[S01.E08: A Jury In Jail]

I love DS and I really wanted to feel something during his scene at Kris' house but it's like...you all KNEW OJ was beating Nicole and you still went on vacation with him and played golf with him and all manner of other fun things. And NOW you're acting shocked that he's not a good guy? I have a really hard time with that, I really do. It's almost like they're making sure to paint Robert Kardashian in a good light in memory of him. I don't know. I just didn't buy it.

[Underground - General Discussion]

Well yall called it re: the overseer trying to rape Rosalee. I don't think anyone expected her to kill him though.

My heart's still pounding. What an episode!

[Kim Fields: Tootie's In Da House!]

Good for her. She got out with her good name still intact.

[S08.E18: Reunion Part 1]

This is going nowhere. Let's move on.

[S08.E18: Reunion Part 1]

I think Kim had more connections in the entertainment industry than Kenya did, due to her fathers position. I never said that her fathers ONLY friend was OJ, so perhaps you misunderstood me. Again, in the 90's you didn't know her father or her fathers connections, but that doesn't mean that they didn't exist and they didn't provide her with a leg up when she decided that she wanted to make a name for herself.

Kenya Moore had a black barbie doll, or thats what she was called back in the 90's when she won Miss USA? If she had a barbie fashioned after her, I think thats a pretty big deal. I tend to look for what people do off screen to see if it comports with the persona they put on TV, because I think reality TV can be a put on. For example, with Phaedra, I think she truly, truly is shady and fake -- but what really cemented it for me was reading her deposition. But yes, agree to disagree.

I think you misunderstood my point (which is my fault, I wasn't clear). What I'm saying is that I see the Kardashians as winning because they didn't really start out in the reality show game with any important accomplishments. They're literally as famous as they are because of Kim's sex tape.

Kenya started her reality career on third base, having already established herself as someone with an important legacy, at least within the black community. And when I said she was a black Barbie, I meant a living, breathing black Barbie, with all that that means. I know some other folks in here caught that but it seems you and I not all coming from the same place of understanding, which is why I asked if there was a disconnect.

All I was saying was that Kim needed a sextape to get to where she is, and after a sextape there's nowhere to go but up. Kenya didn't need to act a complete ass on TV to get where she is, and where she is now isn't winning to me because aside from her most loyal fans, everyone else believes this is who she is.

[A Different World - General Discussion]

I'm such a sap. It's not really a line but the Christmas epi when they visit Dwayne's parents and Whitley gets mugged by Santa trying to save Mrs. Wayne's present. Anyway, they're singing at the end and Adele sings "nothing could be better, than Christmas time with youuuuuu" and at the end she's pointing at family singing "and you, and you, and you" and then she looks at Whitley and sings "and you too." I tear up every time.

[S08.E18: Reunion Part 1]

Um, Kim Kardashian's father was a well known and respected Hollywood attorney. They were friends with the likes of the Simpsons. So, I would say, if anything Kim was much more deeply embedded in the entertainment industry than Kenya was.

Kenya did win Miss USA in the 90's and for the nearly 20 years since than hadn't done very much to make her a big figure in the public eye (although I maintain that straight to video movies were a big moneymaker in the era before Netflix), so to say she started from third base doesn't make much sense to me. I think she maybe got to second base, and than the inning was over or the game got rained out. Did Kenya ever really have a "legacy?" in the traditional sense? I don't think so, she certainly had her groundbreaking moment, which she can take through history.

As for Kandi and Cynthia, I think your point doesn't make much sense. How much work is Cynthia doing outside of RHOA? She has an eyewear line, and maybe a line of dolls, and the modelling school/pageants. Most people seem to think she is boring, which is why I think she has recently tried to stand up for herself (starting with Phaedra last year). And Kandi's opportunities seem to stem from her ability to invest in her businesses. Bedroom Kandi had to have required a heavy initial start up fee, and Kandi Koated Nights is something that she did on her own. She has had multiple spin offs, but none of them have ever been bandied about as a show, rather as far as I know there has been a ski trip and a wedding special. I don't see any other interest in her as a personality at all.

You say you believe that she is this terrible person for real, but if so, where are the stories of her terrible behavior from before RHOA? Where are the stories of how awful she was on the pageant circuit? Stories of what a bitch she was when was attending college at Wayne State?

