ohhellsyeah

Ian McShane. That is definitely on my wishlist.

Petunia, I saw those tweets. It was so funny! I still haven't finished the last season of Justified. It was a disapppointing season. Since next season will be the last, I really hope they can step it up. I'm still holding out hope that they can get Ian McShane for the last season.

I've never been clear if this is a booktalk or no booktalk thread. Mods?

This is nobody's fault but mine, but I really wish I hadn't clicked on that spoiler.

It didn't cause me to dislike Claire, but it did make me side eye her choices. Maybe since Jack loved his brother so much he wasn't a bastard to Mary, but I really doubt it. Even though he couldn't have sex with her, there were plenty of other torture options available to him. Asking Jamie not to go after Jack was a hell of a thing to do, especially since Jack could have done the same thing to anyone else. And then he did. Poor Fergus. There is so much rape/sexual assault in these books. I really wouldn't mind if some of it gets cut in the show. The attack on Mary and Claire, for example, is not particularly important to the plot. At this point, I think if I made a list of characters who haven't been raped, it would be a short list.

Ha!Nidratime, me too. I'm so lost (and don't know who half these characters are) so I think it's time for me to peace out on this conversation. :) I will say in general that since time travel is not possible, I don't really require it to make sense. The key is to make the rules within the fictional universe consistant.

Yeah, I heard about that although I haven't read that book. Until I do, I will continue to pretend it didn't happen. Although, now that I think about it perhaps it is just the mental image it conjures up. Claire running through the rain looking for a clock tower and I don't think they have clock towers in the highlands. This is really making me want to rewatch Back to the Future.

I don't know if this the right thread to bring it up, but someone in on of the other threads mentioned that Claire should send a message to her future self. First of all, I don't think the postal system was that reliable in 1743 and second, wasn't that a huge plot point in Back to the Future 2? I would HATE if the show went there!

Yeah, that's what I was doing. Plus making a really terrible Frozen joke. Maybe people don't pick up on that when they don't have 5 year olds singing it at them all day, every day. I certainly wasn't trying to be the thought police.

Well, when you're right you're right. I don't consider myself a book purist, but there has definitely been some pouting going on. Maybe it's time to . . . let it go. :) As a casual Once Upon a Time fan, I have no problem with the Frozen characters, but as a kindergarten teacher I will throw something at my TV if I hear That Song. Lol.

I partially agree. I think RDM is a little too enamoured with Tobias Menzies and wanted to give him more to do. It kind of reminds me how how wrote Lee/Kara/Sam in BSG. Once Sam came into the scene, RDM didn't have much use for Lee's character, so I think being distracted by certain characters to to detriment of others is a weakness in RDM's writing. OTOH, I think they have banked too much on fans liking Jamie/Claire. It's like they decided the fans loved them so much they didn't have to show/sell the relationship but actually you do. Or perhaps they think the wedding episode was enough, but again it's really not. They need to show us more of Jamie/Claire to make her choice a believable one.

I mostly agree with that timeline, but guessing the witch trial gets a whole episode. Also, I agree with the previous poster that a 10/6 split might have been better. A lot of the complaints are probably driven by the midseason finale being such a lackluster episode.

I totally agree that it's not going to play well. I also don't think there's going to be a lot of time in the second half to have the necessary relationship building scenes because there is so much plot to get through. The strapping scene. The return to Leoch. The witch trial. Lallybroach. Wentworth and the aftermath. It is a lot. I think the pacing in the first half should have been faster AND there should have been more Jamie.

I don't have anything fresh to add other than I have been concerned with the lack of character development for Jamie since the 4th or 5th episode. I have liked all the other changes that have been made but now I don't know how choosing Jamie makes any sense. Especially with the strapping scene coming up. I think part of the problem is they took the Jamie/Claire relationship for granted and assumed everyone would be on board. Honestly, if I were a non-book reader at this point I would assume Frank/Claire are the end game couple. I worry that there is not enough time to fix this and if Jamie/Claire aren't developed enough that future events on the show simply will not work.

I remember them calling them lobsterbacks in the books.

I think they've done enough to make Frank's character sympathetic. There are people who are actually on Team Frank and that just seems kind of mean. They're gonna be disappointed.

