takalotti

Me starting this episode: Oh! It’s called “Kiss”! So Nick and Charlie are gonna kiss, yay! Me right after Imogen finagled an “invite” to the party out of Nick and then the title card says “3. Kiss”: Oh crap. Are Nick and Imogen gonna kiss and Charlie’s gonna see/hear about it? Noooo! Me when Ben bumped into Charlie at the party: Oh nooooo! Charlie’s gonna let Ben kiss him again because he thinks Nick and Tara are hitting it off! Thank goodness none of that was how it played out!!! The first time I watched the scene where they were changing in the locker room, I assumed the awkwardness was because of the gossiping that was going on about Nick and Tara/Imogen. Like Charlie was awkward because he didn’t want to show he was jealous/bummed, and Nick didn’t want Charlie to believe he was into Tara/Imogen but didn’t know how to make that happen without it being obvious it was REALLY IMPORTANT to him that Charlie didn’t believe those guys. I didn’t even consider it was because they were changing in front of each other while having a crush on each other 😂 This isn’t important, but was rugby practice before classes started? Or do they have form/homeroom at the beginning AND end of the day? Or was Rugby at the end of the day and Nick invited Charlie the next morning? I swear my lack of understanding about “form” is messing with me. I think it’s most likely that Harry mentioned it to Nick on not a Friday because Harry referred to it as “This Saturday.” The changing room scene was just at some point after that (maybe the same day, maybe not) but not Friday (not just because form is most likely only in the morning, but again, Harry refers to “Saturday night” instead of “tomorrow night”). And then Nick invited Charlie on Friday morning because when Charlie tells his friends, Tao says “Isn’t that tomorrow?” And you know Charlie didn’t wait more than a day to tell them. I’m surprised he didn’t text them right after form on Friday! Or tell Tao and Isaac in person. And about that invite, Nick. Tacking on the “with me?” 🥰 I mentioned this in another Heartstopper space, but I cannot reconcile how much these kids looked for each other without ever even TRYING to find them by text. Like, since Nick ask Charlie to go to the party “with me” and yet didn’t actually have his mom pick them both up or something, then I’d expect Nick to be texting “I’m here! Let me know when you arrive!” But even if not, when Charlie arrived, to a rather intimidating party due to the popularity of the people there, I’d expect him to be like “just got here, where are you?” so that he wouldn’t have to wander alone for long. And then when they were actively looking for each other, I’d expect them to text “where did you go?” At the very least, I’d expect them to at least CONSIDER these texts and maybe not send them because they realized how clingy that could seem. And to be clear, this isn’t a criticism of how it played out. This commentary says more about me than it does about the show. Obviously my way would have been boring. The way it actually played out more fun and dramatic. This is why I don’t write/direct TV shows 🤣 Oh Imogen. I don’t dislike her. I can see that really her only fault is that she’s a silly girl. “I asked a boy to invite me and after I implied he was insulting me he invited me, he must like me!” “I asked a boy if he liked my dress and he said yeah and then immediately started scanning the rest of the room, he must like me!” (based on the way she turned to her friends and basically squeed). “I told a boy I really liked him and he didn’t outright reject me, he must like me! Squee!” I think it was so cute how Elle was going to follow Mrs. Xu into the kitchen before Tao turned her. We didn’t see Elle’s history leading up to her changing schools, but I imagine that some friends’ parents acted awkwardly around her. So it’s completely understandable if she wants to hang around a little longer when a grown up is gushing at her and not just indifferently greeting her. I like how Elle just tells Tao the things he’s saying are dramatic. And not just once. Too often it seems like it’s things girls say that get called “dramatic” and that tendency sets girls up for being dismissed more often than boys. Boys can be dramatic, too. I really applaud Nick for saying “That’s homophobic, Harry.” Not only would it have been too easy to get distracted by feeling the need to defend himself or cover his tracks, but he also didn’t say “You’re homophobic” or “You’re being homophobic.” Those two statements would automatically set someone on the defensive. But just calling out what was said as being homophobic, leaving out the intent, setting aside the speaker, is much more effective. I liked how subtle Elle and Tao’s conversation about change being a good thing was. Yes, she’s trans. They both know it. It’s part of who she is, but that’s not ALL she is so it’s not like she needed to drop an anvil on the conversation to say “when you complain about how you want things the way they used to be it sounds like you wish *I* were still the way I used to be.” “I’m sorry about what happened” does not count as an apology AT ALL, Ben 🙄 That wording avoids all responsibility and it’s shitty. Here’s the formula for a proper apology: I’m sorry that I … It was wrong because … Next time I will … Tao? All those things you asked Elle to promise? You just described something like a soulmate relationship, not a friendship 🤣 Do you really expect someone to enter a committed romantic relationship and still prioritize their friendship with you OVER that? Man. Nick’s face when Tara and Darcy kiss. It’s not just “I’m happy for them.” It’s also “I want that, too.” 🥰 Followed by “I REALLY need to find Charlie.” Pinky touching/linking is a *thing* for me. I totally get the flutters that can induce 🥰🥰🥰 Man. When Nick bolted when Harry ruined the moment I internally wailed “NOOOOO! You KNOW how Ben treated him! You saw it first hand and he told you their history. And you’re gonna run away like you’re ashamed the same way Ben did? NOOOOO! At least say ‘Don’t leave, I’ll be back as soon as I can. It’s just - you know how Harry is. He’d - he’d ruin this.’” But I get it. I really do. It’s just so hard not to be frustrated! Especially when Charlie basically looks like “here I am again, someone’s dirty little secret” after Nick leaves. Gah! And again, jerks who don’t know how to apologize. “It was just a joke” doesn’t count. And Nick going along with “Guess I was just in a mood” because he cared about getting back to Charlie ASAP more than he cared about being right. Mr. Spring is a good dad. It must be so hard to know that your kid has a target on his back, that bullies have aimed at that target already, but you can’t shelter him forever. You have to let him go to rich asshole parties even if you’re scared something bad will happen to him. All you can really do is what Mr. Spring did: Remind him to call if he needs you, and be there for him when he needs you. “It’s okay. I’ve got you. Everything’s gonna be okay.” I’m sobbing, more because of all the love pouring out of Mr. Spring than because of Charlie’s sadness. Charlie’s pillow has rainbow stripes on them 🥰🏳️‍🌈 And he still snuggles with a stuffed dog!