But then again, I don't believe many people adored Kenya before she started this show, and if you did adore her than you should be more than open to her being a villain as an act. Or you should have had all the inside scoop about what a terrible human being she was on the pageant circuit and have some of those stories to share.

If you think Kim started above Kenya because of OJ then I don't know what else I can say that wouldn't sound bad. Erm...is it a cultural disconnect? Age? I came of age in the 90s in the black community and I can assure you that Kim Kardashian was a complete nobody to most of us before she got caught on tape screwing Brandy's brother. Kenya Moore, on the other hand, was a black Barbie doll and very well known to people in my age group/demographic.

As for the rest, Kenya has shown me who she is and I believe her. You don't believe her, so we can agree to disagree.

[S08.E18: Reunion Part 1]

Actually, she is winning, people hate the Kardashians, but I would say that the fact that they have enough money and recognition to start a line at Sears, have their own makeup line, make the cover of Vogue and have the money to afford to live the way they want makes them winners. And I do not like the Kardashians at all, but I know that if reality TV is a game, they are winning it.

But, I would be open to any and all stories of Kenya's poor behavior from before RHOA, because surely she didn't just become this terrible monster overnight, right? Seriously, I'm interested in the many, many, many stories that there must be out there about Kenya just being awful to work with from before she started working on RHOA. I'm wondering which of the people she has worked with on her movie hate her. I suppose there is Vivica Fox, but her "stolen phone" story has pretty much been debunked as some mythical attempt to get attention for CA.

The Kardashian's basically started fom zero. Kim was Paris Hilton's personal assistant. So yes, they absolutely are winning now.

Kenya? Kenya was Miss USA and as far as us 90s folks knew, a beautiful, nice woman with a fairly impressive catalogue of appearances in black shows, music videos, and movies where she played the gorgeous brown object of desire (which meant a lot to black girls). Yall think she came on this show and ruined her brand and legacy all to "pretend" she's a horrible person for reality show fame? That will never be a win to me, sorry.

Assuming she's pretending (which I don't believe), she didn't HAVE to do it. Cynthia and Kandi managed to last multiple seasons and parlay their exposure into outside opportunities WITHOUT losing fans and acting like assholes. Without threatening people or pathetically hiring a man to date them who then refuses to claim them, making them look desperate. Without appearing to go after a married man. Without attacking the career and reputation of someone with a much better resume and thereby appearing delusional. If she IS pretending, she's dumb AF.

I think she really is just nasty and miserable, and if so, she simply showed the world who she really is. Still a bad move.

So no, nobody will ever convince me that being talked about negatively by people, many of whom used to adore you, is winning. Not when you basically started on third base.

[S08.E18: Reunion Part 1]

You're not a nice person. ROTFLMAO!! How does Sister Verdeen find a blanket but nobody had any bobby pins?

So. My only problem with this, aside from its notrueism :) is that, generally, when somebody is the star, the implication is production would slow or cease to exist without them. {{MissMillievoice}} that's how Nene found out it wasn't her eitha. I think she gets a lot of attention because when she comes off the rails that's some compelling tv right there, whether she's playing a character or not. And by now I think they can tell the difference. In "character" she's kind of tongue in cheek nicety. When she puts her ass on her shoulders and gets real Trumpish with it, everything is personal and the tweets come zinging out all over the place. Either you wanna take umbrage on behalf of the ensemble cast or this show would die without you, which is it? I don't think any one of em, they all take their turn in the spotlight. I have a feeling if Kenya stomped off, Andy (and the rest of her castmates) would be like:

sorry lol, I couldn't help myself everybody's .gif game is on fleek today.

Try to keep up Z. She sucks as a person, is miserable, nasty, batshit crazy, and has bad skin but dammit, people are talking about her so she's winning! Nanny nanny boo boo. Also, don't forget, this isn't the real Kenya. The real Kenya is a lovely, talented human being. This is all an act. That's right, she destroyed her legacy and goodwill for reality show fame. Aren't you jealous?

[S08.E18: Reunion Part 1]

Did Cynthia say anything other than the big head comment? I just realized she was basically a non-factor.

