GirlyGeek

Oh, I went through a phase a few months ago and literally downloaded all "Vampire Diaries" music to my phone, lol. Among my faves (do I need to spoiler tag in here... not sure!) Um, spoilers, I guess Beauty of the Dark (Stefan finds Zach and the graveyard scene with Vicki) Be Still, The Fray (Alaric goodbye) All I Need (Damon and Elena dance) A Drop in the Ocean (Stefan calls Elena and Damon destroying Stefan's room) Never Let Me Go (Damon and Elena motel kiss) Turn to Stone (Damon about to fry himself) Holding on and Letting Go (Elena's porch with Damon) There's lots more. Great thread, love the music on this show! This site helped me find a lot of them: http://www.tunefind.com/show/vampire-diaries

Oh great, I didn't know there was a fanfic thread for SPN. Another thread for me to lose hours and hours in! I wrote some SPN fanfic back in the day, and I've had a SPN/vampire diaries cross over one in my brain for weeks now, but no time to write it! Probably better that way, lol. I read gen fic and some, mild pairings, but no slash or AU (at least not ones that involve the actors or extreme AU... I can handle AU if it's close to canon) I'm gonna dive into these vids tho! Love me a good vid :)

It's strange, I have no issues with this episode. It's funny and fabulous and great dialogue. But I don't reach for it as one to re watch. I forget about it because it's right smack in the middle of all the angst and I usually just want to get on with the storyline. Weird, cause it's actually a great episode and even on re watch I loved it. I have to disagree, though. I don't think there could have been anything other than this episode to follow up On the Head of a Pin adequately. They needed this complete derail from the story, imo, to break things up and give us a breather from all the drama. Cause it's pretty icky from here on out til the end and there was so much heaviness in the last few eps too.

I actually enjoy the heck out of this episode for a lot of reasons. First being Dean and Jensen. Just superb job with what material he was given* The actor for Alistair also was fantastic and their scenes together were creepy and heartbreaking and then more creepy. The blood drinking reveal was icky and shocking. I didn't think the show would go there (in fact, I had written a fanfic just weeks before that insinuated Sam was injecting demon blood to get his strength, and I had toyed around with having him drinking the blood but I thought no way, that could make Sam a monster/completely irredeemable, right? Shows how much I knew) And of course the need, which was creepy and almost childlike how he drank from Ruby, showed just how far gone in his addiction he was. Despite me being scared for Sam after all that, it was awesome to see him pull Alistair out and kill him. I'm glad the show showed how messed up Dean was after that fight, too. It had been a long time since we'd seen real consequences for the boys,, medically. And having Sam show concern and demand a cure from Castiel was nice. I loved seeing Cas realize that his blind faith was not a good thing and it's been nice to watch him unfold from heavens soldier/blunt instrument to free thinker (kind of a nice parallel to Dean vs his dad). I tend to decide that Alistair was lying about John, because I don't like the implications the show was making otherwise. It's hard enough to believe that Dean lasted torture for 30 years, I don't need to swallow that John lasted longer. Actually in my head John broke too, but he wasn't the righteous man that was needed to break the seal. That's what I'm sticking to (I may be misremembering if this is cleared up/contradicted in later episodes... I guess Ill remember when I get there, lol) Lastly, so glad Uriel got ganked *the reason I say this about the material: once again, the show over reached what the story was going to physically be able to do. So while Jensen was awesome, the show shouldn't have implied that Dean was going to be some kind of bad ass evil monster if they made him torture Alistair. #1 because they didn't show that happening; #2 because there was no way the show, on the CW, could sell torture to me... Not real, on the rack tearing people, apart, HELLs version of demon torture. Sorry, but it gets hard for me to grasp story lines about demons and angels when they're waterd down to the point they have to be watered down to to fit into a prime time tv spot on a general cable channel. So when I'm told that a character spent 10 years perfecting and liking torture that he learned from the best demon torturer in HELL... I expect more. And I know they can't give it/show it, so why do they even set it up? Anyway it's minor quibble cause I can hand wave those kinds of limitations (plus I really wouldn't want to see what they talked it up to be like anyway).

