
wknt3
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The Good: The opener. A nice classic example of the crime being discovered and detectives showing up. No personal melodrama intertwined. No showing us the crime in a quick montage where overly loud music tries to distract us from a lack of production value or writing. Best of all we have 2 detectives responding and not Benson showing up to start the investigation. The COTW. Actual police work with actual prosecution,with the Benson nonsense mostly a sideshow instead of the central focus. Plus she actually did some productive work instead of just speechifying. And the entire team actually got to contribute to the plot instead of being glorified extras. Carisi. He was the experienced investigator trying to uncover the truth and willing to call out lies on all side that Benson SHOULD have been. The Bad: Once again we have Benson as advocate and mystical savior instead of cop. Why not just show her like everyone else - investigators whose gut is telling them there is more to the case than the surface trying to get to the bottom of things? She is the most experienced and could even be the best and first to figure it out without being more of a social worker than the the social workers. Overall this was a solid episode. A classic style SVU story with some good performances and a nice distribution of screen time. Dragged down as usual by Mariska's ego, but it was pretty well contained. Not great, but good and in a season that has been mostly meh that is enough.
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The Good: The opener. I always like Leland Orser playing charmingly quirky and it was nice not to see the everything at the start so there is an actual mystery. Even if we know that the perp was going to be the well known character actor who has already been the perp on multiple past franchise episodes. Some and Fin and Carisi scenes. It was nice to see. (And again it shows why he should have been there last episode!) Another Carisi focused episode with lots of actual courtroom content. And they seem to have avoided the traps of either Benson saving him or a prolonged slog of PTSD. The Bad: Not liking the return to Curry and Benson as the only ones who can handle challenging damaged victims in what is supposed to be a specialized unit dedicated to just that. Especially in an episode where there are characters barely used. I like Curry (although it is ridiculous having 2 captains on one squad) and I like that they aren't trying to power through weeks with only 2.5 detectives any more but why not use Bruno or Fin or show us Benson mentoring the new detective? Why have the whole squad in on this when most of them only get a couple scenes? It's just an odd use of resources especially when we are going to be heavy on Benson and Carisi and have to fit in Rollins as well. The last scene with the victim. Of all of the many annoying tropes on this show I think Benson's whispered words of wisdom bringing healing,understanding, and acceptance to the victim might be my least favorite. Overall this was a perfectly cromulent current era SVU episode I guess. Mostly competently written and well acted, but nothing special. Like the last episode this could have benefited from tightening things up a bit and adding more Fin, but that is probably true of just about every new episode. Maybe next week will be interestingly good or bad?
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I don't know. Would SNL ever bring on a criminal to host, just because he's in the news and has a certain populist appeal to some? After making all those jokes about him? Doesn't seem like something Lorne would ever do...
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Approach The Bench: Law & Order General Discussion Thread
wknt3 replied to GHScorpiosRule's topic in Law & Order
Unfortunately with all the OTT unrealistic flourishes like the words on the bullets and the Chief of Detectives giving away key details to "avoid panic", as well as the crime and suspect being caught on multiple cameras yet somehow not having good angles or enough detail to identify the perp it seems like they ripped it from the reboot and not the original run... -
Seasons 1-20 Streaming on Hulu Starting December 16th
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Law & Order: OC In The Media
wknt3 replied to Meredith Quill's topic in Law & Order: Organized Crime
And we now have reports of a new showrunner being named and exclusive backstage footage of their first day on set - -
The Good: Solid acting from everyone, both regular cast and guest stars. Even Mariska avoided overacting for the most part. This was an unremarkable script elevated by above average acting. Carisi telling Benson she wasn't his boss anymore. I hope the writers remember that in the future. The Bad: Yet another hostage situation that SVU somehow stumbles into. And again Benson is allowed to take command and start negotiating instead of the actual specialists. At least she didn't single handedly save the day after botching every major tactical decision so that probably puts it above 75 percent or so of these cases... No Fin and Bruno and Velsasco and Silva were glorified extras. Why not give them the week off and give Fin a big role - actually have the old gang back together for a week? Overall this was an interesting change of pace in that it was a great execution of a a bad concept. As usual it felt like the script could have used another draft, but ESU not ending things earlier and the lack of explanation of some of the motivations of some of the characters could be a matter of editing as the dialogue was mostly quite good. I don't think I liked it as much as most of those commenting here, but it was above average and probably actually good. I really do wish that we had Fin there though - it seems like a huge missed opportunity to do something actually special for the fall finale.
