cereality

Russ has a decent shot of a job in West Texas right now (esp if he's willing to work in any aspect of oil/gas - which he may be given how much he wants to just stay in the field) and there is a Hispanic community -- but then Pao will go on about how it's not a spicy enough culture. The area and the people are nothing like Columbia - not partying until 2 am. Not standing on stools for photo shoots of body parts . . . .

In addition to everything you all have said -- I think this episode proved (to me) that if you're going to marry someone you barely know from another country in 90 days, it's more likely to work out if they are from the same social class/education level as you. Part of why Family Chantel thinks so little of Pedro is bc he's a poor resort worker who grew up in the DR countryside. In their mind, he got to come to the US only bc of their daughter and thus he must kiss her ring and theirs for the rest of his life. Yet he doesn't do that and dares to have his own opinion. And then it burned them up to see that a poor resort worker's family was living in a nice 3 bedroom apartment -- again in their opinion bc of THEIR daughter and thus the family needs to kiss their ring, and then when the family took a kiss my @$$ attitude, they went nuts. There is NO way they'd talk down to Pedro the way they do or act like that with his family (not getting out of the car etc.) if he was a well to do Caribbean guy who owned the resort, instead of worked as a waiter. He'd just be "worth more" to them EVEN IF he was still sending money back home. Also -- looked it up -- a 1 bedroom apartment in a nice part of Santo Domingo goes for $200/month. 3 bedroom = $500/month. Min wage in ATL right now is $10/hr; he works 2 jobs -- so if he's working 60 hrs/wk, he's making $2400/month -- more like $1900 gross and it looks like he's sending home about 1/4 of that monthly. Russ -- he married a party girl and "model" and party girl has NO clue about professional occupations. Oil & gas is a very specific field and people who go into it want to do that and nothing else for their career -- despite the ups and downs. LinkedIn lists his last job as Drilling Engineer at Devon which pays 125-145k. Yeah -- I can see why he isn't jumping for joy to take a 60k job in a different field of engineering just to be in Miami. Oil & gas is a small frat and as unfair as it is -- companies don't want to hear -- oh I was doing something else for the money but I really want to do oil again. You ARE expected to find a way to survive the downturns while staying connected to the industry. Lots of guys (while young enough) if they can't get engineering jobs, they try to get pipeline jobs and do the actual drilling for a while so that they can pitch to companies that they have engineering and operational drilling experience. Of course the only drilling happening now is in West Texas and in Colorado -- honestly Russ should see if he can get a job there and just go. These explanations will be lost on his "model" wife -- but those guys work a few weeks on/few weeks off so I'm Mi Amor would be fine getting her party on without him dragging her down for weeks at a time and then they could get together again for sex. And I'm positive Mi Amor knows TONS of professional men who used to earn 150k who'd be thrilled to make $1/day selling empanadas on the street.

I thought Derick was ok pre-wedding. Dan OTOH - why doesn't someone inform him that when a beard is growing on your cheekbone/sinus area, it's time to shave up there.

Haven't followed this discussion fully but why are we assuming that Derick and Jill are surviving on donated food or hinting they need food donations? Isn't it fairly standard if you're part of a faith based "community" that people will bring you dinners for a little while after you give birth? And even if that isn't the case, these people are making TLC money -- surely they can afford take out for a few weeks until Jill resumes cooking. If the poster above is right and Derick has been told he's allergic to dairy -- why eat pizza!?

What does this mean? Are they 2nd/3rd class bc they immigrated to Israel? Or bc they aren't wealthy (though seem ok to me - not rich but middle class).

How can it possibly be comfortable for Austin to have Joy sit right THERE?!

