Tatum

Yes, Catelynn and Tyler are lazy people. Like, extremely lazy. I've been watching early Teen Mom reruns, and two stand out for me- when Tyler said he couldn't figure out which classes he needed to get his "social work" degree so he decided to just sit the semester out. Um, take basic generals then? Most degrees have a core requirement that does not relate directly to the intended major. Colleges do that intentionally to ensure a well rounded education Tyler. And most colleges will work with you if you want to transfer credits, particularly generals. The second incident was when Cate was applying for a job and they told her to bring in a resume. Yeah, I never completed a resume for a cashier job, but anyone with a computer and internet access could google "sample resumes" and copy the format, and I would have done that had someone asked me to in order to get the job. Cate just saunters in and tells the manager, yeah, I was told to bring in a resume, but I don't have one, so...yeah... I do like Catelynn, but between her dependence on Tyler and her complete lack of work ethic, I don't see her ever making much of herself. Hopefully she is saving all her appearance fees and Teen Mom money so she can at least provide for Nova when the checks stop coming.

Yeah, I would be interested to know what was discussed between Tyler/Catelynn and Brandon/Teresa. If Dawn made a bunch of promises to the kids on behalf of Brandon and Teresa, I would definitely agree that Dawn was like, criminally wrong. From the reviews this organization gets, I can believe this is possibly true. A lot of birth mothers say they were lied to regarding their rights after the adoption was final. But, if Brandon and Teresa directly made promises to T/C, I would say they have moral obligations to fulfill them, even if they aren't legally obligated to do so. (Obviously, we aren't privy to all conversations between the foursome and both Tyler and Cate also have obligations to not disregard any restrictions B/T impose, such as publishing pictures of Carly online). I feel so dirty, I am one of the one of the ones who finds him really attractive. Some days he looks better than others. He could possibly be the guy that loses his hair in his late 20s/early 30s though- that will probably kill any attraction I'd have because I don't think he could pull off the balding look well. But, different strokes for different folks. Farrah's ex was pretty good looking but most of the dads from 16 and pregnant are seriously fug. Ryan definitely stands out to me.

I agree with all of this. I have always found Ryan extremely attractive, even if that's pretty much all you can say about him that is nice. I am sure whatever girl he is dating probably is on hormonal birth control- it wouldn't surprise me if Ryan insisted on watching while she took it. He definitely does not seem like he wants any more kids any time soon. Ryan has a had a few nice moments with Bentley sprinkled throughout the years, but I've never seen him do anything particularly sweet within a romantic relationship. He did jump on Maci that one season for upsetting Dalis (when Maci wrote on twitter that it's much easier to co-parent when you're still with your partner, or something to that effect) but I took it more as, when Dalis gets upset, she bitches to me about it, and I don't want to listen to it, vs an honest concern for Dalis's feelings. Ryan seems like he just wants to do whatever he wants to do, and doesn't want to hear any kind of criticism, even if it's meant to help. I'm going to hell for this, but I did wonder how 16 year old Maci landed Ryan in the first place (I mean, I'd say lookswise, he's pretty far out of her league). Sure, he's an ass, but we say that watching a 25 year old man who lives at home , is marginally employed, is terrible to his ex, and stomps off in a huff whenever he's called out for bad behavior. A teenage girl seeing Ryan when he was 18-20 isn't going to have that benefit of hindsight.

Several years ago, Catelynn posted a picture of her homework to instagram or facebook or something akin to that, and it was pretty surprising. It wasn't exactly like "match the picture to the word"- but it was some kind of seat work that looked more appropriate for the 6th grade. I wish I could remember what it was. Anyways, at most colleges, you have to take placement tests, and if you don't score high enough to get into the introductory classes, you have to take these prep courses that cost the same as the "real" classes and take the same amount of time, but don't actually count towards your credits. I'm wondering if maybe Catelynn tested pretty low and had to take so many prep courses before getting to basic generals that she got overwhelmed and quit. I do think Catelynn is lazy but maybe schoolwork is also more challenging to her than most .