Oh yes, I agree that I don’t think Nick and Charlie met before Ep 1. So I don’t think Nick witnessed Charlie being bullied in the past and was a direct bystander to that. I just meant was he a bystander to shitty comments people made behind Charlie’s back. I guess I have a hard time figuring out how much Nick knew OF Charlie before Ep 1. It’s not terribly important, I realize, but it’s something I like to think about. (These are questions I ask myself, not questions I’m expecting someone to answer definitively.)… For example, Ben is a year ahead of Charlie, but he still heard enough about Charlie to seek him out and start their meet ups. And in the big confrontation, Charlie says to Ben that “everyone” already knows he’s gay, which I do realize is mostly teenager hyperbole. So had Nick really never heard anything about Charlie in the past? Or had he heard people talking about a kid (named or unnamed) because someone found out he was gay? And were the comments in that “vision” ones he actually heard people say about some nebulous person, but now he knows Charlie and is realizing that it was shitty and is having retroactive guilt over not being an upstander? Or was he having a moment of empathy, imagining what Charlie must have gone through (and is still going through), not based on any actual memories? Had he participated such that some of the comments had actually been his own? (I don’t think so, even with the glimpses or references we have that Nick sort of fronts around his friends, I just can’t see him saying one of those comments himself even back when that was going on) Had he (consciously or subconsciously) felt like some of those comments applied to him, so whether he participated or just kept his head down, was it for self-preservation purposes? Or was it just standard-issue “I’m glad I’m not the target” situation that’s so typical of the teenage years? Basically most of these thoughts come from How Nick looked distressed in that “vision”. Was he distressed because part of him was feeling attacked even if he wasn’t the direct target? Or was he feeling guilty that he hadn’t done anything to stop it? Or was he distraught because he actually was part of it (again, behind Charlie’s back, not to his face)? Or was the vision simply Nick imagining what Charlie had gone through and wishing he had been there for his now friend (perhaps with a touch of doubt about whether or not he’d actually have stood up for him against the bullies)? No right or wrong interpretations. Just my musings. And along the same lines, it makes me wonder if Nick put together who Charlie was when they introduced themselves, or if the first time Nick heard about Charlie being gay was the locker room talk before Charlie’s first practice and he was was putting it together for the first time (“oh, that’s the kid people were talking about last year”) and was just fine with it. It didn’t sound like any of the voices Charlie overheard with Nick’s, so it didn’t sound like he was participating then, but again he also wasn’t telling anyone to cut it out. He was just ignoring it.

