Deanie87

Are Penny and Callie still together? She could leave if they break up (yes, please to both). Maybe it is too painful for her to work with an ex (not to mention everyone else that hates her in the hospital LOL). Also, is Penny supposed to be at Jo and Steph's level? If so, why was she in the lab with Cross and the interns? Why weren't Jo and Steph there? So many questions!

That's pretty much where I am with the episode. I thought it was a fine episode as far as it goes, but way too many details got glossed over and too many questions either didn't get answered or got answered poorly. I expected it, but I am still disappointed. Do we even know how much time elapsed between the finale and this episode? The acting was fine, but I really thought a lot of it was overwrought and came off as false to me. I was completely unmoved, for example, by Alex practically bursting into tears when he saw Meredith. Sure she looked bad and I"m sure it is scary to see your friend in such a condition, but him wiping his tears on his sleeve as he worked on her just didn't work for me, I didn't buy it. Him showing up with her kids and his and his and Mer's relieved and emotional laughter when she got her hearing back seemed so much more natural and was so much more reflective of their true bond, IMO. (Although it was very reminiscent of his scene with Izzie when she gets her memory back I thought.) And Meredith's frustration at being in the hospital and her cranky looks, etc., worked better for me than the panic attack. The smaller moments that were character based were a lot better. I loved the scene with Arizona putting makeup on Meredith and especially the scene with Richard. That was my favorite of the whole episode. I will applaud EP for her absolute lack of vanity, though. She looked like a patient, and one who had been through the ringer. Her eyes looked beautiful though. As for the bolded part, did Meredith realize she has been selfish? Or at least bitchy? I"m not sure she did. Yeah, she knows that Jo loves Alex, so why has she been so dismissive of her and their relationship then? Jo didn't seem to have a problem with Alex being there for Meredith. She had a problem with being treated like dirt. Will that just magically change now that Meredith has given her Good Housekeeping Seal to Alex?

I hope that that her coyness about a potential Mer/Alex relationship is just a tease/her not wanting to give anything away about Riggs. But now I'm nervous and getting that Gizzie/Callie feeling all over again.

I have learned not to trust what the actors say, either because they have no idea what will actually make it to screen or because they are trying their best to put lipstick on a pig (to use a vulgar quote). But even a month is too long of a time jump, IMO, considering how they left things in the last episode. And I truly believe that they are doing this to soften the blow for when Meredith starts dating again. The problem is that this really, really screws nearly every other character. So I am just to accept that Owen, April, Jackson, Amelia, Penny, Callie, Arizona, etc. have just been in a holding pattern this whole time? And I guess Alex and Jo have been broken up, but Jo's answer to a proposal and Alex's feelings about it are totally unimportant. All of the longing and angst that, frankly, Jo and Alex need in order to show that Alex really gives a shit about anyone but Meredith, is just non-existent because we have to get Meredith back in the saddle. Just imagine the uproar if that happened with a big MerDer milestone. And it sounds like Meredith will swoop in and "fix" whatever is ailing Jo and Alex. Sorry, but I find that infuriating and insulting and totally diminishes the character growth that both Jo and Alex need. I swear, I don't hate Meredith, and I know that I am a broken record about this, but it really and truly sucks to be a fan of this show sometimes. If TPTB want to completely revamp and re-focus the show to solely serve Meredith and the 2-3 people in her orbit (but not really Alex), then they should be honest about it, cut 10 people from the cast (as it is, I think that at the very least SaRa is leaving) and let the rest of us get on with our lives. Seriously. ETA - Even if the other characters get their stories told in flashback (which sounds like will be the case for Jackson and April) I still think that it is poor storytelling and unfair to the characters. Why bother setting up cliffhangers only to then retro-actively tell a story that should have been told forthrightly and fully?

On a shallow note, what's with all these old-timey hottie presidents? First Teddy Roosevelt and now Garfield! Forget Poldark and the men of Downton, the real man-candy can apparently be found at the Hall of Presidents! ETA - I just finished watching and how heartbreaking! That Dr. Bliss is just as responsible for Garfield's death as the assassin. He should have lost his medical license at the very least, but that doesn't appear to be the case. How frustrating!

