Tatum

I think that too. I know there have been reports that Maci, Cate, and Amber banded together and refused to do another season with Farrah, and I think Maci and Cate (not so much Amber) have clearly indicated while being filmed that they don't want Farrah on the show, but I just can't imagine these three strutting into the offices of 11th Street Productions, or MTV, or whatever, like they're the friggin cast of The Big Bang Theory (that all have lawyers and agents and resumes and know their worth), and approaching the higher ups with their demands. I think the choice to exclude Farrah was decided at a much higher level, and then they asked the other girls how they felt about it, and the other girls quickly agreed that the show would be better without Farrah. If that is how it went down, then I just can't see how this network can release a statement about Farrah not sending the right message with her porn career while keeping a straight face as they continue to film Jenelle on TM2. That's just maddening. And they certainly did- I believe they were negotiating terms with all the TM2 girls while filming TM OG. It wasn't like they decided at the same time that they weren't the Moral Police and that both Jenelle and Farrah could be included. I think 16 and Pregnant does an excellent job of showing the reality of teen pregnancy. The dad almost always checks out, the mom is overwhelmed, alienated from her old life, and struggles to keep up with school, pay for diapers, or even just stay awake. Even on the "happy ending" 16 and pregnants where the dad does stick around and seems to honestly embrace fatherhood and respects his girlfriend, the teen mom is usually just so beat down by the credits as she's realizing that even though she's fortunate (in comparison to other teen moms) that she has the support of her baby's father, this probably isn't the guy she wants to end up with forever, but she can't seem ungrateful because then he might leave and she'd be screwed. On top of that, she's still exhausted from work and school and frequently depressed about all the high school social events that she's excluded from now. And then when they do the update specials on the girls who weren't chosen for Teen Mom, the majority of them are working minimum wage jobs, have had another child or are currently pregnant, and school is something that is pushed way down on the priority list. Of course, then along comes Teen Mom, with their 6 figure checks and d list fame and other perks, and you have 23 year old women that are permanently stunted at an emotional age of 16.

God, shut UP Maci. I am so sick of all of her, "I'm not trying to sound judgmental, but...", or "I don't have any personal vendetta against Farrah, but..." followed by some judgmental, personal attack on Farrah. She's like the people that always preface whatever offensive thing they're about to say with, "no offense, but..." and then when you have the audacity to be offended, they're like, dude, I SAID no offense. Maci, you ARE being judgmental. You just are. And that's not a crime. But you can't have it both ways. You can't make judgmental comments about people and then cry and say you're not trying to be judgmental. Just say, I did not want Farrah on the show, for multiple reasons, which may not make sense to everyone, but it's how I feel. If MTV was going to lead me to believe she wouldn't be included only to change their minds after filming started, they could have at least told me off camera and not facilitated a confrontation between Farrah and me, because now it's really awkward. At bare minimum, production could have allowed me to have a private reaction to the news. I would respect that. But her constant backpedaling and her "I'm a nice girl who just has really strong feelings when it comes to protecting my son- as long as it's convenient for me" is really annoying.

You're right, Maci is being an asshole about the porn thing. However, when it comes to which slut shaming is worse- Maci vs. Ryan- I find it slightly less offensive to be against the porn industry as a whole instead of being against anal sex (when you're female- or gay-, as evidently sticking your dick in an ass is okay, just not being the receiver). I mean, you can dislike porn without being a slut shaming mysognist. Ryan is basically suggesting that any girl who would do anal (without similarly pointing the finger at the guy who's currently doing anal with her) is such a dirty whore that she has no entitlement to an opinion about anything. At least Maci could TRY and claim she would be equally against a male porn star coming on her show.

I'm sure Ryan would be down for anal, but it wouldn't surprise me if 30 seconds after he prematurely finished, he was on the phone with his stupid buddies, frat-ing about how he gave it to some dirty whore who likes it up the ass. I bet in Ryan's neck of the woods, being a straight female who has anal sex and being a gay man are equally contemptible. I can't believe I now despise Ryan more than Farrah AND Maci. Maci says a ton of shit that doesn't make sense, but at least she's never (to my knowledge) tried to claim that any person that does a certain sexual thing is not entitled to an opinion.

