ahrtee

Maybe she's trying to look like she ripped out of them, like the Hulk. So it's not her fault. 😀

If that were true, Supernatural would have been a *very* short show. 😁

I don't know if he was "done" with them, but he did have a 5-year plan which had a definite ending. The renewal (and therefore change in the ending) was handed over to others.

It's not clear to me, so I can't call it proof. We'll just have to agree to disagree. 😊

When I was a kid I had nightmares for years about dinosaurs and volcanoes. It wasn't till I was in my 20s and saw the movie Fantasia that I realized where the nightmares came from. Apparently my parents took me to see it when I was about 2 or 3. They didn't even know I remembered it, much less that it affected me.

I can't tell ages of kids from pictures (except that the view we had of Sam in Bad Boys was *clearly* not a 12-year-old. ☺️) So I don't think they're that concerned with the way the kids look. About the other things: Henry said John saw the scary movie in the drive-in. I remember my parents taking my sister and me to drive ins in our pajamas, so that we could run around in the playground (with other kids in pajamas) and watch the cartoons before the main show and then go to sleep in the back seat before the feature started. Age doesn't matter then. But I have to believe that the 1954 on John's headstone in WIAWSNB is accurate. It may have been a construct of the djinn, but he got his information from Dean's memories, and surely Dean knew his dad's birthday. Also 1954 fits better with the rest of this story (aside from it being accepted in the Supernatural Wiki). That means that John was 18 or 19 in the pilot here, which fits with him joining the military before he was legal (if he was gone 2 years by 1972, and was 8 in 1958, he would have been 20 when he joined and 22 by the time of the pilot.)

I like logic in stories (especially police shows). I can ignore a few WTF moments if they're necessary for the plot, but when they outnumber the reasonable ones they take me out of the story. And it could be so easy to fix. 😩

I have a lot of mixed feelings about this show. I like the way they're blending the crime of the week with the main/Sunny story (I didn't really like what I saw of season 1 and think this works better.) About the characters: I pretty much like them all, except for Jenny, who annoys me. Maybe it's just me, but I want law enforcement to be less emotional, even though she does pull herself together when faced with an emergency. (Maybe it's just her face: she always seems ready to cry?) But my main issue is that I really want the writers to pay a little more attention to reality and less to how things work as Drama. I don't need a police procedural, but if the characters are supposed to be so smart, why do they do such stupid things? (And I'm not even counting Cassie's simpering looks at Cormac and everyone's perfect makeup, tight clothing and shoes). Why did Cassie have to go out at night to look for the carved heart (and how could she find it so easily in the dark?) Why, so that she could find the burning truck, of course. And why did Buck choose that spot to park and burn it? (It apparently wasn't there before, or someone would have noticed it while wandering in search of the backpacker.) Couldn't he have pushed it off a cliff so that it looked like an accident? Why wasn't the backpacker eaten by various animals by the time they found him? They did say the vultures did a job on him, but he seemed remarkably intact to me. Besides, I thought Walt buried him? And if he was dug up, wouldn't the coroner's office have found some hints of that? (I suppose that will turn up later so Cassie can prove that it wasn't an accident.) But the thing that really bothered me this time was the bank. There were just so many things wrong here, but the one I couldn't get past was the safe-deposit box scene. Yes, it makes a lovely dramatic scene to see them flinging open boxes to see whatever's inside (not to mention the enormous stack of cash in one)--but in 3 different banks in two different states, I've never seen any that has a "master key" to open all the boxes. That hardly makes them secure, does it? And if your mom cut you out of her will/took away your inheritance, would breaking into her safe deposit box really get it back? Unless she has a large stash of jewelry in there, and that was never mentioned. It was all to have a mommy-issues sledgehammer moment. *sigh* So much potential for good stories, and such a stupid way to go about it. It has to be deliberate, which means that the writers don't think the audience will notice or care. And maybe they're right. *double sigh* There are still a lot of dangling ends so I'll keep watching, because the ideas are good, and usually the resolution is satisfying. It's only the bits in between that make me cringe.

