rubyred

Can someone explain how much of a threat the White Walkers are to the South? In another thread it was mentioned that wights can't go beyond the Wall -- presumably because they are popsicle zombies? Can the Night King venture as far south as KL, or is it the North that will be the primary target when the WWs come to call?

IMO it doesn't matter why Sansa didn't tell Jon (she didn't know, she wasn't sure, she didn't think Jon would accept LF's help, we don't know if she heard from LF etc.) but just the fact that she deliberately didn't tell him. Maybe telling him would have changed his strategy, maybe not. Maybe he would have blown her off again. But she lied by omission about something vitally important, and that shows a lack of trust that could/should have some repercussions in the foundation of their relationship. Great, she bitched that Jon didn't ask her opinion (an outburst which I found weirdly anachronistic), and she had a point, but saying things like "he's a sneaky snake" and "he'll get in your head" are not exactly bursting with intel. How about "he raped me on our wedding night and forced Theon to watch" -- now that's a vivid word picture that encapsulates Ramsay's pathology. But the Battle was the Battle it was because of PLOT, and everything else came in service to that. Of course Jon Snow was going to try to save his brother. Of course he was going to blow his own battle plans. Those actions were completely in character, which made it even easier for the writers to make Ramsay's cruel strategies seem even more brilliant and commanding. That battle scene was brutal. It took me an hour to get through it, I kept pausing every 10 seconds because the violence was so nuts. Effective but dang, hard to watch. On a more poignant note...I'm actually kind of dreading Jon & Arya's reunion, because she is just not that person anymore, I can't picture today's Arya jumping in his arms like she did the day he left Winterfell. (Assuming there is a reunion, just spec.)

For me the underlying problem of the show is I don't care about Weller's manpain. I don't care if it's guilt, I am unmoved by his daddy issues, and I am teetering on squicked out by his obsession with Jane. I am, however, still intrigued with Jane and whatever the hell she is mixed up in. I am interested in the traumatized amnesiac, not the neck-bearded super-agent with zero objectivity. If the show were to focus on her and the new Reade/Zapata/Patterson Scooby group I could stick around for another season. If it once again revolves around Weller's "anguish" and "guilt" and "pain" - I'm out.

I can see why some would see Jay's reaction as hypocritical (and not saying that it isn't), but I bought his hesitancy. In the pre- "Black Suitor" world, it was accepted wisdom that POCs would rarely make it to Final Four, and their corresponding TV time usually only tracked two ways: the pretty, accomplished POC with "no chemistry" or the black bitch/Nene/ratchet screamer. Shamiqua and Athena went on the show knowing this; Jay didn't ask either of them to do anything beyond this. But Jay is seeing the bigger picture with Ruby the Black Activist, and I think has reservations about how this show packages "reality" into catchy soundbites and favors contrived controversy over truthtelling. Rachel did a great job selling how the show was a great platform for Ruby's views, but Ruby is just idealistic and young enough not to understand the cynicism behind her casting. The show is crafted in the editing room, and her "platform" could just as easily be completely undermined than showcased. Jay knows how the sausage is made, he's made some of it himself, so he sees the pitfalls, and I think that's realistic. It will be interesting to see if his reservations transform into actual action or if he too will be further drawn to the dark side like Rachel, in the interests of securing some money, dick and power for himself. I have faith that what the show has in store for Chet and Jeremy will be epically humiliating.

Sansa's ineptitude at corralling the North reminded me forcibly, and unpleasantly, of her mother Catelyn, who was constantly hectoring people about supporting Starks/Tullys and even handwaved, to Karstark, the killing of his son so that she could barter to save her own kids. I hope she understands now that she needs to read the the room and have some empathy for the losses that the Stark bannermen have suffered, before she asks them to volunteer more lives. Cersei/Olenna scene: delicious. The best part was seeing how enraging it was for Cersei, and also seeing that she knew it was true. Cersei Wig Watch: still not great, but better styled. I wish we'd gotten a reaction shot from Sansa about Wun Wun. Surely he's the first Giant she's ever seen. Edmure had no lines! You are a good sport, Tobias Menzies. Proof (to me) that TV writers are in charge: the fact that they reintroduced The Hound at this point, how they reintroduced the Hound (that massacre was telegraphed from minute one of that subplot), and the lame dialogue that allowed me to predict - out loud - that the Hound would say that what drove him was "hate." I don't know if it was from the books, but it was so obvious and hackneyed. (BTW I think the hate he was referring to was not towards Brienne; I think it's still all about The Mountain.) So grateful to see Jaimie out of KL, bantering with Bronn and acting like Jaime of seasons past (soldier, leader of men). Blackfish was awesome, as I expected, again.

