TaurusRose

Not a lot to say about this episode that hasn't already been said. After the GoT season finale, it was a little bit of a let down, but I think it's because the bulk of time was spent in the '60s with people I don't care about (Roger & Brianna). I liked all of the Claire & Jamie stuff. I'm surprised that some thought SH's acting was off, I thought he was perfect as always. CB looks great in period clothes ('60s) although the hair was startling...it was too big and too poufy for me, but that's personal taste. I wasn't wowed by the actors playing R&B, with a heavier negative favorability score going to the actress. Maybe she'll get better. But right now she's in the same category as the kid who plays Fergus IMO, not terribly impressive. I thought the ending was pretty hokey even though I liked the lighting effects on the stones. This was not the best episode of the season in my opinion, but again, I'm in it for Jamie & Claire, not Roger, Brianna & Claire with a side of Jamie.

I am really excited about Dany's story. It's going to bring together a lot of characters who have never met or who haven't seen each other in a long time. It will be interesting to see how things reveal themselves when Westeros discovers both dragons and White Walkers. I also want to find out how Bran fits into the new world order even though I don't really care about Bran. I also want to see who Dany ultimately becomes. I've always liked her and believed in her. I hope the promise of her arrival and rule along with the negotiations and alliances she will have to be part of bears enjoyable fruit. I also want to see Cersei Lannister dealt with because it's been a long time coming. And, I HATE her. I'm ambivalent about Jamie's future. I don't really like him, but I don't know what I would like to see happen to him. I've always rooted for Arya. I don't think she's a monster; I think she was exposed to a lot of things she should not have been and those experiences have largely informed who she is now. But I don't think she is a lost cause. Of all the people I would like to see her reunited with, it's Jon. They clearly loved each other and he gave her Needle. I don't know how GoT will ultimately end. GRRM's unfinished novels cast a shadow over whatever the series does, IMO, but I'm going to enjoy the ride and hope that my favorite characters survive.

@slf You keep mentioning Jon's mistakes during the battle of bastards (which has been acknowledged by myself and everyone else with eyes). Jon was handed the victory because HE was the commander. He led the charge, he and his men stood their ground, and they would have died bravely for the cause w/o knowledge of any backup coming to their aid. Having courage is doing the right thing even when you know it could cost your life. That is what Jon and his men did. I've also argued your other points as far as I'm willing; my position has not changed and I'm not going to be won over. I think it's time to agree to disagree on this topic because now we're just arguing in circles. @AGuyToo Thanks for saying what I've been trying to say with a whole lot less words. @stagmania You are welcome.

