Tatum

Yeah, their policy is weird. In RW Seattle, RW Las Vegas (original), and RW Sydney, the housemates were sat down and had to go around the room in a circle and say if the cast member was allowed to stay. Las Vegas Brynn and Seattle Stephen were allowed to stay, Sydney Tricia had to leave. But in Extreme Challenge, RR South Pacific, RR Latin America, and whatever that challenge was where Tina hit Beth (and I use the word 'hit' loosely, Tina couldn't throw a decent punch despite all her tough girl posturing), and The Ruins- Ayanna, Abe, Gladys (I think it was her?), Tina, and Tonya all got sent home, despite the protests coming from some of the castmates. When Ayanna hit Christian on the Extreme Challenge, he went to production and said he didn't feel threatened by her and asked if she could stay, to be told that for liability reasons she could not. I thought it was interesting in Susie's essay on sexism in B/M world she gave the impression that was being sexually assaulted by Ace during the Inferno 3. While Ace did jump into bed with her after she told him to leave, the impression I got while that season was airing was that it was more that he was pranking her vs a sexual thing. But, innocent intentions or not, that's a pretty dubious area when someone jumps into bed with someone else after that person has asked him or her to leave. Susie hit Ace a couple times and neither one was kicked off the show, although I think Abe (not Ace) and Bananas did lobby to get her kicked off for hitting. Their no violence and no sexual assault policy seems pretty fluid and open to change at any time.

I am a little mystified as to Fiona's coldness towards Chuckie. Sure, Sammi is annoying and I don't blame Fiona or the rest of the Gallaghers for not feeling any sisterly bonds with her, but did Fiona really think it was fair that Sammi just sit by and let her son be punished for a crime that Carl committed? None of the Gallaghers know about Frank's involvement in the bust, so it just looks like Carl tricked Chuckie into coming along as the unwitting drug mule and left him out to dry, and now a kid with limited mental faculties is sitting in jail without having any understanding of what happened to him. And Fiona is mad that Sammi called the cops on Carl? She can hate Sammi all she wants, but can she really expect Sammi to not try and protect her son? And can she really justify letting someone like Chuckie get sent to juvenile detention in Carl's place? The whole scene just pissed me off. Especially when Fiona snapped that Chuckie wasn't destined for greatness- oh really, Fiona, as opposed to Carl who was such a great asset to society? Also, Fiona and Vee kind of snickering over Chuckie's IQ results being read aloud was way uncalled for. I think Fiona has just been a huge bitch ever since last season when she started sleeping with Mike's brother. I really don't like what they're doing with her character. I wasn't into the Frank and Bianca scenes. While it was nice that he took care of her at the end, kind of frustrating to see a kindness displayed towards her that was far more giving than anything he's ever done for any of his kids. Although I guess none of his kids have wads of cash hanging out of their purses or the ability to write prescriptions, but he still seemed sincere at the end. Although it did annoy me that he totally glorified his lifestyle- while there is something to be said for stopping long enough to enjoy the fruits of your labor, I bet no one ever sat on their deathbed feeling like they didn't live because they never woke up naked in a crackhouse.

Well exchange "only friend" for "only male left I feel can beat me" and his temper tantrum makes perfect sense. But yeah, I guess in Bananas' world, he was the benevolent grandfather who "allowed" Sarah and Jordan to make it to the finals, rather than a player who didn't send them in during his ONE time as power couple (it was only once right?) because it didn't make strategic sense to do so.

Fresh Meat II is not the challenge she won, it's the original challenge in which she was featured. Her win came from Free Agents.

Ah, thank you. I was thinking Rachel and Veronica had won Gauntlet 1 and Inferno 1 together, but only Veronica is listed as the Inferno 1 winner. So, Veronica has three wins while Rachel has two, but Rachel's duel win was probably more profitable than all other wins. Guess I should not try and outwit Wikipedia. ETA: Some of those stats are pretty interesting. For the love of God, Aneesa, hang it up.