It's also possible home birth with no prenatal care except prayer is hitting the daughters from the - we have lousy health insurance and this type of care would have a 10k deductible -angle. We don't know how much money they're making off the show and how much is going to them instead of to JB. JB OTOH is/was wealthy -- not necessarily when he was just starting out -- but once he started buying cell phone towers, commercial property etc.? He gets monthly checks for that which I assume paid a pretty hefty insurance bill for decent insurance so Michelle could birth in a hospital for a handy copay of $50. Plus did JB ever serve in Arkansas state gov't or was he merely a candidate? If he served even one term, it's possible he and his (under 18) family get lifetime health insurance -- don't know about Arkansas specifically but some states have ridiculous benefits for ex state senators, even if they were only in office for a hot second.

Plus he wasn't raised as an Arkansas hillbilly fundie -- he came into it later in life -- well after his mom gave birth to her 2-3 kids in a hospital. So to him (and his family), I'm sure it'd be odd if Jinger he raised the idea of birthing in their master bedroom. Plus he has friends with kids (def Luis - there may be others) -- he has seen their wives go to DOCTORS through their pregnancy and then give birth in HOSPITALS. Anything else would be out of left field for him. More generally - he likely grew up going to actual doctors and seeing his parents/grandparents go to them when something was wrong and in his case - probably yearly for sports physicals to play high school/college/pro soccer. He isn't used to the idea of just praying that things will go ok and risking major bleeding or a kid getting stuck and decelerating in a home delivery, when there are entire buildings full of professionals with equipment who deal with preventing these issues day in and day out. Plus he's from the suburbs of Philadelphia right? It is a HUGE doctor city with excellent health systems - bc UPenn is right there in the city and has strategically placed its doctors in many of the suburbs too; someone from a place like that really will not be comfortable with "oh we'll just pray the delivery goes smooth and no one bleeds out but just in case why don't you put some towels down on the master bedroom floor!?"

Can I get some house info - a Zillow link or pricing or anything?

Watched a bunch of episodes last night so I don't even know which was new and which were reruns. Watching the trivia/newlywed game episode, I will say - it's nice to see how "normal" the marriages seem (not their religious beliefs) - just the way they interact with their spouses, like regular young couples. Zach and Whit and even Erin and Chad (to a lesser degree) had NO problem calling each other out and didn't try to hard to keep sweet -- i.e. Chad's driving; Zach never shutting cabinet doors; Whit owning too many shoes etc. And it was nice to see Alyssa and John together too. It always seems like they're a bit aloof from the huge family, yet seeming them laugh together made it clear that they share a million stories, inside jokes, and goals/plans just with each other. Also thought it was sweet the way John said - I want however many kids you want - and it seemed very natural; I feel like if Alyssa is done at 4 or 6, they'll be done with no pressure from John about it. Brandon and Michaela - unsurprisingly - came across like a typical fundie arranged marriage where they don't know tons about each other and then are too into keeping sweet to find out. If Chad's dream job is a construction company - why the heck doesn't he pursue it?! It's not like his dream job is being a rocket scientist and he doesn't have the right education. He's already incredibly handy, he could work for a contractor for 1-2 yrs and then open his own company. I wonder if that's their plan. The houses that Chad and Erin looked at (different episode) were absolutely dilapidated. I know he's handy -- but damn -- looks like a swift thunderstorm could knock one of those over. Is that what "fixer upper" means in rural Tenn. -- a house that's barely standing?? Or is that just what their budget is -- bc as Gil had to clarify, Chad is just like them and doesn't believe in debt. I know Chad's a finance manager at a metals shop, but given that he has to pay rent currently plus expenses for a wife and 2 kids -- I can't imagine that he's saved hundreds of thousands to be able to buy a home in cash in just 3 yrs of marriage (and whatever savings he came into the marriage with); though if the savings are in the 10s of thousands and you insist on cash - maybe that's why they're looking at the houses they're looking at.