I love this episode (gosh I've been saying this a lot for season 4, which is highly unexpected- I think being years out from this season and watching with all the knowledge of what's coming really helps this season) I love the kid who plays Cole- he was great on Weeds and it was delightful to see him here. Great guest actor. I was really thrown by Alistairs voice/the choice made by the actor (who I'm sorry I wasn't familiar with before seeing him on SPN) and it ws super distracting. I was so shocked the first time I saw this ep, when Sam threw Alistair against the tree and started to exorcise him easy peasy. And then seeing Tessa again! That was a huge highlight, plus she gave Dean back his memory of being a ghost after their car crash... I wish that would have been explored/mentioned. Cas showing a little humor- D:"what the hell? C: "Guess again". Or whatever they said. Makes me laugh. I had forgotten how "angel-like" Cas was at first and this early on. It's jarring, but I like watching him progress and begin to question. You see him look puzzled and like he's trying to figure humanity (and Dean, specifically) out. Anyway I have no beefs with this episode, except maybe how much I eyerolled the boys leaving blind Pamela alone without salt lines. Also, why the hell don't the boys fill a bunch of tubes or hoses with salt and keep them in the car so they can lay them out easy as pie wherever they go? Salt can't be dispersed/disturbed and they don't have to keep pouring salt down all over the place! Doors and windows come in pretty standard sizes, for the most part, it'd be easy to do! I'd make a great hunter ;) ok, maybe just a well organized one.

I'm gonna keep it simple here, but I am not ashamed to admit I love this episode. Like others have said above, it's dark and icky and doesn't make you feel good... But it still lands in my top 10 or so eps somehow! It definitely does better on re watch and with all the knowledge of the rest of season 4, though. First time through I was so shocked and dismayed at Sam's actions and words that I didn't know what to do (actually, I needed to write my first ever SPN fanfic after this ep, lol, to get it out of my system). I won't go into all the Nick vs Dean vs Sam stuff. It's well covered above and I see many sides of it. I will say that the boo hoo from Sam and the *personal* attacks from Sam to Dean felt, to me, to be way too harsh, especially on the first viewing of the episode. I get it now. Also, I never judged Deans line "what is it with you and banging monsters?" the first time around. When I re watched today, it didn't sit well with me at all and I realized for probably the first time what a dickish thing it was to say. I think I was always so focused on what the hell is Sam doing/saying?! That I didn't call Dean out for that one. But, ya know, Dean girl here. Sometimes I think he can really do no wrong. Edited to add: I forgot to add... It's right around this time of the season that I had to break out my "bitch" and "jerk" necklaces to remind me that these two really do love each other. Really. They do! But for the rest of the season they're just gonna break my heart. Clutching necklaces!

Actually my first thought was the wooded area where Dean was buried (and rose) in Lazarus Rising. All the trees were leveled in that ep, of course, but that's what I thought. Purgatory makes sense, too, though.

I don't get my panties in a twist over that ep too much either, but I have to disagree with your assessment. Yes, the Siren magnified the issues. However, Deans attack was far different than Sam's. Everything Dean said was both true and about something Sam was doing, not about who he is/was, and he specifically said it wasn't Sam's powers or the demon blood, it was Sam lying and sneaking around. Sam's argument was all attacking Dean personally (you're too weak, holding me back, boo boo about hell, stop whining). Two very different fighting style, imo. But what makes the biggest difference- Sam comes down off the Sirens spell and continues to say and show Dean that he meant everything he said. He does think Deans holding him back and too weak and he tells him many more times (or tells the audience). That said, I don't think Sam would have openly made fun of Deans torture in hell out loud without the Sirens influence. I don't think of this as a Sam vs Dean issue, though... I just think the writers overstepped here. In retrospect, I chalk Sam's dickishness up to the demon Blood he was guzzling (that we didn't know about yet) and the Siren just hugely magnified everything more for him.