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The Good: Bruno. He actually got to be front and center as promised. Both character and actor were great as usual. Fin. Probably the most screen time this season. Definitely the best material this season and a great mix of snark and sensitivity. When you actually give him some material Ice-T can still bring it and not just coast on charm and viewer good will. Silva and Curry. Both were well used in the COTW. And it was especially nice to see Silva getting actual development for a second week in a row beyond generic tough girl and extra body. The COTW. Nothing new, but at this point there probably isn't anything they can do that hasn't already been done. Just a solid case worked by dedicated, but professional investigators and solved by real police work instead of one captain's genius and victim whispering super powers. The Bad: The Benson/Carisi subplot. I hate it when they make characters we all know well and like into idiots just so Benson can be the one to set them straight. On the other hand it did give her a way to be front and center without taking over the case and let Fin and Bruno actually get the ending they deserved. Overall this was a solid idea well executed. An actual good episode and the first one that actually seems like a template for how they can stay watchable for more than another 15 episodes. I hope we get more of Benson leading while also doing her own thing - if it gets too bad we can just FF and get through a good story of elite investigators investigating a sexually based offense quicker. And if by some chance it is a good, or merely tolerable, subplot we have a win win situation!
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Are you saying all that expertise has turned her soft?
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At this point I doubt Dick Wolf is watching these episodes...
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The Good: They actually gave us some proper "new to SVU" character development work with Silva! Some nice interactions with Bruno who is awesome as usual. FYI writers - this is the kind of thing we should see in episode 1 or 2, not 6. We even got her being a little younger than the rest of the team being a good thing! Hopefully we can build on this and they don't feel a need to trash her like they have all of the other new female main cast members added since KG. It's nice to see Graham Patrick Martin getting work. Apparently he is carving out a niche for being involved in sketchy activity in parks on procedural dramas... The whole squad was involved again with Benson mostly leading and dealing with the victims. I do wish we had gotten a little more of substance for Fin, but at least he got to call bullshit on the ridiculousness of the setup. The Bad: They can't even be bothered to find a reason to bring in the squad? It's just "Liv you're so special that nobody else can solve this"? And now Benson is just calling up the Commissioner? I was half expecting the doctors at the hospital to ask her for medical advice. All of the scenes in the hospital. The epitome of late season Benson worship and lazy cliched SVU writing. Watching it I considered following the episode's lead and stabbing myself, but I decided to just drink half a bottle of whiskey instead. Overall this was uneven, but most of the COTW elements and the fieldwork was pretty strong. If you FF through the scenes of Benson in the hospital it might even be actually good. Unfortunately those scenes are a pretty big chunk of the episode so we just have to settle for competently mediocre with some actual good parts. Which means it's probably one of the better episodes of the season so far.
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Hopefully not one they set up online...
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The Good: The cold open. While I still think that we should drastically cut back on showing the crime and use the openings to feature some of the squad coming into the scene and leave some mystery about what happened, this was very well done as these things go and didn't rely on heavy music and editing to try to create a sense of something happening. It actually made me more interested in what was to come which after all is the job of the opening scene. Fin & Bruno! Working together and showing us SVU detectives can be empathetic while also remaining professional. And being cool as hell and watchable too. Plus they even gave us some characterization and continuity with the watch! They actually gave Velasco something to do! I'm surprised. Even if they probably should have done some more with the undercover op it was nice to see him do more than glare and take up space while occasionally delivering some exposition. And Silva too! Although they still haven't bothered to much in developing characterization or letting her play a major role in solving the case - back in the day she probably would have been the one to go undercover and we would have gotten some background about her past and her POV. But at least she was more than a glorified extra this week. The Bad: JFC. Benson just casually dismisses a Deputy Chief and a trained ESU team???!!! And they actually go along with it????!!! Without bothering to see if she has rapport with the jumper? And then we immediately cut to the victim praising Benson as her lord and savior? Way to ruin a good setup. Benson the victim whisperer heals everyone and figures out the perfect solution that makes everything OK. While I appreciate that she isn't single handedly solving the case and was actually leading and letting the team work, this was still a particularly unsubtle ego stroke for Mariska. With a full house this week and several cast members underserved, what was the point of having Curry there? I quite like the actress and I like the character (although I hate the ridiculous idea of TWO captains working in one squad) but I don't see what she brought that anyone else couldn't have provided if they cared to overcome the idea that only a woman over 35 can truly be wise and empathetic with victims. Overall this was an significant improvement over last weeks sodden mess, but still shows how this current season is less than the sum of its parts and can't be bothered to execute the fundamentals. It was like Game 5 of the World Series all over again...