When she introduced herself as Jess -- all I could think was -- man they are so developmentally behind. I went to school with plenty of KIDS who tested out using nicknames esp. in elementary school but even through high school. Plenty of kids whose moms call them Matthew at home would march into school on the first day of 3rd grade and tell the teacher, they preferred Matt. Knew a guy who as a senior in high school was looking to "reinvent" himself before college with a cooler persona and went from Andrew to Drew. KIDS try these things out, KIDS, not 24 year olds. But given her lack of outside exposure to friends and peers and her overbearing parents, now as a married woman is her only time to "try out" things like nicknames. As for Jana - she's so into keeping sweet that honestly I can never tell if she's depressed. She actually seemed to be genuinely laughing as she told how Joy was trying to get Austin to notice. But I will say - when I look at her, I feel bad for how lonely she must feel. For better or worse, these girls are each others' only friends and one by one they have gotten married and moved away. I realize Jinger is the only one who is far away (no clue where Joy lives in relation to the TTH), but in this family once they get married they start taking on a "I'm a married lady, can't be hanging with the singles" attitude. So who does that leave Jana to hang with -- the next closest girl is what 10 or 12 yrs old -- hardly a BFF for a 26 yr old. I'm not suggesting that all the sisters were so loveable -- Jill is a kool aid drinker; Jessa was a bitch etc. -- yet at the end of the day it was SOMEONE to talk to, someone to laugh with (like with the Joy story); someone to share the drudgery and boredom of daily life with. I so wish she had been allowed to go to school and hold down a job; like a regular 26 yr old she wouldn't be totally lonely as her siblings married bc she'd be chatting with friends at work/going on lunch/coffee runs with them, making plans to grab drinks with friends after work etc. Is Anna still living in the same house? I hope she gets along with Anna. I hope she gets to see Amy -- I realize Amy is crazy but sometimes when life is boring and there's no light at the end of the tunnel, hanging out with that person who tells animated stories about nothing and makes you laugh out loud goes a long way.

It's not all that hard to get pot and even easier to get alcohol (he's over 21 now right)? Ben is a fairly friendly guy whose full time job is being JB's errand boy. In all likelihood JB is sending him around town to various properties that are being worked on -- to check in on contractors; to drop off/pick up a key -- and to building supply stores to pick up materials etc. He's an outgoing guy when he's away from the Duggars -- all it takes is showing up someplace, not finding who you are looking for, walking around to look for the guy to find him behind his van smoking weed -- boom Bin gets introduced to weed and maybe even makes a friend who he can buy from. On a different note -- since Jer and Jing are seemingly leaning fundie lite, I just realized -- they probably have or will get a TV right!? I'm sure Jer grew up in a home with TV or at least had access to it at his grandparents etc. Plus as an ex soccer player, he may have an interest in watching his former teams and friends like Luis who are still in the league. If Jing has gotten access to a TV, it's like a whole new world. Not suggesting she's diving right into XXX movies, but she could even watch 90s sitcoms like Friends and learn -- women don't always have to do what's expected, they can stand up for themselves, get a job, start over etc. (i.e. Rachel). How empowering . . . in addition to Jer who I think would support her if she wanted to start up a photography business in Laredo servicing a market besides her sisters or even get a job at a photography studio or coffee shop or wherever. We were shown Jer's book collection. I wonder if it's 100% religious or if he has some secular stuff in there; I really hope even 5% of it is books from college or athlete biographies or certain favorites from when he was a kid -- it would be something for Jinger to discover non-religious reading material too.