I agree that the writing for Sansa has been confusing and Sophie Turner's direction has not helped. After watching TWoW several times, because I LOVE Jon being hailed KitN, I've decided that Sansa comes across as mostly rather melancholy. I honestly don't think Sansa begrudges Jon anything. Neither of them have ever been grasping people, drunk with ambition like Littlefinger or Cersei. But where I can get always get a good read on Jon's character, this new version of Sansa is puzzling. At first she came across as a spoiled highborn girl, but now she's almost a female version of Theon...unsure of everything, especially herself. She hasn't healed from the abuse she suffered at Ramsay's hands, she's lost another sibling, and to top it all off, she still has a dangerous viper circling her. As for destiny, especially the way the story has unfolded up to now, Sansa doesn't appear to have ever been slated for any great role; whereas Jon's destiny has been foreshadowed from the moment he reached Castle Black. That said, Sansa's growth and power doesn't have to come from ruling, she can become an influential and respected person as the Lady of Winterfell. Jon's leadership has always been second guessed by this one or the other, but I don't see any of his victories as unearned and I don't know what you mean by even the show knows it. Jon successfully infiltrated the wildling camp, learned what they were planning, then escaped to report back to the NW. He held off the attack of the wildling army at the wall when Alliser Thorne was wounded. Before that he lead the attack on Craster's Keep, avenging LC Mormont. No one denies that Jon lost his head during the battle of the bastards. That doesn't mean he is not a strong military commander or leader of men, and once Jon's horse was shot out from under him, he didn't have any choice but be a foot soldier. Everything you pointed out about this particular battle, Jon knew the moment he charged, but his heart couldn't go along with his head once he saw his brother go down. Was it bad for the team? Well, yeah. But totally understandable under the circumstances. Jon is brave and loyal; he's courageous with a huge heart and that is why people follow him. Davos didn't oppose Jon's plan and as far as we know, Cerwyn was approached off screen. When Lady Mormont called out the houses, Cerwyn was on her list. If he hadn't refused the call, he should have spoken up and cleared his name, but he didn't. As a matter of fact, he didn't pledge an oath to Jon at all, and didn't take part in the cheering until it was clear the other lords were all in. So, once again, the only thing we know for sure is that Sansa reached out to LF and kept secrets from Jon. The end. I think you're confusing things regarding Hardhome and the events leading up to it. Jon did not strike any bargains with Stannis (i.e. negotiating with Tormund and the wildlings so that Stannis could take Winterfell). Jon refused all of Stannis's overtures including giving him the name Stark and the title of Warden of the North. Jon stayed true to the oath he'd taken to Night's Watch. Jon sought a pact with the wildlings to help the brothers fight off the White Walkers. He did everything he could to increase the numbers of the NW...he sent letters to all the houses in the North requesting men; he even sent a letter to Roose Bolton; although he hated doing it. Jon put his case before Tormund who grudgingly agreed, but only if Jon went with him to Hardhome to help persuade the free folk. Prior to doing this, Jon sought the advice of Maester Aemon. He was concerned because he knew his plan would divide the brothers bitterly, half would hate him as soon as he gave the order. Aemon told Jon that half the men hated him already. "You will find little joy in your command," Aemon said, "but with luck you will find the strength to do what needs to be done. Kill the boy, Jon Snow. Winter is almost upon us. Kill the boy and let the man be born." It was certainly Jon's call as Lord Commander to make the decision he thought best to protect the wall and everyone south of it. Because the game was over if those fuckers got through. Jon advised the NW of his plan and as expected, they voiced their disapproval; especially Alliser Thorne who resented Jon from the beginning and never more than when Jon was elected Lord Commander over him. Jon reminded them of the greater enemy, but still they clung to the grievances of the past; proving that you cannot reason with people who don't want to be reasoned with despite the eventual harm that will land on all. The one mistake I think Jon made was not sending Alliser to another part of the wall because he was the real instigator. Instead, Jon made him First Ranger and put Thorne in command when he left for Hardhome. I have no doubt that Alliser used the opportunity to fan the flames already stirring against Jon in his absence. I know the failings of humankind; the inability to see past old hurts, wars and injustices, the ability to be supremely selfish and to hold grudges for eons. But I don't understand "biting off your nose to spite your face." Alliser and his cronies knew about wights and White Walkers and had seen evidence of them with their own eyes. What insanity made them think an army of dead wildlings turned wights was better than tolerating them as allies to help fight the real threat? What made them think that the oath, "I am the sword in the darkness, the watcher on the walls, the shield that guards the realms of men" didn't refer to something bigger than wildlings? When Jon presented his argument to the free folk, quite a few of them took him up on the offer. They wanted to survive and live. In this, they were far more reasonable than the men of the watch. And lastly, the wall has always been under-manned; Jon did not leave it any more so when he went to Hardhome. The wall wasn't under any threat when he left, and only a handful of brothers accompanied Jon and Tormund. Hardhome took the hit from the Night King's army, lots of free folk died and were turned during that battle. So, I disagree wholeheartedly with your reasoning. Jon was not Stannis's pawn. Jon did not involve himself in the politics south of the wall, and Jon did not make the wrong choice. He knew certain factions were unhappy with his decision, but he never thought they would murder him. The wrong choice was made by Alliser, Olly and the rest. Bet they were shocked to shit when they saw that even death couldn't keep Jon Snow down.

Sorry for the back to back posts. But... All of this.

Maybe I'm forgetting something here. Please give examples of Jon's massive screw-ups. I don't recall any. Not sure why you keep trying to compare Sansa to Lyanna Mormont. It's quite apparent that LM has been raised to lead and has maesters to advise her. But more importantly, we haven't been shown one person who doesn't take her seriously and that's good enough for me. Damn skippy we remember Jon was stabbed by some of his own men. But. It's not Jon's shortcoming that some men could not look past their personal sense of entitlement, jealousy and/or grief to see the big picture. Jon was absolutely right to bring the Wildlings inside the Wall. Jon fought the battle of Hardhome and knows they've got bigger concerns than the petty squabbles consuming everybody right now. He doesn't have to be flawless, he has to keep doing what he's doing and preparing people to fight an enemy that threatens every man, woman and child in Westeros.