But that's so kind and uplifting! I say we all channel all of our hate and bitterness against the one character we can agree on - Penny we are coming for you :)

Forgive me for getting melodramatic about a tv show, but I swear I still have PTSD from last season, and that colors how I feel about the spoilers and upcoming episodes now. My trust (which was barely hanging on by a thread) in these showrunners and writers is gone after that unmitigated disaster and I no longer feel that they are capable, or even interested in, writing cohesive stories for all of the characters. Even though they keep adding ever more characters, I don't believe that they have any interest in Greys being a true ensemble the way it was previously, or to tell the stories of anyone other than a handful of characters who will surround Meredith and their focus will be to serve her stories. I think that they are more interested in shocking Twitter fodder, gimmicky episode and stunt casting/directing and basically becoming Scandal and/or HTGAWM, with a powerful woman at the center. Now this may sound like a dream to some fans, but it isn't really what I want to see. As I've said before, hopefully I will eat my words, but based on the recent past and everything we know now, I don't think so.

Thats where I am as well. I guess for someone who isn't a Jolex fan, them staying together and being happy would be enough, but if that were the case then I would have been thrilled with the last year and a half and I definitely haven't been. I actively want them to break up. Right now, their relationship isn't doing either of them any favors. Alex completely takes Jo for granted and Jo seems to be losing herself to the relationship. I want them to have a real storyline that lasts more than an episode and for them both to figure out what they really want. And them staying together ain't gonna do it. My guess is that Jo said no and they are not together at the beginning of the episode but then Meredith gives either Jo or Alex a pep talk (probably Jo) and they decide to get back together by the end of the episode. That doesn't make me happy at all. Why would I want a MARRIAGE situation dealt with in an episode that is completely about another character? Yes, I guess we will wait and see, but it looks to me like the same old thing when it comes to Jo, and especially, Alex. ETA: Just as fun as it always been LOL! Despite my dislike of the way she has been acting for the last couple of seasons, I am not a Meredith hater, but I have been on the receiving end of a LOT of vitriol from her fans (and PD and Mer/Der fans). On TWOP, one loon PM'd me constantly to call me deranged, repulsive, blind, and a horrible person because I dared to mention that I didn't get the all the fuss about PD or Mer/Der, until I finally blocked him/her/it. So it definitely isn't a new thing and it definitely isn't just those who don't care for Meredith.

I guess it depends on how her therapy goes. If it goes well, maybe she is making amends or pleading Alex's case. If it doesn't go well, maybe she is going there to bitch Jo out for breaking Alex's heart, but at least that will show her having Alex's back. That's me being optimistic LOL!

And of course, the big reveal about the breakup has fuckall to do with Alex or Jo, it's all about Maggie and her sex life. Color me shocked. If we found out by Alex confiding privately to Mer, I would have been fine with it, but it was the afterthought I thought it would be. I'm thrilled that Jo said no, but I hate that Alex moved back into the house. Hate. It's such a step back for him and WindSprints is right, this will be his status quo until Meredith starts sleeping with Nathan. Or Alex at this point, who knows?

I know what you mean. These days I stick primarily with mysteries, but I swear I pick up a copy of Lila every 5th trip to the library in hopes that I will have the time to give it the focus and attention it really deserves. Maybe this summer, it will be a very ambitious beach read!

You can try some of the novels by Marilynne Robinson, who is a writer and Christian, but not a Christian-writer, if that makes sense. I recommended Gilead in this thread before. Its a story told from the point of view of a minister who marries late and has a son. The format is the books is really just advice and thoughts for his son, since he knows that he won't be there to see him grow up. It isn't a quick or breezy read, as there isn't much dialogue and there are quite a few biblical references that went right over my head, but she is an extraordinary writer and I think its a very positive view of religion and the comfort that it can bring to people. The novel takes place in the 40s or 50s, I think, but the main character also talks about his father who was an abolitionist and a zealot, so she sort of examines the less positive side of religion as well. I am not really a religious person at all (like I said, many of the references were not familiar to me), but I love this book and take every opportunity to recommend it! She has written others, and two of them involve the same characters as Gilead, but that one is my favorite. Fun fact: President Obama interviewed her about her writings and her take on religion and Christianity, and it was a really good interview.

