Churchhoney

I'll go a step back from that. I wish the kids wanted to sue Jim Bob. To me, that would be a very positive development, whether they actually could sue him or not. But I expect the emotional, spiritual and intellectual abuse and manipulation are so strong in that household that they can't even formulate the thought -- We oughta sue Pops! .... or at least that most can't formulate the thought and the one or two who can feel too constrained by the whole situation ever to say it out loud.

I hear ya.

All we actually know, though, is that Michelle was in New York. And the only evidence we have of who is and isn't on the show is the press release, which explicitly mentioned Jill and Jessa only. There's zero actual evidence that Michelle will be on the show and a bit of evidence that she won't. There are plenty of other reasons she may have wanted to be in New York -- notably, that she doesn't trust any of her kids and that she loves vacations, including in the evil Big Apple. I think the evidence is very much on the side of her not being on the show. When it comes to showcasing a religious approach to this -- Well, their doing it stems from what happens from the Duggars. And they're having the Duggar daughters on, presumably at least in part to get some Duggar fans to watch. So it makes perfect sense to me that they would talk about responsible Christian responses and therapy, since that's the only approach that would actually resonate at all with most of those fans. If they have any intention of reaching out to those folks, then that seems like a reasonable thing to do. Their overall effort will involve some ongoing stuff, online stuff and not just this special. RAINN is involved in those, so they're not going to look at Christian programs only.

Maybe they'll blur all their countenances. You know, treat them as if they were knees. Or they could use a blue dot. There's a precedent.

Well, Erin Merryn spoke with the Duggars and told them that they handled it all wrong. So since she's involved with Darkness to Light it seems that they won't exactly embrace the Duggar slant on things. I assume that Jill and Jessa wanted to be involved because they see it as a step toward getting their own show. And I expect that both TLC and Erin Merryn will basically decline to mention the myriad problems with the way the Duggars, including J and J, have approached and are approaching the thing. But I do think there's some hope that the Duggs will just put in a very brief appearance and say little, while the show will focus on putting out proper messages. I expect they'll lie about the Duggs by omission, but only by omission -- I doubt they'll actually air any Duggar "advice" about how to handle it. Although Michelle's appearance in NYC worries me. She might purpose to kind of lie on tv about what their approach has been. And then later, when she's on her own, she might purpose to go around speaking about it, freelance, advocating the Duggar way far and wide. Being on the show could set her up nicely to be able to do that. Hope they barred the door. But what I pick up from the Erin Merryn quotes is that she certainly doesn't agree with their approach to the molestation, but she probably doesn't realize how misguided, stupid, ignorant and often downright evil JB and M actually are. So I can imagine her being let on to the show at the last minute, since they see her as a well meaning Christian mom. (certainly hope they didn't do this) http://www.today.com/popculture/sexual-abuse-survivor-spoke-duggars-wake-molestation-allegations-t24681 'According to sexual abuse survivor and prevention advocate Erin Merryn, in 2014, the Duggars asked her to speak to their children about sexual abuse — though they failed to tell her about the incidents that occurred in their own home. 'She's since remained in touch with the family, and just this week informed them of her opinion on the revelations. '"I said, 'I believe that you did not handle this the proper way. That you should have gone to the authorities immediately, and that Josh should have never been allowed to live in that home again,'" Merryn recalled while speaking to NBC News in a spot that aired on TODAY Friday.' http://www.d2l.org/site/c.4dICIJOkGcISE/b.9298111/k.E4C/D2L_Announces_Partnership_with_TLC.htm

In the 21st century what, exactly, constitutes a rare photo? One that's been seen on fewer than a million electronic devices?

AudreyHorne wrote: "Of pizza and wifely submission (one of my personal favorites. Teri's barely concealed hatred of Steve and her lot in life as a person with two X chromosomes is practically oozing through my screen):" http://articles.titus2.com/2000/04/ Barely concealed hatred and the horrible irony that she's the wife of one of the world's biggest control freaks -- yet she's the one who has to struggle not to be controlling. Steve, meanwhile, may well pray to be more successful at controlling. (To no avail, of course, since that's likely not possible under the laws of physics.) Thanks for the links!

I guess they only see what they want to see. And they don't want to see very much -- and only what's flattering to Duggars. Surely there must be one kid in there somewhere who looks at things differently. Sure hasn't been much of a sign of one, though.

I dunno. Whenever I think of Shriners, I do think of clowns.

You and me both. This is a real headscratcher.

That looks like the State Island Ferry terminal all right. Or, as Jessa might call it, The Terminal of the Damned. (sorry, NYC. I mean that as a compliment. ha)

Wonder if she sort of unconsciously feels trapped and that's why she seems so eager to envision other people trapped. Sad way to feel for a newlywed expecting her first baby. Those are such rays of joy in your life, or ought to be, that it's depressing to see them side by side with so much of what looks like bitterness. Ironically, she has the keys to change her situation, seems to me. But she won't use them apparently. I guess all that leaves her is wishing others to be trapped, too. I'm sure she'd tell me that she's trying to save nonbelievers from our horrible fate, but when she posts that ugly stuff over and over it seems a lot like bitterness. It's hard to imagine a happy person posting that way. Makes me sad for her.

Maybe, with all that's happened, some of the Duggarlings will accidentally drink some alcohol. So the NSA can have even more data to collect? Or to add spice to your Facebook and Twitter postings.