I sensed that once Sansa got to The Wall and felt safe with Jon, she began feeling stronger and more confident; thus, her strongest desire was to kick Ramsay's ass out of Winterfell and she said as much. However, she didn't have a plan. Her plan was for Jon to do the heavy lifting and (he having just recently been resurrected) wasn't keen to fight another battle. During the first roundtable, her strongest contribution was the "North remembers" and the other houses would "rally round the Stark banner." Davos correctly pointed out that the larger Northern houses had already suffered tremendously under Robb's leadership and the Red Wedding was still a sore spot. Once Jon & Sansa went on their "come and help" tour, that point was driven home in spades. Sansa's reminder to the Lord of House Glover that he was sworn to answer House Stark's call was pretty much met with contempt. Thus, Sansa began doing the math and telling Jon what he already knew, they didn't have enough men. Jon's position was they had to take the fight to Bolton now because he didn't want the weather to turn against them as it had with Stannis's army. Davos said they stood a chance if they were careful and smart, but everyone knew that chance of victory was a long shot. Now, back to Sansa and her secret Vale knowledge. With everything that was at stake, when she knew the scale was lop-sided, why didn't she tell Jon she'd sent for the Vale's army (instead of suggesting ravens to another northern house that would tell her the same thing Glover did)? Why did she lie about her meeting with Littlefinger? She was too busy being secretive and throwing shade at Jon for listening to Davos instead of her vague pleas. Do you think the North would think kinder of her if they knew that she had withheld information vital to winning a major battle? Loyalty and sacrifice is something people expect from their leaders. When did Sansa exhibit these traits? What physical talents has Sansa displayed? What leadership experience does she have? Talking about Dany's situation and Sansa's is talking apples and oranges. Other than being female, I don't think they have a lot in common. I suspect it would take some time (years, maybe) to become skilled in strategy and swordsmanship; I suspect practice and actual application play a huge role in competency. For the sake of argument, say that Sansa is a quick study. There still isn't time for her to acquire the skills needed to wind up on a battlefield and live. As to your comment that Jon abandoned his post, (1) Jon told Ed not to knock the wall down in his absence, which leads me to believe he planned on returning, but if he did not (2) he died in service to the NW, so technically, he has met his obligation there. Whether or not the average lord would be disturbed by Jon's resurrection is a topic for another discussion.

Aside from the fact that Ned exposed all of his sons (with the exception of Rickon who was too young) to the duties and responsibilities of the Warden of the North, he also informed them with his sense of honor and duty. The sons also trained with weapons and presumably learned some battle strategy. That's part of the foundation I'm talking about. The other part is actual leadership. Jon was Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, which gives him experience in leading and credibility. Sansa does not possess the traits the men of the North are looking for in a leader. In the absence of Bran, who has his own difficulties, there is no male candidate with Stark blood to turn to and the way things stand now, Sansa is not an option.

I disagree with your POV. IIRC, Lyanna Mormont's mother fought with Robb Stark and if I'm mistaken that it was the Little Lady's mother, I'm not mistaken in the fact that at least one woman from a noble house did. I know that Jon let his emotions run away with him during the battle. Foolish or not, Jon will always fight for those he loves, so I understand why he lost it when Rickon was killed right in front of him. But none of that excuses Sansa from withholding vital information. Talking to me about her pure bloodline, changes nothing. It entitles her to nothing. Sansa was raised to be a noblewoman, not to lead the houses of the North. Be outraged for people ignoring her all you want, but nothing in Sansa's upbringing prepared her to be anything other than someone's lady or someone's queen. Her developed skillset is needlepoint, singing and scheming to save her ass primarily. She is no Dany. She is no Yara. Hell, she isn't even Lyanna Mormont, so the North choosing her for anything at this point would be ridiculous beyond reason.

