Wellfleet

Yikes. If marfanoidism runs in Derick's family, I hope Izzy is monitored for this, since he was 23 inches on arrival. Or maybe Iz will only see a pediatrician when he's really sick and not for regular recommended care, vaccinations etc? She may have thought she didn't need an obstetrician's care for herself but I hope she'll think twice about a pediatrician, PA or nurse-practitioner for her own child.

This is true, IMO. From this perspective, Josh is certainly the most impacted by Gothard, simply by virtue of being oldest and having the ability to remember Life Before Bill. My point was that overall he probably has the most normal relationship with Me-chelle - maybe the only truly normal one - because he was first and came along years before they really started to gulp down the Gothard Kool-aid. But for me, the jury is still out on whether or not Josh is glad to have had the upbringing he did. I think he's been questioning nearly everything about his life since starting at FRC - maybe before that. Yes, materially he's much MUCH better off. He has a far better life than the average 25-year old white male with [maybe] a GED, no college or even vocational training, a SAHM/wife and 3-almost-4 kids. I think he is wondering What did I miss out on? Is this all there is? and What will happen, what will I do/have when the whole TLC deal goes away?

Thank you, Literata. I've also thought there was something off about Josie's eyes. Some kind of quality she's had since first being filmed in the NICU, and that I've never noticed with other preemies. Until now I thought it was just my imagination.

It was my understanding that Boob & Me-chelle did not go "fully Gothard" until they had 4 or 5 kids. That's why my comment was about Josh's earliest and most formative years. I realize he experienced a lot of Gothard goofiness, just not until he was older. Not to mention the poverty, a screaming SAHM, etc. But unless I'm off on the timeline, I thought his earliest childhood was "relatively" normal.

Good question! This kind of thing must certainly happen, at least occasionally. My own guess is that the Duggars, with their capacity for denial, handle it easily. They dismiss the source as the "godless heathens." They're secure in the knowledge God loves them, with their righteous ways, far more. And for dessert, they remember all the fawning complements that ooze from Leg-Humpers at every book-signing and appearance.

Agree about Josh being the only child with a real relationship with Me-chelle. Isn't it interesting that the oldest Duggar child, who very likely received the least - if any - amount of Gothard influence over his earliest years, is the one with the most real relationship? Hmmmm. Hey Duggars, maybe it's just possible that old, never-been-married, not-trained-in-psychology, never-raised-a-child Bill got a few other things wrong as well?

IMO, the longer Josh is at FRC, the more he's realizing what his parents have done to him - and all his siblings. I think there's a growing amount of resentment. Frankly I'd be really surprised if Baby Four is named Me-chelle. However, I'm continually surprised at what they'll do to remain in the public eye, even in the D-list way they do, so it definitely could happen.

All good points here. I cannot imagine myself married and home all day, by myself, without kids. I would go positively loopy. I'm sure I'd turn into Martha Fricking Stewart, cooking gourmet meals, handlooming my own bedsheets, gardening, sponge-painting the powder room, keeping chickens etc. Anything to keep busy. Jessa's not domestic by any stretch, she's not motivated or qualified for more education, she doesn't want a job for which additional training isn't required. She doesn't even read. No wonder she's pregnant.

Thanks for the great info. PS - I was Jewish in at least one past life - I just know I was. :>)

Boob's reaction would be interesting to see, that's for sure. Behind the scenes, I think he would indeed go ballistic. On camera, it would either not be mentioned at all or handled quite briefly and matter-of-factly, as the Bateses did when Zach's courtship was called off by the girl's side.

Maybe the restaurants have considered that a Duggar endorsement might actually keep some people away? Unless it was a place I'd already been to, I wouldn't go near some restaurant "recommended" by the Duggars.

Yes, Derick definitely has the Frankenstein look going on. Or the not-too-talented amateur look - bet Jill cuts his hair now. Which makes me wonder why Gothard men don't have long hair, like Jesus did?

Me too. Howdy Doody, from the very first show. Although there are times when a little Alfred E Newman comes across as well...

