Wellfleet

Good points. While I don't believe it's deliberate, the Gothard lifestyle - for lack of a better word - absolutely does burden children with adult responsibilities. At the same time the whole accountability-so-one-remains-a-virgin-until-marriage business treats adults, who are supposedly mature enough for a lifetime committment to another person, like five-year olds who can't be trusted to stay away from a plate of cookies while Mommy goes to answer the front door. Among Gothard followers, it seems pretty evident that only the older Duggar girls have been "stuck" raising their younger siblings, and of course this is completely due to Me-chelle. I haven't seen much of other "Gothard" mothers but from what I have seen, none of them are handing off six-month olds to their older sisters for all their daily care. It's my opinion that Me-chelle took what was initially supposed to be some temporary help - and manipulated it right and left, until she now has virtually no real responsibilities in raising her own children or running that house. Whatsoever. She may be the family "scheduler" but let's face it, anyone with a phone and computer could handle that. I believe if Me-chelle was abducted by aliens tonight, Boob would be the only person who'd be "negatively-impacted." Oh and yes, the aliens. They'd have to listen to that voice...

He may be better off praying for kids who are actually willing to care for him in his old age. It might be wishful thinking, but it's my opinion that it's just a matter of time before this whole crazy train pulls into the station for the last time. Don't know when, and don't know what may happen, but the numbers are undeniably working against him.

I'm certain Boob was thinking $$. "Why should I spend the cash when we really won't need it all that long - and the office chair has wheels which will work just as well?"

Smuggar is indeed disgusting. Not only in what he says, but it's so clear he isn't even writing this dreck himself. In general, people tend to write in the same overall manner as they speak - especially the way they speak in public. But with Josh Duggar, you get college speeches from a middle-school talker. So very lame...

Agree - she is much too kind to Me-chelle. I'm hoping she's planning an article on Me-chelle's whole deal for another time. But it absolutely sounds as though she watches the show. She makes numerous references to things that happened on various episodes.

Agree. God knows how they explain this kind of thing to the younger kids, all the kids really - if they even do. But last I heard "Thou shalt not bear false witness..." was still one of the Ten Commandments. Guess Boob already has a snappy answer for that though, if anyone asks...

Wow. This news makes me even more astounded that no one seems to be investigating or even just publicizing the Duggar link to Gothard's whole deal. Other than the tabloids, of course. Ironic - they finally say something credible and true, and it's difficult to get anyone to believe them.

No kidding, I was thinking this too. These people really are their own worst enemies, aren't they? Who among us would not jump at the chance to have a professional makeover? I completely understand setting some boundaries or stipulations - in my own case I don't think I'd like my hair dyed for example. But I would definitely pay attention to any advice and tips I was getting from the pros. It's called learning - and improving things - and changing, Duggars. And paying attention to people who just might know something that you don't know. If the whole world thought like the Duggars, we'd still be living like cavemen. Or worse.

Fully agree. I think James is one of the more thoughtful and articulate kids, in his own quiet, rather dry way. He's made me smile, even laugh, more than once for sure. If he was filmed for a TH, he probably provided far too much detailed information - or at least info that Boob did not want broadcast. And so James is relegated to the cutting room floor this time...

Have to agree. It does sound exactly like a future "plotline" was being filmed. And how pathetic is that too? Neither TLC nor the Duggars themselves can come up with anything better? That's actually genuine? Sorry, pitiful, lamentable, deplorable. This patient has been in a persistent vegetative state for far too long - time to pull the plug. *edited for emphasis

Agree - Jill will probably make no changes - at least not publicly. And for a number of reasons. A - this is Jill Duggar, Miss Perfect - and touted as such by her own parents and sibs, people who despite how much they love you are usually not likely to call you perfect. B - she's cared for babies for years. C - she's had training in midwifery. D - she's in her early 20s. Twenty-somethings don't yet know how much they don't know. Most 20-somethings think they have this Life thing nailed six ways to Sunday. In all reality she can't really be expected to admit at this point, "Yes, you know. I can see this now. The experts are right, I have been carrying my baby incorrectly..." That would take a fair amount of maturity from a normal 20-something, and we know Jill is far behind the average 20-something as far as emotional maturity goes.

Oh yeah, that's right, I forgot about that. Me-chelle's imaginary "missing" muscle. Oy. Just exactly how dumb does she think people are? She must have dreamed up some real dillies in her childhood, and as the adorable lastborn everyone did as they usually do with the lastborn - they played along. So now she thinks these lame stories actually work.

