takalotti

I’m a bit slow on the uptake. It wasn’t until the boys escaped the radiator and were out in the alley that I realized this one was being done Film Noir style. Then I thought "Ohhhh, so THAT’S why the scene where they met Margaret was so weird." Hold up. Let me get this straight. In The Bad Place, Kaia has abilities that could get them to AW. When she says she’s too scared to do it, Dean shows his gun and uses it to gesture her to get in the car. When she still says no, he puts the gun in her face and screams at her to get in the car. In this episode, Greenstreet has an ingredient to get them to the AW. When he says it would cost them more than they can afford, good day, Dean just shakes his head and walks away. Seriously? Okay, I know context is a little different. In TBP, Dean was reeling from JUST finding out that not only was he wrong about his mom being dead, but also seeing that she's being tortured, plus Kaia was the one missing piece they needed, not the first of four unobtained ingredients. I get it, that first burst of emotional reaction can make you do things you wouldn’t normally. But as far as he knows Mary is still being tortured. With all the time that’s gone by, shouldn’t he be just as desperate to force someone to give them what they need? He'll pull a gun on a teenaged girl (empty threat or no), but he won’t bumrush a rich dude? I’d buy it more if we’d seen his security detail. Would it have worked better if Sam had said "Great. MORE stealing" instead of "So, this is what we’ve come to?" It would have acknowledged that they have already "come to" thievery instead of acting like this was anything new. But it would have also allowed for Sam to crab about it, which leads to Dean's "not perfect" speech, which leads to the Father's "imperfection shouldn’t be an excuse" speech, so the writers can still keep whatever message they were going for. I don’t think that kind of crabbing would be a contradiction for Sam. He may have come to terms with the necessity of stealing and justified it to himself (theft for expenses is okay since being a hunter 100% of the time doesn’t allow for a job with a legit paycheck, or it’s a deal for something they need that is more important than the stealing in the big picture), but that doesn’t mean he likes it. The Father looks a bit like Jean Claude Van Damm to me. Spoiler for 13.17 Is it weird that Baby was parked so close to the building that I can’t imagine the passenger side could have been used? I guess the bench seat arrangement doesn’t make it weird? ??‍♀️ The exchanged looks after Scarpatti says "whacked" cracks me up every time. FWIW, I can buy Sam being skittish around the mob and stuff, even though he faces monsters and demons on a regular basis. I think Sam finds monsters predictable, but people not so much. Also, I can see how being in a situation with a monster that you have no qualms with killing would be less scary than being in a situation with a human, who they generally try not to kill even when they’re bad. All that said, it seemed like it was only done this episode to amplify Dean's ballsiness. I don’t know much about customs and baggage x-ray machines in this context, but is it surprising that the Father was able to come over with that much cash on him? I’m rather indifferent to the Film Noir style, but I did enjoy the twist upon twist upon twist. I didn’t mind that there weren’t any monsters, though this definitely wasn’t a "psycho humans can be scarier than monsters" situation. I liked that there weren’t any demons, or Ketch, or Lucifer. Wouldn’t have a problem with Cas being around, but I wasn’t put out that he was away. (@Katy M, I posted a couple ideas about Cas' trip in the cas thread) It does sound a lot like their past conversations ("It ends bloody" and the likes), especially Mary and Sam convincing themselves that teaming up with the BMoL was to end all monsters. But I still read this one a little differently. It didn’t sound like despair to me (When will it end) but hope (Maybe we COULD get rid of all monsters). And I feel like TBTP are trying to tie it to the 'Jack brings paradise on Earth' concept and/or how the show will end. I understand your reading. I’m also not religious in the sense that I don’t buy into any religion, but I’m not atheist either. FWIW, though, I didn’t find that scene depressing even with how God has been in the SPNverse. Yeah, God took off. But the priest specifically said it’s not that he believed there would be direct divine intervention, but rather that there are still good things and THAT'S where he finds God. On this show, God made us and made free will, so even if he’s on vacation with his sister, he's still an ingredient in all the things that happen even though he didn’t choose to make them happen. So he’s still here, even when he’s not here.

