cereality

IDK what it is but something about the Erin and Chad marriage seems very "polite" and formal, as if they are just getting to know each other in month 2 of dating, rather than married for 4 years. I don't get that sense at all from Zach and Whit; Brandon and Michael; or Alyssa and John. I feel like in all of those marriages -- while they differ -- the couples are truly on the same team and talk to each other about everything. I feel like in those cases, if the husband was getting overwhelmed or even just annoyed by -- work; having to film made up projects for tv; actual projects around his own house/launching a side business; plus a never ending request list from his inlaws -- I suspect he would tell his wife, and then the wife would handle it. Understandably some couples have clearly agreed to be featured on UPTv bc I'm sure the supplemental income isn't bad given that they are just starting out, quickly expanding their families etc. But even so, the wife can handle filming by setting up a project that she does will the little kids at her parents' house or while the husband is at work or the filming involves the wife going someplace with her sisters/little kids etc. And she can put the word out there that Chad has been busy at work and home and thus while he'd love to help, they need some "family" time together so no -- he cannot finish your son's nursery or build your crib or playground or shed or whatever. I don't think it's any coincidence that ALL filming we've seen in Chicago involves Michael + visiting siblings and then at the end of the day, Brandon comes home and appears on camera for 2 min saying his hellos and then Kelly takes them out to dinner -- which isn't filmed. Clearly Brandon wants it that way and has talked to Michael about it. Yet with Prince Chad -- he can't possibly tell Erin how he's feeling. He may be hoping that she just notices that he's tired and is aging before her eyes (eye wrinkles anyone??). Yet she is too self involved to notice or notices and then asks and he says "no no its fine" and she shrugs and says "he said he's fine."

Agreed. I think Brandon has developed coping strategies to deal with being around the family, since Michael wants to see her family. John OTOH copes by being at the Bates home 1x/yr for 48 hrs max and since his wife isn't all too thrilled to be around her family, it works for them. I think neither Brandon nor John hates his inlaws -- I think it's the loud, obnoxious, shrill older/middle siblings they can't stand. I also think Kelly is pretty saavy and realizes if she makes her daughters choose between their man's preferences and their family's preferences, they are going to choose their man and Kelly won't see that daughter or grandkids all that much. We've seen Kelly and Gil be VERY respectful of both Brandon and John. In the first decorating debacle where obnoxious Carlin was moving all of Brandon's stuff around and he was clearly pissed -- Kelly was keeping the peace and saying -- no, we're going to move it back if Brandon doesn't like it. And with Alyssa and John -- they have very much bent to their preferences -- not showing up at/before a birth; often not showing up until hours or days later; staying at hotels rather than camping at their home which would certainly be cheaper; after one of the births Kelly showed up with groceries and Gil was in the kitchen dishing up meals for everyone and cleaning up after himself and then Gil was out there mowing their lawn and taking out their trash just to finish off some of John's tasks around the house. The only time I've seen John at the Bates home and looking like he's having fun is when he was in their front yard with Trace throwing footballs to see if they could get one to go through the tree house. John is a guy's guy and I think he gets along with Trace who is similar and is content to be playing pick up basketball or throwing footballs. As opposed to the rest of the effeminate men like Lawson, Nathan, Evan etc. who are sitting around singing, gossiping, opining on how everyone should and should not live their lives. Agree with the above -- we have DEFINITELY seen Chad walk in the door and look PISSED that Erin has certain siblings over for dinner. I don't blame him -- he's worked an 8 hrs and wants to go home and just play with his kids and just sit -- and then he's got another person around that he feels compelled to engage with. I don't think he minds Warden (or Jackson?) -- the pre-teen boy who has been learning to cook with Erin; at least for now the pre teen boys are fairly normal/quiet so they're not shrieking or arguing with Chad or giving him a headache when he walks in -- it's just having a kid around who'll eat with them and then head home. But we've definitely seen him walk in and see Carlin and look PISSED.