I may be in the minority here, but for fuck's sake. Fuck, Sansa. She did not get her ass on the battlefield, in the face of amazing odds, and throw down like a champ. She did not chase Ramsay back to Winterfell, after fighting like a champ, and nearly beat the life out of him. By the time the Vale showed up, the army opposing the Bolton forces, small as they were, had bloodied their noses pretty good and made the Vale's job a whole lot easier and less bloody (for them). The Vale's army did not appear to number 6,000 men, so without the "useless" fighting of the smaller army, there is no proof that they would have prevailed. And had that happened, no one would be singing the praises of Sansa Stark. Big whoop, she's trueborn, but the thing is they don't need a pretty face; they need someone who knows what they're up against and will get in the middle of the fight when the shit hits the fan. Jon has put the Northern houses on notice...the real war is coming and they need to stand strong. This might seem like a small thing, but to me, it's very important: Sansa wasn't a team player; I don't care what her reasons were for not telling Jon about the Vale army, she allowed hurt feelings and a bitchy snit to get people killed needlessly, and I'm not forgetting that. Regardless of how people feel, the battle of the bastards is the kind of thing legends are made of, and if the North doesn't know about Jon's adventure with being dead, they will hear about it soon enough when men are drinking late at night in the great halls or sitting around campfires, and rehashing the battle again. As for the Tyrells and the Lannisters, they haven't given Sansa a thought since she ran away from KL, the only one who wants her is LF and even she knows that aligning herself with him is crazy.

I don't consider Jon a deserter of the Night's Watch. His oath was to stand watch until his death. He fucking died. Obligation met. Resurrection doesn't erase that fact. Plus I wouldn't want to stay there either when there was only a handful of men he could truly trust. Yes, I saw those interviews as well, but they don't trump what I see on the screen or how the scene plays out. Sansa was clearly over her frustration in TWoW and Jon acknowledged her contributions and apologized for not listening to her. So...those interviews aren't keeping pace with what the characters are doing. .

I'm guessing you missed the part where Jon asked Sansa if she trusted LF and she said only a fool would. And in the same conversation, Jon told Sansa they had to trust each other because they had a lot of enemies and couldn't be fighting amongst themselves. So, I don't think Sansa has to make sure of anything. Jon is not stupid. I don't believe he's learned nothing from his experiences this year. What does LF know about Jon's true parentage? I'm thinking nothing.

I'm rewatching the earlier seasons in my spare time and I don't think Arya is using unearned magic at least not from the show's POV. She and Jaqen had an interesting chat before they parted ways in S2. He knew that she had many names on her list and even repeated them to her. He offered to teach her how to become a Faceless Man and gave her the coin to follow him, knowing full well why she wanted to learn his skills. I think he taught Arya everything she needed to know before she left Braavos; I got the impression that he was totally okay with her remaining herself and leaving. I agree with everything you said about Jon. I don't have a love interest in mind for Jon, I only know who I don't want to see him end up with. Sansa or Dany; although, I think Dany and Jon would look sensational in the same scene. Jon lost his focus in one battle and because of that he's incompetent to some people and knows nothing, despite the scrap with the White Walkers and the Night King, and the battle with the Wildlings at the Wall. I think Jon hate is blinding some folks. A few things I forgot to mention last night... I loved the scene between Dany and Tyrion. I liked how she sat down on the steps beside him and they just talked like regular people. Tyrion is at his best, IMO, when he's revealing some truth about himself. I adore that he believes in Dany and her cause; I adore that she respects him, his intelligence and his loyalty. I teared up when she presented him with the pin and made him Hand of the Queen. Tyrion was quite cute in that scene kneeling before her. I can't say that I was too bothered by Daario getting the Friend Zone treatment. Payback for rubbing Jorah's nose in it for so long. I liked the gentle, yet firm way Dany let him down, but no matter, what Daario said, it was always going to be, "Boy, bye." I agree with the person who didn't care how Varys got back to Meeren as long as he was on the flagship with Dany, Tyrion and Missandei. Grey Worm looked pretty badass on his ship, too. Theon looks like he's going to jump out of his skin any second, but Yara is a total badass. I liked that they showed the Dothraki horses below deck. Wonder who is on poop patrol? And I simply cannot gush any more than I already have about the dragons. Fantastic CGI work. I hope we get to see Uncle Benjen again, but it sounds like he has to stay behind the wall now. Did anyone else come away with that thought? I guess I'm glad Davos got to vent about Shireen, and the scene did give the actors the chance to shine, but I'm over Shireen and have been for a long time. I'm not sure why Bran thought it was so important to jack into a weirwood tree in the middle of nowhere, but Bran doesn't make a lot of sense to me right now anyway, and at least now everyone knows R+L=J (even those of us who really didn't want that to pass). Whatever his purpose is, I wish they'd get on with it because I'm tired of him. Also, D&D, find some way for him to be mobile that doesn't require Meera to drag his ass all over the place. Lady Olenna cracked me up putting the sand snakes in their places, but as usual Dorne is always...why? I may have been the only person surprised that the serving girl turned out to be Arya, I thought her eyeing Jamie was odd before the reveal. Speaking of Jamie, he seems dissatisfied (residual effects of seeing Brienne again?), but boy, did I get a good laugh after he threw some shade at Walder. I'm glad that old coot is dead, he was disgusting. And finally, Cersei looked deranged sitting on the IT, just flat out batshit crazy. The citizens of KL should leave now. I am glad to be rid of the HS and his minions, but as usual, Cersei went to an extreme, proving (once again) that she's the bitch who doesn't care about anything except getting revenge and having power...she practically danced on Tommen's body to get there. She's in for the shock of her life and I can't wait.