Didn't like this one the first time (and it was my second ever live episode!), and on this re watch, it's not as bad... But nothing I would actively watch again. It annoys me to no end that the writers of this show seem to latch on to something and then beat it until it's dead and gasping. This season, they apparantly discovered they could use the words Dick and Douche bag without being sensored and then continued to do so until everyone was annoyed. Ugh I'm trying to make sense of what Sam *says* and his choice here. I get his choice, but the "I don't wanna be doing this when I'm old" line doesn't quite jive for me. It's one of two things: 1) Sam decided to go back to Ruby and her way because he wanted to kill Lilith and knew he'd die in the process (ie doesn't want to continue on hunting til he's an old man) 2) Sam thinks killing Lilith is an opportunity to end the bad and have a chance at 'winning', a possibility that things don't have to end bloody, as Dean says they will. One thing I know, as of this re-watch. First, Sam is still mostly Sam in this episode, ie : ; second, I fully and wholeheartedly believe that Sam believes Ruby. He believes he is the only one who can stop Lilith and that makes her his responsibility, and therefore the consequences of her breaking the seals and lucifer rising and bringing hell on earth is also his responsibility. So, I don't think he's doing what he's doing out of anything other than wanting very much to get revenge on Lilith and to stop her. He's sad I this episode, resigned, and Dean thinks it's all a lost cause (gonna end sad or bloody) and Dean is so very broken (and Sam takes that on as his fault too) and all Sam keeps hearing is that he's the magic ticket that can fix it. So I get it and can still see Sam here in this episode and still see his motivations in most ways, even if the reason/anvils/parallels in this episode didn't quite do it for me. That's all I'll say in this thread cause the spoiler tags will just take over, lol. Onward!

Well then, I guess for me it just came off as Sam being a dick, not a sympathetic character that needed help. Just didn't work for me during the season, though I can appreciate it now somewhat. At the time, to me it was Sam replacing Dean with a demon (who was obviously stringing him along), on a road of vengeance for someone who was *sitting right beside him now/no longer dead*, lying about it and feeding into Dean's own issues (abandoning him, hell, boo hoo, not strong enough, etc etc) The demon blood drinking still shocks me, honestly. I don't see a parallel between his occasional getting drunk and drinking blood, though.

I agree that what we were shown from Sam's POV just wasn't enough, and I fault the writing for this. It seems like they were going for the 'shock and awe' moments, and teasing the fans along, when what really happened is that we were left scratching our heads wanting to like the main lead character (s) but not sure why they were doing anything they did. I can fan-wank Sam's actions, but it really isn't based on what was shown on screen. We needed to *see* Sam going a little crazy after Mystery Spot... and we didn't. Even, episodes later, had he brought it up at all, I could have gone... ohhhh, ya he's messed up about it and I could have had more empathy and understanding. We needed to *see* something that triggered Sam to flip back to Ruby and Demon blood... and I'm sorry but Criss Angel episode didn't make any sense to make that happen! We needed to *see* that Sam was so pissed about Dean coming back too broken that he was re-fueled in his revenge plot Or, the is she evil/is she helping Ruby plot needed to be given up much earlier so the viewers could understand and root *for* Sam to figure it out. Like i said, I can fan wank.... Sam saw that he was damned no matter what he did- the angels still hated him/damned him whether he was drinking demon blood or not. He was tainted (in his eyes) Dean came back so messed up from Hell that *Sam felt like* he was going to be useless in what needed to be done against Lillith, so Sam went back to Ruby (we hear this MUCH later in the season, but it was a bit late for me because I was already all "huh?" re: Sam) I haven't gotten through the rest of the S4 re-watch, so I'll have more to say once I refresh my memory. I can say that S4 does much better on re-watch because I already know what's coming and how Sam feels and what drove him, but its a little too late because I lost a ton of empathy for the character while getting through S4 the first time. Again, it would have been awesome for us, the viewers, to know that this was happening. But, I blame the writers again, they wanted it to be shocking that it was him drinking blood and getting all strung out on it/the power, so it was late S4 before we even were shown that. By then, I'd lost interest in trying to figure him out cause he was just pissing me off. lol in retro-spect, of course I get it. But I think the writers so badly wanted to put the boys into a tailspin and just went about it all wrong. It could have been a very organic fight about whether or not it was worth losing yourself to fight evil. Instead it was that fight, but behind curtains and layers of lies that weren't revealed until fans were already too upset (IMO).