I wasn't sure how I was going to like this, but I am here for the duration! I was in my early 20s when it all went down, and I was only followed it casually, but it amazed me how much I remembered as it aired. When they said "Rockingham Drive" it all started coming back to me. The dog's name, the friends/hangers on (Resnick, Paula Barbieri), etc. I didn't think that I was paying all that much attention, but it just goes to show you how entrenched this case was in the culture. For those of you who weren't old enough to live through it, I don't think its possible to overstate how huge this was at the time, and how much it hit a nerve. Being just out of college and very much in my naive bubble, I was shocked at the racial attitudes of people I had known all of my life, black and white. This was the first time in my life that they thin veneer of civility was pulled away and people's real thoughts were exposed, not just about racism, but attitudes toward the police, inter-racial marriage, infidelity, etc. it all came out and rocked my little self-centered world. Interesting that you can see how the case was bungled from the get-go and I loved the disbelief of the DA's office when OJ escaped while there were like 10 other people at the house, including police officers! I also appreciate how much OJ's celebrity played a part, and how that affected his treatment all through the trial. As much as it was about race, it was also about "the haves" and celebrity.

I just finished James Lee Burke's The Tin Roof Blowdown on audiobook. It is the 10th or 11th in the Dave Robicheaux series and the one he wrote after Hurricane Katrina (the series takes place in and near New Orleans), and wow. It was absolutely wonderful and heartbreaking. The narrator, Will Patton, is so good that this series is one that I prefer to listen to rather than read. He captures the nuances of characters so well, from Louisiana politicos, Southern Blanche du Bois types, Cajun policeman, poverty stricken young black men, and east coast mobsters. All of it is natural and none of has even a whiff of stereotype or caricature. In this book in particular, the narrator was a great extension of Burke, his rage and sorrow are palatable, and I teared up quite a few times at the description of the post-Katrina destruction and the desperation of those who were left to die and the frustration and anger at those who used the opportunity to loot, kill and other crimes. I think that Burke is a great writer, even though his language can get a bit florid at times and the themes tend to repeat themselves. But this one was on a whole other level I thought.

Yes, I have been very frustrated with Jo lately. That isn't to say that Alex and/or Mer, for example, have behaved well either, but I am ready for her get her confidence back and be assertive about everything. I agree about the proposal. Right now, the relationship isn't really showing either of them in a great light. Jo looks as if she is consumed with her relationship to the exclusion of all else, and Alex looks like he completely takes Jo for granted. And to be fair to Jo, Meredith and Izzie also got so caught up in their personal life that their careers fell by the wayside, and I didn't like it then either. One more thing that Jo and Mer have in common, not that the writers will ever acknowledge it. My worst case scenario is that Jo says yes, and then Alex immediately runs off to cry at Meredith's bedside. Not that he shouldn't be there for Meredith, but I think we have all seen enough of that situation, while Jo looks on from the outside. So I hope she says no, kindly though, and Alex can then go off and nurse Mer while (hopefully) pining for Jo as she kicks ass as a surgeon. I also hope that Jo moves in with Steph rather than Alex moving back in to the sorority house. Episode 10 will be interesting as far as the patient that everyone is fighting over. It will put Jo in an awkward place so that may cause more tension, especially because you know that Alex will be completely in the wrong and the Superwomen will be in the right. ETA - double post

Thanks for bringing that over! Hallelujah that Jo will finally be doing some good doctoring, and it sounds like it will be with Callie so that makes me very happy. I really hope that she turns down Alex's proposal, and does it before Meredith gets attacked, but eh, whatever. I am much more interested the end to her professional floundering and becoming real competition for Stephanie. Interesting that it was Chandra Wilson who told CL about Jo's backstory while she was directing her, and that it didn't come from the writers at any point before that episode was being shot. That kind of explains a lot.

I am rewatching the series on my PBS channel and I just watched an episode where a suspect says something about how she would have a hard time keeping her hands to herself around Joe, and Vera replies that it actually just the opposite, HA!! We really do get just enough hints about Vera that make me want to know so much more. Apparently she was involved with a fellow police officer that died, but that is really the only sort of romantic life information we have ever gotten. And didn't she or Joe discover that she had family in the area? I can't remember if it was a child of her dad's or cousins or something, but I remember one episode ending with her knocking on a door and the implication was that she had reached out to them. I can't remember exactly, but I just hope that it was an episode featuring Joe and not the new guy!