I know that the show coming back in January/February was only speculation, but I am still bummed. Game of Thrones comes back in April. The NHL playoffs start in April. And the season hasn't even started yet. The very special hell known as Kindergarten graduation rehearsals starts in April. How am I supposed to devote my fangirl energies properly to you show? How? More seriously, I think coming back in the same month as Game of Thrones is a mistake. I realize they aren't on at the same time but it will be pretty hard to get any press or generate any buzz. Maybe your Facebook feed is different from mine but I'm pretty sure nobody will be talking about Outlander.

4 years? Wow. I would have given up at least 3 years and 11 months earlier. I am also rereading this book and maybe I read it more than I thought because I'm remembering the plot pretty well. Right now I really want to yell at Jamie not to trust Stephen Bonnet. Ugh.

I can completely understand that. I would want to cry too.

Tina, that is my only issue with the ring. It's ugly! I don't really mind that he gave it to her earlier than in the books.

My opinions: Let me show you them

I agree, although I am not sure if I buy that it is intentional or not. Perhaps the 18th century style stuff just suits her coloring/body type/whatever more. She practically glows with her hair pulled back and in the 18th century dresses. I think that first observation is a good one. BSG was as bleak as anything else that has ever been on television (including Game of Thrones), but without the excessive gore/exploitative sex that permeates premium cable. For me, he hasn't crossed the line in either regard but I know a lot of people who wouldn't be comfortable with it and that is not wrong. Everyone has their boundaries with that they will or will not watch (or read) and that's fine. On the second point, I disagree that Ron Moore would take on a project that spans eight novels on the advice of the women in his life. That is a hell of a career commitment. 8 years is a long time. It is and I'm sorry if you feel like you are being ganged up on, but I've given this some thought I have something to say on the subject. All genre writing is subject to tropes, it is simply that the tropes in each genre are different. That is what makes it genre writing. The thing that irks me as someone who does read romance is that it is the most denigrated genre. Sure nobody thinks that fantasy or crime fiction is the same as literary fiction, but it doesn't get the same level of scorn. I am not suggesting that Diana Gabaldon should be considered for the Pulitzer, but it bugs that the one genre that is written by women and for women is constantly looked down upon. I am not saying that you are doing this, but merely suggesting that this is why a lot of people have been a bit defensive about the subject. And again as someone who has read almost every genre there is, I don't think that Outlander fits squarely into the romance novel archetype. If I say more I think I will get into book talk territory, so I'm not going to. Well, most of my comparisons are some what tongue in cheek. Who can drink more, Cersei or Claire? (Claire because she drinks whiskey as well as wine, but do we all not think that Claire would be dead within 5 minutes of being in Westeros? Jamie could last an episode and Dougal an entire season, but Claire would be toast). Also, Outlander wedding > than GoT wedding because nobody dies is also a joke. The only shows that I watch because I think they are legitimately good (rather than simply watching them because there is nothing else on) are Game of Thrones, Outlander and Justified. That being said, I am not blind to their faults. I have real problem with how women's bodies and female sexuality are presented on premium cable. I don't have the same genre expectations, obviously. Game of Thrones will probably end with a definitive answer as to who should sit in the iron throne, but with everyone realizing this comes with a price. That price being generally the cost of every friend, family member or lover that the occupant cared about. For Justified, the foreshadowing leads me to believe all of my favourites are gonna die in Harlem. Outlander? Outlander needs to give me the super happy ending and I expect nothing less. I'm sorry for the novel. This probably belongs in another thread, but there is no Outlander vs. other shows thread. Maybe there should be after episide 8.

He obviously remembers Jamie, but does he remember him by name or simply as the red headed dude that he couldn't break? Obviously, he has access to records and such, but perhaps he didn't bother given that there are so many other people he can torture. If any plothole is bugging me it is why Dougal brought Claire along in the first place (no scenes of her treating the McKenzie crofters) and why he let her witness his Jacobite fundraising. But I suppose it happened in another episode and sometimes you have to fanwank the things that are perplexing.

You guys are forgetting the first rule of a GOT wedding: someone's gotta die. Everyone is alive for the time being so I would rather attend a wedding in the Outlander verse than in Westeros.

How great where Angus and Rupert? I almost died. Of laughter.