Bin. He seems so completely over it that he can't even fake it for an hour (and no I don't believe an "allergy" excuse). Obviously he married too early and probably married the wrong woman, but I would expect that he'd still feel -- yeah but she gave me my kids and I love them to pieces, so it's worth it. I don't even get that vibe for him. Lately anytime he mentions the kids, all he has to say about them is "ugh . . . diapers." I will say he needs to suck it up -- he's happy to take TLC's money, so he should be happy to turn it on for an hour for the cameras when needed. I really do wonder if he's drinking, using drugs or considering either; they've seen the Josh thing blow up so I don't think he'd go down the cheating road bc that can be scandal. But it isn't that hard to hide away some alcohol or weed "at work" -- he may be doing something to just survive his life/marriage. Austin -- I get the impression that he's just as herp-derp as JB. In a way I was thinking - are they just a cute married couple - bc every time you looked over their way, he was kissing Joy or they were whispering amongst themselves during the interview. But when he speaks, you get the typical fundie headship vibe. They showed a video where the producers were pressing Jana on who she told re the new Seewald kid/did she have a boyfriend -- and Joy jumped in and said -- like she'd tell you if she did. Jeremy calls Joy out for her sass (not in a bad way - more in a fun way) and Austin says "that's my wife" - and you could tell Austin was NOT impressed. I think the whole pairing is sad -- esp. when Jana started saying that when Austin used to stay at their house while on local construction projects, Joy would be writing her name every where so he noticed and it sounds like she even flirted badly. Joy herself said something about a school girl crush. Um yeah. We all got those -- you wrote Joy Forsynth in your notebook a few million times; told your friends you liked him and they'd tell his friends who'd tell him; he'd ask you out to pizza; you'd go to the 8th grade dance and that was the "relationship." You didn't freaking marry the person bc you had a school girl crush. Felt bad for Joy when she said she's terrified of child birth -- bc yeah of course she's terrified she's 19 and sad part is she'll likely get to experience it within 12 months and probably in more like 10 months complete with grunting and screaming in front of a dozen people, none of who are doctors and with no pain relief whatsoever. Jing and Jer -- I think they are well on their way to going fundie lite ala Alyssa Bates. She was in the interview in a knee length sleeveless dress and she and Jer constantly had their hands on each other's knees or thighs in a very natural way. I think he's introducing her to "regular" conservative life -- buying a 4 bedroom house without making a nursery immediately; getting a mortgage like normal people; NOT getting pregnant within a month of the wedding and I think not worrying/obsessing about it. I don't know how stable his job is given how small his church is, but I'm guessing he's willing to settle down in Laredo by buying a house and if this job doesn't work out, he will get himself another one to be able to pay the mortgage - he does have a college degree. I bet he wants the stability of THEIR house and desperately wants to make sure their house is not in Arkansas anywhere near the TTH. Jer legitimately seems to hate the Duggar side. He was definitely not interested when the talk started re did you break any courtship rules. But then when it turned to him and Jing specifically -- he played on for a minute saying "we didn't talk about the kiss? Did we Jing, I don't remember . . . " but then was practically GLARING when the host called them out on the fact that the kiss on the way out the doors was really natural -- as herp derp brother in law Austin called out "they caught on quick" and herp derp JD said "did you practice beforehand" and Jer pretty sarcastically/mockingly while glaring said "ha ha." But i say the same thing about Jer as I do about Bin -- if you hate it all so much, earn better livings and stop taking TLC's money; but since you need that TLC income, shut up and deal.