Yes, there's that. We should give her the benefit of the doubt, then, I guess. .... She didn't go any farther in the consumables direction than olive oil, that I noticed it. She's a higher class of grifter, no doubt. Count your blessings that you didn't have to pay for this wedding, TLC. Mr. Pickle would have demanded an open bar. .... Now that I think of it, though, this marriage really could have been Amy's ticket to TLC fame, if Josh hadn't happened. The history of DUIs and the "I never thought about marrying him" pre-wedding announcement portend a lot of drama that they would have really liked to film.

And all the wastebaskets. Always have one handy.

Wow, I really needed those laughs today. Comments section: highly recommended.

I'm amazed that one of the women in this position hasn't done something explosive already. It's so hard to account for all of the adult kids in these families just going along with so many varieties of absolute nonsense, which you'd think they'd have to recognize as time goes on.

Speaking of the brotherhood of men who believe that being a SAHW is woman's entire destiny but somehow can't seem to marry off their daughters, the Botkin sisters -- who used to be "visionary [sAH] daughters" but now seem to be merely "the Botkins" -- have just revamped their horrifying blog, and started blogging again. http://botkinsisters.com/ That one requires a lot of headshaking, too. I'm really waiting for all these 20-something and 30-something SAHDs to start some kind of revolutionary army at some point. Hard to see why they aren't very very angry about the various bills of goods they've all been sold.

Meanwhile, Christianity Today has picked up the InTouch you-mean-she-isn't-an-unpaid-intern? sloppy-rehashing story and actually kind of embroidered on it. http://www.christianitydaily.com/articles/5408/20150812/19-kids-counting-matriarch-michelle-duggar-suffers-mental-breakdown-cancellation.htm Don't know who the heck they are, but the pub name is interesting. Guess they don't follow the Duggars any more closely than the mistaken InTouch night-desk-so-I-don't-give-a-crap online-writer woman. Which is also interesting. I'd think that writers for something called Christianity Today -- which appears to be kind of conservative-Christian oriented --- would be even more aware than InTouch reporters that there are no longer any diaper-wearers (with the possible or likely exceptions of Michelle and Jim-Bob) among the TTH inhabitants. That must be a big disappointment to JB. (Not the diaper thing. The "we don't really know what you're doing" thing.)

Well, as another ATI stalwart has apparently said, "Since God made me to be a doormat, I will be the best doormat I can be.” I expect that's some of it at least. Like a competition among monks to see who can wear the most horrible hairshirt for longest, maybe? And Michelle has proven pretty hard to beat in the baby-ejecting category. See here for ATI's messages to young women: https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/08/10/created-to-be-his-doormat-wende-benners-story/

Well, I'll say that shiny, tight chartreuse is not really what I would have expected of them. It looks, to my surprise, kinda modern. Not a word I'd associate with the Maxwells. The only real problem I have with them is that there's too much shiny tight chartreuse. But then that's the problem with virtually all bridesmaid's dresses. At least they didn't have 26 bridesmaids.

That seems right to me. I'm still not convinced that he has the money to get the training, even if he wanted to. And I'm sure that JB wouldn't pay for it. But I agree that he probably has little motivation to do it anyway. If he actually cared about having his own life or standing on his own, we'd probably have seen some signs of it now. As it is, he's probably just another lazy Duggar dumb-ass, who's content to enjoy the perks of Duggardom, even if it means having their parents micromanage as much of their lives as they can get their hands on, for the rest of their lives. It's his hobbies of flying and policing and towing that have given us a little hope that maybe he wanted something else for himself, but he probably doesn't.

Well, I'm still intrigued by why you think that John David has tens of thousands in disposable income to pay for the training. And I'm not actually convinced that he does! -- I find it hard to believe that Jim Bob would put any real estate, commercial or otherwise, into a legal state that would allow a kid to sell it for his or her own purposes, for example.... But if he does, then the whole thing becomes even more depressing. To have that many kids who are already young adults and yet have none with the guts to try to make it on their own, even one that actually has the means, is horrifying. I guess that marriage is the only potential way out. It's worked, at least temporarily, for Jill. If JD got a wife, maybe she'd kick him into gear. Of course, if she were an ATI wife, she wouldn't be allowed to.

Yeah, I agree. I think that's exactly what he did. He isn't as smart as he thinks he is..... On the other hand, maybe he did see it coming. It's possible that all he ever wanted was to create a group of people who'd send him bucks throughout his lifetime -- and then who cares what happens after? It's not like he has any kids that he'd want to reap the benefits of his businesses. A couple of generations of suckers with a few dollars to spend was all he needed to set him up for life. I by no means think that all the people who found cults actually believe in the cults that they've founded.

Seems likely that Jana's even taught stuff in this vein at Journey to the Heart. Given how these ideas seem to permeate that whole group, I think it'd be quite unsurprising to find that she was the main impediment to her own marriage prospects. At least at the TTH, Boob has other slaves and a chief doormat and plenty of other places to direct his attention. If she married one of these guys, she'd be the primary and for a time the only doormat of somebody whose intentions and character she would barely know and who could be presumed to buy in to this crap completely. Even though I guess it's taken as a sign of the Duggars' non-royalty status, Jessa and Jill are lucky that they got husbands from outside of ATI, I'd say.