You all have very insightful thoughts and if I hadn't finished this two parter so late at night, I'd jump right in. For now all I have is... Ruby is a demon... How can she eat French fries? They have lots of salt on them. Lol ;) It's the question of the ages, of course. I'll contribute more tomorrow, lol. But actually, a quick thought- I think they over reached with the whole 40 years thing. I mean, yes, Jensen sold the hell out of it and I tear up every single time at that scene. But, we're supposed to believe a human man went to hell, was tortured by demons for 30 years, then he took up the torturing for another 10 years, then this human man was raised from hell back to earth, And he remembers *everything*... It's just too much. And it's completely unbelievable. He remembers it all and that much times passed and all he's doing is drinking a bit much and having some vague nightmares? No, no, no, no. It would have played better, if they still went with the 40 years business (if they must) and have it so Dean only remembered flashes. You know, enough that he knows what happened, in a general sense, but not every moment. Trust me, it would be enough for the story to go on the same. Imo

This one confuses me. On the one hand, I love all the stuff with Dean. Jensen does well with both the comedic timing and then physical comedy, and his scream at the cat and his face/delivery of "that was scary" will never not make me laugh out loud. He is pure comedy gold the whole way through (and my kids spent the next year making videos trying to emulate his Eye of the Tiger video at the end, so that is awesome... They were 5,7, and 9, lol) I realize I tend to watch an episode, and not dig too deep into the first time I see it. So I spent the first time just LOLing. It was the 2nd time that I started to get annoyed with Sam and Bobby. Why in the world is Sam not more worried? His brother just died a few months before and went to hell and he just got him back, and now he's got literally hours before his heart is gonna explode and all Sam can do is be annoyed and gang up on making fun of him with Bobby? I don't get it. Was this an actor or director choice? And then to imply that Dean is a dick (and Sam isn't- even though he behaves like one the whole episode)?? Smh All that aside, I find myself liking the episode because of Dean/Jensen, and Lilith is always creepy. So, this ep gives me whiplash, but at the end of the day, it goes in the like column, even if I don't like the message it's giving me. And the thing at the end? With Sam's eyes? Yeesh, it gives me shivers

Ok, I'll admit it. I hated this episode the first time around. And I never watched it again until last year. I've never seen any old, classic monster movies, and probably never intentionally watched something that was in black and white. I didn't get a lot of the references. I don't always like when a show that's serious gets intentionally silly, either. So, right about the time that Sam said "this is stupid" I said "I agree!" Wth is this? Lol This time around, I thought it was very funny and loved just about everything. So, I'm fickle like that and I can admit it ;)

Makes sense to me. And since I already lean Dean, it's not a leap for me to have just stopped trying with Sam. I'm going at it with all new perspective hopefully this time around.

Seriously one of my all time faves, and I could watch the Dean warns Mary scene over and over and never stop being amazed at JA's skills. Just beautiful. And he throws in so many moments like that, such as when his voice breaks just a bit when telling Samuel about Yellow Eyes killing his mom. The lighting and set design is great, and the end, when Cas tells Dean to stop Sam or they will... The lighting is so gorgeous and artfully done. I always was Ok with the special kids storyline, and I have nothing against Sam having abilities. It's the way he's using them and the secrecy and that drives me crazy and makes me lose a grip on feeling any empathy for Sam.

So much love for this ep, and especially the first 10 minutes or so. However, I do kinda hate that the Dean and Sam reunion is tainted by all the lying lies. Sucks, and this is where (vague Sam spoilers for all seasons)

Ha ha. Well, I happen to like vamps, on occasion. Like in the show vampire diaries, you have to die with vampire blood in your system and then, to complete the transition into a vampire, you have to ingest human blood too (otherwise you just die). It's not perfect, but it's better than the SPN lore by a mile. I mean, honestly, you're right... Why would vamps be whining about being almost extinct when all they would need to do to create a blood bath was drop a few drops of their blood into the local water supply and watch a whole neighborhood or town turn? Or put some blood in the Roadhouses (may it RIP) beer taps and turn all the hunters, problem solved, lol

Love this episode. Watched it more times than I should admit to. The end, from Sam begging Ruby to tell him how to save Dean and on, just kills me. Both Jared and Jensen just knock it out of the park. Camera angles and direction are beautiful, too. Great moments in this ep, and very true to character Sam and Dean. A great finale. I was so glad, the first time I saw it, that I didn't have to wait for a whole summer to dive into season 4, lol.