In addition to whatever info leaks have come from the Seewald side, both Mike Seewald and JB pride themselves on being ridiculously conservative and old school, so I imagine there is some polite, fundie-passive-aggressive d!ck measuring between those two. In JB's book, he gave an unqualified 19 yr old loser a daughter, a "job," a free house, and a TV show that pays his bills; in his fundie mind, a guy who needs all this from his father in law isn't worth all that much, is owned by JB, and wasn't all that well raised or prepared by his own father (though obviously he ignores that anyone could think that way about his sons). In contrast, Mike Seewald is old school fundie and in his mind, it doesn't matter if JB is supplying a house or a "job," bc he has supplied THE GROOM. Jessa is just a girl and if his son hadn't married her, in Mike's mind, she'd just be another spinster like Jana and the hordes of other 20-40 yr old unmarried women -- instead she is a mother and gets to get it on with Bin. So I imagine there's some tension in the JB-Mike Seewald relationship to where Mike isn't coming to the TTH for his grandkids birthday parties bc he'd have to listen to JB's passive aggressive commentary. And Bin and Jessa don't seem to go there much because -- well Jessa. She probably thinks -- I got the guy, why do I need to see his family more than 1x/yr!? Yet for as media/TV saavy as Jessa has become guess she doesn't realize how boring and repetitive the show is -- we know all about Aldi; buying used saving the difference; Jana altering 50 dresses/wedding; and birthing 10 lb babies at home. The show would only get more interesting if there were interactions with more people. Why not have Christmas at the Seewalds and let us see some of Bin's Christmas traditions and have the other grandparents dote on your kids - rather than 50 bored looking people sitting in the TTH on Christmas day like they do on any random Tuesday? With Derick OTOH, no inlaw tension bc there isn't a dad in the picture. I don't count the stepdad bc he doesn't want to be involved AND he didn't raise Derick; he came onto the scene once Derick was already grown. And I think Cathy has a VERY real understanding of what her son married into. She may not love the Duggars (Dan certainly didn't hide it in the beginning; and I remember a scene with Cathy at the airport on the way back from Nepal when she got about the 50th "family text" bc Jill and Derick couldn't text solo where she seemed annoyed and said - you guys just need to talk to each other), but she knows that it's a big, overbearing family providing things like houses to her son. She knows that if she doesn't make nice - they will make it just like the Seewalds and she'll be seeing her son and grandsons 1x/yr. I'm sure she doesn't love how Derick and Jill are doing things - Derick quitting WMT in 1 yr; living in Zika infested countries while pregnant; living off of donations; not seeking prenatal care and trying to birth at home despite complications etc. Yet I bet she doesn't say much or gives very "neutral" suggestions bc any hint of her criticizing Jill could result in Jill and JB limiting her access significantly. How is one supposed to talk to Jessa? And what was her strong objection to side hugs - besides that they're stupid??

It's all speculation and we have no reason to believe that Jill has been told she can't have more kids - maybe she's been told it isn't prudent - but we don't know that she physically can't. Mark my words though if Jill and Derick have to stop bc of a physical reason or it's too dangerous (and they decide to listen to the doctors) -- Jing and Jessa won't be having 10 kids each in that case. Jill was/is the biggest kool aid drinker and they know it. If Daddy's favorite Jill can stop at 2 -- then you better believe Jing and Jer aren't having more than 2-3; and Jessa and Bin may have a few more bc obviously Ben still believes in as many as God gives them but Jess wears the pants in that marriage and will convince him or trick him into believing they're done at 4 or 5 max.

Well if it's something like that -- I'm not suggesting most women wouldn't mourn the family they had hoped for or expected. But most women (and men) would ultimately be thankful that the wife did ok medically with something like that, the baby is (hopefully) healthy, and they ended up with 2 beautiful sons. Not everyone gets to have kids - let alone 2; even in their fundie world - look at Michaela Bates struggling right now to have just 1. So hopefully instead of blaming the doctors and/or saying they're heathens who just don't know -- hopefully Jill and Derick can move towards the more "mainstream" way that people view these things.

Despite all the snark -- Jill is young. I REALLY can't imagine that she's been told she can't have more kids. I'm no doctor - and I know we have an OB here on the board - but is it REALLY possible for a young woman to have so much internal damage with just 2 pregnancies that she's told no more kids at age 26?? Now I can imagine scenarios in which she's been told she can never attempt a home birth or vaginal birth again; or that given how the c-sections were done, she should safely only have 1 or 2 more max. Now I can see those things throwing her into a dramatic depressive tailspin -- as opposed to say Jessa or Jinger who may act sad for their husbands' and parents' benefit but would likely be internally thinking -- I only have to do this one more time, sweet!! But come on these are Duggars/Dillards -- they'll get over that news. After they're done being dramatic about it, they will simply settle on the reasoning that the one doctor who told them that (or the entire OB department at U Arkansas - whatever) are a bunch of heathens and it is not in their hands so it doesn't matter what they say; if they get pregnant again (and again and again) it's bc the Lord wants them to have more kids and doesn't care what the medical establishment thinks. There's no way this baby has Zika right? I mean they were in the hotbed of Zika activity where even the Pope had said that Catholics should use BC -- BUT he is a big giant baby. For as much as I snark about them, I want all of them to be well -- AND I want Derick and Jill to start listening to medical advice so as not to endanger themselves or their kids.