In the opener, Nick looks through Charlie’s Instagram and there’s a picture captioned with “I hate this place.” First, is that a picture of the halls leading to the changing rooms/gymnasium? It was rather nondescript so it was hard for me to tell. Second, I'm trying to figure out the significance of the imagined sequence in that hall. Is that basically Nick remembering how people talked about Charlie back when he was outed and how Nick was just a bystander to all the comments? Or had he also been participating in those comments back then? Either way, and now he feels guilty about it since Charlie is an actual person to him now as opposed to just a concept? Or was the sequence also a little bit about how Nick felt defensive about those comments on a subconscious level? I think it’s so cute how many references there are in their texts to staying up too late chatting 🥰 I get why Charlie feels sad about Tao’s “intel” about Nick liking Tara, but first of all, as Charlie said himself, bisexual people exist. And second, Charlie, don’t you think Nick would have mentioned Tara at some point since you’ve been hanging out non-stop? Nick’s two different reactions to almost holding Charlie’s hand were interesting. The first looked very panicky with the darting eyes, like he was thinking “what was that? Why did I even do that?” And the second was more confused than panicky, like “that was thrilling. Why was that thrilling?” Why does Nick move to his laptop for his searches? Does that lend itself to more privacy regarding his search history?

Since Nick already knew Ben, it would have been kind of awesome if that hallway encounter had gone like… C: Hey. B: What? C: … Just, hi. B: Why are you talking to me? I don’t even know you. (To Nick) All right, mate? N: Yeah, all right. So Ben, this is Charlie. He’s in my form. Charlie, this is Ben. We hang out sometimes. Now you know each other and it’s fine to say hi to each other, yeah? Okay, bye Ben.

Ohhhh, thank you for that clarification! Since it was used in a text to/from Ben, I thought it had the same romantic significance that I’m used to.

I’m from the US, so I’m not terribly familiar with British school structures and terms, but I’m guessing “form” is basically homeroom and not really a course with curriculum, right? Their form proctor/teacher was a little bit exposition heavy, but that’s okay. Visually, Nick reminds me a lot of Rupert Grint (Ron Weasley from Harry Potter). It’s not just the red hair and complexion. It’s also the crooked mouth/smile (such as the first time he says Hi to Charlie). I feel like Ben is a little bit too much of a trope, making him feel more like a caricature than a character. But maybe that’ll change. Just the ‘I don’t really care about how you enjoyed your break, I’m only saying the bare minimum to get a kiss’ interruption, the wiping of the mouth, the extreme rejection to Charlie’s “Hey” that wouldn’t be normal from someone who actually didn’t know Charlie, all seemed really over the top. I get what they’re trying to convey, but I just have a hard time believing that even someone in Ben’s situation would act this over the top Man, when Ben texted Charlie to meet up “just to talk” I literally called out “No! Don’t do it! Stick to your guns and say no!” But I was definitely cheering him on while he called Ben out. It’s not the “what” it’s the “how.” Charlie can handle keeping things on the DL while someone is figuring themselves out. But how Ben did it was incredibly demeaning. Ugh, and the “no one else is gonna love you” gaslighting/emotional abuse. I don’t really see how it could have seemed to Nick like something was up with Charlie while they were getting changed when it seemed to me like Charlie only got Ben’s message just as he was leaving the phys ed building. But I guess that’s unimportant. N: You say sorry a lot. C: (opens mouth) N: Don’t say it. C: I kind of want to say it. Me: 😂 And whoa. Pretty ballsy of Charlie to put an X at the end of that first text message, wasn’t it?