Thanks, that has been niggling at me. But I'm not sure if the show has explained where the House of Baratheon is from? Were they a Northern family? And with Stannis gone, is that the end of the (legitimate) house/line?

Personally I would have ranked Charlene higher than Mary Jo; Charlene was my introduction to the amazing talent of Jean Smart and I loved how she pulled off that role. Mary Jo, yeah, I guess she was more "relatable" or whatever but for me she got points off for that doofus ex, Ted, who was obviously, even to my adolescent eyes, NOT WORTH IT. BUT. I still recall my favorite Mary Jo speech. The women were worried about having to buy a new van for the business -- worried that they would be taken advantage of, that they didn't know how to negotiate for something like that. And Mary Jo was like, "Have you ever tried to buy a chicken in Guadalajara?" And went on to tell this glorious story of going with Ted to Mexico (where he attended medical school, I mean come on) and how she learned how to negotiate. And then she went to the dealership and totally crushed the "don't worry little lady" car salesman LIKE A BOSS. Never forgot that, and it has informed every negotiation I've made since.

It's so interesting to read commentary in the Book Talk threads, because though I haven't read them and have no intention of reading them, TBH, it's a point of curiosity to me how the show does and doesn't diverge from the text. Ordinarily I prefer to read source material before seeing an adaptation, but this particular type of fantasy fiction doesn't really resonate for me, and the snippets of text I've come across online I've found...disturbing, and not in a way that strikes me as entertaining. That said, I love a good story, and it's clear that GRRM loooooves this story, loves it so much in fact that he can't bear to finish it. There is a very rich and detailed world, with a deep history to mine for story, so as TV entertainment GOT is a great diversion. But now we've arrived at the off-book point in the series. And I think we've seen already the pros and cons of having the heavy work of the writing fall to D&D instead of cribbing and condensing as much from original text. What strikes me is that even as a non-bookreader, the moments and occasionally dialogue that I find particularly compelling have invariably been derived from GRRM. Specifically the text of the Pink Letter ("come and see" - that was good) and the Hodor reveal. Where D&D show their hand as writer/producers is pacing and sometimes lazy TV characterization. Shiz is starting to happen way faster. And also, as TV creatives, they have an understanding of how much and audience can take - I think that was the reason for the Sansa/Jon reunion. The audience needed a reunion, needed the emotional payoff of a win for these characters. Even learning later that that was non-book, that Sansa/Jon so far have not been close, doesn't really negate the emotional punch of seeing that scene because the TV audience has been so battered by misery. By lazy TV characterization I'm referring to Sam/Gilly, whose scenes have been painful Westeros Valley High exchanges ever since they met. You knew as soon as Sam told Gilly not to reveal that she was a Wildling that she would, and pretty much exactly how she would, with some embarrassing, flat-affected pronouncement at the worst possible time. (I am a little anti-Gilly, I admit, Hannah Murray has worked a nerve since Skins). D&D also have to approach the show as producers, so for them storylines are also going to be influenced by budget. Unfortunately they want to spend more money on less and less convincing dragon CGI than Cersei's wig, but whatever. That said, I think the Hodor reveal was far more affecting as a scene than it would have been on the page. One thing they could do is not cram all the characters into each episode. Every time the light changes and I realize we're in Meereen or the desert I think, "dang, this cast is too big." TL;DR: There are pros and cons to being off-book, both from a writing and a producing standpoint.

It felt like this show was just completely rebooted. No more tattoo-instigated procedural, bring on the shadow conspiracies with Zapata, Reade and Patterson chasing down Daylight/Orion to vindicate Mayfair and Weller losing his damn mind because of his Jane obsession. Ugh, losing Oscar is a LOSS. Bye, show.

Oh I'm calling it: the baby will be born, amidst terror and wacky hijinks, in episode 13.

Hm, in the moment I thought that Sansa lied to Jon because she didn't want to admit she'd met LF, and knew Jon would reject any intel from that source. Hate to think LF actually succeeded in planting a seed of mistrust. But I do like seeing how hardass Sansa has become ("The Umbers gave Rickon to Ramsay. They can hang." <mic drop>) I was happy that Dany gave Jorah a decent farewell. I've been worried about Iain Glen, with that fair complexion, having to wander around in leather in the desert (or Spain, whatev) so I imagine he was happy to ride out of frame and directly to a nice, air conditioned pub. I can't remember -- why did Benjen join the Nightwatch? Surely he wasn't a criminal, was he?