I get that. And while I hate that someone likes Jenelle gets a paycheck, I understand that she provides ratings, MTV is making money off of her trainwreck life, and she needs to be compensated for that. What just aggravates me no end is that they haven't said boo about a woman who has been arrested for drug possession multiple times, has physically assaulted someone on camera- more than once-, has abandoned her child, and yet they wanted to bring down the hammer on someone who was involved in porn? And THAT was crossing the line of good taste? I guess what did I expect from Viacom. This is the same company that when a female reality contestant accused another contestant of rape while on MTV's watch, Viacom's official statement was that whether or not the woman was raped wasn't their responsibility because she was basically a big slut who couldn't keep her clothes on.

Yeah, those tweets are not too impressive. I was pretty enraged though to see some tweet from Ryan that says anyone who's had a dick in their ass loses the right to say anything about anything. Hey Ryan- Farrah is a barely literate, shit stirring, delusional, ungrateful asshole. Go ahead and pick on her for any of the above. But plenty of successful, educated, hardworking people who contribute far more to society than YOU ever will have engaged in anal sex or any other kind of non vanilla sexual activity so shut the hell up.

On the previous page, someone posted a link about this. I didn't read it, but it appeared that the article said something about Cate, Maci, and Amber only agreeing to do another season if Farrah was excluded. I have no idea if that's true. The only thing I remember hearing directly from any of those girls is that Maci gave an interview (this is in 2014) saying that the powers that be felt that Farrah was not sending out the right message with her career endeavors, but that was a production decision and that opinion was not shared by the other teen moms. Maci actually expressed regret that Farrah would not be included. I believe this was during a Teen Mom 2 aftershow from last summer. I have a hard time believing that a 2014 ultimatum was given by Maci and the others. Maci, maybe, but I just really can't believe Amber and Cate would endanger their MTV paychecks and D list fame over whether or not Farrah returned. The vibe that I get from Cate and Amber is that neither girl likes Farrah, both were happy that she was initially excluded from filming, (because they don't like her) but neither was THAT worked up to hear that she was coming back and neither one was interested in lobbying that hard to get rid of her. Cate definitely expressed happiness over Farrah being ousted in an early episode this season. That said, when the producers told her Farrah was coming back, she said she thought that would probably happen. I have not seen anything from Amber within the show filming to judge how she feels about Farrah. Someone else posted another link that suggested Amber was not happy about Farrah returning, but I did not read it. It would surprise me if Amber cared that much, but there's a lot of conflicting stories and I don't know how much of it, or if any of it, is true. I'm not so worked up about Maci not wanting Farrah on the show. Maci is an idiot. I'm more annoyed with whoever the higher ups (either for Teen Mom, or MTV, or Viacom, or whoever made the final decision) that Farrah was bad for the show, but they continue to film Jenelle on TM2. I don't know how production sleeps at night giving someone like Jenelle a paycheck. At least Amber seems somewhat regretful for her illegal actions.

But the original quote was about their feelings about Farrah returning in general, not just what they indicated on the show. I'm saying, it is not accurate to say that just because they didn't pitch a fit like Maci, doesn't mean they weren't against it.

I'm saying, I don't think you can form an opinion on what Amber and Cate thought about Farrah returning based on what they said after it was already a done deal, and they knew there was nothing they do could to change that.

But you really can't make any assertions about these girls' character or motives based on what they said in one episode. All these girls are notorious for saying or doing something that contradicts something they said earlier or through another medium. I think Cate, Tyler, and Amber were being pragmatic when they shrugged off Farrah's return. They may not have wanted her there, but by the time it was brought to their attention, it was a done deal, Farrah was coming back, and they all knew none of them were going anywhere, so to make a big stink about something they couldn't control and weren't going to do anything about would have just made them look foolish (ahem, Maci).

I laughed so hard. Loving all the Amber-couch jokes. She's on a fucking reality show. She tweets about her personal business all day long. People have seen her high, slap her boyfriend around, have multiple meltdowns, show questionable parenting decisions, and read her tweets about her boyfriend cheating on her who also happens to be in recovery. I would have to imagine the average AA attendee would show a little more respect and compassion than the average fan that goes on the websites Amber updates regularly. I think she's full of shit and the anonymity is a convenient excuse.

Cate definitely seemed a little gleeful when telling April that Farrah was not invited back. However, at least Cate hinted that she was glad Farrah was excluded because she didn't like Farrah, not because Farrah offended her strict moral code. ETA: Stranger things have happened I guess, but this would shock me if it were true. I don't know that actual well known names get that kind of money, and sorry to say I don't think Amber would have been that huge of a draw. Maybe it was phrased that she would get a portion of the proceeds, up to $500K?