Hello! I’m by no means a teenager, which is probably the target audience for this show. But I am a mom of two elementary kids and from day one I’ve made a conscious effort to talk to/about my kids without assumptions regarding any of their preferences (sexual orientation, gender, if they want to get married, if they want kids). So my interest and perspective on shows like this are through that lens of gaining more insight so that I can be a better mom to them. Because when we know better, we do better. This show is already opening my eyes to blind spots I had and prompting me to have updated conversations with my kids. 🏳️‍🌈

Scene with the empty playground with equipment still moving... Hubs: So they’re the only people left? Me: They’re going to have to repopulate the earth! Hubs: But there’s no women left. Me: Life finds a way. 😂

Yeah, I remember one of her later ones explained how youtube changed something (she was more specific, but my memory is failing me) which meant it wasn't likely that she was going to keep making more. But I wasn't expecting the existing ones to get "removed." Bummer that they're private now. Thanks for the intel. I'll poke back in to see if anything new happens, but I'm guessing it's unlikely.

Have all the super-high-speed season recaps by that one you-tuber been removed? I can't find them when I do a search, and when I've looked through this thread (which is where I THINK I first saw them), I can't find them. But there are a lot of dead links that MIGHT have been them. She had red hair and dramatic eye-make up and every time she touched on something "Destiel" related she had a little cartoon of Destiel shippers whispering "Subtexxxxxxt!"

Thank you for your help!!

And I found it! Minute 26:00!

Oh! I found this clue. Still having trouble finding which video has the bit... https://images.app.goo.gl/kipPAJ9GGJJtgT8t9

Is this the appropriate place for me to ask for help finding a con video? It’s the one where something is on the tip of Jared’s finger but the camera’s can’t pick it up for the big screens. So Jensen takes a picture of it and zooms in to hold that up toward the camera. And it just looks like a penis 😂 Thanks in advance for any help!

Would Dean approve?

Wait a tick. Where IS Garth? Last I remember, he was in Baby’s trunk. I don’t remember them saying what they did with him while suped up on Michael’s concoction, or confirmation that his rabidness disappeared once Michael went poof such that he could be freed.

Ah, thank you for correcting me! 😁 Yeah, then I guess they gotta lock ’em up. I’d be curious if either of the guys have wondered “Okay, so hypothetically speaking, what if things play out the way Chuck wants? What if one of us kills the other? Does that mean that’s the end of his writing for this universe? Were all the monsters and demons and crap just dredged up over and over to mess with us, meaning once our story is done then there’s no reason to have monsters and demons and crap anymore and there can be peace on earth, free will for men (and women)? Are we in a catch 22 where we think we have to stick around to protect everyone, but actually if one of us ends the other then there’s nothing we have to protect people FROM?”