Or, and maybe more likely, someone else figures out how he/she can make big $$$ with it. JenCarroll - is there a difference between a Star of David and a Jewish Star? Just asking - I'm not familiar with the Jewish star. Thanks!

Sierra is an "event planner" in her own mind - only.

Moved from the Marsiah thread... Quote - If the Duggars pushed Josiah into a courtship because of speculation about his sexual orientation, I hope there's a very special place reserved in hell just for them. Of course I have no way of knowing if my perception is right, but I've always had a feeling Boob has been a little disappointed in Josiah because perhaps he's not as "manly" as Boob would want him to be, thus the shipping-off to Alert Academy. Obviously, with this bunch, the preferred means of dealing with a "non-manly" son is to marry him off, a la TFDW, with no thought to the woman involved in the union, their future children, and what likely will happen down the road. IMO, the happiness of these children is of zero concern. What IS of concern: the way their life choices reflect on MEchelle and Boob's (alleged) parenting. This, IMO, is one of the most amazingly-awful things about Boob & Me-chelle. They seem to defy the global law of parenting. Virtually all parents want a better life for their own children and will do everything they're capable of to achieve that. But that's SO not true with these two. In their minds, children seem to be nothing more than reflections of themselves, multiples punches on their Get-into-Heaven cards. It's been very clear that Boob is not interested in leaving the size of his family up to God. By both talk and action, he is plainly-interested in having just as many children as he, or more correctly, Me-chelle, can possibly crank out. And what all these children want or need does not seem to concern them at all. Despite their ages, they don't even recognize the child as a grown adult until he/she is married.

Moved to the Michelle & Jim-Bob thread.

That is quite hilarious. I would love to have been a fly on the breakroom wall the day that little tidbit was announced.

And, it should also be noted, you have all raised good kids without the stifling OVERprotection and UNDEReducation of Gothardism. Kids, both boys and girls BTW, who are prepared to go out in the world and at least try to solve some of its many problems. On their own - and not worrying whether they have Mommy and Daddy's guidance, support and approval. The only "cooking" I can ever recall seeing Me-chelle do was, IIRC, her own breakfast. I guess that means on Mother's Day, Me-chelle even gets her morning egg cooked by one of the girls.

Extremely well-said, somepity. PS - loved your choices of wistful and resigned for summing up Jana - the poor kid. PS - you nailed it with Lord of the Flies and Weekend at Bernie's too. LOL!

No kidding - oy! Home planet is right. This website has an outer space background - I wonder if it's deliberate - or a happy accident? Not to mention that Winkie - actually William - is quite the busy fellow selling himself. Tabs across the top include Store and Donate. It's always comes down to $$$ with these people.

I honestly hope Marjorie ends up having the exact life she's dreaming about right now, at 17, whatever that might be. It's surely possible, but I just don't think it's likely. I tell my 22-year old niece all the time: The first kid her age that really listens to what her parents and others [like me] are saying is going to CLEAN UP, in some wonderful way, in Life. Be the next Oprah or something. And my niece smiles indulgently at me and rolls her eyes, and of course I know she's going to have to live through it to actually learn what I'm trying to tell her. We do know a lot when we're young. We just don't find out until we're older how wrong we were about most of it. That's Life, I guess...

Definitely agree. The level of language used in leg-humper comments is a big part of the reason why I believe so many of them are - insert sound of throat being cleared - generally not the brightest porch lights on the street. These comments contain a lot of misspelled and misused words, are badly-written overall, even unintelligible at times. Even though from the content it's clear the writer is middle-aged, they can sound as though a middle-schooler wrote them. Then of course, I think a lot of leg-humpers actually are middle-schoolers and high-schoolers. Not to mention people just like the Duggars themselves - largely uneducated 20-something fundies stuck at home with their own small children, few opportunities and even fewer dreams.

Of course being a teacher I had to look this up, so my first surprise was that doofus is in the dictionary on my Mac laptop. Oh, and the plural of doofus is actually doofuses. But I think I like doofi better myself - LOL.

Something tells me Scientology gets noticed more because all the various celebrities associated, or formerly associated, with it.