Didn't get to watch tonight as I'm without a TV - I find it REALLY odd that there was no mention of Derick, Jill or Samuel tonight. I fully expected a famewhoring video from the parents as they always do in this kind of thing. If they can't for some reason (like the baby not allowed to be videoed in the NICU and Jill and Derick not wanting to appear without him), then I expected JB and Michelle or some combo of their married siblings to do an announcement/congrats. And failing that, I AT LEAST expected TLC to make a 20 sec video spot saying congrats -- using pics we've already seen like a pic of the existing Dillard fam + the Samuel pic that Derick posted. Maybe it's about People having the exclusive, but I feel like People always has the exclusive and TLC STILL does something for the engaged/married couple/new baby -- I recall it vividly for Jing and Jer (using the one still photo of the engagement with the Empire State Building in the background) and also for Zach and Tori Roloff's baby - again using 1 recycled still photo so as not to breach any exclusivity clauses with People.

Thing is -- if Jill has a kid that is deprived of a few min of oxygen during birth but then they drive to the hospital and have a C-section asap and within a few days the baby is off monitors etc., they won't even know or recognize developmental delays or do anything about them. Physical delays can be apparent to doctors at birth (though not always - there are kids who are fine when born but then have a hard time sitting or walking or climbing and get PT for that), but cognitive delays may not show up until later - when you realize that all kids know colors and shapes but yours just can't get it; or yours have a hard time reading etc. Given what passes for normal in her family - Josie (who may legit have some delays that were never addressed), Jackson (who at age 13 still comes off like a 7 yr old), and hordes of uneducated siblings who did basic 1st grade flashcards in 8th grade, she will likely think any cognitive delay is perfectly normal development and plus - it's all in God's hands, any doctor who dares suggests some basic PT or special ed to get a kid to catch up is a mere heathen who is just trying to make $$ off her family. Derick may more be in a position to notice - if say he and his brother could read by age 5 but he has a 10 yr old who struggles. But Derick's testicles reside in Jilly's purse or maybe in JB's office where the marriage deal was struck, so he dare not say a word even about his own kid.

Am I the only one who thinks there's a lot of hysterical, hormonal "why me - why do these rough births keep happening to me, what if we can't have 11 more kids" crying happening in Jilly's room right now as she is realizing that she may end up having 4-5 kids, not 19 like her parents and maybe not even into the double digits? And Derick - moron that he is - is probably saying "it's all in God's hands, doctors don't know everything -- [even though they've now saved you 2x and 2 of our sons, they're mere mortals]." I know there is no absolute bar on C-sections and there are always examples of that one lady you know from church who had 8 of them or whatever, but IRL everyone that I know that has had C-sections has been told that up to 3-4 are no problem at all, but beyond that it becomes high risk and needs to be considered on a case by case basis -- someone without scarring may do great with C-sections 5 and 6, whereas someone who had a rougher surgery earlier may not handle it as well. Of course I run in a non-fundie circle where everyone wants between 1-4 kids -- so they have their desired number, thank the lord for a healthy mom and babies and move on with their lives and start raising those kids. I've never had a kid so sorry to be so blunt but isn't it possible that a giant baby starts to descend but then bc of his size gets himself - um - stuck!? And your contractions aren't enough to push him out? And while stuck his heart rate or breathing or something else vital like that start to decelerate? What the heck would these morons have done then if they got 40 hrs into birthing at home and that happened (even if they are lying - if they are saying 40 hrs, I'm guessing it was at least something like 20-24 - a LONG time I would think for a baby to have to endure). In a hospital if something like that happens I bet they can have a baby out via c section in 2 min (not counting the amount of time it takes to prep you, race you to the OR etc.). But in a hospital I bet that happens less anyway bc they're monitoring you and the baby throughout so at the first sign of trouble, they are moving you into the OR for a C-section -- they're not sitting their reciting Bible verses to see if the situation corrects itself and the heart rate comes back up. But at home - how the heck would you know if something like that was happening internally!? And even if you suspected - IDK where they live but I'm guessing you're talking a 15 min ride to the hospital; 10 min in the ER explaining what's happening and having them check you; 5 min to be moved up to L&D; and even if they take you straight to the OR - probably another 5 min to put you under, get the surgeons in the room etc. -- 30 min for something like this!?