She won them though on pretty large teams, where the pie was split quite a few ways, compared to Laurel, who only won one challenge but as a "free agent" got to keep it all. But wait- unless I'm mistaken, both of Rachel R.'s wins were with Veronica, so she actually should be on there right? Besides Inferno 3 and The Island- what is the third challenge that Ev won? I'm actually surprised Bananas hasn't racked up more money. Between just Free Agents and The Island, that is close to $300K alone. I'm surprised Jamie from the original NOLA isn't on there. He won three challenges and I would think be over the $100K mark (since one was Battle of the Sexes which was only split three ways).

Jay and Jenna are actually not bad performers, but they have gotten lucky in a couple different ways, that they couldn't have predicted. One, while they're rookies, this season included the AYTO kids, which were considered the sub-rookies, since they came from an entirely different show and there is a hierarchy in B/M world. Second, the Wes/Bananas rivalry diverted a lot of attention from them. Besides looking at each other, Bananas and Wes were also after those that they felt were on the opposite side. Jay and Jenna were smart to stay out of that mess. On top of that, they did underperform in a few of the earlier games (but not poorly enough to be an automatic elimination contender) so were considered a weaker team which made them a desirable finals opponent, at least for Jordan and Sarah, which were a frequent power couple. Really, as much as we said they were dumb, they really played the game well, politically. They stayed out of every conflict (too often rookies hurry to align themselves with a vet which may be a temporary safety net but often backfires, like the idiots on The Island found out), and appear to be the only couple (who actually were a couple, as opposed to a one time hookup) that can work well together, and both seem to be decent athletes.

I didn't watch the Bananas squawking at the end, so I just assumed Jordan and Sarah's disagreement had to do with Jordan wanting to throw in Bananas and Sarah not wanting to out of respect for their friendship, and when Sarah was sighing and rolling her eyes, that was her conceding to Jordan that they would put Bananas in. I assumed that because, like you said, the guys in the couple always seem to have the final say, and in fact, Jordan declined Jay's proposal earlier this season without even looking at Sarah. Also, whenever Sarah and Jordan have had their little spats, it seems like it's always Sarah that approaches Jordan first with an apology, even though I think Jordan has been more the one in the wrong. It wasn't until I came on here that I realized Bananas was Sarah's choice, not Jordan's. And why would Jordan disagree with Sarah? There's nothing to be gained from ensuring Bananas makes the final. He and Nany aren't the best athletes, but they are consistently good- and they don't have any glaring weaknesses, such as Leroy's incompetence in the water, Nia's fear of heights, Jenna's food aversions, Jay's small stature, or, say, a missing hand, Jordan, which bit you in the ass the last time you went up against Bananas.

That makes sense, and certainly I could see why it would be preferable if they could convince the local pharmacist to just refill the scripts, but the alternate methods Debbie was trying- like trusting the Milkovich clan to get the right drug or dosage, or faking her own mental illness- seems a lot riskier than just admitting to the original doctor what Ian did. I'm sure he's not the first patient to have done so. This is such a heartbreaking story. Sammi is annoying, but what did Lip and Fiona think was an appropriate response? Let someone like Chuckie sit in jail indefinitely when he has no idea why? And I understand that there really isn't a low Frank won't hit, but using Chuckie- who is already a victim of extreme neglect and other issues- as a way to hurt Sammi was just unbelievably shitty. My understanding of drug laws are pretty minimal- would they really hold a minor in a jail like that? I mean, I understand it was a lot of heroin and he was sitting there with it strapped to himself, but shouldn't it be pretty clear that Chuckie is no drug lord mastermind? I think Sammi must be on some kind of assistance. They've never shown her working yet she's able to buy Chuckie McDonalds for nearly every meal and she does buy groceries for the Gallagher house. There's always food in the fridge and they always show her cooking pancakes.