...you’re watching another tv show, a character who so far has only ever been called Sam gets shot, his friend shouts "Sammy!" and you immediately shout "Sammy!" in your best Dean-voice.

I haven’t watched the next episode yet, but I just wanted to say that not only did they not explain where the MoL got their archangel grace from (assuming that’s what it was and they didn’t have some other recipe that no one talked about because why would they ??), but they also didn’t happen to mention "Too bad they had exactly one batch left and Sandy used it. Womp womp."

Reader Discussion @Wayward Son, @trxr4kids (lurking) How (thanks to Gabriel) Dean and Castiel (accidentally) raised each other (and Sam) Ah, the ice cream promise! I forgot to specifically call that out in my original comments! Cas, you feel broken open because you just indirectly accepted an outcome you’ve been in denial about. I don’t get Sabriel either, but I accept it and don’t begrudge it. Mostly because I know there are plenty of fans who do begrudge and don’t accept Destiel and I wouldn’t want to be a hypocrite. Haha, I forgot about Ruby's scene! It really was so great. Canon... Ruby gets practically a whole season and a whole arc (and a real life husband to boot). This fic... Going back also reminded me of this fun bit of meta... ?

Hey oh!

Reading Discussion (planning) @Wayward Son, @catrox14, @trxr4kids (lurking), (and of course anyone else interested) Let’s see how long it takes you to post about the current fic, Happily Alone, and chapter 1 of Down to Agincourt first ? THEN we can see about peppering in short fics between chapters of DtA.

More than that, this episode couldn’t have happened before Scoobynatural because if Cas were still in Syria searching for the fruit from the tree of life, then Dean (and Ketch) wouldn’t be through the rift at the end of this one.

Reading Discussion (planning) Thanks for letting me know ? This will be after you come back to finish your thoughts on chapters 15-21 of the current fic, right? ? My toes are fine ? FWIW, I’d be down with reading at least Part 1 of the Down to Agincourt series with you and WS after Happily Alone. I only spoke up because I didn’t want to have to wait until after another epic to make my suggestion again. Think you’d want to join us for it? Just wondering if we should tag you in the discussions or not.

Reading Discussion (planning) @Wayward Son, @catrox14 Did my suggestion get missed, or is it being passively vetoed? If the latter, for future reference I’d rather just hear "not interested" than be left scratching my head.

Well, he’s not just hanging out there killing time, I’m sure. Cas has been even more anxious than the boys to get the ingredients. Is it possible he went there to see if anyone heard anything about Lucifer (because they need his grace)? Yes, but I’d say highly unlikely. The last time he met with anyone from Heaven was when he was looking for Jack, to see if they’d heard anything. They tried to take Cas by force since they wanted Jack and knew that Cas might be able to influence Jack. I think he’d only try talking to them again as a last resort.

...you read a click bait list, "The 22 Baby Names Parents Admit They Regret," see one of the names is Ruby, read the given explanation (If parent community sites are anything to go by, Ruby tops the list for baby name remorse. Reasons vary, but many insist they were coerced into the name and went on to regret it), and immediately think "Uh, no. It’s because they found out they named their baby after a demon who was working to release the devil."

