LadyChatts

Didn't Terry have an idol on Panama? Actually, I think the idol was first introduced in Guatemala (though I can't remember who had it). What I most remember about Troyzan and Tarzan is Troy not liking the fact that there was someone else with a nickname ending in 'zan out there. He wanted to be the only 'zan on his island. I think that's gracious you're willing to find something likable about Colton, or why he acts like that. I could never muster the energy.

Michele (most of this is due to being soured with the jury to begin with, but maybe if they made her more visible I'd except it more. Aubry and even Tai had story arcs. I remember nothing about Michele. The only bright side is that Probst hates her win). JT (sorry, but after his HvsV and GC blunders, I can not take his win seriously). Chris (can't really remember why, but I loved Twila, and hated Eliza, and Eliza hated Twila, so I wanted Twila to win. Chris got super lucky with the tribe division, because had it been 5 younger guys to 4 older men, he would have been first boot for his challenge blunder). Amber (should have been Rob's win, and it sort of was since they got married. But she got there because of him, and she won because of a bitter jury that was pissed at him for doing the dirty work. Seriously one of the worst juries ever). I remember Kelly Wiglesworth saying she was told by Sean and Greg that they only voted for Rich because it was easier to lose to the obnoxious, older fat guy than the fit, 20 something female. Whether that's true or not, I don't know, but I do agree that that could factor into a jurors decision.

I've seen various theories floating around that I think might be great, but I'm sure the show will ruin it and do something stupid. Some retread of RI or the Outcast twist or some producer interfering twist. ETA: So here's another tidbit from Redmond. If this is what Ghost Island ends up being, I hate it, but I'm thinking this could be it. http://insidesurvivor.com/survivor-30-ghosts-the-returnee-season-that-almost-happened-28061

I'm intrigued, but also nervous. I hope this isn't some twist where it's all newbies, but the tribes are made of castaways that know each other-except it's more like BB twist and less like BvsW where they really don't want the other person there.

I get what people are saying about Borneo and some of the old school seasons feeling like a chore to watch (if you can get through them at all). I've been making the effort to re watch the older seasons (Borneo, Thailand, and Outback), and I think a lot of it is the slower pace compared to today. They have all the elements I miss, but I'll find myself saying 'okay can we get to something exciting now.' Borneo especially is like that pilot TV season that does really well, but they decide to change everything for the rest of the series run. I re watched Cook Islands recently, and while it is still a top 10 season for me (especially where challenges are concerned-why can't they re use some of those?) I find myself not liking it as much as before. The Aitu 4 kicking Raro's ass wasn't as exciting on re watch, and I actually found some of the Raro members-dare I say-appealing? I still can't understand how Candice has come back twice, although I'm glad she was included for BvsW since we got to meet her hubby. I actually found Adam and Nate to be a lot funnier than I remember. I'd love to see both of them play again. Cao Boi I also had a new found appreciation for, and wish he had gotten a better edit than eccentric oddball, even if that was part of his charm. But he definitely seemed smarter and wiser than they gave him credit for.

I'm going to go with Amazon. A tribe twist that didn't completely tank or suck. A young 20 something male being the first boot for the first time in Survivor history. Fun, interesting, and memorable personalities. This was a season that proved you could have good, unpredictable game play without needing idols or show intervention. Seeing people who were overly cocky about their position in the game getting blindsided (before they turned every vote into a blindside), and people never learning that they might not be in control. And, at the time, a surprising outcome. Jenna's victory makes perfect sense, but back then, I would have bet everything I owned on Matt winning (of course, CBS spoiled the ending right before the vote reveal, when they accidentally showed the caption "Jenna's family"). Some other highlights: Rob C doing a Casey Kasem dedication to Roger when he voted him out, Butch getting completely wasted at camp, crazy Matt and the machete sharpening, Shawna wanting to get voted out claiming she was sick and over it, then perking up once the tribe swap happened and they got boys at their camp, the camp being burned down, Christy saving all her money at the auction and spending it on a love letter from home (and Jenna being annoyed that she would dare outbid her-I know Jenna's mom had cancer at the time, but Christy hadn't bought anything at that point), some of my all time favorite challenges, and I loved the location. I remember how big a deal it was to have Christy, the first ever deaf contestant. Oh, and of course, Jenna and Heidi getting naked for peanut butter.