Both John and Dean have self-worth issues, but coming from different places. John has--reasonable--doubts about his abilities, because he's suddenly been thrust into a situation that's completely foreign to him. He's used to being in control of himself (at least, knowing what needs to be done) and all of a sudden, he's the only one in the group that doesn't know what the hell is going on/what to do. It's unsettling, but it's something that will go away over time as he gets more knowledgeable about monsters and hunting. He does have the ability to adapt and learn quickly. He seems to make friends easily and is obviously very likeable. Dean never had any doubts about his hunting skills and abilities. His insecurity comes from interpersonal relationships: the feeling/knowledge that "everyone leaves him" which to the insecure person means that there's something inherently wrong/unlikeable about him. It's why he clings on to family, because they're *supposed* to love you/stick with you, no matter what, and why he's so destroyed when they don't. John most likely has abandonment issues from Henry's disappearance; but he did have Millie and a stable life and, I assume, friends. I'd guess he joined the military to prove to himself that Henry *would have* been proud of him if he'd stuck around, and now he's feeling lost and stupid in his new situation. (Since he joined the military at 17 or so, do we assume he also didn't finish high school? Do you think that's where Dean decided it was OK to get his GED?) John did need to be made more likeable/understandable in order to be accepted by SPN viewers, though not necessarily the new viewers without the SPN baggage. I do think, however, if done properly, it's a perfect way to show how he went from this kinder, gentler John to the drill sergeant he was in the Mothership. A journey, not the flip of a switch just from Mary's death, which will give him more depth. Mary doesn't really have the need to show any change. Season 12-14 Mary was just an older, stronger version of younger hunter Mary, though I would really like seeing more depth to her character. Maybe when she's not being driven by worry over Samuel we'll be able to see someone more relatable.

My main comment is that I had a hard time getting past Mary in her white nightgown. I also find her eyebrows very distracting (as someone who, in 1972, was told I had eyebrows "like Groucho Marx." And not in an admiring way.) 😀

It wasn't for three years. I always wondered what happened in that time. Even before it was explained in Keep Calm and Carry On, it meant that they were engaged in 1973, but Dean wasn't born till 1979, and Sam was born just in time for the 10-year time limit. I suppose Azazel had something to do with that. DEAN: Dad told me. March 23, 1972, you walked out of a movie theater – Slaughterhouse-Five. You loved it, and you bumped into a big Marine and you knocked him flat on his ass. You were embarrassed, and he laughed it off, said you could make it up to him with a cup of coffee. So, you went to, uh, Mulroney's and you talked and he was cute and he knew the words to every Zeppelin song, so when he asked you for your number, you gave it to him, even though you knew your dad would be pissed. That was the night that – that you met – MARY: John Winchester. DEAN: August 19, 1975, you were married... in Reno. Your idea. A few years later, I came along, then Sammy. So there are a few minor differences but nothing major. The Song Remains the Same takes place in 1978, and Michael mind-wipes them in that episode. They might make that fit in with the "new" canon.

Before ya'll start getting too worked up about Dean's role here, remember that, as VO, he's not actually a part of the story. He's the observer, narrating for the viewers, not a participant in the search for answers. So it may be interesting to find out why he's started his "mission" (and yes, it would be fun to see guest shots from Rowena or Cas or whoever to show how he found out about the problem) I don't expect him to be involved in the action. Sorry. I'd love to have Dean back. Maybe if the show gets renewed and he doesn't continue with Big Sky, Jensen might take a more active part in the Winchesters, but I'd say not this year.

I think I saw the article and it was based on reviews and comments on Reddit. I have a feeling the vote was done quite a while ago. I still love Faith, because of the way it developed the characters when we still knew nothing much about them; in particular, it let us see the more serious, hidden inner side of Dean with all the snarkiness stripped away. But I do think Nightshifter was one of the best-written episodes of the series.

Ah, if only.....

I'm just nitpicking for the heck of it, because I'm a long-time proofreader and librarian, and it's ingrained. 😀 But if you notice the picture that someone posted in another thread showing John getting off the bus, you can see that *all* the trees were in full leaf, not just budding or starting to leaf out. And all the extras in the background were wearing lightweight clothing. So it may have been warm enough during the day to wear light jackets, but the trees know better. Still, I enjoyed the show enough to give it a pass. 😃

Anyone remember the Shedim, back in season 13, who were supposedly the worst things ever created, that would destroy the world? Jack almost freed them and then shoved them back into the ground, and they were never mentioned again. Think they're related to the new Big Bad?

Actually, that would make a lot of sense--either a note Henry left with Dean in As Time Goes By in case he went time-traveling again (he did want John to know he hadn't really abandoned him, and tell him about the MoL), or by Dean meeting Henry in heaven. That would also give Dean something to do while waiting for Sam, instead of just driving around for 50 or so years alone.

They did. I was referring to the beginning of the ep, when John got off the bus and went to see his mom, with everyone coatless and enjoying the sunshine. Even at night, when they were fighting the demon, no warm clothing, no puddles, no leftover snow.😊

More like 17. He was gone two years, and he told Millie (as he took a drink) that he was "legal now" (though he wasn't officially of age when he enlisted.) Drinking age in Kansas in the early 1970s was 18 (yes, I looked it up 😊) Henry had disappeared 15 years earlier, when he was 4, which would make him 19. IIRC, according to their SPN tombstones, both John and Mary were born in 1954, so that fits. I have a different issue: if this was supposed to be March in Kansas, the weather sure was warm and sunny!