Well, one thing is a sure bet. If Josie does have epilepsy, it will never be announced. Not even now, after the seizure and its aftermath has been broadcast. Boob & Me-chelle will never admit that the Little Miracle is not just exactly that. Unless Boob can figure out some way to make $$ with it.

This is exactly what I thought as well. No doubt Cathy was there - and BTW, glad she felt up to it. No doubt some of the older girls were there. But no way was Me-chelle there. Me-chelle doesn't help anyone except Me-chelle. Maybe a 15-minute drop-in visit. Maybe. On her way to or from Starbucks. After all, anyone is capable of helping Jill. But HER time is really valuable. She's needed for all that critical scheduling back at the TTH.

IMO, Boob and Me-chelle sound detached in so many instances - because they are detached. Neither one of them, IMO, have a normal parental bond with their kids. Most of the kids, anyway. There may be a little bit more there with the six oldest kids - maybe. Many posters give Boob extra points for being the more-involved parent, and that's probably correct. But more involved than Me-chelle isn't saying a whole lot. For several years now, it's been my impression that Boob sees his children overall as financial commodities. Things to be traded, exploited, invested in, bought and eventually sold. When does he do fatherly things with them - camping trips etc? When they're being filmed. And when does he become emotional? When giving a daughter away. To Me-chelle, once she stops nursing, the children disappear for all intents and purposes. They're not her responsibility any longer and she is simply not involved, in any meaningful way, after that point. And as the seizure episode shows, all this is becoming painfully apparent - even to people who have never watched the show before, such as a few posters' husbands here. I think that point alone is significant. It's also becoming increasingly difficult for TLC to show Me-chelle as the same religious, homeschooling, tater tot-cooking, laundry soap-making SAHM that she started off - appearing as - 10 years ago.

Not just the kids. Sorry to say, but I truly believe if Boob had a heart attack with cameras present, TLC would show air it. Within weeks or months of its actual occurrence however. For some reason, it takes these bozos weeks and weeks to badly-edit just about anything. I have more and more respect for the broadcast news divisions - they can get things on with minutes.

For the most part, I think we posters are expressing our opinions or beliefs - and that's fine because it's usually made clear with an "IMO" or similar language. But when making factual or definitive statements, I agree 100% - posters should be citing sources. Or at the very least, indicating how they have come to have this information, such as doodlebug who is fully-competent to provide OB information since he/she is an OB.

Extremely interesting post. Provides a lot of pertinent background into the Duggars and why they could be the way they are. IMO, they definitely come off as believing themselves to be superior to the rest of us. And maybe it's just me, but I've always felt like people who work so hard to make others believe they're the best people in the room are usually really trying to convince themselves of that fact. Reminds me of Margaret Thatcher's line: "Power is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't..." People who have to keep on pointing out how wonderful they are, are in reality coping with some truly-serious inferiority complexes.

My mom was born in 1932 - she told me half the girls she knew grewing up were Helens, Bettys, Barbaras, Joans, Shirleys and Dorothys.

I followed these steps and was careful to "cut" rather than "copy" - but it didn't remove the post from here in the "European Honeymoon" thread. Just copied it to "Religion." So if a mod knows how to zap it here, I'd appreciate the help. Thanks.

Quote from GEML: The thing that's weird is that I'm not so sure that Gothard doesn't appreciate science and art himself. He is very well educated, and there is no getting around that he's an intelligent, and well read person. Charismatic leaders often are. True enough, but whether Gothard is well-educated or appreciates math, science, history etc isn't really the question here. By his teachings it's more than evident that he doesn't want his followers to value it. One element common to nearly all those who "found" cults is that they tend to isolate their followers, want to control most or all of what they're exposed to, and do not want to see them well-educated. The more educated people become, the more they tend to question the world around them. Ray Bradbury said "You don't need to burn books to destroy a culture - just get people to stop reading them..."

Thanks, msblossom. :>) Moving my post to Olf Time Religion...

Good point - how does one "move" a post? I'm clueless. Thanks.

Yeah, I just cannot see this happening either. Even if he could do the academic work, and thanks to the laughable homeschooling he received, I honestly don't think he could, I don't believe he has one single clue as to how much time and real effort would be required. It clearly is posturing for the camera/TLC. Josh might as well have said: "My plans have always been car lot to FRC, then on to med school..." Uh-huh.

Amen to that! And thank God for remotes and my friend, the Mute button.