Mathius

The problem is that, for one thing, Emma isn't the type to just open up emotionally and talk to Snow about their feelings. She's also good at hiding her feelings, so Snow wouldn't notice that it affected her in any negative way and thus she wouldn't bring it up. But for another thing, what is anyone supposed to say to Snow? That she's wrong? Because her feelings are completely understandable: she missed out on her child's first 28 years of life and said child now keeps on rebuffing her attempts at being motherly. It's not a fulfillment of Snow's motherly desires, everyone knows it, including Emma. Talking about how it makes them all feel would accomplish nothing: Snow said what she did and she meant it, and Emma understands that Snow is justified in feeling that way no matter how hurt she is by that. Now, emotional pay-off to it in a different way other than just fruitlessly talking about their feelings is another matter. I think the show accomplished that on Emma's end in the Season 3 finale when she finally owned up to contributing to Snow's feelings of being unfulfilled as a mother and changed her behavior. Where the show has failed spectacularly is on Snow's end, as she's barely responded to Emma's change in behavior and has come off as less and less caring of Emma. A brief exchange of words and a hug in "Smash the Mirror" to resolve Snow's problematic relationship with Emma coming up in "The Snow Queen"...now that was definitely a complete and ridiculous waste of potential emotional pay-off. Also, I agree with Curio on the waste of the Walsh and Hook plot points.

This. All of it.

Care to definie "emotional pay-off"? It seems very vague and subjective.

You're missing the point of the story. Neverland was never meant to have world-building, it pretty much was supposed to be just an Island of Doom: an isolated place where the core cast have nowhere to run away from their issues. And the other complaint just proves that you can't please everyone: I have seen many people complain about the Frozen arc for sacrificing the core cast and their relationships with each other in favor of the Frozen characters who aren't even going to stay the whole arc. And yet there are evidently people, like you, who complain about the opposite with the Neverland arc, where the core cast and their relationships got the limelight as opposed to half-season guest stars who won't matter afterward. Ironic, isn't it? Quoted for total agreement.

Yes, there are things that the writers can and should be held accountable for, but let's also keep in mind that about 20 minutes worth of script gets cut each episode, and we've come to learn that many of those moments are ones that fix a lot of problems the episodes have without them. So even some apparent script problems are actually editing problems. Actually, I kind of agree with her logic: if there's one thing that has been a constant with Regina's character, it's her delusional state of mind and lack of awareness of just how good she's got it. It makes sense that she wouldn't see the obvious here just as she always has.

That right there is the problem, though. The main people SHOULD be the focus of the show and they should be engaging. In 3a, they were, while in 4a, most of them are not save for Emma, Hook and Rumple. Charming and Snow, after getting a much-needed boost in 3a coming off of 2b, are now at their most dull and useless, Regina is at her most insufferable, and Belle is reaching new lows even for her. And even Henry with his Truest Stupid plot is better than Henry with his Operation Mongoose plot, and even Neal was more useful during that arc than his replacement Will Scarlet is in the current arc.Really, out of the main cast only Emma is written better in 4a than in 3a, and she was pretty damn good (for the most part) in 3a too so that isn't very significant praise. Disagree. While I hated the perpetual night choice for Neverland, I like that it was doing something new and original, whereas Arendelle is lifted wholesale from "Frozen". He's more entertaining, but I think he was more complex in the Neverland arc, with all his past issues laid bare and catching up to him as opposed to a simplistic desire for power. I think Pan was a better villain in the traditional sense, but I agree that Ingrid is the better character. As good as Robbie Kay was, I would never want him and Pan to overstay their welcome, whereas I want the show to keep Elizabeth Mitchell and Ingrid forever.

Um, that's not Lily's father who's listed, it's Kevin the bully boy from the video of Emma in Ingrid's foster home. I definitely agree that Lily is gonna be a big 4B character.

This is what I've said before: people who say the show has bad writers is wrong. It has very good writers, Adam and Eddy included if you're talking strictly script-writing. It's Adam and Eddy's SHOWRUNNING, which by extension casts a negative effect on the other writers, that is the true problem. The writers have little choice but to adhere to their lackluster vision. I'd amend that to put 3A with the first group and most non-Frozen stuff of 4A with the second.

I'd rank 3a ahead because 1.) I'm obviously biased. 2.) 3a's weak link plot thread, David's poisoning, has NOTHING on 4a's weak link plot thread, the Regina/Robin/Marian/Henry/Operation Mongoose story of doom.

Also, she was convinced that Anna could save the town. She wasn't actually abandoning them to their fate here like Hook was back in the Season 2 finale.

The ratings for the next episode should indicate why the ratings for this one are so low. If it goes up, then this was a case of Thanksgiving weekend busyness or football. If it stays down, then the 2-hour episode was a half-season killer when it comes to live watching.