^ and if the sisters are in fact competitive and jealous of each other even quietly, well Tori and Carlin should get ready to be super jealous of Josie. Her intended posted on IG about how with below freezing temps for an entire week in Knoxville, half the city has frozen pipes and he is all over town fixing them and even got interviewed by the local NBC station about it. He is a skilled tradesmen who will make a good living and he and Josie will have a nice home, cars, vacations etc. Evan is apparently looking to be a traveling singer for love offerings and Bobby was telling Chad he's being called to the ministry -- but I guess is realizing he needs $$ so will take on Chad's job at the scrap yard until he can find a ministry that pays him; I suspect Evan will take on/keep a similar kind of job. Meanwhile Kelton is kind of set in his uncle's business which he'll likely own one day/will establish his own business. Kind of similar to Alyssa and John's life but Tori and Carlin don't see Alyssa more than 1-2x/yr, whereas Josie's life will be right in their face bc all 3 couples will stay local.

Watched both the Carlin courtship and the Chicago episode last night. The courtship episode -- confirmed how freaking annoying and shrill Carlin really is. Also, does she have trouble reading? I get it if you're soooo excited that you can't think of the answers to the clues, but what prevents you from being able to read out loud? Fortunately Evan does not have the same reading impediment. The entire thing was stupid and the family sounded stupid for gushing over it. The scavenger hunt was kind of a knock off of 10-15 yrs ago when that was an "interesting" way to propose -- and that's also how Brandon proposed to Michael. And the song -- I know the family was sooooo impressed at the song he wrote, but am I the only one who thought it was a simple song that a 7th grade boy crushing on a girl could've written with simple rhyming words? And what exactly is the big deal about holding hands post-courtship? Evan actually asked Gil if he could. Um -- you've been front hugging for months. I'm pretty sure feeling her breasts on your body is more intimate than holding her hand. Chicago -- am I the only one that sees the sisters being condescending to/about Michael bc they feel they are "better" than her and bc they know she won't say anything back (as opposed to Tori or Carlin who'd bitch slap you)? I'm sure the producers wanted Erin to bring up Michael's fertility issues -- and TBH -- I'm sure Erin was dying to know too and wanted to make sure it was discussed while they were there. This time Michaela seemed more "accepting" of the whole thing. The major tests have been done and it sounds like they reveal nothing wrong/nothing that needs to be done, and she needs to get one more test and after that one they will take a break and "just enjoy each other." I think that's dr. code for-- there's nothing medically wrong with you, it's possible your timing etc. hasn't worked out yet, keep trying and it'll likely happen for you. Doesn't sound tragic and more importantly this time Michaela didn't look like it was tragic to her as she said "it can take much of your adult life," Of course Erin HAS to jump in with "awwww Michael, is there a plan B" -- to make her feel bad when maybe she didn't. Reality is they're not even 30, if they keep trying and it happens in 5 yrs -- is it the end of the world?? I know to this family, it probably is but come on, they won't even be 35 then. It's not like they married at 45!? And I was kind of pissed for Michaela when in the TH with the middle sister, Carlin obnoxiously says -- her apartment is sooooo small, it's like a dog house with people living in it. How very Christian of you to put down someone for their material goods. You can tell the sisters are competitive with each other and put each other down with a smile on their face in that "OMG I was totally kidding" kind of way. At least Brandon has a job -- which I think provided that housing. Let's see your fiancé -- who isn't even that talented but sings in a family fundie band -- could provide you a better apartment not in bumblef---k TN but in the city of Chicago!? And as Tori laughed along, I guess she has forgotten that her sweetie is moving to TN and only has a job bc fortunately Chad is quitting his and will be living in a freaking trailer -- not even a small apartment!? And I agree with the above -- Lawson seems like a VERY content bachelor. Which leads me to believe that he is a handsome guy who is out there in Nashville dating, kissing girls, and (if he chooses) having sex. But even if he isn't having sex, I think he's not as desperate as fundies like Bobby/Chad/Joe Duggar/Austin Forsyth were to get married bc he is interacting with females at some level so he doesn't have to dream about the day where ask someone to court and then get a hug or a kiss from a girl.