So Jill labored for 40 hours and then had a c section!? I assume most/all of that labor was at home like last time and then when something went wrong they went to the hospital and hemmed and hawed re a c section for their 10 lb baby!? These morons are going to cause themselves serious damage before all is said and done if they continue to act this way re medical procedures. How do we know the baby is in the NICU? Has that been said?

So Jill labored for 40 hours and then had a c section!? I assume most/all of that labor was at home like last time and then when something went wrong they went to the hospital and hemmed and hawed re a c section for their 10 lb baby!? These morons are going to cause themselves serious damage before all is said and done if they continue to act this way re medical procedures.

Jill was also the first girl courtship. Coming from a conservative religious immigrant family -- I can tell you the paranoia is the greatest when a first daughter is dating/getting married and parents want to hover bc they are convinced that no guy ever just wants to have pizza with the girl and talk, all he wants is to put his d!ck in. Then when they start to realize guy #1 wasn't like that, they start to believe that maybe there are decent guys out there who won't force the daughter into anything -- so subsequent daughters have it much easier. And to top it off Jill herself was/is a kool aid drinker. So she would NEVER have thought -- hmm, let's go on a date to an arcade and I'll bribe the 10 yr old chaperone with 90 min worth of video gaming tickets and all the soda he wants and then Derick and I can sit in the corner and talk and make out or whatever. Meanwhile the savvier girls -- Jing and Jessa - were watching and making mental notes as to how they'd handle their courtship; who'd be the best chaperones bc they'd allow for the most privacy etc. While JB and Michelle made a huge deal of family texts with Jessa and Jill's boyfriends - with the amount of time that Jing was shown texting/talking - I'm fairly sure she had a text chain with mom and dad where they'd trade bible verses 1x/day and then had a separate one with just her and Jer to talk all day every day like a normal couple. It's not that hard to do it - esp. if you have something like imessaging or a texting app - so the number of texts aren't showing up on your phone bill. Yet if Derick had suggested something like that, kool aid drinker Jill would have run and tell daddy that maybe Derick wasn't a righteous man. Honestly I think the same thing extends to baby making as well. It's not outside the realm of belief that Derick subtly suggested - hey let's just have fun on our honeymoon - esp after the stress of the wedding, his mom etc., plenty of time to make babies later, how about condoms for this one trip. And Jill did not allow it bc she needed to live up to her family's expectation that there will be babies asap. Jing on the other hand likely relented without feeling the guilt of - what will JB and Michelle think; in fact she may even have been relieved to not have to experience pregnancy immediately and just ease into everything with Jer.