No, he only hatted the fairy nuns, Tink has already been shown not to have joined that group and she clearly wasn't present with them in this episode. Also, hat-induced "death" is totally reversible anyway: we're going to get Blue's second resurrection eventually. Difference is that she knew Anna could save the whole town. Hook was out for himself when he took the bean. It needs to be mutually consensual, this has been proven repeatedly in the past. Hard for it to be so when either one or both parties are convinced that they don't like each other. He doesn't care about the problem. He'd actually prefer Storybrooke to be destroyed. It was unfrozen by Ingrid's will, this was stated by Anna. As to why no-one she froze there is dead or ever in danger in dying, they were frozen from the outside. Marian's condition (like Anna's in "Frozen") was a case of internal freezing.

Yeah, such a brat for telling one lie, just as Snow was for telling one secret. Sounds right.No way is she Cruella, though. Wrong nationality, plus the star birthmark doesn't add up. Odds are she's connected to the Sorceror aka the Book Author.

He was arrested. A deleted scene in "Tiny" shows that he's imprisoned in the mines.

Actually, yeah, for his three-count kidnap of Archie, attempted murder of Belle, and memory-wipe of Belle (seperate counts, btw: he attempted to murder her on his ship, but his shooting of her was by his own admission deliberately non-fatal and designed to make her forget Rumple), he got handcuffed in the hospital and then jailed by David until he escaped during the Giant incident. He didn't get re-jailed later on because Neverland happened.

Agreed. Hook's previous apology wasn't sufficient not so much due to insincerity but due to pride. I think by that point he was truly sorry for it because he had come to regret and hate the man he once was...the issue was publically apologizing for it to the woman who is still Rumple's girlfriend and still openly loves him, while Hook still very much hates him. I can definitely see how he'd be thinking "Ugh, I do regret what I did, it was wrong, but do I really have to apologize to HER about it? She's so bloody irritating!" Nevertheless, I would love seeing both Hook and Belle get over their mutual discomfort of each other and become friends, if not just to severely piss off Rumple, whose self-awareness is lacking when it comes to Hook (he didn't "steal Milah", she left with him of her own choice when YOU stubbornly refused to salvage your marriage by moving some place else!)

This is what happens when the most vocal voices, who were calling for less real-life stuff and more fairy tale stuff, are adhered to...the other half of the audience gets lost.

I thought PTSD was obvious as why Rumple relapsed into his addiction. Also, Ruby is back: https://38.media.tumblr.com/d9f995ea8ab2fac662ec71674b998d70/tumblr_nf9wfvZENq1t0igjoo1_1280.png

Look again, Cora's heart DOES have darkness: http://kissthemgoodbye.net/onceuponatime/displayimage.php?album=27&pid=43581#top_display_mediaThe picture posted before was when the darkness had swirled down toward the bottom of the heart since heart darkness is always moving, but it's still visible even there. Cora's heart is far from pure. Also, I think Felix's heart is red because time stands still in Neverland, and Regina confirmed darkness in the heart is something that has to grow overtime.

No, Greg and Blue's deaths by shadow ripping were even worse. I remember in the "Wicked is Coming" special where some cast members even said they'd rather have their hearts crushed than their shadows ripped out since it looked so damn painful.

The Dark Curse was hyped up in the beginning, but yeah, it was kind of shown to be overblown looong before now. Ruby even pointed out that, if you take Regina's domination of everyone out of the equation, it wasn't all bad since there was a lot of crap people WANTED to forget about in favor of a new start somewhere else. If Regina was just kicked out of power by Emma somehow but the curse still went on, with time moving forward now, it'd be fine.

Oh my God, not only is the Sorcerer almost certainly the book's author, Peter Pan got the scroll with Henry's face on it from him just like Ingrid got the scroll with Emma's name on it from him. It just makes too much sense!

No, not really. It's just that Rumbellers harass and bully them about the couple all the damn time, and they need to run damage control whenever one of them accuses them of truthfully showing it to be dysfunctional. Rumbellers are viewers, and Adam and Eddy don't want to lose viewers.

He got on Will's case for being selfish and without honor in their OUATIW flashback. How the tables have turned. It's really sad that he takes Will's advice that is blatantly supposed to be about Marian and instead applies it to Regina.

True, and I think that was super triggering to Ingrid, especially at the end of the flashback. But one big difference Anna still showed was that once Ingrid revealed that she really had wanted to be a family with her and Elsa and that Anna's distrust just reinforced her negative view of people, she was clearly regretful. There were tears in her eyes and everything. Whereas momma Gerta showed no regret for urning Ingrid, just Regina-esque woe and self-pity.