I get why some think that Monroe and Rosalee's baby is fanservice, but IMO theirs is the only baby that should ever have happened on this show. I really think that narratively both Diana and Kelly seriously derailed Grimm, and have turned it into something it was not intended to become based on its potential and implicit promise of earlier seasons. In my headcanon, Diana would have stayed offscreen as part of the aborted Royals subplot (and not been Renard's). But the producers couldn't be bothered to cast someone else and decided to double down on Claire Coffee, so suddenly Adalind has a maternal epiphany. The uterus is a strange and wonderful organ, my friends, capable of converting even the most avaricious hexenbeist into a wesen madonna. And then, even more egregiously, it was beyond them to do something other than write in Coffee's RL pregnancy, thus Kelly is born. Never mind that of the female characters, Adalind was the worst option for depicting motherlove, and was far more interesting a character when she was an unrepentant hexenbiest. Now she's reformed by loooove. So hacky. Meanwhile Monroe and Rosalee manage to forge an authentic-seeming relationship, but because it's now baby #3 on the show it garners more of an eyeroll. But what are they gonna do now? Kill off two kids next season? Despite last night's carnage, this is not a show that kills babies. Just beheads mothers.

Amazing that with all that carnage we didn't lose a single series regular. (Dammit *cough* Julieve). I love that there isn't a better canon name for that artifact than "Magic Stick". At least, that's what I call it - does it even have a name in the show? That precinct of Black Claw wesen gave me the creeps. I think the show is still hedging its bets on how evil Renard is. It's like they can't commit to it, and Roiz is playing it like he's not sure either. It could be interesting..he had a few beats where he seemed ambivalent, but he didn't stop Bonaparte from hurting Adalind, and Diana was controlling the sabre when he killed Bonaparte, so how much was he in thrall and how much was he in control? The thing is, this show is not good at showing nuance like that, so I have no hope that this will be explored next season. It'll go under the rug, like Zombie Nick. Has the show ever established what the offspring of inter-species wesen are? Do they share traits from each parent or are they one or the other? Or is this yet another aspect of wesen lore that has not been spelled out by the show?

I like Marianne Jean-Baptiste, but she always seemed bored in this role. She played it already, what, a dozen years ago on Without a Trace. Ironically this ep was the most engaged she's been throughout the show. I did think bringing in Sophia as her betrayer was pretty clever though. Because didn't Mayfair participate in Daylight very, very reluctantly, with Sophia being the main cheerleader? I am worried we're going to lose Better Love Interest because the actor has been cast in a pilot for next season. Sounds batshit, but who knows? I thought that the not-Taylor reveal was a belated course-correction because the writers didn't know how to explain Taylor's disappearance so they threw their hands up and went for a "shocker." Never mind that it makes Weller seem even more unhinged and unhealthily focused on Jane. So much for just "knowing" that Jane was Taylor, huh Weller?

Is there such a thing as flashback rage? Because even just thinking back on Catelynn's self-righteous, bitchy self still almost puts me in a blackout of hate. I think we're now seeing some of the pros and cons of the show now being off-book. On the plus side, pacing and emotional payoff. Shit is happening faster, and DAMN did the audience deserve a Stark reunion of some kind. On the minus side (IMO), the writing is getting...eh. Tyrion used to be witty. Now he's reduced to making jokes about Varys' lack of balls, hardy har. He did it twice in two weeks; the "diplomats" took care of the eunuch joke this week. Meanwhile the real vein of comedy to be mined is in the characters, such as the Brienne/Tormund scenes. No dialogue necessary, folks! Not a single dick joke, yet you knew exactly what was going on and the reactions of each of the characters was perfect. Personally I think it's because no matter how much D&D love the source material, they don't looove this story like GRRM does. Dude loves this story so much, he can't bear to finish it! Meanwhile D&D hit the mother lode in terms of a rich, detailed intellectual property that is a hit on TV. And sure they're into the story, but they also have favorites (Cersei, Ramsay) who don't really seem to be longterm players. Ramsay has definitely long since hit his sell by date, and I get it, I like Iwan Rheon too but as many have said, Ramsay's pathologies are well-documented and he's just not clever enough to get further. Too bad he killed his dad, Roose was a chess player (figuratively speaking) with the best voice. D&D are also producers, so probably by necessity their storytelling decisions are going to be influenced to some degree by production costs. GRRM doesn't have to worry about how often the dragons appear; for D&D that's a huge chunk of the CGI budget. Hmm. I wonder if they could direct some of that budget into a CGI wig for Cersei. It certainly couldn't look worse than the one they've got her in now. I love Brienne so much, you guys. I love her stank face. I loved how she rolled up on Davos and Melisandre. I loved how Mel winced and tried to slide away when Brienne mentioned Renly. Always standing tall, never cowering. Never change, Brienne! I got you girl!