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I'm with @The Wild Sow and @Zaffy here. The problem is not the premise - they have done these stories before and it's not like this is something that is not happening any more IRL. And as far as it not being believable that anyone would do it - well let's just say that I know a lot of teachers and a lot of social service providers and what we saw is not even on the thin part of the the bell curve as far as parental behavior is concerned. And it's not like nobody on the squad questioned their actions. The problem is the execution - it was clumsily executed from beginning to end and they were more interested in showing Carisi being righteously indignant then in taking any time to give us a bit of nuance or depth. The plot elements could have made for a decent story and as pointed out above have been done better multiple times before. I feel like with another draft or two, or even simply a better edit this would have been passable. There are very few episodes where the central problem is the premise. For every Imposter there are 20 episodes like this one where it's all about execution.
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The Good: Lots of Carisi and some good material that draws on both his established characterization and his history as a cop. Good acting from the guest cast, which is common for the series even in it's current diminished state, but hasn't been as evident this season. Velasco finally got an actual featured moment and made good use of it. The scene by the vending machine was probably the best acting and the best police work of the episode. The Bad: While there was a fair amount of good Carisi material there was also too much of him acting as an investigator and not a prosecutor and no more than a fleeting nod to it maybe not being the best idea for him. No Bruno. And minimal Fin, with nothing that actually played to either the actor's or character's strengths. They still are pretty much wasting Silva. Why bring in somebody new if we aren't going to actually do anything with her? She went from being a spectator to being a warm body whose lines could have been delivered by almost any other character. Mariska seemed to be doing her best to make sure she get in all of Benson's most annoying tropes this week. The close up when she talked about getting justice actually crossed over the line into self-parody. Overall this was a dud. A slog as they trudged through a story they have done so many times before without any effort to shake things up at all. This episode is what you get when you ask AI to create the prototypical later season SVU episode and don't shell out to upgrade from the free version...
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To be fair it is about 1000X more believable that Rollins gets brought back with a promotion than her landing a full time faculty position at Fordham...
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The Good: Finally a good dose of Flin. Especially welcome as he was filling his much needed function of being a caring professional without coming off as an obsessed monomaniac. The other detective from Intelligence. If the new female detective goes the same way every other younger woman they brought in has maybe he can be brought on? A solid COTW with an investigation that flowed competently from A to B without any glaring plot holes or unbelievable twists. The Bad: The return of the overbearing heavy handed sound mix and musical cues in the opening along with the same lack of subtlety in the editing. We get it, these are especially heinous offenses. So after successfully fobbing off Rollins to Fordham NYPD not only brings her back but makes her a Sgt. in an elite unit? I guess she really is a true acolyte of St. Benson. Not to mention that putting Rollins in INTELLIGENCE seems like the set up for a joke instead of a believable plot. I mean have her come back to something she actually knows - doesn't Vice have an opening? They wasted another opportunity to make a retread of a retread interesting by using their new character and developing her. They seem to believe we want them to keep "playing the hits" and are not interested in any sort of new angles. And yes this is pretty much "comfort food" TV at this point, but competent writers know you need to mix in a little something new - even Blue Bloods and NCIS have tried to use new characters to put a little bit of a new spin on the same old stories. We are back to Benson as a superhero with a couple sidekicks. I am hoping that this is because of the KG guest spot and that this is the aberration instead of the more team oriented episodes being the result of Mariska needing time to film her guest spot on the mothership and this being the model we follow the rest of the season. Speaking of Benson's selfishness - a joint investigation doesn't mean that you allow other units to help you investigate your case. And show - you really shouldn't be asking us to root for the protagonist pulling rank on her great friend and protegee to do so. In an episode full of returning bad habits we have the ending where Victim Whisperer Olivia Benson solving everything with her Unique Wisdom and Empathy and then locking up the bad guys. Overall this was another mostly competent meh episode even if it was a tick down from the past couple weeks due to all of the bad habits resurfacing. A C- instead of a C+/B-, but not a train wreck by any means.
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The hardest part of this episode was asking me to believe that so many people were passionately into Hudson University basketball and were freaking out about a coach using them as a stepping stone. They already have a St. John's stand in within the franchise - St. Raymond's. They could have gone with them and not expect me to believe that the whole city was living and dying with an Ivy League/Division III research university athletic program.
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They always do try to call bullshit on Benson's nonsense when there is a crossover and make sure to point out that she is not automatically right. I think Rick Eid is working out some of his trauma from his season running SVU. There are a number through the franchise. Off the top of my head there are a few that come to mind. Briscoe was a corporal in the army. Stabler served in the USMC. Ceretta aluded to military experience, but I don't think they specified branch. Cragen was in the army during Vietnam. Amaro from SVU was an Army veteran involved with prisoners in Iraq. There are probably more that someone here with a better memory will point out. And there is some ambiguity with Fontana - Farina served in Vietnam and the character is largely based on him, and he talks about his time in Vietnam with a suspect, but tells Green he was making it up and it's not really clear if he is running a game on the suspect or doesn't want to share painful memories with Ed.