I don't want to see Jon and Sansa married. There's a major ick factor there. They are first cousins and were raised to believe they were half siblings. Also, the Starks don't appear to have Targaryen/Lannister sensibilities when it comes to banging a blood relative. I think Jon being King in the North could work if the North really wants him (because he still has Stark blood), his cousins back him (because he is the best choice) and HE wants the position. Thing is, I don't know what Jon wants. He seems reluctant to lead anything or anybody. But if it turns out that he is Rhaegar's trueborn son, it will be interesting to see Dany's reaction to another legitimate claim to the IT. It would also be interesting to see how all of Westeros reacts to the news. I'm looking at you, Tyrion. LOL

Maybe so, but the Vale is in the South, right? If so, they are not part of the North and Jon isn't dependent on them for support. If they want to help because of family ties, great. But it's the houses of the north that give the Starks their support and armies. IMO, Littlefinger is fucked all the way around.

Woo Hoo! We've got ourselves a NEW King of the North. Jon Snow!! My neighbors probably think I'm insane after all the whooping and clapping. Go, Arya. Perfect execution of that old fucker Waldo Frey. As much as I hate Cersei, her plan was flawless. But don't get comfortable on the Iron Throne, bitch, because Dany is on her way and you will be no match for the Mother of Dragons and her combined forces. Jamie. Jamie. Jamie. See what a monster you've been fucking and loving all these years? I was so hoping that Jon would not be the son of Lyanna and Rhaegor, because I wanted Ned to have fucked around on Catelyn (hate her). But it is what it is. Jon is still a Stark even if only because of his mother, but his relationship ties will make interesting interactions next season. Sansa redeemed herself somewhat in my eyes, by saying that Jon was a Stark to her, apologizing for her behavior before the battle for Winterfell and telling him about Littlefinger. The last shot of her shows that she has some concern with LF still lurking in the background, though. Little Lady Mormont, I love you. Oh, and the money shot of Dany's fleet and the dragons? Awesome. More thoughts later.

This is true. I have empathy for Sansa and the abuse she suffered at Ramsay's hands, but Theon? Not so much. I cannot forgive him for his betrayal of the entire Stark family. He may be pathetic and a shell of himself now, but I believe in Karma--that the Universe rights all wrongs given enough time. Theon got payback in spades.

Ooooookay. It wasn't my intent to be snarky, I am genuinely curious because it seems like a lot of knowledge I take for granted from my school years isn't being imparted these days. I'm curious about a lot of things and had the Internet and Google been around when I was in school, I probably would have been considered a Rhodes scholar. LOL BTW, you've shared some information that I did not know, so...thanks.

Ooookay. This begs the question: exactly what are they teaching in schools these days?

Two quibbles because...that's just the way I roll. LOL (1) Not sure why CPR was even a consideration since no one knew anything about CPR in the 18th century. So BJR was being true to form, a FSB. (2) Bastard babies being raised by others...not sure what the point of this observation is since the same thing is true today; and just for clarification purposes, Frank offered to raise a child conceived in wedlock, whose father is/was (presumed) dead. This time travel stuff is confusing.