I doubt Jonathan would get a second chance after all this time, which is too bad. That's probably the worst twist ever. Willard got lucky, but I'm sure he figured there was no chance he was getting picked. I liked the idea of picking teams, but it was so dumb. It would have been a cool twist to say, once only Jonathan and Wanda were left, that they each got immunity and could join the tribe they wanted. I'd still love to see Bobby Jon get a third chance, and Angie, Gregg, and Katie get second chances. I'm also glad they never brought the Outcast twist back. It's why I'm not a fan of redemption island, either. Once you're voted out, you're voted out. And after gamechangers, hopefully no more two tribes go to TC, but only vote one person out. But I think the fake merge, after all this time, would probably be totally forgotten. I guess just anything to switch it up and make people think on their toes, or be on their guard. I don't want them afraid to make moves, but I'd like for the votes to maybe be strategic. The thought lingering that they might merge tomorrow, or maybe they'll merge and de-merge, or that a swap might not be coming. So would that impact who they ultimately end up voting off, and could the plan change? While I believe Shii Ann was next to go if Sook Jai lost, anyway, that look on her face when Jeff said "who said this was a merge" was absolutely priceless. That "should have just waited 5 more minutes before blabbing."

The main reason I can't stand that season has to do with Cochran. Otherwise, I don't think it'd be my favorite season, but I would probably tolerate it more. Sophie winning was about the only highlight.

Yeah, I know some seasons didn't have the swaps (and some were made better by it), but it's been awhile. It's so routine now. China is definitely one of my top 10 favorite seasons. Usually a season that features a good old fashioned (almost) Pagonging is bleh to me. But this season made up for the predictability in so many other ways. Casting was definitely a huge factor as to why I found this season enjoyable. America's Funniest Videos use to do these video mash ups, where someone was making a comment from one vid, and it was inserted into others. I feel like they need to do that with Courtney's soundbites. I think that's what I enjoyed about the season, though, is that it was one of the last ones to really feel like an old school season.

I also get enjoyment out of re-watching old seasons. Knowing the outcome and what happens, I can sit back and relax and take note of things that happened that I missed before. I also find myself loving (or unloving) different aspects of the season or people that I didn't before. Watching Palau, for instance, I remember when I watched that season the first time, all my favorites were on Ulong, and I was super annoyed that they didn't do a tribe swap (that season of all seasons). I wondered what the members of Ulong did to production not to get thrown that life line. On re-watch? Watching them self destruct was absolutely hilarious. Still loved Bobby Jon and Angie, and I found myself liking James more on re-watch. The rest? I only wish Stephenie had gotten voted out earlier. I remember one of the challenges (can't remember if it was the distress signal or building a bathroom), but the remaining members of Ulong sat on the beach, believing they won, and kept saying "they'll be back" (as the sun is going down). As for Koror, I actually forgot half of that tribe was as visible as they were. I remembered nothing about Gregg, other than his showmance with Jenn, but I wish he'd been given a second chance at some point. And Katie's "we can't have an women's alliance because Caryn sucks" is definitely one of my all time favorite Katie moments. Just got done with Outback and almost done with HvsV. Not sure which one to watch next.

I won't be shocked if 2020/S40 ends up being the last Survivor season aired, or at least aired on TV (they might stream it online somewhere). Agreed. There's pros and cons to all number set ups (either for the viewers or the show). I go back to the strategy aspect at TC as to why having more people in a tribe is better, but I honestly forgot about half of the people from MvsGX before the season even ended. And sometimes it isn't even strategy, it still falls back onto some overconfident alpha male that just wants to vote out the older woman because she's weak by his standards (even if he has no basis for his argument and some male on the tribe is older than her and actually showed being weak). Another unpopular opinion, but I'd almost like to see a season with no tribe swaps, or a fake merge ala Thailand. Yes, it could make for boring, predictable TV, especially if one tribe goes Ulong again. I guess my current mood is, re-watching old seasons, I remember when stuff added the game was still fresh and exciting, and you never seemed to know what was going to happen. Now it's just boring and stale. I'd like to see people be on their guard and toes.