I can't blame Cathy for Derick's rush to marry bc he was 24 -- 24 yr old men tend not to ask mom's permission for that sort of thing. Plus down south, 24 is a very common marriage age for grooms -- 2 yrs out of college, having sown their oats/gotten some adventure out of the way and ready to settle into a career job and pay a mortgage. That's exactly where Derick was -- gotten Nepal out of the way, picked up a white collar professional job that'd provide for a wife and family so on paper it was all good. Plus Cathy was SO ill during the short courtship and engagement, that it's likely that she didn't realize how it was going down. She probably did not realize that her son had NEVER had a private Skype conversation with his wife to be bc her parents were always seated 2 ft away. She probably didn't realize that he had never been to dinner alone with Jill bc every dinner involved bringing 3 of her sisters. She was so ill that she didn't even have a sense of who Jill was -- so she couldn't tip off Derick to the fact that she seems like the kind of girl who says what is expected or echoes back his opinion, rather than clearly saying -- no I don't want to live overseas ever but I guess we can do 1-2 of those 2 week summer mission trips if you wanted. I feel like if Cathy were well, the courtship could have been a little longer and a touch more honest bc some of the dates may have involved hanging out at Cathy's house like normal young adults -- i.e. you eat dinner with his mom; then you go into the family room just the 2 of you and can talk or kiss or watch a movie and maybe mom pops in and out once or twice but she's not there glaring at you as you say -- well I'm one of 2 kids so maybe 2-3 but I don't think I could deal with as many as God gives us . . . . It's also possible that Cathy was so ill that she was thinking emotionally -- OMG what will happen, I am these boys' last parent. Maybe it's good that Derick gets married to Jill asap -- he'll have a family, a home, and someone to take care of him, he won't be alone in the world; and it's good for Dan too bc then Dan will have a home to spend Christmas and Thanksgiving at and that'll make him less lonely until he finds a wife or even if he doesn't find oneetc. Not saying it's rational, but it is quite possible that at that moment all she wanted was for her sons not to be left alone - without thinking that hard about who they'd be stuck with for life. I have a sense that Derick had NO or almost no dating experience. Maybe there was a girlfriend in high school for a few weeks, but typically the kind of guys that can get themselves girls in college don't sign themselves up for an arranged marriage at age 24; even if they graduate without a girlfriend, they have enough confidence that they can meet the one on their own, thru friends, etc. I remember an episode where Cathy said that she had warned the boys re the perils of casual dating -- including that it's expensive. It is to an extent but in college it really isn't -- often "dating" in college involves hanging out in dorm rooms or at free campus activities or eating together in the cafeteria or whatever. I think Derick didn't date in college, was super nervous as he approached 24 that he wouldn't find a girl to settle down with, knew that on paper a conservative Christian with a college degree is a good match so he got it done asap via arranged marriage but then got himself stuck someplace he didn't expect.

I don't even know that much about kids/child rearing and yet it seems to me that in about 50% of the footage, Derick comes across as disappointed with/irritated by Iz's seemingly age appropriate behavior. It's possible that Cathy and Rick ran and a tight ship and that's what he's used to and that's how he wants to raise his boy. But it also seems to me that a HUGE part of this is that Derick was NOT ready for marriage or kids. He leaves on a mission at 22, but first setting up a pen pal relationship with JB probably thinking it'd get him a girl; he practically orders up a mail order marriage when he's within 6 months of his Nepal departure date. Then he comes back here and instead of getting to know the girl as a girlfriend, dating casually etc. -- he realizes that 100% would not be allowed and he doesn't want to lose the girl, so he proposes within weeks of getting home, gets married like 3 months later, and bc they're fundie crazy and will not even consider BC or rhythm or anything, gets her pregnant on the honeymoon. All of this is while he's coping with his mom being incredibly sick -- having lost his other parent only 5-6 yrs prior. But no - there's no way they could act normal and just be boyfriend and girlfriend for a while and put off the wedding. Then he gets married and realizes he doesn't know he wife AT ALL and she is NOTHING like she portrayed when they Skyped or went out to eat with her siblings a handful of times. I'd venture to guess that he told her he was an accountant; I'd venture to guess he also told her that he was taking an accounting job but his real love was the mission field and if the opportunity presented itself, he'd want to go back. I'd venture to guess she eagerly nodded along and said OMG that's exactly what I want too. Fast forward a few months and he realizes he's married a stage 5 clinger who won't let him hold down the accounting job unless she can sit in the cafeteria so then he says screw it -- let's go to the mission field -- and there she is scared of the locals and loud noises. I think he has likely lost all patience with his home life. I think he realizes that Jill is unteachable and will not change bc she doesn't want to change (contrast Jinger - wearing pants; not trying to get pregnant on day regardless of what her family expects; learning Spanish etc). So now I think he's just annoyed and takes it out on Iz when he wants to lecture for 15 min about a new baby and a 2 yr old runs off and hops in his toy car. I wouldn't be surprised if at some level the massive weight loss (in addition to do with dental surgery) has something to do with some depression or anxiety as he realizes -- OMG this is IT for LIFE!?