[S08.E18: Reunion Part 1]

Is it just me or did Andy throw more shade at Kenya than he usually does at Housewives? Don't get me wrong, I loved it. I'm just wondering why Andy all of a sudden is throwing a little shade himself. I wonder if it's to protect Kim F.? Or if he really doesn't like Kenya? Or if Kenya did something to piss him off?

I always thought Andy loved Kenya but on her last WWHL I noticed he wasn't feeling her. It was right after the chair episode aired. He was shady all night and he even shaded Matt who was bartending. It was weird. I don't care either but it does make me wonder.

[S08.E18: Reunion Part 1]

I would bring it up too. Because regardless of Apollo's terrible attempt at being a husband, Kenya still had to preface her first season with a fake man. So if you're gonna be in my face telling me how I'm not even cute enough to be your 3rd runner up, we WILL discuss how you have to find your men in Craigslist ads.

This. Kenya is blessed and highly favored that these women have the tiniest smidgen of...class? tact? compassion?...not to come for her relationship with her mother. After that AIDS comment a few years back and the upcoming dick in your mouth comment, the gloves would have been/would be AWF. That oatmeal pie would be soggy with tears.

[S08.E18: Reunion Part 1]

I think Porsha made a good point about Kenya's need to push people into big reactions that could easily become physical. Porsha also admitted that "she has a problem" with controlling her own reactions....aka/getting physical with others, which was good to hear, even if it is because Bravo made her get help as it has been rumored in a blog or two. Now if only Kenya would admit to her end of that game she so loves to play and getting the help she needs. One at a time I guess. LOL

Yeah I'm glad she got out in front of that because I heard they come for her about it later. I wonder if she's in anger management. If so, that's a good look. I'm rooting for Porsha but she has to learn to control herself.

[S08.E18: Reunion Part 1]

Why was Kenya shading Andy? That swallow comment was gross, and second only to the upcoming "dick in your mouth" comment she throws at Porsha. She's so vulgar and nasty, yuck. I remember her pearl clutching over being called Moore whore a few years ago. That pales in comparison.

I agree with Porsha, I was living for Kim tonight. She looked good and she was smart to let social media handle Kenya. Twitter is roasting her ass right now.

I was also living for Sheree and Kandi's ki ki corner and Kandi going off on Phaedra.

I fell out when Porsha admitted that yes she has a problem but she's talking about Kenya's problem right now lmao.

I was thoroughly entertained. I hope part 2 is just as good.

[Underground - General Discussion]

Is it me or did Bareback Shaw look like Hilary Clinton?

That whole scene was trippy. I had to watch it again to understand what I was looking at LOL. And I loved Noah tricking plantation Don Lemon (thank you for that) into taking one for the team.

[Underground - General Discussion]

Can Noah and Rosalee be any hotter? *ships mercilessly*

This show is amazing.

[S01.E07: Conspiracy Theories]

I am of two minds when it comes to this show. I always believed OJ did it, even before the Bronco chase.

But, I can't hate on the defense lawyers. Decades ago, I was shopping in a store and a store security guard grabbed me and accused me of shoplifting because I looked like a girl who shoplifted from that store the day before. I was only 14 years old, he opened my bag and then, when he didn't see anything, said I could leave. The thing is, I would NOT want to live in a country where the state could just decide that a person was guilty and that was that. In this society you need people like Cochran just to make sure some overzealous prosecutor and police officer won't just throw you in jail.

I agree. I think it's easy to call defense lawyers scumbags and slimeballs when you can't conceive of a time you would ever need one.

Johnnie Cochran was brilliant. His client may have been a scumbag but it wasn't his job to make moral judgments. His job was to provide the best defense. He did that. No matter how noble this show makes Darden and Clark out to be, if I were on trial for my life, I wouldn't want the defense version of those two on my case. Cochran all the way.

[S01.E07: Conspiracy Theories]

Yeah there's no way Bob Shapiro was strolling through the courtroom trying evidence on as if he were at Macy's, like ooh these gloves are cute. I will never believe that. I know the trial was a circus but that's just too much.

Chris took all the Ls tonight.

DS was good tonight showing his growing doubts. His reaction to the verdict has been discussed a lot irl so it was nice to see some foreshadowing tonight.

[S01.E07: Conspiracy Theories]

This show continues to entertain. From Johnnie's ex-wife and mistress on A Current Affair (hell hath no fury. Damn) to the glove, I was riveted. I felt for Darden (SB is really nailing it) in that moment. What a colossal fail. On national TV. On a day you thought you nailed it. Heartbreaking for the prosecution. I don't think I grasped what that moment meant at the time.