I’ve been gone from the forums here for a while because my passion for the show and analyzing it has dropped significantly. But this episode brought be back for one reason and no one has mentioned it so far (which is making me wonder if this has come up before and is old news). As far as I’ve ever known, Castiel’s nickname is Cas. Spelled just like that. C-A-S. Hubs and I always watch with closed captioning on, and the CC always spells his name Cass. I find this annoying but roll my eyes at it as an unimportant mistake. CC certainly isn’t perfect. But tonight, Sam picked up his phone and the contact was spelled Cass and two of his messages had “Cass” in them. Is that really how it’s supposed to have been spelled this entered time??? Has Cas’ name ever been written on the show before, either as Cas or Cass? So that’s why I came. But since I was here, I read all of the comments on this thread and just want to point out: 1) Of course they can kill God. They just have to kill Amara, too. The sun wasn’t going out because God was dying, it was going out because The Light was dying AND The Darkness was still in full force. It was the imbalance that threw off the universe. I agree with someone else who hopes they saved the gun blob. We’ve had angle blades, the first blade, archangel blades, so why not a God blade forged from the blob? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 2) For those wondering why the guys thought God was out of the picture and they were free, it’s because at the end of the season 14 finale he basically said “Fine, I’m out” right before he flitted away. Can someone remind me how to do spoiler tags? I haven’t figured it out here. (I’m on mobile if that matters)

Tonight, I was handing my spouse the kids’ cups over the breakfast bar behind me for refills. We were joking around about how it was like a diner. “Order up!” and whatnot. Spouse: You know what this makes me think of? Me: In Living Color? S: No, Gilmore Girls. That one where Lorelai- Me: Oh, “Adam and Eve on a raft and wreck ‘em!” S: Yeah, that one. Me: That was Dead Uncles and Vegetables. Jess’ first season, but I don’t remember which episode. S: (Fake disappointed sigh for my incomplete trivia knowledge)

Though I’m a Destiel(Realist) at my core, there’s been some chatter lately about Dean/Donna fanfic. I’m intrigued, so I was wondering if anyone had any recs. I’m fine with AU or canon (including adjacent or divergent) as long as the characterizations are done well. TIA!

But there wasn’t that question. That’s my issue. TFW2.0 a: Shouldn’t we take out his grace? TFW2.0 b: Hang on. We don’t know what that would do to Dean. Let’s just take a second while we have it and think.

Loved the episode for all the reasons stated already. So instead of repeating, I’m gonna go the other way and point out the two things about it that bothered me (besides the ridiculousness of Maggie being the leader that’s already been mentioned). 1) So, they get Michael in angel-cuffs. Why on earth wouldn’t they drain him of his grace to make him less of a threat? Plus they have a depowered nephil who could probably get his powers back and stop risking his soul if he slurped up said archangel grace. They didn’t even try or consider it! 2) The trauma/happiness debate regarding where best to lock up Dean. I disagree with the conclusion the show came to. For me, it’s not about where does Dean thrive or whatever. It’s about what would make Dean suspicious or not. While a messed up dream where Dean or his loved ones are being tortured/killed/endangered would make Dean fight, as Sam indicated, he would at least believe it was reality. He would fight the figments, but not Michael. But a contented dream, where Dean gets to settle down, shoot the shit with a friend, and easily takes out a couple vamps should have made Dean suspicious because he would question getting to have nice things, an easy life. Questioning the dream would cause him to fight the belief that this was reality, which would be fighting against Michael.

Now I AM going crazy. I don’t remember hearing that in the video.

They don’t need to. They could even react badly to Cas seeing things that way ("That wasn’t real, Cas! It was just a trick!") and lash out at each other. That would still be a more realistic version of grief to me based on their real dynamic, not the manufactured fatherly relationships. Maybe Jack's death and Cas' points lead them to think they may have been wrong and SHOULD buy into Jack bringing paradise. Or simply seeing Cas broken and believing in Jack so hard has them helping Cas with bringing Jack back for Cas' sake. I think it could still be a thing. No guarantees, but it seems like it had been put in there as a potential "how will this all end" clue. For all I know, Jack could be responsible for bringing paradise the same way Anakin is responsible for bringing balance to the Force.