If I recall, it was discussed on TWOP that Bethany Christian (the adoption agency Catelynn used) has frequently come under fire in other cases where they were less than honest/forthcoming with the bio parents about the rules of open adoption, and also making sure the bio moms (and dads) understand their rights. Maybe I dreamt that though.

From the excerpt on the previous page: How did this chick get her associates degree? Regardless of what field you study, doesn't every degree require at least one basic English/composition class?

Nothing gets facebook likes more than posting pictures of a cute kid. For a guy that counts his "likes" posting a picture of a kid to get FB attention probably does raise his spirits. ETA: I was mostly kidding. But even if there is some truth to this statement- if you were to list all the reasons Tyler needs therapy, my theory wouldn't even make the top 10. Maybe not even the top 20.

I've noticed too that Ryan seems more combative when he's in a serious relationship with someone (and not looking to get out of it). Hard to say what comes first- is he more combative because Maci starts pulling more passive aggressive stunts when he's in a relationship, or is he just ruder to Maci when he's with someone else? If it's the latter, I don't know if he does it to impress his girlfriends or not. I kind of suspect that whenever Ryan and Maci are between relationships, they hook up with each other. If that's the case, then it behooves Ryan to treat Maci a little more nicely if he's going to proposition her after a night of drinking.

I don't know if it's so much that Maci still wants Ryan (I mean, yes, he's attractive, but he doesn't have much else to bring to the table and she's already gotten to ride that pony a few times) or if it's just that she can't stand the fact that he clearly doesn't want her. If Ryan were to profess his love to her, I think she would happily walk away, reassured in her knowledge that she was the dumper, not the dumpee, and that she could have had him if she wanted him.

Eh, I have a theory on Lip. The only two people we've seen him profess his love to are the professor and Karen. While they couldn't be more different, they both had something in common- they never acted like they needed Lip (in fact, Karen pushed him away when he told her he loved her). While both are more than willing to fuck him, quite enthusiastically, they have both given him the impression that he could disappear the next day and they would go on about their business. Mandy and Amanda, meanwhile, were hopelessly clingy, and Mandy had the added unappealing trait of being needy, like she was counting on Lip to save her. If there is one thing that repels Lip, it's the idea of someone outside of his family being dependent on him. Looking back, even before it was obvious that Amanda was developing strong feelings for Lip and getting jealous of the professor, their friendship, or rather arrangement, was always kind of one sided. It was always Amanda who was coming to see him, Amanda who was offering to do him favors, or Amanda asking him for a favor. I never thought Lip loved Mandy but at least he seemed to have some affection for her, and did instigate contact with her of his own accord. Lip seemed to regard anything with Amanda as a business transaction. Amanda is pretty abrasive and overbearing so I can see why he didn't have strong feelings for her or seek out her company, and she totally set herself up for this problem, but I still felt so sorry for her. I think we've all been there (perhaps not punching someone or publicly yelling at them) but just the point where you realize that you like someone a lot more than they like you. Worse yet is when you confront them about shitty behavior (like in Amanda's case, the fact that he just left her in his room without a word) not only are they not sorry, but they're just hoping that you're mad enough to leave them alone and spare them the awkward break up moment.

You'll get no argument from me that Gus was beyond stupid to propose marriage to someone he'd been on one date with. And he may not have known everything about Fiona's family and legal trouble, but he knew enough where he should realized he had to proceed with caution. But, after the bad decision he made led to the inevitable fallout, he took his time on tour to lick his wounds, but he still stayed in touch with her and asked how everything was going. The only "cheap shot" I think he's said was in response to her laying a guilt trip on him for leaving her for 5 weeks and it was well deserved. Gus has handled things way more maturely than Fiona. I could give Fiona a pass for the Steve/Jimmy incident. It was wrong, but still, I could see how it would happen. Where Fiona absolutely loses me is showing up at the cafe to talk to Sean, as a way to hedge whether or not it's worth telling Gus she doesn't want to work things out. The decent thing to do would be to decide that since she does love Sean (or at least thinks she does this week) that she needs to cut Gus loose, whether or not things work out with Sean. But she's not. She's making sure Sean will be waiting in the wings before she ends things with Gus, and if Sean tells her that he doesn't want to be with her, she'll go back to Gus and say she wants to work things out. And then she'll continue to flirt with Sean and feel conflicted, or along will come another guy who "gets" her and the cycle will start all over. Fiona is being very selfish, just like she's been for the last two seasons.