Redemption Island, South Pacific, Caramoan, All Stars, and Samoa (nothing really against Samoa, other than it was the Russell show and I found it boring as a result).

From what I understand, Probst is actually big on bringing back old school players, but CBS is the one who has the recency bias. That's not to say Jeff suffers from that as well, but I think he does go to bat more for the old schoolers. I heard he pushed to get Tina and Gervase on BvsW, and he wanted Varner back for S34 (let's not get into what a disaster that turned out to be). I wouldn't be surprised if he pushed for Varner and Kimmi for Second Chances. However, I don't believe he's much of a Vee fan, so I'd be surprised to see her ever return. He's the one who said the big issue with an all winners season is that there aren't enough strong female winners, which I completely disagree with. I'd kill to see Neleh again, and Kelly Goldsmith. She was an alternate to Jenna M for AS, and I don't know what happened during HvsV, but it sounds like she was in as she quit her job, then was replaced. In terms of Monica-that's the only logic I've found for her being on the ballot in the first place, is that she was somewhat of a challenge to Russell. My personal feeling is that some people were included on the ballot with the intent that they stood no chance to get on, and yet some campaigned more successfully than others and made it.

I wonder if it's staying in the same location that just makes it easier and cheaper to re-use challenges. Or that they don't want to make it too hard on the castaways (despite the fact that there've been puzzle challenges that Jeff basically had to give them the answer to-and those challenges were hilarious as a result). But they definitely need a change. At the very least the challenges need to be more challenging.

I've been thinking about some of the comments here, especially since I'm re-watching this season right now. I didn't understand why Colby came back when it first aired, and I get it even less on re-watch. The Heroes egos (mainly the men) seem more overinflated on re-watch as well. I think JT truly wanted to be the one in charge and calling the shots. The core alliance couldn't even hide their arrogance at sticking together, despite being questioned by Jeff that maybe it wasn't wise to keep injured parties like Rupert and James around. Keep people are that are weak and keep losing, but keep your solid numbers. Or vote off the weak and risk not having numbers going forward, but maybe start winning. To James's credit, I do think he did somewhat well given his injury, but had they not merged when they did, it was probably only a matter of time before it caught up with him. Still, seeing the Heroes and their egos taken down twenty notches after the merge was glorious, especially since the 3 men had been patting themselves on the back and crowing about making Survivor history and taking down the (non existant) evil Parvati led female alliance. As for Colby, I wonder if James got into his head a little much during that first challenge. He ribbed him about getting his ass kicked by Coach, and went on about how excited he was to have Colby on his tribe, but he didn't live up to the memory from Outback. I'm going to take this time as well to again point out what an overbearing jerk James was. I don't know what happened to him between Micronesia and here, but sheesh.

I'd prefer 16, forever and always. But while I typically hate 20 person seasons, from a strategic stand point, I like having more people to pick from at TC. Sometimes it won't matter regardless, but with a 6 person tribe, I feel like it's much easier for one person to be targeted, and no one argue for fear of a vote split or winding up the next target since you went against the majority. Plus, with 20, I think the opportunity for tribe twists is better (even if it's the same stale formula for 18 or 20).

I've also always thought that Vee was an underrated winner. In general, I loved Marquesas, and am disappointed that the only representatives we've ever had are Kathy and Rob. And now Rob has pretty much defined that season, even though he was a pre-jury boot that started off on the losing-est tribe ever (at the time). I do love my girl Neleh, though, and because I hated the Rotu 4 and their bitterness, I really wanted her to win. But clearly that wasn't happening with that jury. I'd always wanted Sean back, too. I did like Kathy, but I realize now that was more to do with the underdog factor, and (again) disliking the Rotu 4, which she was not a part of. After AS, though, I can't say I came out liking many people that I liked before. After watching Outback again, Alicia seems like such a different person from that season to this one. I never liked Lex, and was so glad to see him get owned.

And a lot of that is editing to begin with. I'd like to know just how close some of those challenges really are.