Alex is my favorite and I want him to be happy and Jo seems to make him happy. If nothing else, she supports him more than any other character ever has. So I do root for them, but I have been extremely disappointed in the way that have written (or to be more precise, not written) her as an individual and them as a couple. I think that they have a lot of potential that could be explored, but for whatever reason, they just won't do it. I think that their similar backgrounds, anger issues and underdog resident status, for example, could all make for interesting and semi-original drama, but they choose to involve a third party time and again. So now I am kind of ambivalent and just hope that JC leaves at the end of the season. I have always loved the Mer/Alex friendship and still do from time to time, but it needs to become a LOT less one-sided in order for me to keep enjoying it. If Meredith's attack, therapy and the aftermath actually involve other characters (and there is plenty of ways that it could) and brings about further understanding of those characters separate from Meredith, then I will eat my words and cheer the ingenuity of the writers. If, for example, Jo can connect with Meredith through the shared experience of being violently assaulted, then great. Or if Jackson and Meredith can actually have a real conversation where Jackson reveals how it felt to grow up with a strong, and sometimes abrasive, single mother I will be thrilled. But based on experience, Meredith's attack will be all about people rallying around Meredith and to give Penny a redemption arc so that she can then become a regular. In other words, I am not rushing out to buy chocolate sauce to smother over the words that I will be potentially eating :) I still haven't gotten over my disappointment and anger at the way last season was handled, so any inkling I have that the majority of screen time is going to go toward new characters or the same small few, or that a storyline for my favorites is going to end before it begins, it just annoys me all over again. That appears to be what is happening here, given what we know right now, but I will keep chocolate sauce on my grocery list for the time being.

Is anyone else watching/able to watch? I am really, really curious to see how things are going to go down with Jackson and Susan. Not only because she has now murdered yet again, but I can't imagine that her presence is going to stay a secret during the whole season, and then some. But I can't see Reid and Drake just overlooking the fact that she is now free. Not to mention Conner (or is it Colin?) I can't see the Drakes being happy about giving him up (well, maybe Rose LOL), but I also can't imagine Susan just being fine with letting them keep him either. Since Jackson and Susan are my favorites, I am getting nervous about their eventual fate, given all the current circumstances. Edited because I can't remember what the little boy's name is.

Exactly, which is why I think that dropping/delaying of a bunch of cliffhangers (about characters who were virtually ignored last season) after a 3 month hitatus, in favor of something completely new, is poor planning. I understand why the spoilery stuff surrounding Alex/Jo and Jackson/April isn't addressed, but from the scarce information we have, it is either not going to be addressed at all right away, or it will be addressed in passing by other characters. I find that aspect of it weird and bad planning on the writers' part, not to mention unfair to the characters' involved. I guess that might be true for some viewers, but I think that plenty of people aren't up for yet another Meredith trauma, and are actually interested in seeing what happens with the others. It just seems like Grey's has decided to completely follow the Scandal and HTGAWM's playbooks and every few episodes has to have some jaw dropping (though totally predictable) hashtag-worthy scenario, whether it makes sense or fits into the season as whole or not. I feel you on behalf of every other character who has suffered untold trauma and never get any counseling (which is basically every single one of them.) Other than Meredith and Owen, I don't think that any of them have had real therapy after suffering a great ordeal. And lord knows, they all need it.