I highly doubt Michelle is LDS. Or if she is, she likely isn't still practicing LDS. It would be unheard of for a 23 yr old single LDS woman to be in grad school (for criminal justice I believe) and be living with her boyfriend as if they're man and wife even if he were LDS. That likely strips you of your temple status anyway. If she isn't LDS, no need for him to have to convert. I imagine they'll just end up being regular Christians that believe in Jesus etc. without the restrictions of the LDS church or the "lifestyle" of the FLDS. The other older boy - Hunter - is at the Air Force Academy. It's college but with military duty thrown in. He is likely far too busy to deal with his family's nonsense plus he has significant restrictions -- they only get so much time off etc. -- so he can't be running home to film every time they throw a party or load up the caravan for a vacation. He was active on social media through high school and had a pretty normal life like Logan -- high school state wrestling champion 2x; lots of friends - girls and guys, lots of inside jokes etc; homecoming court a few times; pretty close with his high school coaches etc. I imagine he's living life similar to Logan -- though obviously with military restrictions that where he cannot live in an off campus apartment; live with a girlfriend; go out on dates/walk off campus anytime he wants. Once he commissions and life becomes more "normal" or maybe if he leaves the military in 5 yrs if he chooses not to be a lifer -- I can see him finding a girl like Michelle and living a similar life to his brother. Annie knew Mariah was gay before her parents? Why? How do we know this? Are the 2 of them especially close? I did notice she gave her the first hug and was all smiles, but I just figured she was being supportive and wasn't super bothered bc this isn't her child or her direct grandchild that she has to deal with.

Agreed. He seems like a great kid. He has spoken about this before in an early season -- that he would love to stay around and be the reliable big brother for everyone, but if he were to wait until all of his siblings launched, he'd be well into his 30s-40s before he could start his life. As such I think he took his big brother role seriously for the first 18 yrs of his life -- and I think still remains available especially to his full siblings -- but when he graduated high school, I think he deliberately decided he needed to focus on his life. In doing that, he's graduated from flagship state u, is now pursuing an MBA, lived with co-ed housemates thru college and spent most of his time at college and not running back to the 4 homes, moved in with his girlfriend in grad school -- much like any other 23 yr old male. Obviously he knows that his siblings see that he's living with Michelle, kissing her (probably sleeping with her), he now drinks and dances -- both of which I think are frowned upon in his family. He puts it out there on social media, so obviously his parents and siblings see it. But I don't get the sense that he's in their face about it. I don't think he goes home and tells his brothers -- oh when you're living with your girlfriend . . . . Or you absolutely shouldn't pursue polygamy bc x, y, z . . . . or you don't want to wait until marriage for sex bc what if she's not for you or whatever. He's not Tony -- he's not a loud, opinionated guy. I think he is living his life and owning it but without disrespecting the family beliefs by getting his siblings to follow his lifestyle. As for being in Kody and Janelle's face -- you can tell they don't like it. They've so much as said it. When he and Michelle were applying to grad school, the plan was they'd go to the same school (i.e. stay at UNLV or go to another school where they both got into their programs) and live together and Kody and Janelle said -- it's not in line with our values that you're living with her, kissing her (and more), why don't you just get married after college and you can live together. And yet he didn't -- he didn't propose until a few months ago. Thing is -- Kody has always said to his kids and Logan used to get asked about it a lot as the oldest boy -- that you should only live polygamy if you want to and you believe in it yourself, otherwise you will be miserable; Janelle has also made a big deal about the older kids choosing their own faith whether FLDS or LDS or mainstream Christianity, so long as they have faith -- I think she was saying this re Maddy and others who were thinking of joining the LDS church. Whether Kody and Janelle meant these things or were saying them bc they were on TV by this point and it was PC to do so, Logan was hearing them and likely taking them to heart. He was likely thinking -- you told us to live our own lives and just be good people -- well I'm a good person with a college degree, pursuing a masters, full time job, with a girlfriend and I want to kiss/sleep with/dance with/drink with/vacation with that girlfriend for a few years and then when we're both ready, we'll get married. He's not sleeping around or doing drugs or any of those things, he's just living his own life as they always preached.