Gretchen was in the running for BvsW with her daughter, and said she was disappointed they weren't picked. She thought her daughter would have done really well and wanted her to have that experience. Would have rather seen them over Tina and Katie, but I've never been a Tina fan. I do think it would have been hard for Gretchen to adapt to new school Survivor. She, and the rest of Pagong (minus Joel) wanted to play the game survival based and fair. Look at how their votes were all over the place in the first two merge boots. In the post Gretchen vote ep, some of the Pagong members were even talking about the Tagi alliance and made comments like 'if you want to play that way.' I don't know how Greg would do nowadays. I'm intrigued, but I also think he was more about the survival based aspect, too, and playing the character. I do think he could have been a challenge beast had he lasted, which is why they got rid of him. He was supposed to go before Gretchen, except he won that immunity. Which means Kelly probably would have ended up winning the season, because I don't believe Gretchen would have voted for Rich (especially after Sue's speech). Rich would probably study hard, as I doubt he'd want to crash and burn early. I don't know if he'd come in over confident, or if he'd stand back and hope he's being underestimated. It'd be interesting how he'd do, and what his tribe mates would think of playing with him. As for Kelly, she hated playing with an alliance the first time. It seemed like mentally she took a beating. She's outdoorsy, so I can get why she was more focused on the camp life aspect. I can also see her not giving into "my second chance!" story line that the castaways are forced to talk about in every TH and convo with Jeff. Seeing Kelly again was strange. Off the Survivor radar, then came back but barely campaigned to even her a second chance, invisible during the season, then gets into a thing with Joe and tried to pursue a new show and is embracing the limelight (sort of), and now she's back off the grid again.

Besides Gretchen, the only other person I can see them inviting back from Borneo would be Greg. We've already had a good chunk of the cast (Hatch, Sue, Rudy, Kelly, Gervase, Jenna). I know they've asked Colleen, but she's always turned them down, and seems to have completely moved on from anything involving Survivor. But I don't know if we'll see anyone else from this cast again, besides Hatch. I would actually be curious to see him play again, with how much the game has evolved. During the first season, he was the only one besides Joel that seemed to know that this wasn't going to be just survival based. Yet, he used the survival based approach as another form of strategy, whereas everyone else just did it because they had to. Somehow, I think Gretchen would probably be invisible. It seems like old school players, especially those playing for the first time so many years later, are still stuck in what Survivor use to be. When Gretchen first played, she thought it was going to be more based on the survival approach rather than backstabbing, lying, and manipulating.

Between this and JT's blunders this past season I feel like that's an insult to turnips. I've been re-watching this season, and am up to the merge part, too. I won't lie that I've re-watched (many times) JT writing the letter to Russell, Russell giving the sad face to him and Colby at the RC, and then Russell, Parvati, and Danielle laughing about it back at the villains beach (with Parvati throwing in some of her own comments to the letter). It was especially fitting that the 3 men and their egos at the Heroes beach thought this was such a smart idea, making Survivor history, not thinking how it could possibly go wrong, while Amanda and Candice knew that this might not be the smartest idea. But of course you weren't going to get JT, Colby, and Rupert listening to the 2 women. Seeing the Heroes crash and burn in spectacular fashion was such a big highlight this season. I don't think it would have been nearly as good had they dominated.

Michaela's boot came out of nowhere. The show typically at least puts someone out there as being in trouble. Andrea's boot wasn't terribly surprising, but Michaela? While she had been at odds with some of her tribemates, it seemed like she had fallen off the radar. I can see why they booted her, but it just seemed to come out of nowhere.

Darnell I think.

So in terms of challenges, I've been binge watching old seasons and it's gotten me nostalgic. One of the Outback challenges was sort of like a puzzle, except there was more strategy involved than just putting pieces together (of the same old puzzle). The castaways had to go, one at a time, and rope off sections of a course. Once you formed a square you earned a point. The only thing I didn't like was that if you earned a point, you go to go again, and Keith pretty much ran with the challenge as a result. Still, it might have been more strategic if people still went, one at a time. I also liked the boomerang challenge where they had throw one and get it as close to the center of a circle as possible. I know other seasons have done variations of that (Borneo had a bow and arrow). While not the most exciting, it's still a nice change of pace, and doesn't really rely on brains or brawn as much as it does just luck.

There are only 18 contestants though, unlike last seasons 20. And there's bound to be a 2 hour double elimination episode as it is. Maybe someone gets medevaced or quits so it doesn't interfere with the boot order. Of course that's also wishful thinking, because the Andrea/Michaela boot ep was a mess.