I feel like Cas has been very squinty lately. Is that something Misha does more when he’s being Not!Cas, like Casmodeus in the previous episode or here as Casariah? I haven’t been keeping track, just feeling like there’s been a lot of times where Cas has no eyes. Did anyone catch what was in Donatello's notes before he presented a translation? Like what he covered up before Cas came in with food, or right before he shouted Eureka, which might have been the real translation? I couldn’t. Just wondering. Any fans of the Anne of Green Gables series here? As soon as Sam read off "the hearts of Gog and Magog" I immediately turned to Mr. Takalotti and said "Gog looks to the right and Magog to the left." He was very confused. I, too, very much appreciated that the Cas/Dean exchange of "Then I’ll do it" and "I'll go with you" was met with zero argument. Cas looked a little annoyed, but apparently remembered how well things went the last time he turned down Dean's "I’ll go with you" and thankfully kept his objections to himself. To be clear, I’m not at all saying Cas is incompetent or that Dean is required for a successful mission. Just be a team without bickering, for Pete’s sake. I didn’t consider the possibility that Mary could have been a Fake!Mary. I was too busy yelping "See? SEE?!" when she asked if Sam and Dean were in AW. I’m sure a viewer could interpret the scene any way she wanted, but this viewer took it as... J: Your sons, Sam and Dean, they sent me. M (sitting up in alarm): Are they here? (Oh no, they’re not here, are they?) J: No. M (settling down again with a relieved sigh): My god. (Oh thank god.) ...because ever since Mary got trapped in AW and the boys have talked about finding a way to save her, I've been irritated since I’ve been certain that she does NOT want them trying to get over there, risking being in the same universe as Lucifer. Speaking of, does she know that Lucifer jumped ship? Or does she think Michael still has him? Is it weird they didn’t talk about him? M: You should be 6 months old. J: I am! Me: ? Right before heading out for Gog and Magog, Dean asked "How are you holding up, Cas? [...] I just mean with, you know, everything you’ve been through..." It reminds me of when Cas said he was fine in the last episode and Dean asked "You sure about that?" I’m still struggling to understand what he’s getting at. And then both times, Cas brushes off the questions with some version of "I have to find Jack." It just feels like these conversations are supposed to mean something and I am totally missing what that is. Or am I wrong, and it’s really just exposition for anyone who doesn’t remember why Cas is part of getting to AW? Gog/Magog: Whichever warrior releases us must face us in combat. He- Magog/Gog: Or she. Me: ? I found it annoying that Cas was just lying there when Gog/Magog wound up to stab him AND after Dean stabbed Gog/Magog. Good thing Gog/Magog was kind enough to keep holding his sword and roll off to the side when he fell ? Reminded me of all the other "slow" moves from this season that feel so weird. Good thing Donatello decided to use a bottle against Sam instead of a Demon Tablet Spell. Michael: Zachariah, don’t fail me again. Me: Uh, you were the one who put Jack in the cell without a guard, dipshit. Looking around Bobby's colony, it didn’t look like women were that rare. What was up with the creeper Mary met when she first came over? I guess he was an outcast and most women stayed inside colony boundaries while mostly men went out on patrols so that’s why he hadn’t seen any women lately? ??‍♀️ I hope Cas and Dean kept those swords. It didn’t look like they had them when they came back to the bunker ? Then again, Dean wasn’t carrying the bag he left with, so here’s hoping the swords are in Baby's trunk ? Donatello: You’re supposed to be dead. Dean: Sorry about that. Donatello: (Nods, like he’s commiserating with Dean. 'I agree, it’s a damn shame.') Dean's little look of 'Wow, you are so far gone' after Donatello accuses them of wanting his powers was a nice little subtle moment. When Donatello shot his hand out at Dean, I actually thought Dean was faking. I didn’t have any idea WHY Dean might have been faking, but I think it was just because of the delay between Donatello's movement and Dean's reaction. And of course, I aww-ed at Cas running off to save his boyfriend and giving Donatello the major stink eye? Why was running out of the room enough to break the suffocating spell? ??‍♀️ So what would have happened if soulless-Donatello read the angel tablet? Same thing or no? Cas said that the soul would inoculate the prophet against whatever darkness is in the tablet. Darkness, not power. I wouldn’t expect there to be any darkness in an angel tablet, though of course there would be power. I don’t know why, but I just liked Dean's "What are you talking about?" delivery. Just the right amount of bewildered 'Why is everyone falling apart here?' without going OTT. "Yeah, because you convinced Death to get my soul back from the cage, but Amara ATE Donatello's soul; there’s nothing TO get back." Ahh, lines that only make sense on this show. I didn’t have any problems with any of the Donatello dilemma. I didn’t take issue with either Cas' original suggestion to end his suffering or what he actually did. And even though I agree with Cas' actions and reasons, I didn’t have any issues with Sam and Dean's objections.

? You could cross post it on the Appreciation Memes and Gifs thread, too.

