford it on his own. Even if JD does get the training to fly a multi-engine plane, though, his shot at working for an actual airline or air transport company, even small ones, is extremely slim, I expect. There are a lot of ex-military pilots out there, as well as other people with the requisite training, and most of these people have college degrees and more. And in what seems to be very much an employer's market, JD's homeschooled-and-nothing-beyond self would probably get shoved pretty near the back of the line, even though the education probably isn't really required to do the job.

In my dream world, the magical force that live theater can be would slowly penetrate Derick's and Jill's brains, inspiring them, revealing truths and leading them to write a new musical, Jim Bob Duggar Superstar. It'd be a rock musical, heavy on backbeats, about a regular man whose fame went to his head and who was finally revealed as someone who had never heard any messages from God at all. I admit that Derick's current level of theatrical prowess makes this seem unlikely.

Wonder who she's so anxious to see damned. Probably us.

Yeah, I do get that. It is worrisome. I see two problems with it, though. One is that I'm afraid that a lot of young girls (among others) think that the continuance of show means that the endless-kids-without-parental-outside-the-home-jobs is feasible. And it's not! So I'd rather that message didn't get put out. And the other -- way more important one, to me -- was for the Duggar kids' and grandkids' own sake. Because that show was going to end eventually. Because every show does. And it was going to end without much or any warning. Because every show does. And, to me, the sooner it ended, the more time most of these kids have to figure out a more reasonable way to live before they start churning out multiple Duggar copies. To me, it's better Jessa and Ben, for example, find out that they need an alternative life plan now, when they only have one kid on the way, rather than three years from now when they have two crawling around and one imminent. The longer it took, the harder it's going to be for everybody to adjust, in my opinion. Plus, to me, being on reality tv is just really really harmful for kids' overall view of themselves and of life. So the sooner they get those younger kids off tv the better. I frankly think that the delusions of tv are far more dangerous than anything that's going to happen to them just because Michelle and Jim Bob aren't on the tube any more. I realize that not everybody thinks that! But the tv agenda just added to the emotional abuse, in my opinion, and I think emotional abuse and manipulation and being encouraged to have your whole life be false is about the worst thing that can happen to a kid, really. MMV, of course!

Especially when 18 other young families will try to live off it, too. Can't imagine why all the Duggars wouldn't be deeply depressed from contemplating this potential future, which seems terrifyingly likely, given how things have proceeded with them so far.

I guess reporter Amber Belus doesn't even read her own magazine. And neither does the online editor, if they have such a person. Man, the 24-hour news cycle is tragic and embarrassing.

He's so uninformed that I don't think I've ever seen him make it past the first opposing statements in any argument he's gotten into. You'd think that the desire to win a debate somewhere sometime would motivate him to study up past the opening thesis statement of the people he parrots, so he could make at least one or two more relevant responses. But, nope. Next time out he's just as uninformed as ever, including about what people say on his side of an issue. He's apparently got the Duggar work ethic down pat. Wonder how he does at scrubbing toilets.

Glad to see that Ben's made a real effort to find out what his opponents actually think before he slams them as the Devil's coworkers. I can see why he so happily signed up to be a semi-Duggar. He's such a follower, wants to be part of a movement, is crazy about having some cause to jump onto and spout self-righteous crap about. But he's clearly way too lazy and possibly stupid to really think anything through for himself. He's so eager to be the pontificating big man but he's never had an original thought in his life. I'd overlook his constant empty parroting of what his elders preach if he were 13 or so. But he's almost 20, and if you're not questioning anything by that age there's a high likelihood you're among the hopelessly brain-dead cases, I would bet. When it comes to ignorance, self-righteousness and smugness, at least, he and Jessa look like a great match. This is the kind of thing that I'm actually glad they're getting some continued media attention for. Of course, with over 40 percent of Americans rejecting evolution -- generally for reasons quite similar to those of whoever taught this garbage to Ben, I'm guessing -- he could turn out to be a galvanizing force for a new American anti-evolution revolution, I suppose. If enough young kids find him hot enough. I can just see all those 14-year-old girls refusing to attend biology classes because hot Ben has told them that they're both the work of the devil and racist to boot. ... (Of course, I gather that the majority of today's high-school biology classes already make only the lightest mentions of evolution.)