I know! I am so bored with Lip and Fiona's romantic or sexual exploits. it's the same damn thing over and over. Decent people (well, perhaps decent is a stretch, but people who honestly care about Lip/Fiona and have unselfish motives where they are concerned) will try and get involved with these two, only to be used and forgotten, while people who really don't give a shit about them are chased after and idolized. Both of them just deserve whatever they get at this point. And I'm really sick of both Fiona's boss and Lip's professor. But honestly, Fiona doesn't deserve Gus and Lip doesn't deserve Amanda so I guess they should just stick with their bad choices and let the chips fall where they may. I can't decide how I feel about Debbie trying to get pregnant. On the one hand, it's really stupid, not to mention completely shitty to a guy who has been nothing but kind to her. Tricking him into teenage fatherhood because she wants an escape from her dysfunctional family is both incredibly selfish and naive- hasn't Debbie ever watched 16 and Pregnant? Her boyfriend's sister in law way glorified teenage parenthood and her case is by the exception, not the rule. That said, Debbie has been taking care of kids that aren't her responsibility for most of her life, and I can kind of see how she feels she is ready for motherhood and that her boyfriend, while dragged in unknowingly, would eventually feel the same. That sister in law really should have reconsidered her words before talking to an impressionable 14 year old from an unstable family. And what was the point of buying both a pregnancy test AND Plan B? From what I know, Plan B is just supercharged birth control, meant to take the day after unprotected sex. If you get a positive pregnancy test, you're way too late for Plan B. And since she already HAS birth control (from when the doctor gave to her with Fiona) she won't need Plan B for any future encounters.

Eh, I think Tyler and Catelynn would do it for free.

That was creepy when she showed up at the beach where Ryan and family were vacationing with Bentley. And she probably did it to scope out Dalis, Ryan's girlfriend at the time (if I recall, she actually invited Dalis-alone- to come out with her and her friends that were at the beach with her). In Maci's defense though, I think she just showed up to say hi to Bentley and then was planning on spending the rest of the day with her friends, and the pee thing happened when she was handing him back to Ryan. I don't think she was like, going to sit in a chair and watch the family or anything. I've not been impressed much with Ryan's parenting. He is a lot like Teen Mom 2 Jenelle- he wants to show up, play with his kid for a bit, then when he gets bored he wants to hand him back to someone else and go on about his business. I think he cares about Bentley and enjoys his company- but at his own convenience. I can see him saying down the road that he'd rather take on the role of the "fun uncle" than that of the dad.

I agree with all of this. It's sad, but in my own personal life, I have seen men whose parenting skills (and enthusiasm for parenting) are directly tied to their feelings for the kid's mother. Those that don't like their exes don't make as much effort as those that do (this is not to say it's a universal thing- plenty of single parents will slog through oceans to be there for their child even if they despise their ex, I am only talking about a small subset of parents and I think Ryan falls in this category). What really annoys me about this theory is that Maci- while perhaps obnoxious, is truly the only fly in the ointment in Ryan's experience of young, single fatherhood. He doesn't have to work two jobs in order to pay rent for a shitty apartment and keep a beater car in gas and insurance. He doesn't have to have uncomfortable conversations with a jerky boss about missing work because his kid got sent home from school/daycare with pinkeye. He didn't have to give up his plan to go to college. He doesn't have to work all day, then try to write a paper at night while keeping his kid entertained. He doesn't have to watch all his friends going out and having fun while he is stuck at home watching the Backyardigans. He doesn't have to stay up all night with a vomiting kid who also has diarrhea. I could go and on. I get it. There is literally no mom on either incarnation of Teen Mom that I would want to be stuck with forever (and that goes double for the dads). But does Ryan remotely appreciate how easy he has it compared to other people in his situation? I think Larry and Jen are nice people, but they really failed in raising a decent, productive member of society.