The more information I read about the next few episodes, the more confused I get. Last season the majority of the overloaded cast was completely ignored and timelines and semi-established storylines got completely dropped or changed, while a handful of characters (2 of them absolutely brand new) got the majority of screentime. After all of the drama and turmoil of the last season, we get only 8 episodes and a nearly 3 month break. The last episode left on quite a few cliffhangers (Amelia drinking, Alex's proposal, Jackson's response to April and Owen and Nathan), yet only the Owen/Nathan one has been addressed in spoilers. But our first episode back appears to be a completely out of the blue different storyline that has absolutely nothing to do with where we left off nearly 3 months ago. (And I won't even get into how ridiculous and overplayed I find that particular storyline to be). I had hopes for episode 10 because, seriously, they actually set something up for other storylines, but again the synposis addresses not one of the cliffhangers, except Owen/Nathan. I don't get it, I really don't. I realize that some of this is out of Shondaco's control, and that we still have two weeks until the premiere, and that the episode descriptions don't always reflect what we actually see, but does any of this seem off or just bad planning to anyone else? Is it just me? I am trying my best to give them the benefit of the doubt, and hope that all of this serves some kind of purpose for characters other than Meredith, but at this point, it doesn't look good, at least not anytime soon. And that makes over 2 years since my favorite characters have gotten any kind of real storyline. The only thing I am actively rooting for is for Jo to pick a mentor and kick ass as a surgeon, so that I can bear her scenes again. I don't care anymore if she and Alex get married, break up, cheat or enter into some kind of polyamorous union with Meredith and the ghost of Denny. I have given up on Alex ever getting anything to do that doesn't involve someone's else more important storyline, even though he is second billed at this point, or on Jo and Alex as a couple to have any of their issues (which are interesting to me and have not been utterly played out on this show, IMO) explored with any depth at all. My absolute biggest hope is that Justin Chambers leave at the end of the season and then maybe I can enjoy watching him elsewhere.

How about Ellis? If this is Meredith's turning point, a visit from Jacob Marley showing her How Things Might Be if she doesn't change her ways would certainly be in order.

I agree, I doubt it is KH, though Ausiello seems to be a big fan of hers and loves to tease her return. The article said that his/her scenes have already been filmed so if it was someone from Grey's then it would have to figure it to one of the semi-recent storylines (at least I think, maybe they could just edit the footage into a future episode??) If it was KH, a Jo/Alex wedding would be the "perfect" time to show up, although I don't know that Alex would really care that much anymore. That might finally do it for me! Now Kyle Chandler would be a different story....But if JDM is revisiting old roles, he needs to be checking in to Supernatural first.

The timeline on this show has always been a complete mess, starting with the fact that the 5 original interns were interns for 4+ years, so the characters weren't supposed to have aged in any of that time, and then later on they skip months and even years like it is no big deal. And even when that works for a few characters, it doesn't ever work for all of them and so things get even more muddled. Then add the fact that there are kids who are aging too fast or not fast enough and a couple of actors who are supposed to be 8-10 years younger than they really are and it gets even more confusing and unbelievable. As for as the giant cast, I don't like it either, but opinions about who is "important," who is expendable, and who "deserves" storylines, focus, main cast status, etc., are completely subjective. It seems to me, from what I have read on The Internet, that many of the fans who still watch and participate in discussion about the show (on Twitter, message boards, etc.) have their favorites and don't necessarily still watch the show as a whole, but more for whatever small focus "their" characters get. But the vast majority of viewers, the ones who don't obsess over the show or comment on social media, watch out of habit and enjoy some stories more than others, but don't really care one way or another. I have a few friends who have watched from day 1 and still don't know all of the characters' names, even those that have been there for years and years. They will think a couple is cute together or that someone is annoying, and they might roll their eyes at the latest disaster or cast member departure, but beyond that they take it for what it is. And they will probably watch until the show ends, again just because they always have. And I'm sure ABC is completely fine with that.

I will be fine with the next episode (and the aftermath) as long as it advances the story overall and doesn't end up being just a gimmicky one off. If, for example, this attack somehow causes Meredith to get to therapy and lose, or at least explain, that edge that (IMO) has been an unwelcome part of her personality for the past couple of seasons, then great, I"m all for it. If the presumed therapy improves her relationships with other characters and allows them to move on within their OWN story, then it will make sense to me. Or if the attacker is known to us (Owen, Penny, Cross), then at least the story branches out beyond "yet another thing that happens to Meredith," and it will give that character and those close to him or her something to do (maybe its Cross, he has done nothing except moon over Jo and that has gone nowhere). If we finally get some real backstory on Owen and his story with Nathan sn't just an excuse for him and Amelia to keep dancing around each other brokenly, or to pave the way for a Nathan/Meredith hook up, then great. But I have a feeling that this episode IS going to end up being "just one more thing that happens to Meredith" and that doesn't excite me, no matter how gimmicky the episode, how well Ellen acts in it or how famous the director. If what happens to Meredith has real ramifications for a few other characters (and ones that make sense) or the hospital, then I will admit that I underestimated the writers.