I don't believe Dougal's competency was the issue for Colum, but Dougal's character. Dougal was grudgingly loyal to his brother, but he was also a hot-head. Dougal was not a leader; he wasn't one to compromise or negotiate. He saw everything as a challenge to charge through with as much force as necessary. Dougal motivated men through fear and intimidation. Colum pointed this out rather succinctly with just one sentence, "Brother, if you were half as popular as you are in your mind, more men would be in your army." Colum foreshadowed his choice for Hamish's guardian in S1. The main reason he was upset by Jamie's marriage to Claire was that her nationality took his nephew squarely out of the running for laird should Colum pass. Jamie had proven his ability to disentangle himself from sticky clan situations when he pledged an oath of obedience rather than fealty at the gathering, and again when he offered an alternative that satisfied everyone's egos after Colum confiscated Dougal's BPC fund. Jamie is not only a warrior, but he's also a strategic thinker; he's fair and just in his decision making, and an all around likable person. Colum saw all of this in his sister's son and that is why he was the laird's first choice. And even though Colum knew Jamie would rally the MacKenzies to battle, he knew that Jamie would put his men's welfare above that of a losing battle and Dougal would not. Finally, TBF, Colum had taken the yellow jasmine prior to Dougal's arrival. His very relaxed, almost labored speech was the tip-off. Prior to that, he had been alert in mind and fully engaged with his visitors despite his pain. Dougal might have noticed if he wasn't already drunk, but Dougal being Dougal, maybe he wouldn't have even if he'd been sober.

This. I don't listen to any of those after show recaps because I rarely agree with any of the hosts' opinions, and I don't like being annoyed by them.

I agree with the complimentary posts regarding this episode as my many likes will attest. I have just a couple of comments to add... I was glad Mary was able to voice her displeasure about Claire's interference in her relationship with Alex. (Claire knew the broad strokes of history, but she didn't know the nuances of what occurred, which Mary's pregnancy underscored.) Loved Jamie's rage upon hearing that BJR was still in the mix. (I feel you, JAMMF, why can't that fucker just DIE???) But, Bravo! Claire did not just take off on her own and do things without consulting her husband. They were on the same page every step of the way. Damn, Gary Lewis was awesome portraying Colum's final days. I felt his physical pain. I was also happy that he was able to voice his mistakes to Claire. Also, bravo, Caitriona Balfe. She is wonderful portraying Claire's compassionate, gentle nature. Not only did the gentlemen bring it in the guardian scene, but I thought Graham McTavish's performance in Dougal's final scene with Colum was breathtakingly heartbreaking for its regret, bitterness and sorrow. Duncan Lacroix is also kicking butt. I loved how Murtagh was ready to go medieval on BJR's ass. I can never have too many reminders of how much Murtagh despises that bastard and wants to decorate with his innards. Kudos to Murtagh for not backing down on his opinion of Frank Randall. LOL Too damn funny. But his offer to marry Mary shows the kind of heart that beats inside this gruff, no-nonsense warrior man. I love Murtagh! I HATE, HATE, HATE BJR. I know they tried to humanize him with the "Johnny" bits, but guess what? Epic failure. What a despicable beast masquerading as a human being. I don't know how Claire could stomach sitting across from him, much less trying to reason with him. I would have shoved that glass into the middle of his face had he talked that amount of shit to me about what he did to Jamie. Evil, twisted...I won't subject y'all to an endless stream of curse words. Claire. Claire. Claire. I know there may be some who can't appreciate Claire's viciousness when the situation calls for it, but I personally loved her expression when she told Jamie she was prepared to keep her promise made in Paris. That coupled with Jamie's, "Remind me not to get on your bad side, Sassenach" was just the bee's knees. LOL I am so in on Team Fraser. BPC. What a smirking, grinning imbecile. That is all. To the person who said no rape victim should ever have to comfort his/her rapist: I totally agree and wonder what DG was thinking when she included that foolishness in her book. Can't wait for the finale.

Me, too. Some people just try too hard. Ditto. After what BJR did to Jamie at Wentworth and his cruel, antagonizing comments to Claire in the pub, that would have been beyond the pale.

I disagree with you. But as you said to me, your opinion, have at it. Still, if you wish to list the woes of Sansa, I'll play. Ayra's been beaten, hunted, starved, and dragged all over the place against her will. She was put in the position where she had to actually kill someone while still a child. Bran was pushed from a tower and paralyzed. Rickon was deprived of his parents and his home, then forced to run and hide all of his short life. Jon has been beaten, stabbed [to death], shot full of arrows, and deprived of his true parentage, and let's not forget the miserable treatment (non-physical abuse) he endured from his father's wife and oldest daughter [Sansa]. One more thing. Of course, we'll never know, but it is conceivable that had Sansa taken Tyrion up on his offer to send her back to Winterfell in the midst of the Joffrey mess, none of these other misfortunes would have befallen her. You can try to justify the deaths of the others any way you want, but your argument doesn't hold any weight with me or prove that they suffered less than Sansa, so, I'm done.