So, basically the High Sparrow told Margaery that she's a sinner because wanting to get back to her family means she'd be getting back to being rich. The hell? She was talking about relationships, and he was talking about circumstances over which she has no control. It's not her fault her family is rich. It doesn't make her more of a sinner that she has nice clothes, even if it takes longer for someone to make them. I don't have a lot of patience for fanaticism, particularly when it offers no practical alternatives. Okay, the rich are the scourge and need to be brought down. Then what? What is the PLAN? I barely understand what Cersei says these days. I mean I know she's plotting to get revenge for her humiliation but she's such a basic, vindictive bitch that I can't even enjoy her machinations because they're always so short-sighted and selfish and she quite often underestimates her opponents. This Faith Militant debacle is all her own fault so I can't help but side-eye her outrage. Plus her pixie wig is AWFUL. (I am constantly flashing back to Tywin telling Cersei she isn't as smart as she thinks she is...and it is so true!) Not looking forward to the Mereen plot; I suspect Tyrion is buying into his own hype as a super-diplomat and of course the slave masters et al are going to betray him. I expect this master diplomacy to result in major casualties of the slave, Unsullied and freedmen persuasions. Tyrion will, of course, live to drink another day. That's okay; that's what the mute button is for. Sansa will never have to talk openly about Ramsay's treatment of her. People know, and knew. Winterfell is full of workers and servants, and gossip like that would common knowledge. Just like Umber knew that Ramsay killed Roose, despite Ramsay's claim that Roose fell ill or whatever. God only knows what lies he's told about poor Walda and the baby. You think the North doesn't know about the infant being attacked by dogs? That's one of the reasons why Ramsay's become so boring. We KNOW, show. You don't have to keep coming up with new and unusual ways to show Ramsay torturing or killing anyone. We get it. It's time to take him down. Or put him down, as it were.

That veteran actor they've got recurring as a uniformed cop got so many lines I was starting to think he was going to be revealed as Wesen and kill Hank. Because this show is just that subtle. Not. I think I've given up on hoping this show will ever even hint at its earlier potential. IMO BOTH Adalind and Juliette should have been gone a looooong time ago. The nonconsensual sex, multiple babies - these storylines have just ruined everything, made this a horror-domestic instead of a fun horror/fantasy show. Plus I believe Diana is going to attempt to kill Kelly in oh, about five minutes, so that will be a great memory, infanticide, fun! I watch because of inertia, I guess.

I love how each clone brings out different protective instincts! I see what you're saying, netlyon2, but I can't co-sign that Alison has replaced Sarah with Felix simply because Alison can't hurt Felix the way Sarah can. That sibling bond is deep and as complicated as any bio-bond. Alison and Felix are great together, but they don't have the memories of a shared childhood. This nasty rift between Sarah and Felix highlights one of the basic questions of the show, who is your family? And IMO the way it's being depicted is pretty authentic to each of their characters: Felix feels just as threatened by Sarah's bio siblings as she is by his, and neither of them are mature enough to deal with it constructively. It actually kind of weirds me out that S is being so Carole Brady about it all. Cosima managed to bumble through this time, mostly through luck and contrivance. She definitely should have looked at the security pass. And she would have known that Susan Duncan is alive, because Sarah (and Ferdinand, and I think S) learned it at the same time, and there would have been no reason to hide that info from Cos. She was definitely a good choice to send in there simply because she understands the science, but sending in ANY clone was a high risk endeavor, and ostentatiously averting her eyes every time Evie Cho glanced in her general direction was not great undercovering. Krystal, of course, was a glorious spoiler for it all. Oh god, the look on Donnie's face when Krystal pushed herself up to him and that baby; I had to pause the TV and lmao. I just realized I pause a LOT of Donnie's scenes, starting with when he shot Leekie. The one thing that worries me about this show is that however much I root for them, I don't see how the Clones are going to win in the end. They simply don't have the resources of Neo/Dyad/TheMilitary/NextBigBad. Every time they scrape together some leverage they're forced to give it up. I'm kind of surprised at how much I miss Helena already. Shakira wig and pink eyeshadow aside, there's something Maslany does behind her eyes that's uniquely Helena, and I love her monotone, accent, and fractured English.