Logan and Michelle are engaged now and hopefully the show lasts long enough that we get to see how those 2 will handle a wedding compared to these 2 morons. I think there is a significant difference in intelligence and rationality between Janelle's kids and Christine's kids. I almost don't count Maddie and Caleb's wedding bc the entire family is so obsessed with Caleb that if he had said he wanted a 5 star wedding at the Ritz Carlton with lobster for all, they would've made it happen. But it endeared him EVEN more when all he wanted was a roadkill like groom's cake, the ability to go fishing the morning of the wedding, not wear a tie and some article of cammo clothing. Logan and Michelle will be a better "test" bc Janelle and Kody have even said that they don't agree with how they're living life -- moving in together for grad school; kissing before marriage (and probably having sex). They have encouraged Logan to just marry her, yet he's been with her for 2-3 yrs, lives with her, travels with her, went to her family at Christmas and [gasp] still not married. I could see Kody and Janelle being more likely to tell them, here's x thousand dollars, the rest is on you. But I see both of them being far more rational about it too. They both work while going to grad school and I imagine they're saving up for a wedding in Arkansas where she's from. I don't see them going nuts demanding a country club wedding for 400 guests and a custom menu.

Amazing how much I dislike Tony. I think the family does too actually. I feel like Christine said over and over "I love that boy," and it first it sounded convincing as if she was appreciating his style of humor (got the same vibe from Robin and Janelle too). And then later in the show after the tampon joke, when she said it again -- it was like -- she didn't even believe it. Kid's an asshole -- arrogant and entitled and yet brings nothing to the table himself. You want a wedding for 400 buddy -- complete with authentic tacos, not "white" tacos -- how about you get yourself a job and/or get your family to contribute? Why is it all Kody/Christine's responsibility? I feel like all the parents have some concerns re Tony's "traditional" views. I'm sorry but the kid is a dick. He sits there making comments re Kody has all the wives to cook and clean, so he doesn't have to etc. Even guys who have traditional views and certainly have their opinions on why a man takes so many wives -- would not say that jokingly or not in front of their future father in law!? But I guess the bride's family paying for the 400 person wedding is just in there with his "traditional" values. For Kody's own sake, he and the moms need to sit down with the 18 kids or at least the 9 oldest ones -- and tell them, for each of your weddings we will gift you 5k (or whatever amount) and the rest is on you. Then some kids will save up with their fiances and take on CC debt until they can have the 75k wedding of their dreams; others will take the middle ground of working and saving another 10-20k and have a nice but not over the top wedding; and still others will say -- eff it, we're getting married at the courthouse or in the desert and taking the family and our 5 best friends out to dinner afterwards. Why leave it open and then worry about whether that kid will forever say -- well you never said no to ANYTHING Madison wanted for her wedding. And FTR it didn't seem that Madison's wedding was expensive at all -- it was a bunch of cabins in the middle of nowhere and they stayed/did the ceremony/reception all at the same place. M&T are ready to be married and they don't realize that the more upscale a venue is (i.e. a country club or 5 star hotel), the less likely it is they'll allow outside catering??! If you want tacos at your wedding, why not go with a hall owned by a Mexican-American?? Or better yet why not do a destination wedding to Mexico where everything will be far cheaper so you can have 4000 tacos for next to nothing!?

I fully expect Jeremy to send his kids to school -- maybe Christian school -- but school nonetheless. And I feel like he'll mold the first child -- whether boy or girl -- into a jock; I don't mean that in a bad way, but I can see him enrolling a little girl in soccer at age 4 just like a little boy.

Well - that (their “normal” life) was fun while it lasted.

Haven't been following closely, but I'm not sure how talk of the Franklin Institute led to evolution/creationism. The Franklin Institute is a regular old science museum -- doesn't even necessarily have an evolution exhibit at all times. You can walk through the exhibit of the human heart. There are some exhibits re the eyes/vision/color. There's a planetarium and an I max theater. There is currently an exhibit re fireworks and pyrotechnics generally and how they work. There's usually a few exhibits having to do with liquid nitrogen and how frozen gases behave. You are free to believe -- or not -- that all of these things work this way bc that's how God made them. But the museum is showing Jinger a lot of things that she hasn't seen before. It's not like she went to school where she took 10th grade chemistry and saw basic experiments with chemicals and fire. It's not like took 9th grade bio where she may have learn something about heart or eye structures or even the color spectrum/wavelength thing that you learn in middle school science (RoyGBIV).

Hmm - well that's a pleasant surprise. I actually didn't know that about him bc I don't know much about his background besides the fact that he (and his dad?) are preachers of some type. So between that and seeking out a marriage with Jing, I assumed fundie. Maybe that means Jing will go (is going - from the looks of it) a bit more "mainstream" -- i.e. no yearly baby, wearing pants, maybe an occasional movie/tv show/museum etc.