Yeah, that is disgusting. I think after The Ruins, like 3-4 regular female cast members said they would never come back. I may have to pony up the cash to buy The Ruins (can't get it on Youtube) and re-watch but if I recall, there were no winners from that season (as far as likeability, not actual winners of the game). Was that also The Ruins (or maybe it was The Island) where they pranked Derrick who just wanted to lay around in his bunk looking at pictures of his wife and kid, and Derrick got mad and yelled at them and said to pick on someone else? That really made me dislike Derrick (who had previously been a favorite of mine) because he was the only member of the "in crowd" to realize how obnoxious they were, and instead of standing up for the other victims, he was basically saying, do whatever as long as it doesn't affect me. ETA: Thanks for the reminder. That may have been why I didn't like Sarah at the time, and why I didn't feel sorry for her when Katie threw her out. Actually, it was pretty smart of Katie. She couldn't retaliate against JEK, (anything she did would have led to a complete escalation and she was outnumbered) but she was probably smart enough to know that JEK wouldn't bother to stand up for Sarah if she picked on her- which they didn't- so Katie gets the satisfaction of revenge against at least one person who just sat and laughed while proving to Sarah that JEK didn't give a shit about her. Seriously, how hard would it have been for anyone else in that room to be like, hey Katie, Sarah didn't do anything, leave her alone? Not very hard, but I guess it was more effort than Kenny felt like expending.

Was The Ruins the season where Katie was walking around the bedroom, drunkenly ranting while swinging a toilet plunger around, and then kicked Sarah out of the room for laughing at her? And then everyone sat there silently and only defended Sarah after Katie had left? That episode was notable to me only because I remember I sided with Katie at the time because I couldn't stand Sarah, and now I can't remember why I hated Sarah. It was not because she had a crush on Kenny. I mean, that was annoying, but that's not why I didn't like her. Yet, looking back, Katie was totally out of line to treat Sarah like that, whose only crime was to smile at a drunk swinging a toilet plunger around, and I didn't even like Katie. Sarah must have done something really annoying and I'm totally blanking on what, and I've liked her ever since the second Battle of the Seasons, when she volunteered to go into an elimination game with Chet just to prove to her team it was nothing to be scared of, and going in didn't mean going home. I thought that was cool. My pet peeve (well, one of many), and Susie is one of the worst offenders, is when someone talks a big game about how if they go into an elimination game, their dead body will have to be carried out because they are not going home and how they feel sorry for anyone who has to go against them- and then they spend the whole day/week leading up to the elimination game scheming on how to avoid it altogether. Either go in and come back, or admit you're afraid of being eliminated and don't want to go in.

I could see that. I think Johnny came off as very likeable in the beginning. In fact, I used to read his myspace blog (obviously, many years ago) and he was really funny. And I defended him during Key West when other posters said he was mean to Paula (the incident involved Paula insulting him, sabatoging him when he was flirting with other girls, and just generally being a pest until finally he snapped and told her off and then he was the bad guy because Paula started crying). Although you could see a few shades of misogyny in Inferno III (like telling the girls on his team that they shouldn't come on the shows if they don't want to "have fun" in response to the girls complaining that the guys busted into their room and jumped in bed with them, and claiming that since Cara had posed topless for a magazine she had no right to complain when the guys busted in on her and saw her topless), admittedly it was against people I wasn't too fond of (ahem, Susie) so I didn't really get too upset at him, and they were the only two incidents I remembered that was on the show that made him look unfavorable (I don't watch aftershows or get on Twitter or anything so I only know what airs in an actual episode). So, seeing him on The Island was pretty shocking. After that, there was just no liking him anymore for me. Whatever anyone else does or doesn't do that's worse or not worse- I just can't like him. I have no idea what made him act the way he did on that show, or if that was the real him all along. What bothered me most about The Island, in addition to his treatment of Ev and his treatment of the girls in general, was the way he shrugged off Paula at the end. I understand he did not negotiate that deal with Ev (believe that was Kenny), and that with the numbers working out the way they did (five people, Johnny, Kenny, Paula, Dunbar, and Derrick, and only four spots on the winning boat) someone was getting hosed no matter what, even before Ev won the final key. And of all the people in that alliance, Paula by far contributed the least and actually discouraged other girls from working on the boat, because "all girls know how to do is braid hair" and was just vile in general. That said, these two are friends, she believed she was in his inner circle and played the game based on that assumption, was completely hurt and devastated, and Johnny shrugged it off and basically said, hate the game, not the player, and made no effort (on camera anyways) to make things right with her. Even Kenny seemed pretty bummed at the end when he saw how hurt and upset Paula was. Yet she was Johnny's longtime friend and he seemed like he really didn't give a shit. It just bothered me, and this is coming from someone who thought getting tossed off the winning boat was completely deserved for Paula, who acted like a total bitch that season, and the one that followed.