Yeah, you're right. I've seen it too. Insecurity seems to be a good explanation. And we've all got some control freak in us, to emerge if conditions are right, I guess. Insecurity provides the conditions.

I'd like to like this a thousand times.

Boy, this is so true. And so crazy that their parents actually decree that they shouldn't hear any information or ideas. Except for evil dictators who insist on manipulating and oppressing people to conserve their own power, who decrees that for young people in the modern world? Most people want to share favorite books and music and such with their kids and then hope their kids go on to experience far more than they did. "I hear babies cry, I watch them grow. They'll learn much more than I'll ever know. And I think to myself, What a wonderful world!" But Jim Bob would think "What a terrible world!" Just odd. And hard to imagine that it all doesn't stem from some kind of fear.

This is so gorgeously put. And I'm sure you're right about it. Darwin actually backs you up, I think. (By the way, do we say "Nike!" when something like a Darwinian concept appears, or do we shout out a different warning, like "Dawkins!" or "Ham!"?) Seems to make sense that the women who have this feeling most strongly would -- through the ages -- have been more likely to have more children (other things being equal), so this trait would tend to survive and prosper. Anyway, I'm sure you're right. But then later other feelings also play into our family-planning decisions-- Like, Crap, how are we going to afford to build an extra bedroom? I really wanted to start college funds for all the kids! Just once, I'd like to sleep in till 8 o'clock on the weekends! and My god, those baby Nike shoes are expensive! I think you're right on the money with Michelle, too. Since she doesn't seem to get much joy or satisfaction out of kids after they've popped out, this would be where her kid-joy comes from, exclusively. Now that I've typed that, I sure hope it isn't true, since that would be extremely sad. Maybe it is, though. She certainly does seem to be a very disengaged mother.

I completely agree with you that they're not treating the Central American people with more condescension than they treat folks in the U.S. However, when you go into places that the States and others in the rich white world have routinely treated high-handedly and with condescension, then I think you have a special duty not to do so lest you increase the evil that people have already experienced. Ethical treatment in such cases demands absolutely full respect, in my opinion. Frankly, I think that would be especially clear to Christians, since Christ said the equivalent of it numerous times, seems to me. And I do agree that these ignoramuses don't know any better and, in that sense, their hearts -- currently -- are in the right place. But Derick's a college-educated man who is pretty well steeped in missionary work, and Jill's now an adult woman who aspires to know all about Christian morals. So I think it's time they gave some thought to what's actually required and stop the selfish and pharisaical crap. I'm not a Christian, but even I know that, with spirit, you reach out to other people and their interests, not give half-assed "art" performances that are all about what you're comfortable with -- and proud of, apparently, although I can't imagine how -- from your own insular experience. Since the guy who runs these "missions" has refused to learn any better, though, and obviously does nothing but pander to the prejudices of the people who pay him for mission-cations, unfortunately they're not going to learn this from him. I'm not writing off their ability to figure this out, but they're now adults claiming the right to tell the world how to live, so they'd better start figuring. In a way, I'd give Jill a better chance of having this dawn on her than Derick. I do think that Jill's exhibited some empathy here and there, at least for her little siblings, for example, even though the Duggars as a group are incredibly empathy-challenged. Given the cat incident, I don't have a lot of faith in Derick having any empathy at all. And empathy is required. I hope Jill gets to really know some local people during this stay, because I think maybe that could shake loose some of the cold-ass Duggar crap inside her and let in a different kind of light. At this point, it doesn't look very likely, though, since she seems to be relegated to taking care of Izzy while Mr. Crush-the-Cat does half-assed interpretive dance to help a bunch of U.S. college students build their no doubt already super-inflated egos. Doesn't anybody in the "missionary" crowd see the bored and baffled looks of the local people who've been assigned to watch this nonsense? If they did, I don't see how they could imagine that they're showing care or communicating anything to anyone. I wonder, too. I keep hoping that, if she has enough little assumption-jarring experiences like this, she can experience at least a bit of change and see that there's more to the world than what her idiot parents have told her.

Making you laugh may be the highest achievement of this performance.