About the time I start thinking anything nice about Farrah, she ruins it by opening her mouth. I do think likely there is some trauma or abuse that happened in her past, but that doesn't mean she isn't still a complete bitch. Unlikeable people can be victims too. I think I'm presently more annoyed with Maci than Farrah not because I think Farrah is in any way superior to Maci (in that they both are obnoxious in their own ways) but Farrah seems like she's always called out for whatever she does while Maci is continually heralded as the Teen Mom Hero due to the facts that 1. she occasionally takes classes, 2. she's never been to jail, 3. She's never been shown on camera abusing either her kid or her partner, and 4. she can string a coherent sentence together with minimal grammar mistakes, and 5. when she's being snotty, she's passive aggressive about it, vs confrontational like Farrah, so people think she's nicer. Yeah, low standards, but I'm sick of hearing about how "amazing" it is that Maci is avoiding the traps of teen motherhood by going to school and not being on any assistance, and crediting it all to her hard work and morals. Yeah, Maci gets paid more money than most college educated professionals twice her age, and her "schooling" is little more than a hobby she takes up from time to time.

I am watching Maci's 16 and Pregnant again. I downloaded all four episodes from iTunes and I'm almost done with Maci, and just have Amber left. I was under the impression that Maci was actually pretty cool pre Teen mom, and the show (and the money) totally stunted her emotional growth. Yet, she was kind of a vapid bitch even in 16 and Pregnant. First off, I don't like anyone who refers to herself or himself as an "overachiever". That term to me is like workaholic- as in, a term you can use to describe others but should never be used as a self description. Plus, people who refer to themselves as overachievers or workaholics spend a lot more time talking about their work or accomplishments than actually doing them. Also, she's pretty smug in the beginning about how she deigned to date Ryan even though he rides 4 wheelers, which aren't cool, but he was so desperate to be with her that she agreed to date him. I still have to shake my head about that, because at the time of filming 16 and Pregnant, Ryan was living on his own, in a nice (rented) house, working full time as a diesel mechanic, and was totally foxy, and I think could have landed a better conquest than Maci, who at 15-16, was pretty plain jane. All of her friends in every scene are cuter than she is. I do think Maci has grown into her looks and is an attractive girl now, but wasn't that pretty as a high schooler. Looks aren't everything, but 18-19 year old boys can be shallow. Finally, she was bragging about receiving $800 in graduation money, and planned to blow $400 of it on a tattoo. She rationalized it by saying she had been planning on it for a long time, and when her mom suggested she had better uses for $400 for a tattoo, she's like, well, we've been talking about this for awhile so I can't back out now. Oh, and also, she worked super hard for 12 years, one of them pregnant, and deserved to do something fun. Maci gives herself way too much credit for completing relatively simple tasks. I agree with whoever said that "Bulletproof" tattoo, which is a pat on the back to herself for making it one year with a baby, is a total joke.

Yeah, at first I was ready to rant about the "incredibly hard worker" part, but when I got to the part about her radio show reaching "dozens" of viewers, I relaxed.

Wandering off topic, but I totally agree. My husband's aunt had a pretty fancy wedding for a second marriage when she and the groom already had a kid. And while she spared no expense on the white dress, she had a cash bar. I'm still annoyed. I feel the same about people who choose to get married at the court for whatever reason (a lot of times military), then have an elaborate wedding sometime later. Like, I get wanting a reception, but to actually buy an expensive dress, and have bridesmaids and say your vows in front of people when you've already been married for a year? I mean, your time, your money, but I'd feel pretty silly. I do think way too much emphasis is placed on weddings in general. For a lot of people in the younger generation, getting engaged becomes all about the wedding, not about the lifelong (supposedly) legal commitment you are making to someone.

Oh Farrah. Well, I wasn't there, and she was, but nothing in her 16 and pregnant episode indicated she had any romantic feelings for Derek, and in fact was flirting with some guy named Roberto and gleefully telling the cameras about how she was ignoring Derek's calls and had no intention of even telling him she was pregnant.