I think she's loathesome this season. I also don't think letting a grieving friend sleep in bed with you means you surrender all rights to your body later. Matty was not smart to date a 13 year old. He was not smart to go to her house and get so drunk on homemade beer that he could not stay conscious. But that doesn't mean that Debbie wasn't the perpertrator here. And what I find so disgusting was that it was not even about sex to Debbie. Although she said later that she thought an erection meant he was for it- it wasn't about being a mutually beneficial experience for the two of them. It was about Debbie being able to check 'losing virginity' off her list, in a way that gave her complete and total control and autonomy over the situation. And I could maybe give her a pass about it after, if she seemed to feel the slightest bit of guilt about it, but it seems pretty clear that even though she freely uses the word rape, she doesn't really feel any guilt about it. When she was yelling at that guy, she's say's something like, I don't want to have to rape a guy to get him to want to have sex with me (I can't remember the exact words) but basically turning the whole thing into a joke, or like she's the victim for being so unfathomably undesirable to boys that she has to rape them to get laid.

His behavior on the Island forever ruined him for me, and this is coming from someone who had a TV crush on him during both Key West and Inferno 3 (I think it was Inferno 3- the one with Susie and the I HateTonya game, also where CT punched Davis). No, Ev may not have been physically scared of him, but by all accounts, he really went out of his way to torment Ev and just generally make her uncomfortable. In fact, if I recall, all the women, except Paula and Johanna, frequently complained about how uncomfortable he made them the entire time. I remember Kelly Anne lamenting that she dreamt Bananas was gone only to sadly wake up and find out it was only a dream. I also think it was hinted that he was especially obnoxious to Kelly Anne and Ashli after hooking up with both of them and his overall behavior was demeaning to them. Bananas came off to me as the kind of guy who pursues a girl relentlessly and then once he gets her, treats her like damaged goods not worthy of respect. If he has said he is ashamed of his behavior I am glad to hear it, and I will concede the last few appearances have been much improved. I do agree none of the above compares to almost killing someone while being filmed. After that incident, I think CT should never have been allowed back. Although I am sure he has his good points, I have never liked CT much.

It's unfortunately nothing new. It seems like every season a group of the girls gang up on one girl for being a "slut" despite the fact that none of the girls should be throwing stones, and the guy who was involved is sitting off on the sidelines, judgment free, laughing at all the silly women while all the men pat him on the back for being such a stud. The double standard on these shows is just maddening.

I actually think of the two Jordan is meaner, but from Theresa's perspective- she probably shrugs off most insults given by other women (you know, they're just jealous) but is super offended when a guy has a complaint about her.

It pains me to admit this, but Bananas is a solid competitor. And while he's not physically unbeatable, he IS a good athlete, he's good at manipulating people, and he tends to keep a cool head when he needs one. Sure, it's easy to say, yeah, this is his job, anyone that held the level of experience he does would have a good record...but that's not really true. Plenty of people have done this year after year and have either no wins or only one win. Bananas may not be the best, but he's decent, and he definitely maximizes his resources to their full potential. I did feel a little bad for Theresa when she started crying about being called a bitch. Mostly because it indicates that all Theresa's shit talking likely comes from extreme insecurity. I am sure "bitch" gets tossed around pretty frequently and Theresa certainly can't claim she's never said anything to deserve the title. For Theresa to be so rattled by someone calling her a bitch- someone that as far as we know she has no personal relationship with or ties to- she must really have low self esteem. Although he denies saying it, I do think it's funny if Jordan used himself as a barometer for what a bitch someone is. I kind of hope it's true. Nia is a damn idiot. She and Leroy want to bitch out whoever sends them into the dome, like the other teams just have no right to look out for themselves, fine, whatever. But to pick fights with all the remaining teams? Just a stupid move. As far as she knows, there could be one more dome fight and if she comes back, she just insulted every team and gave them an easy choice for who to send in, should it come to that.