Well, we don't know what happened after Sam showed up. Maybe he just gave him a hug and said, "good to see you, Dean, I missed you," and then goes off to reunite with his blurry wife, telling Dean to come to dinner some time. And then Dean can go off to find his own friends and family, knowing Sam is safe and somewhere around. 😊

I wasn't expecting much, and I found (to my surprise) that I enjoyed it. Mary is still kind of iffy to me, but I'll wait and see if she tones down later. Maybe she's just annoying here because she's driven by worry about Samuel. I did have some trouble understanding Latika, but I don't know if the issue was her, my TV or my ears. I thought they did a pretty good job of working around the "tentpoles" of canon: Mary hating hunting and determined to quit, having hunting cousins, and John still being idealistic (as Mary pointed out in In the Beginning.) And yes, @trudysmom, they had John and Mary meet in the correct way: she was coming out of a theater showing Slaughterhouse 5 and knocked him on his ass. IIRC, John's journal started with "I went to Missouri and learned the truth." We always assumed that meant that was the first time he learned about the supernatural, but (I suppose) it could just as easily be the truth about what actually happened to Mary. If he believed that she really *had* quit hunting when they married (and since he didn't know about Mary's deal with Azazel) then it would come as a surprise that a demon was hunting her after all that time. (I suppose we'll find out if he knew that Mary was still hunting now and then when Dean was young.) And it makes more sense that he already knew/knew about Missouri than that he just picked a random psychic out of the phone book to ask (as Sam and Dean tried.) I also enjoyed watching for the easter eggs throughout. Who's spotted what? The main ones I noticed were "D. Nutter" as the name on the MoL folder and Dean's theme playing in the family scenes (as well as the nods to canon above). And I was confused but enjoyed the Raiders beginning, but I'm sure there are more. 😊 I also noticed that they avoided showing Jensen with his longer hair and old(er) face that was visible in the original scenes from the pilot, so they avoided (for now) the question of the timing. I'll wait and see what happens later.

Will they shave his head to match Mitch? After all, In The Beginning was just a few years later than this. (They could have cast Michael Rosenbaum instead...) 😀

OT, but I just have to vent about time zones: they NEVER mention Mountain Time, even in commercials on our local channels. Cable shows tend to be Eastern -2, broadcast are usually (but not always) the same as Central, and local shows (like PBS) are local time (but never the same times they're scheduled on national channels. I have to search them out.) I've been in Colorado for over 30 years and I still hate having to search every time. I think the Winchesters is on at 7 pm here, but I'll find out when when I can look at the day's local listings. I know, I should stick with on demand, but I only have Hulu and Amazon. Would it be so hard to say "Central/Mountain" the way they do "Eastern/Pacific"? //rant off// 😕

I always wonder about shows that change formats in mid-show. Those who've been enjoying the old format tend to get annoyed (because, after all, if they didn't like the way the show was going, they wouldn't still be watching) and those who were turned off originally probably won't come back. That's why bringing in someone with a built-in audience (like Jensen and Reba) is used so often to lure new viewers. Unfortunately, the ones who like the old way tend to be out of luck. And if the new viewers don't like it enough to stick around, the shows tend to get cancelled. I certainly heard enough complaints about season 1 of Dark Angel vs. season 2. They seemed like two completely different shows, and each one had its fans. It seems to be only a few days. The backpacker was still alive till last episode, and his family was still looking for him.

I've been staying out of most of the discussions because (full disclosure) I really am only watching for Jensen. I tried bingeing the first season to see the framework of the show, and frankly, I wasn't too thrilled, and gave up halfway through. Very melodramatic, and (to me) very slow moving. I watched the final ep of season 2 to know where things were heading, and honestly I didn't think I missed anything by skipping season 2. I do realize that, for those who were invested in the first two seasons and its style, that the new season is a pretty big change. But having said that, I'm enjoying this season more, mostly because it *is* so much faster paced and with so many varying storylines and different characters. There are still way too many annoying characters/character moments (Really? High heels on a police officer/anyone out on trails? Cringeworthy policing moments, and some over-the-top acting.) I actually think Jensen is bringing some well-needed toning down of OTT characters and situations. And while I specifically enjoy seeing a lighter, not weighed-down-by-the-weight-of-the-world Jensen (especially after the last ... oh, 10 seasons or so of Supernatural) I think he's giving enough nuance to show that there's something serious--maybe dark--underneath that does come out unexpectedly. You can underestimate Beau because he seems so casual but he's shown that he sees everything that's going on and is ready to switch to Sheriff/in charge mode when needed. And to those wondering what he's getting out of appearing in the show--consider it as "graduating" from the CW into the majors. No matter how good he was on the CW shows, he wasn't getting any serious recognition. Hopefully working on more mainstream networks (especially in The Boys) will get him noticed, and if the characters he plays are so varied, TPTB will recognize his versatility. JMO, of course.