Maci and Ryan were engaged during the first season of Teen Mom, but I don't believe we got to witness any proposal on camera. And given Ryan's lack of interest, I'd be really surprised if much thought or romance was put into Ryan's proposal. Likely Jen picked out the ring and Ryan handed it to Maci while yawning. I don't know if Tyler proposed twice- I only saw one, but would not surprise me if he withdrew his proposal and then redid it at a later time. Farrah is still holding steady at 0. Although given her propensity for rewriting history, I'm a little impressed she hasn't implied that she and Derek were secretly engaged in high school.

I would love that. I would be curious about an update about Kayla from season 3 of 16 and pregnant (the anorexic from MN, not to be confused with the pageant Kayla from Alabama), and a few other girls who from the brief update specials, appear to be working or in school and have managed not to get pregnant again . I think the only way it would work is that each girl gets one season- sure, she might get a nice windfall, but not something she can count on to support her for the rest of her life. I forgot about Katie. I could not get into any of the TM3 girls. I'd sit down to watch the DVR'd show and about 5 min later give up and switch to something else.

Except for Farrah. Then the chances of her having ANY marriage is incredibly slight. Still, nice burn.

I don't know if they always did, but they've had it for awhile. I remember Kim called up B&T to pressure them into coming to Tyler's graduation. If I recall, Cate was pretty flabbergasted that Kim even had that number. Wait- now that I think about it, on Cate's 16 and pregnant episode, Cate calls up Teresa to tell her she's being induced. Now, maybe she called an 800 number that was routed to Teresa, but she has called her before. I think maybe they always had a phone number but didn't have an address? Mail is usually sent back and forth through Dawn.

On just Teen Mom, or including Teen Mom 2? Aubrey has it pretty good. Her dad has been arrested for drunk driving but he's pretty much a non entity in her life at this point. If we're counting drunk driving as legal issues, then I believe Ryan has also been arrested for drunk driving. Someone correct me if that is wrong. I think Maci and Chelsea are a lot alike in that they both grew up in upper middle class, supportive families, both probably always wanted to be young moms (perhaps not high school young, but young), deeply enjoy their kids, and don't really have a lot of ambition or drive for a career outside of the home, even before the TM money came along. I think Chelsea seems a lot nicer than Maci though. Maci comes across every season as self absorbed and kind of snobby. I'm not sure that family can consider themselves winners either. His paternal grandmother went to the tabloids to air her dirty laundry when she was making noises about suing Farrah and also her first name is Stormie. Just sayin...

I'm sure he/she didn't. My point was, even if he or she did- or, didn't mean to imply it, but Maci honestly believed that's what he or she was saying- I would think anybody else in Maci's shoes would do a little more research. I really can't fathom Maci getting an infertility diagnosis (and I use that term loosely- my time on the baby boards has taught me that getting diagnosed with infertility is a long, multi step process with lots of testing), and merely shrugging her shoulders and canceling her birth control prescription. Given how desperate that chick was to get knocked up by Kyle, if a doctor had led her to believe it wouldn't happen, she would have been all over google looking for additional information and treatment options. I agree that "I didn't think I could get pregnant" is very much "the dog ate my homework" of the reproductive world. She knows she's going to get a ton of shit for not learning from her mistake the first time, so she's spinning it like it was beyond her control, and really, it was The Man Upstaris himself who saw it fitting to give her another baby, so who are we mere mortals to question his choice?

But it was a MIRACLE BABY! And you can't say no to that. Even if whatever quack Maci was seeing for a gyno did lead her to believe she would not be able to get pregnant without intervention (as opposed to her intentionally misrepresenting what he/she said), like you could convince us that as desperate as Maci was to get knocked up by Kyle a few years back, she wouldn't have sought out a second opinion or at bare minimum googled "can you get pregnant with PCOS?" and found out that she wasn't as SOL as she thought within 30 seconds? Ugh, the same girl who was screeching at Gary not too long ago that of course she can handle getting Leah ready for school because she's an amazing mom. All these girls, save for maybe Farrah, are just unbelievably lazy. Like, unbelievable that people with this little ambition or work ethic could actually exist.

Several seasons ago Amber was dating someone else, and someone on camera told her she needed to "slow her roll" when it came to getting serious with random guys and bringing them around Leah. Amber immediately freaked out, started crying, and told every mutual acquaintance the two girls had that this person had called her a bad mother, which was not exactly true. Was that person Crystal? I know it was a girl about Amber's age at the time.