I still don't care how "rude" Sarah is. She will always be my MVP because girl is IN THE SHIT ALL THE TIME. She has always been on the front line, in the most physical danger of all the clones (second place goes to Helena). She fucks up, she gets angry, she's a stress-ball with a seriously janky side-braid right now -- and I feel her pain and exhaustion. I don't care if she doesn't apologize, she is constantly risking her life and now has a parasitic worm-thing in her cheek. Meanwhile Cosima continues to blithely think she's good at undercover (she's not, AGAIN) and Alison compartmentalizes so much the other clones aren't even aware of all the OTHER fronts on which she's made them vulnerable. I do think she lied about Adele and Felix because she could see how much Felix wanted it to be true. My bet is that Adele is either his bio-mom (the actress has always dressed and acted younger than she looks, IMO) or a Neo plant in the Genexxion computer system set to flag for anyone asking about Fee's DNA. The scenes with Fee and Sarah fighting hurt to watch, but they are so well done. You get the angst and the sibling assholishness of both characters. But Fee sneering at the worm in her face -- yet another factoid shared with this "sister" he feels so close to, not cool brah-- that really felt like a low blow. Just nasty. Donnie + Krystal: awesome. I can't believe that S, the most suspicious person on the planet, actually suggested that it could be a coincidence that Adele used Genexxion. I hope Kendall tells them all to fuck off next week.

Morland has always seemed to be trying really hard to bite his tongue despite Sherlock's sniping goads, and he mostly succeeds, but a couple of instances come to mind: last episode, when he flayed Sherlock (with words) when Sherlock wouldn't tell him who murdered Sabine, and earlier in the season, with the "btw, your mom was a junkie" reveal. When Morland's control snaps, you could see immediately why their father/son dynamic is so damaged. What made those moments even more poignant (for me) was Sherlock's complete lack of surprise at his father's vitriol.

Of COURSE Lash "died to save Daisy." He was the Noble Savage. So do today's TV writers not understand any one of these things: tropes, optics, stereotypes, TRIPE?!! And having Lash actually be killed FROM BEHIND by that Aussie s*** we met like 3 episodes ago...really? That moron was able to best Lash, who up until now has been unstoppable? Someone left their cake out in the rain, because that was just weak. And no spoilers, but

Okay here's what I don't understand about the Kree. So the Kree slavers - sorry, "reapers" came to Earth and captured slaves -- sorry, "soldiers" and experimented on them. They were trying to create soldiers by transfusing Kree blood into the humans. What kind of soldiers were they trying to create? Kree-lite? Apparently they did NOT want to create Inhumans, so they set about trying to kill all the Inhumans they themselves created. And then...they left Hive a beacon just in case he maybe in future wants them to come back and kill him? Did I miss something key in the exposition dump that explained why they continued to create creatures they wanted to immediately kill? And anyway, not every human can become Inhuman, right? So Daisy thinking she can transform Mack into "what he should be" despite his own will is a crapshoot, right? Unless they have figured out offscreen how to tell if people have the mutated genome necessary for Terragenesis to take place. Am I understanding the magic-en-scene of this world? Aside from that, the Mack/Daisy confrontation was so hackneyed and cliche-ridden. From the second Mack tried to talk Daisy out of following Hive - that simple decision told me how far the show has fallen even in plot, let alone characterization.

I was glad to see Lincoln as a distinct character without being saddled doing the schmoopy shit with Daisy. Her betrayal will be enough, I hope, to scotch that boring romance, because how can any of them trust her again like they did before? I know I couldn’t. Of course, breaking them up also opens the door for Lincoln to be the “fallen agent”…As long as it’s not Mack, he’s been through enough loss this season, show!

I know lovinbob doesn't want to know, but thinking back I think the deal was that Peter was guilty, but not of what he was imprisoned for. He was guilty of sleeping with prostitutes. But he was not guilty of paying them out of public funds, which was what got him nailed. He paid the escort personally, unaware of the setup that was paying her separately. Did they ever identify who was behind that setup? Generic Other Party Villain? This time I think he's playing it defeated because the Kings still didn't know when this was written at this point if this would be the last season so they were hedging their bets. I suspect it'll be pretty clear soon. But I agree, what a waste of seven years to have Alicia's "growth" be wrapped up in a cypher with a leather jacket and smirk.

I was so put off by Lin's characterization ("Ugh, Millenials, Amirite?!!") that all I wanted all episode was for Joan to lower the boom. I too don't see the need for a younger sister. And they totally did not make clear what her damage is that she'd be such a bitch to Joan. IIRC Joan's bio dad is a mentally ill homeless man; or isn't he, show?! He had another family? Where did this come from? I grudgingly give props to the actress, she consistently pissed me off for the whole show so I guess she did a good job. Argh.