FWIW, I just assumed the reason Sam woke up so quickly was because he didn’t eat that much of the potion before they realized something was up. Sure, but I don’t see how that ties into whether or not they should realize Michael might be able to track Cas. All that tells TFW is that if Michael or any other angel found them they’d look at Cas and go "Castiel?" My point is just that I don’t see how Michael tracking Cas in AW could be a reason the boys could use to explain why Cas wasn’t going to be part of the rescue mission with the knowledge they currently have. Admittedly, I have been very vocal on the "What about Cas" front. But that’s only lately. Back when it was just "Cas is mysterious and we don’t know why he flies into and out of the picture" I don’t think I wondered about him. Or when he was up running Heaven, or tooling around with Crowley, I didn’t find a lack of mention/contact between the boys and Cas to be a glaring omission because he had a plot line that wasn’t directly tied to what the boys were doing. But when it’s "Cas hasn’t been around lately because he’s looking for Jack, oh hey we found Jack" then it’s weird for them to either not call Cas, or apparently not mention it when Casmodeus checks in every day. And then here, there's two ingredients down and two ingredients left. I’m fine with Cas not being around. I’m fine just being left to assume that Cas is most likely searching for Lucifer for the archangel grace ingredient while the boys research for any leads on the Seal of Solomon ingredient without it being explicitly stated. I’m not fine with the boys coming into possession of both of the remaining ingredients which they know Cas is searching for too, the boys knowing that Cas feels very strongly about protecting and saving Jack, and not having that be addressed in any way. If Cas weren't tied directly to this plot line with his own investment, I wouldn’t care that they didn’t consider him. It would be like if they asked Jody to follow a possible lead on the Seal of Solomon out her way while they checked a different lead on it over their way just to increase their manpower, and then they decided to make the rift and go without talking about Jody. That wouldn’t bother me. I’d assume that they either told her offscreen already, or that Sam would do it shortly after Dean left, just as a courtesy so that she could stop wasting her time and I wouldn’t need to see it or have it mentioned. But that’s because Jody wouldn’t feel the need to do anything more than say good luck if she heard ahead of time that Dean was going in. Not the case with Cas. Yes, Cas can go through the rift if he so chooses, and yes he might agree with Dean's plan (though I think he’d only agree that ONE of the three of them should stay back, and he’d agree with Dean it should be Sam). My issue isn’t "OMG, Dean went through without waiting for Cas!" My issue isn’t even that Dean didn’t mention Cas (since I’m buying into the theory that he’s been planning to go over on his own for a while so why would he suggest updating Cas and causing him to hurry back and be part of the trip?). My issue is that they have Dean saying he’s going right now and without Sam, Sam is not down, and Cas isn’t used in the argument in some way. S: Don’t you think Cas should be part of this? D: Call him and send him over if he wants. S: And how exactly is he supposed to find you? I doubt our cell phones are gonna work over there. S: Fine, then as soon as Cas comes back, he’s getting stuck with babysitting duty and I’m coming in to help. S: Wait for Cas at least! D: I don’t wanna have to worry about him getting hurt either! I definitely agree that the second the rift opened, guns should have gone up, and Sam shouldn’t put his down until it closes. It’s not like people have to knock before they can come in.

Except that no one over here knows that Michael can track Jack for that to be part of their reasoning to leave Cas out of the trip. All they know is that Cas popped over first, had a long enough chat with Bobby to swap info about the two worlds, popped over again with Sam and Dean this time, had another decent chat, popped over a third time with Lucifer also there, and no AW angels showed up during any of those visits. So why would they assume Michael would be able to ping on angels, making that a reason not to bring Cas along? I'm fine with the theories that Dean has been 'planning' to go over alone all along. In that case it makes sense that he wouldn’t even want to call Cas to give an update since that would likely result in an argument. Doesn’t explain why Sam wouldn’t try to bring up Cas as a way to stall Dean ("He’s as desperate to save Jack as you are to save Mom. Don’t you think he should get to decide if he’s a a part of this?").

...you’re watching Planes with your 4 year olds and you giggle every time a character says "Chupacabra."

I am no expert on these details, so I welcome having my interpretation corrected. When Metatron did his thing and all the angels were booted out of heaven, I figured it was like a "cutting them all off from the Host" sort of thing such that all angels and their grace, whether unified or not, whether in Heaven or on Earth, lost the powers provided by the Host (but not whatever powers are inherent in grace, like healing boo boos). What I really don’t remember is how it could make sense that angels could get back to Heaven later yet they still don’t have the powers of the Host.