I feel you Marcia. I, too, am a better speaker when I'm tipsy. I did a shot before a conference presentation once and killed it. That's the Marcia who needed to make closing arguments.

[Season 8 Spoilers, First Look Previews, Gossip, Etc.]

I don't get it...we're here for Todd reading Phaedra regarding comments she made about him but Chris deserves to get punked by Matt for asking Kenya to clarify statements she made about him? That's kinda unfair.

I agree that Matt should have stayed out of it at that point. Kenya can speak for herself and defend the statements she made. Especially the lie she told about knowing him and the rumors back when she filmed Living Single (Kim was married to a different man back then).

[Underground - General Discussion]

I know field slaves had it bad but I feel like the house slaves didn't have an easy time of it either.

Absolutely. It's a common misconception but even on this show you can see that field slaves had a bit more autonomy after the work was over. They could go to their own quarters and spend time with their own families (until they were sold away, that is). House slaves were essentially always "on." Some even slept on the floor by the master or mistress' bed just in case they needed anything. And of course the threat of sexual assault was always there because of their proximity to the man of the house.

I'm here for this show. I think the opening was solid and I can't wait for the real action to start.

[S01.E06: Marcia, Marcia, Marcia]

It's easier to say the black jury wanted revenge on whitey, the black jury was too stupid to comprehend anything and Johnnie Cochran was a racist asshole who ginned up black fury at whitey than to admit the LAPD was a bunch of clowns who mishandled evidence in a very high profile case and the prosecutors were outmatched by OJ's lawyers and in over their heads.

The Rodney King jury was not called stupid or incompetent either. Nor was the Robert Blake jury.

The bottom line is juries are often called stupid, incompetent, racist etc. when they don't vote the way we think they should vote. This particular jury gets it more than most because of the racial makeup of the jury and the fact that we all in this country believe that black people are inherently unintelligent.

But, but...domestic violence! OJ was beating Nicole's ass! Why didn't they convict?!

At the time domestic violence was regarding as people's private business. OJ's abuse of Nicole and Denise Brown's testimony may not have resonated with the mostly female jury because even after all the beatings the Brown family was still living it up on OJ's dime. If it was that bad, why are you still hamming it up with him? Once the money stopped, OJ was a bad, bad man, it seems.

Here is the case of an actor who was beating his wife around the same time the OJ trial was going on. Nobody seemed to care that this actor was beating his pregnant wife; he was just "troubled. http://articles.latimes.com/1995-06-08/local/me-10843_1_sasha-mitchell

Selective (racial) outrage. I don't even take it seriously anymore.

[S01.E06: Marcia, Marcia, Marcia]

"Sour grapes"? You're reducing anger and frustration because two horribly murdered victims never got justice while their killer smirked in court day after day to "sour grapes"? Seriously? This isn't a football game.

I sure am. Lots of killers aren't convicted because of reasonable doubt. The jurors may even feel the defendant did it but just can't convict because one or more key pieces of evidence are questionable or the timeline is off or a key witness lied. The list goes on. That's just how our legal system works. Always has.

I get the anger and frustration. I've seen plenty of tragic cases end this way.

[S01.E06: Marcia, Marcia, Marcia]

It's obvious to me why the jury acquitted. If you can't trust the evidence, there's your reasonable doubt.

This revenge theory sounds like sour grapes to me, especially because it requires the belief that the four non-black jurors also wanted revenge.

[S01.E06: Marcia, Marcia, Marcia]

This show is about Clark, Darden and Cochran. OJ Is just an afterthought. Shapiro and Bailey are comic relief. I did like the scene at the bar with the Cochrane team and Bailey, as it was good to see that the dream team could sometimes get along.

I almost wish this was fiction because I found the scenes with Clark and the new perm hilarious. Awful, but hilarious. How she didn't throttle the store clerk is beyond me.

I realize that some people may think that black people are monolithic, but that was one juror out of 12. And not all the jurors were black.

Right. That's like assuming Mark Furmhan represents all white people. Or cops.

It was nice to see the female attorney get some lines. Her facial expressions are great but she didn't leave Lab Rats just to pull faces.