I don't remember this scene at all, but I haven't watched every season of the Challenge. From the benefit of hindsight though, you can see Tonya's mental health declining from her first challenge appearance (the original Battle of the Sexes) to The Ruins. Even just by the trailers they were posting prior to airing the show (Tonya falling down drunk, crying, etc) it was clear she was not in a good place and I know she's an adult, but I wish Murray would have been like, yeah, you might be ratings gold, but I think you need a mental health check before you can participate on this show again. I am generally team Tonya when it comes to her conflicts with Veronica, but I actually thought Veronica was pretty restrained during this season as she was kind of ostracized by the cool kids as well. In fact, while they have never released what it was that Veronica said to Tonya, someone on TWOP who had an inside track said that he/she had heard that Veronica kind of got a bum rap for that incident. Supposedly Tonya told Veronica something she considered confidential (in a quiet voice) which Veronica loudly repeated in disbelief, not realizing Tonya wanted to keep it quiet (speculation was that it involved a miscarriage, abortion, or a previous sexual assault) since Tonya was not in the habit of confiding in Veronica. When Veronica repeated her, Tonya got mad that veronica told her secret. I have no idea if that's true, but that's one explanation I heard. Regardless, for Evan and Kenny to spend the whole time bullying and degrading Tonya and then turn around and blame Veronica for causing that breakdown was just maddening. Tonya was a hot mess before coming on to that season, and Evan and Kenny did their best to make it worse.

I don't know if it's ever been 50%, but all these challenges since probably Inferno 3 (2007) tend to be disproportionate with the 2-3 most recent seasons making up the majority of the casts, which, if you haven't watched the later seasons, they'll all seem like newbies. I just realized I haven't seen a RR cast member for awhile, but since the last season aired almost 10 years ago (after a several year hiatus), I guess that makes sense. Was the Ruins the last we saw of a RRer (Susie and Veronica)? I know Tori was on one with Brad, but don't remember if that was before or after the Ruins. Although they're frequently regulars now, I think the series jumped the shark with the introduction of the Fresh Meat concept. I can't believe I still watch this show.

They show the shadows of the two exile winners coming back to the dome, and I really don't think it could be Zach and Jonna. Actually, the girl shadow looked like Averey so I was wondering if they pulled it off somehow. But I'm guessing it must be Johnny Bananas and Nany. Like there was ever any doubt once those two were exiled which couple was coming back. The look on Wes's face though will be funny either way.

I was really excited when Zach sat Jonna down and explained to the camera, "I'm going to try and explain the root of my anger." I was like, yes, finally, why are you such a prick, please explain. And then all he did was act even more like a prick because Jonna wasn't falling over herself to excuse his prick-ness, but rather calmly listening and waiting for a rational explanation, which of course she did not get. I did not care for Jonna before this season, but I can respect how scrappy she is (seriously, I thought she had no shot at the sledgehammer and she did okay for having no technique and a delayed start), and I also appreciate how she did not immediately excuse Zach during his half asses apology like he was clearly expecting. Jordan and Zach are both such poor sports. Did anyone notice though- did Jay and Jenna make the same mistake as Sarah and Jordan? How were they able to untangle themselves? I thought Teej said once you were tangled, there was no way to compete. I'd rather see Zach gone than Wes, but I hate how smug Wes gets when he manipulates people. Leroy really should have sent Wes and Theresa in- either way, you get a strong couple eliminated, and given how Zach falls apart on a lot of missions, and sabatoges Jonna by yelling at her and messing up her concentration, they would be a good couple to compete against in the final. At a bare minimum, he should have told Zach that it was Wes who suggested Zach, so at least if Zach did come back, he would likelier be angrier at Wes than Leroy. I don't see what at all Leroy gained by insisting Wes had nothing to do with it. Nia's right, Leory sucks at politicking, but Nia wasn't willing to do anything about it so I guess they get what they get. And Nia and Leroy are ridiculous with this vendetta they have against Jay and Jenna. I loved Jenna's reaction to the whole thing. Those two are really growing on me. I mean, Leory and Nia were acting like Jay and Jenna should kiss their feet or something. It was really annoying.