I didn’t even need one of the ingredients to have an expiration. Episode started with them looking for the SoS. Maybe Cas was also looking for it, but in China. It would have been totally fine with me if they didn’t want to wait for his wingless trip back, even with no other time constraints.

Reader Discussion @Wayward Son, @trxr4kids (and of course anyone else who wants to join in) If I may, I’d like to suggest Happily Alone by Violue. 14,715 words. Alternate universe.

Reader Discussion How (thanks to Gabriel) Dean and Castiel (accidentally) raised each other (and Sam). ( @Wayward Son @trxr4kids ) This isn’t important, but WS's chapter by chapter breakdown made me realize I referenced the wrong chapter in part of my post and I just wanted to clarify. What I should have said was

Thanks! ? Two other things... Lucifer told Cas about his escape from AW, but how much did he tell? He clearly explained that Kevin Tran found a spell on the Angel Tablet and one of the ingredients was archangel grace since we heard Cas tell that to the guys, or they mentioned needing archangel grace before Donatello saw the Demon Tablet. But did Lucifer tell Cas how the rift closed as soon as he went through? And if he didn’t, did Cas really not ask any follow ups about who else might have come through? I ask because Dean says, "So, we grab Satan, we use his grace to open a door between the two universes okay? Then we get Mom and we get Jack and then we get out. Slam the door before Michael follows us and destroys our universe. Now it’s gonna be harder than it sounds." Nowhere in any of these discussions does anyone point out that only one of them can get through, offer any ideas like "maybe if we hold hands," discuss how they have to redo the spell in AW in order to get back or rely on Jack opening the new one without a dreamwalker, or mention that they don’t really have to do anything to "slam the door" since it'll do that automatically if it’s the tablet kind of door. I’m not saying this is an error, that they SHOULD be saying these things. Just that I’m only realizing now that TFW doesn’t have all the information and this is gonna screw up their plans. Of course, in all reality something else will happen and TFW will never need to open a TabletDoor (like Jack figures it out on his own and jumps back with Mary) and this is all moot. Near the end, when Sam says, "Right. Okay. At least we know the spell we need is in there and we have a plan," what was up with his weird pointed look at Cas?

I literally cackled outloud at "SuperSexual"! ??? My only question is what’s the term for humans who are only interested in Supernatural beings but not other humans? Would that be HeteroSuperSexual? And it would also apply to say, vampires who were sexually attracted to werewolves but not other vampires. So then beings who are only attracted to their own kinds of beings are HomoSuperSexuals? Which would make Dean and Sam Bi(or Pan or Omni)SuperSexuals?

... you're putting your snowblower away after a storm, using a brush and a scraper to get as much snow off/out of it as possible. When you use your hands for some hard to reach places between/behind the blades, you think to yourself "I really hope a ghost doesn’t turn this on right now."

No analysis on Real!Cas' tie vs. Animated!Cas' tie?