Love this episode. It's one I can re watch over and over and never tire of it. There's so many good, quiet character moments in the first half, too. Especially when Dean and Sam are in the cell. Love how Sam sits up and completely changes his body language when Hendrickson starts in on how John must have molested them and all that. Well done. Smart boys throughout, Sam with the excorcism and snatching the rosary, and Dean with the plan that DID work. While I understand and see how it was all for nothing (well, except the boys aren't in jail, so there's that), there's a lesson in there, and Dean touches on it a bit. He doesn't want to win if it means they compromise their beliefs that they are, ultimately, saving people. He doesn't want to win if it means sacrificing the girl. That's not who he is. They could have gone that route and maybe it would have worked, but who would they be and what line would they be crossing? There's a bit of good continuity that Sam is more OK with, at least considering, the virgin sacrifice plan. He did just spend 6 months honing his hunter skills and plotting vengeance all alone (in Mystery Spot) and that should have changed him some. I don't know that we consistenly get to see that in his character, but it made sense here. Hate that Hendrickson ends up dead. I don't mind Ruby, even if she's obvious. For me, there were enough moments in S3 where I wondered what her real motives were, so she worked for me. If I have to nit pick one thing then, just like in Heart, I do not like how easily Nancy agreed to being sacrificed. Doesn't ring true to me. Our boys throw themselves on the line all the time... That's ingrained in them and they have missions and their reasons for being sacrificial of their lives. Most normal, day to day people do not, and I just don't buy it when regular folks sign themselves up for being held down and carved into within 30 seconds of hearing the plan. Ymmv :)

Oh! I forgot Game of Thrones! Maybe I should read everyone else's first to remind me of all the stuff I watch, lol. Funny enough, I love Klaus, too, and so much more on his own show (just like I love angel, but only on his own show, lol) Well... I *might* have kind of a bad boy /in need of a redemption arc thing.... Ha ha Here's my updated list, in no particular order: Mulder and Scully (xfiles) Malcolm Reynolds (firefly) River and Simon Tam (firefly) Damon Salvatore (vampire diaries) Spike (Buffy the vampire slayer) Kara Thrace/Starbuck (battlestar galactica) Helo and Athena (battlestar galactica) Adama and Roslin (battlestar galactica) Sheldon (Big Bang theory). See... I can pick non-sci fi shows! ;) Topher (dollhouse) Sun and Jin (lost) Angel (only on Angel, though, not on Buffy, lol) Fred And Illyria (Angel) Tyron Lannister (game of thrones) Klaus Mikaelson (and the family) (the originals)

Oh my catrox, we should be friends! And now I really, really want to do a BSG re watch (after my supernatural re watch is over, of course!) I forgot Lost!

OOooh, fun! Hmm, let's see, in no particular order: Mulder and Scully (xfiles) Malcolm Reynolds (firefly) River and Simon Tam (firefly) Damon Salvatore (vampire diaries) Spike (Buffy the vampire slayer) Kara Thrace/Starbuck (battlestar galactica) Helo and Athena (battlestar galactica) Sheldon (Big Bang theory). See... I can pick non-sci fi shows! ;) Edited to add... Topher (dollhouse) Sun and Jin (lost) Angel (only on Angel, though, not on Buffy, lol) Fred And Illyria (Angel)

I'm in San diego, so I know nothing of this bad winter weather you all speak of. It got a little windy and cloudy here today... It might sprinkle tomorrow ;) Rue721, I'm in the middle of the re watch and posting all by my lonesome in the episode threads if you're really bored. Just finished Very Supernatural Christmas, but if you want a recommendation, I laughed so hard I cried from Tall Tales and Folsom Prison Blues (hadn't watched them in years, so it was like brand.new.information!) :)

Oh ha, the necklace. The first time I saw this episode, I cried like a little girl when it was revealed that Sam gave it to Dean. Like seriously (and I swear, I'm not an emotional person, lol). I *never* had any hard feelings about the necklace and how it was intended for John at first... Never even crossed my mind until I read other fans getting upset about it. I love the origin of the necklace. I'm my mind, Sam realized that his dad didn't deserve it, that Dean was always there for him. Also, I think Sam realized that many of the reasons he may have thought his dad deserved the gift, were really because Dean covered for John to save Sam's feelings/protect him. I imagine the boys may have had an adversarial childhood at times- it's hard to be 'parented' by an older sibling and creates drama and resentments. I think Sam saw through that in these flashbacks. I grew up parenting my siblings, and it definitely made problems for us as adults, so I get it.