Even if Maci had sworn off sex forever after getting pregnant with Bentley, and had never dated another guy after Ryan, I find it absolutely laughable that of all the questionable, or downright illegal things people on this show (including Teen Mom 2) have done, Farrah being a porn star is the thing that Maci is zeroing in on. Maci is the one slut shaming now. Hey Maci, Farrah's not going to like, be backdoored during reunion specials or anything. Bentley won't have any way of knowing what it is that Farrah has done unless you tell him. I don't think her porn life is going to have any possible influence on him. And you're fine with him being associated with a show that has multiple drug addicts, drunk drivers, people that smack their partners around in front of their kids, etc., but what Farrah did (legally) off camera is that upsetting to you? If Maci, Catelynn, and Amber want to band together and say, Farrah is an obnoxious asshole, we dread all events where we have to deal with her, and we don't want her on the show, I could totally get behind that. Using her porn career as the reason just doesn't sit well with me.

To me, there's a big difference between understanding that any celebratory event in your kid's life will likely involve your ex, and that you'll occasionally have to suck it up and deal with it for one day, and having to argue back and forth with your ex daily or weekly on any issues that come up regarding your minor child. This is particularly true if your ex is vindictive. My friend is a single mother and her ex goes out of his way to be difficult. I'm sure she'd much rather have to sigh and smile politely from across the room at him at a church or reception hall than spend 20 total hours haggling with him over their holiday plans for their son in the days leading up to Thanksgiving (she wanted to go out of town, he insisted he needed to see their son on that Friday because it was his day), only to find out, after she cancels her travel plans, makes alternate plans for herself that Friday, THEN he says he'll be busy that weekend after all and she can take him. True story. I don't think anyone is looking forward to their kid turning 18 as much as my friend is.

See, I think Maci is just very immature. She seems pretty much stunted at 17-18 (about when Teen Mom started). I mean, this was one of the few girls on the 16 and Pregnant series, who, upon getting pregnant, was like, wow, I better get my ass in gear. She took extra classes to graduate early, she was working to save up some money, etc. And there seems to be such a vast difference in Teen Mom S1 Maci and what Maci is now. One of the biggest problems I can see is that she surrounds herself with Yes People. And unlike Farrah and Jenelle, Maci is tolerable enough (and provides enough benefits, like paying her friends' rent and vacations) that she's not constantly alienating people- unlike Farrah, who had a new "best friend" every episode, because even TV time for the biggest famewhore in the world wasn't payment enough to put up with Farrah for long. So, at any given time, she's got a group of long time friends who are telling her she's right and egging her on to confront Ryan with her pearls of wisdom. Her parents occasionally give her good advice, but seeing as how she hasn't needed them either financially or for babysitting for a number of years, she's not forced to listen to them. I do think after Maci's 15 min are up (which, granted, those 15 min have lasted way longer than I would have predicted 5 years ago), and Maci has to buckle down and work for a living (because you know these girls aren't thinking longterm with their current salaries and investing/saving appropriately), and her friends get married and have their own kids and mature themselves, Maci will eventually revert back to the way she was before the cameras, and grow up.

I don't think that particular conversation was so much about not upsetting Ryan, but rather a twist on, you get more flies with honey than vinegar. I think what Jen was saying (in this particular regard) is Maci has so frequently lectured Ryan on his parenting and criticized him that of course Ryan is not the least bit interested in going over to her house to sit down face to face and hear more about how he's a shitty dad who cares more about going out than spending time with Bentley and how he's setting Bentley up for years of therapy on why his dad doesn't love him enough. Jen is suggesting that if Maci truly wants to get through to Ryan, she needs to go about it in a different way because her previous methods weren't working.

You're right, she spanked him, she wasn't beating him. But I still think the line, "he was ruining her fun so she took him to the ladies room and beat his ass" is very funny, even if somewhat misleading. Maci did look like she was gaining some weight in one of the more recent seasons (and by gaining weight I mean she looked to be size 2-4 instead of a 0 or 00), but yeah, she does have a very slender body type. I was so jealous in the series premiere of Teen Mom when Maci and Farrah had babies under 6 months and were incredibly slender.