THEN: So after five episodes where there was no reminder in the THEN sequences that Asmodeus was faking Cas' voice on the phone with the boys (first four of those didn’t even mention Cas being held prisoner), NOW they choose to include the reminder? NOW, in the episode where characters actually exposit that Cas was a prisoner and Asmodeus was pretending to be Cas such that we don’t need the reminder, NOW is when we get it. Not in the other episodes where a casual viewer might be confused about the references of the boys talking to Cas and no one exposits anything. Nope, this is the episode where it’s needed. I’m just glad this is over so I don’t have to see how stupidly it was handled anymore. NOW: Was Lucifer's "Okay. Okay Cupid" supposed to be a joke? This is where someone should say "Timeout. Guys, we’ve been burned too many times by this kind of stuff. Time to make some password phrases to slip into conversations so we know if we’re dealing with an imposter, the real deal, or the real deal being forced to act like nothing is wrong." No. I’m not okay with this. "I met with Lucifer" implies a planned meet up, not what really happened (Lucifer suddenly showing up and saying 'We need to talk'). "That’s why I met with Lucifer" and "Given the context [...] [meeting with Lucifer] didn’t seem stupid" imply that the knowledge of AW!Michael's plans was part of what influenced Cas to talk to Lucifer. But Cas didn’t know any of that when he decided to hear Lucifer out. All Lucifer said to change Cas' mind was "We're sorta ... all gonna die." Cas never adds the disclaimer that this is all according to Lucifer. Normally I wouldn’t mind so much because how else could he have found this out, so obviously it came from Lucifer. But considering how his previous statements implied he knew this info before meeting with Lucifer, it accidentally suggests he had a different source. Everyone should be treating this information with suspicion, even though we know it’s true. Asmodeus is even took it with a grain of salt in 13.07 WotW. Cas' explanation should have gone something more like this... "Yes. And the archangel, Michael, again the apocalypse world version, wants to use the spell to invade and conquer our world. That’s why Lucifer found me; so he could warn me." "Wait, you actually heard him out? Cas, I specifically told you not to do anything stupid." "Well, he was weak and said we were all gonna die, so it didn’t seem stupid to find out why." In response to the 'anything stupid' line, I would have also been fine with Cas retorting, "You mean like losing Jack to an alternate universe? That kind of 'anything stupid'?" Lucifer's stomach growled and he said "I'm hungry?" but my closed captioning said "I hungry?" which made that moment hilarious to me. "I can has cheezburger?" Lucifer begging for money was all kinds of perfect for me. I never thought entitled/belligerent begging could even exist, but of course that’s the only way Lucifer would do it. Why the guy bothered to help him, I don’t know. I remember during the episodes where the boys would have been talking to Casmodeus, there was a little debate about how this even made sense as a possibility. (Short summary: In the past, Dean has picked up on when something is "off" with Cas, even when it IS Cas, so some of us were skeptical how Dean wasn’t pinging anything weird when it ISN'T Cas. It seemed like most of the on screen references to talking to Casmodeus implied Sam was talking to him. Yes, we could buy that Sam wouldn’t have pinged anything, but then the question became why doesn’t seem weird to anyone on TFW that Casmodeus is only/mainly talking to Sam?) After all that overanalyzing, this seemed like a very anticlimactic wrap-up. Also, I’m not really sure what Dean was getting at with his "You sure about that?" Is he trying to delicately ask if Cas was traumatized from his imprisonment? Is he trying to find out if Cas is upset no one could tell it wasn’t him? Wait, they can get in touch with Donatello that easily? Then why didn’t they contact him after Jack flew off at the end of Tombstone? I swear I don’t actually put THAT much thought into the show, but that only makes it worse when apparently my "not that much thought" is 50 times more than how much TPTB put into it. Well, SOMEone's been reading fanfic ? I know angels can recognize other angels regardless of the vessel, but even on video? I wasn’t expecting that. HANG ON A SECOND! Asmodeus didn’t know that Jack was in another universe until this moment? What the actual fuck have the boys and Casmodeus been talking about during their phone calls? How best to keep the shine on their angel blades? To me, all of this reeks of TPTB just saying "Look, for 5 weeks we're just gonna ignore this whole Cas is locked up thing. We'll use Casmodeus as an excuse but really that’s just a stall tactic; it’s not gonna actually mean anything to the plot or anything. But when Cas comes back we're gonna have to acknowledge it, but just half ass it since it didn’t matter in the first place." Does anyone in heaven know about AW!Michael and his plan to come over here? Lucifer didn’t mention it to them or even Sister Jo on screen. All he talked about was the Angels’ numbers being depleted and how he could make more. Does he not want them to know because they might choose to follow AW!Michael instead? So Sister Jo left town with Lucifer right after he showed up, and then ascended to throne-adjacent in Heaven. So this means the guy won’t get his legs fixed ☹️ Sure, lots of people won’t be healed by her now, but he helped Lucifer find her and this is his payback? Not that this sentiment is new by any means, but fuck you, Lucifer. I’m not even going to talk about the last 2 seconds of the episode. I find it insulting to be given a half-assed episode that gets capped off with a "huge mind-blowing reveal" that has to be designed to distract us from how half-assed the episode was. So I’m not gonna play ball. I’m not distracted, show!