I didn't say it happened because Tonya believed it happened, I said she believes it happened so she can't be lying (my post said she could be wrong, but not lying). My point was, regardless of what the truth is, I think Tonya believes it (vs. knowingly lying about it in an attempt to squeeze some money out of Viacom). From what I read, her accusation wasn't just that it happened, it was that it happened while being taped, and that no one, from the cameraman to the production crew, bothered to do anything about it and ignored her when she complained. If someone told her it happened in room A at time B, that should be easy enough to verify if they have that particular footage. As far as what the settlement "proves", you're right, it proves nothing, but Viacom's reaction to the whole thing makes me think there's some truth to the accusation. Tonya is either a victim of a serious sexual assault, or a mentally ill woman who mistakenly believes she is the victim of a serious sexual assault, and either scenario deserves more compassion than a public and official statement saying that Tonya is a drunken slut who can't keep her clothes on or her legs closed on a bet and therefore deserved whatever she got. I never even heard Murray Productions or Viacom ever actually deny that they had footage of this incident, which seems like the place to start for me to refute a sexual assault liability claim.

Technically, I think it was Viacom who said that. Also, I know I read somewhere that someone in production replaced the toothbrush in question- and that at the time, the owner of the toothbrush was considered the victim, not Tonya, in that little "prank". Perhaps that was never true, but I did read it. I do believe it happened, if only because it's not even a he said/she said- Tonya couldn't swear to anything because she was unconscious, so therefore she can't be lying (she could be wrong, but not lying). So there must be something that makes her believe this happened. Plus, if whoever clued Tonya in on what happened provided such an accurate time stamp for the incident that Susie could swear on her life that she was there and it did not happen, why could production not just produce the tape from that time period and show that no such incident happened? Legal issues be damned- if someone accused me of sitting back and watching while someone else was raped, I would want to show that was not the case, even if it was decided I did not legally have to (Viacom's defense for not producing the tape was that they were not legally obligated to turn it over). I mean, this appears to be such an open and shut case on the surface- alleged victim is not a credible source, and can't swear to anything anyways, other so called witnesses deny any wrongdoing, etc. I mean, this would be like a defense attorney's wet dream (if this case were to go to criminal court, which obviously it wouldn't). Yet, there was evidently some kind of shred of evidence that kept this case going.

Not only that, but it really isn't fair how the last team standing might not have answered the most questions correctly. Sarah was the first to go each round, so when she got her second strike, she was dropped and Jay and Jenna declared the winners, despite the fact that Jenna hadn't gotten her question that round right (yet) either, and probably wouldn't have. It's like in a spelling bee- if someone gets the spelling wrong, the person behind them isn't automatically declared the winner- he or she has to spell the word correctly in order to win. Had Jenna been in line ahead of Sarah, Sarah and Jordan could have easily been the winners. I would have loved to see Jenna have to spell "diaphragm". However, still pretty impressed Jay got erogenous. The spelling would have been hard for me. I'm a pretty good speller, but I need to see the word as I'm writing it. Spelling it out loud without that benefit while being suspended in the air would be hard. Although I don't think I would have gotten tripped up on libido.

I suspect with Averey, it's a situation where she's basically saying, yeah I did A and B, but I didn't do C and D, and Johnny thinks I did A-D and I must set the record straight, while the fact that she did A-B is enough for Johnny to not want to be with her and she's still insisting on clearing her name on C-D which is a moot point. Sometimes I like Averey but I think being around her all the time would just be exhausting. I'm sure that relationship would have ended eventually even without cheating allegations.