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It was University of New York. I guess Hudson had to shut down their law school as no firms wanted to hire their grads due to the conflict of interest issues with all of them being witnesses, victims, or perps in multiple active cases...
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True, but there are many ways that they can deliver some comic relief. And just because nobody can do it like Jerry Orbach doesn't mean you stop trying entirely. The later years still had a lot more humorous moments than the current seasons both wry observations and slice of life comedy where the humor came from people being walking NYC stereotypes or simply dumb and/or self-centered. It is a problem of writing not acting - I mean Ice-T is still on SVU but he doesn't get the same amount of snarky one liners he used to. And they still had Sam Waterston until last season who could deliver a quip, even if he was not Steven Hill. I suspect it's the same thing - the writing not being as good. With a little bit of budget cuts tossed in. It's harder to write a gripping courtroom scene and usually requires exposition in the DA's office to set up which is even more difficult to write compellingly. Also many of the great courtroom twists come from seemingly minor characters who we discover later on are much more important - with significantly fewer witness interviews and side characters it is that much harder to pull off.
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The Good: Another Carisi heavy episode. One really nice thing about moving him to ADA has been that they cannot fall back on the series trope that needing to prove a case means the prosecutors don't care about victims. They are keeping Benson front and center without having her do everything herself which is a good sign that they might have finally learned their lesson. Or maybe Mariska simply can no longer keep up with the physical demands of shooting schedules to be in every scene. Either way it is a nice to see an actual squad again even if they didn't use the rest of the team well (more on that below). They actually managed to pull off the story with some degree of realism. There was additional concern about getting things right and access due to connections balanced out by also not wanting to show favoritism. The Bad: You have a new detective. Why not have her taking the lead on this one? If you are going to retread old ground (and this point just about everything has been covered multiple times) why not freshen things up by giving us a new POV and take the opportunity to develop a new character? Or give us a new angle with her family connections putting the brass on the squad's side against the powerful perp with connections? Bruno and Fin were underused. It seems a shame to use your best actors and not actually write anything for them. Especially as again you have some characters who haven't been through this a hundred times before and could do something other than wary resignation and moving the plot from point A to point B. It's not like you are even giving them a full week off for budget reasons. Actually everyone other than Benson and Carisi was underused. Nobody got anything meaty in their little bit of screen time and you could have swapped lines without anybody noticing which is probably the biggest sin in screenwriting. Overall this was another dully competent episode. Nothing too egregious, but nothing that rose above the level of "not bad" and lots of potential to tell an actually good story wasted. Oh well judging by the previews maybe next week is the week we will get something interesting - even if it is just interestingly bad...
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The Good: An actual ensemble feel with the whole team involved. Hopefully this is a sign that they have figured out you can have a star lead without shoving everyone else into the background. The opening credits! Kevin Kane's credit and and enough cast members in the final shot to fill a minivan. Lots of Carisi without making him an investigator instead of a prosecutor. He actually got to play an active role in bringing the case to a conclusion. A decent investigation with a reasonable flow from one lead to another without being either too obvious or too "shockingly" twisty. The Bad: More of the whole NYPD as victims nonsense. I mean even the Thin Blue Line crowd was probably rolling their eyes a bit at the courthouse riot. While new blood is badly needed and the franchise has a loooong history of good characters with rocky debuts, I'm not sure why they decided to do the same thing as the last few failed attempts at adding a younger female detective. Yet another tough girl cop's cop? But this time it's different because we're adding another cliche by given her family connections to the brass? How is she not going to meet the same fate of arousing Mariska's jealousy and being written increasingly dumb every week and needing the guidance of the all knowing Benson to make a callow youth into an elite detective? Not enough Fin. They never seemed to actually finish anything. I kept expecting them to do something with one of the obvious potential plot threads (like the victim actually exploring exhibitonism or the hammer being thrown out as evidence) but they never bothered to explore any one angle. Overall this was a perfectly cromulent episode. Not as bad as feared, but not as good as wanted. If they manage to tighten up the writing while keeping with the overall approach of Benson as the lead instead of the end all be all it could be a good start. If they backslide on the Benson worship with this sort of clunky writing maybe it will actually kill the zombie corpse of SVU.
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Triumph has been on various other shows and platforms as well. Apparently Robert Smigel established ownership at sone point and NBC either didn't care to fight it or was told by their lawyers or accountants that the case wasn't worth fighting.
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These are comedy writers you are talking about. Most of them have done their best to forget high school and the rest probably couldn't have told you the name of their math class even when they were actually in high school...