I could definitely see that, particularly with Eva Marie. At least Nikki has a background playing competitive sports and seems to enjoy her job with WWE. Eva Marie would clearly rather spend her time prancing around between photo shoots while people tell her how pretty she is. Eva Marie is just an idiot. Every time she speaks she sounds so stupid. When that guy from the Talent dept was on the phone and asked who approved the photos, she was like, um Jonathan? My husbandger? I hope her 15 min are up soon. I don't watch WWE but husband does and he says she hasn't been on much lately. I would love it if she was off the show altogether, and took Nattie and Ariane with her. I am tired of hearing about marriage drama, family drama, body image drama, etc. Even though I don't really like WWE, I think it's interesting when the show focuses on the WWE itself- the traveling, the workout regimens, the background behind the ring storylines, etc. I really don't care about the drama in their personal lives, particularly when so much is made up, like when Nattie freaked out about eating a pot brownie. Also, I could not stand being in Paige's company for more than a few minutes. She is just way too OTT. I get that Eva's husband is thinking that financially, Eva is making more money from endorsements and modeling than the WWE income. But she is GETTING those endorsement and modeling jobs due to the WWE association, so Jonathan should really reconsider encouraging Eva to tell WWE to fuck off when they tell her she needs to run things by them. On the other hand, I'd love to see her fired, so I take that back, Jonathan, keep telling her to ignore her boss.

Based on Maci's conversation with her friends (involving telling Ryan that's he's "important"), I am guessing what she is claiming to be her beef with Ryan relying on Larry and Jen for most of the childcare is not that Bentley is being neglected, but that Bentley may grow up thinking something is wrong with him because his dad would rather dump him at the grandparents and do his own thing. I don't know how Bentley feels about the whole situation, and I certainly wouldn't bet the houseboat that that is truly the root of Maci's grudge, but I think that is what she's claiming is her concern. What I find interesting is that Jen and Larry have always seemed pretty indulgent of Ryan and it looks like both his parents were visibly annoyed with him and Larry looks to be having some kind of meltdown in the previews. Also, I know why Ryan was reluctant to meet with Maci as he likely knew it was just going to be a lecture about all his shortcomings, but I absolutely can't stand it when someone says they don't have time to do something, as an excuse not to do it. Particularly in Ryan's case where he has lots of free time. He should have just said, Maci, I suspect you want to sit me down and tell me what a shitty dad I am for reasons I don't agree with, and I am not interested at all in setting up an appointment for that.

I think that too, but it would be really nice if her stupid friends weren't always telling her how in love with her Ryan still is and how every fight they have is started because Ryan is jealous of whatever boyfriend Maci has at the moment. That one brunette in particular is always smirking about how Ryan is not over her, which Maci always denies, but with this smug little smile on her face, like, go on, tell me again how this guy is in love with me. Really, her friends are the biggest part of the problem.

She bothers me, but she's the only one I can consistently watch. When Farrah and Amber start raging and squawking, I have to fast forward the scenes. Cate can be interesting but a lot of her storylines are depressing or uncomfortable to watch. Even if Maci is being a bitch, at least she's still capable of speaking in a normal voice. Bentley is bratty, and Maci is lazy, but she's the only one of the OG moms who seems to actually enjoy her kid. Amber and Farrah only do when it's convenient for them. Plus, I'm not afraid to admit I still find Ryan foxy, so there's that bonus to her storylines. While Maci usually does cause drama in her communications with Ryan, I am wondering if she's not a little bit justified in this case. I'm still not exactly sure what the problem is, but Ryan's own parents seem like they understand where Maci is coming from, and those are two impartial observers if there ever was one.

I only watched the first few minutes then had to get to bed, but I don't know if I can stomach the reunion. I got as far as Sarah saying her big check speaks for itself, and something about how her mashed potatoes were able to help her win (assuming she's referencing an insult from the Banany/Nia camp in Norway, which I fast forwarded through), and Nia snits that it probably took her all day to come up with and practice saying that one. God, shut UP Nia. You acted like a complete psychotic asshole the entire second half of the show, took to your twitter or blog or instagram or whatever the kids are calling it these days, to apologize, and then come back and show you haven't learned a damn thing. Please Murray- don't bring her back.