So I always forget about these 2 when the show isn't on. Was just checking out their IGs -- looks like they spent Christmas in Philadelphia, So glad. IDK why -- I know his family is batshit fundie too. I just feel like when they're there, they aren't being asked 8000 times a day -- are you pregnant; are you sure; why not; aren't you trying; it's been a whole YEAR, how long will you wait; do you think you need to see a dr.; want to try a pregnancy test, just in case?? Even though they are fundie too, they only had 3 kids, so they probably aren't freaking out that their 24 year old daughter in law isn't pregnant within a year of marriage. They probably think that there is more than plenty of time to have 3-6 kids. Frankly they may be more "concerned" if they had been married for a year, had a baby and were pregnant with #2 bc we all know their son will have trouble providing for a big big family. Plus when they're in Philadelphia, there's some semblance of normal. It's possible they went up to NYC. It's possible they visited Luis and his family in NJ and likely they did visit his grandmother who seemed like a normal NJ Italian grandma. And color me shocked to see her on the campus of my alma mater, UPenn. Granted it's not like she's going to school there and it's not like the knowledge exudes out of the buildings, but she is soooo sheltered that ANY knowledge she can take away can only be a positive. Like if Jer even said to her -- let's go walk around Penn's campus -- it's a big university here in town, it's an Ivy league school; and she asked -- what's Ivy league and he could explain . . . . There's one thing she knows that she otherwise wouldn't given her upbringing. Same with the Franklin Institute. I know their views of science are effed up, but it has really simple exhibits -- like where you can walk thru an enormous model of a heart; so she can at least thing -- wow so this is how God designed for blood to get pumped . . . .And maybe notice how complex bodily functions are and realize -- hint hint -- I wonder if Jilly Muffin knows this from her online "classes," it's so complex that maybe when I give birth, I'll opt for a real dr . . . .

I don't know the timing offhand, but this latest crop of sons in law are definitely more of the fundie fame whore variety bc they didn't come into the courtship with any kind of job or skilled trade already in hand. Evan has some kind of family fundie band that probably survives off of love offerings -- he's always previewing songs and hawking CDs on IG. He may see BUB as a nice platform to launch his "music" -- much like Lawson.

Yep. I was thinking this too. Erin makes CDs and at various times gives piano lessons -- which is no different than probably how she taught some of the younger siblings to play piano. Way different than when you've worked a 9-5 or shift job -- you have to get up and go to work whether you feel like it or not; you have deadlines - whether you're in the mood or not; sometimes bosses are unreasonable; sometimes you're tired and have to slog thru. Erin never experienced any of this. In contrast Alyssa did -- she was working at a florist pre-marriage. Not suggesting it was a high powered corporate job, but she knows what it's like to have to get stuff done, whether you feel like it or not. So I can imagine her having more understanding with John if there are days where he just wants to come home, put the girls to bed, and sit on the couch; she's probably not asking him to do renovations around the house etc. I seem to think Michael is probably similar to Alyssa in that regard. They don't have kids yet so it's "easier" but she was full time nanny for several years -- and while that was a kid focused job -- it was still more than giving 2 hrs of piano lessons 2 times/wk and having the kids leave. She was probably responsible for taking care of the kids, making them food and maybe even doing a few household tasks for the parents as some nanny gigs involve that -- and most of all, the people who hired you are relying on you to show up daily, whether you feel like it or not. Never thought Evan was unattractive. I think the issue with him (and Bobby) is that they are looking to marry and have 6+ kids each with no marketable skills or education. Bobby will spend a lifetime in made up church jobs for Gil -- so basically living off his father in law's money to support his own family. Evan may end up doing the same since he has a fundie family band or doing some combo of that with minimum wage/office jobs.

Agree Gil seemed to be doing more "warnings" than his usual -- oh I don't want to give another daughter away -- when Evan and Carlin were asking permission to court; when he was doing the whole -- you guys are young and may not end up married to each other, you could see him almost hoping that they don't. I guess a minimum wage job is better than no job, but he is 22. Shouldn't he have gone to some fundie college or a trade school or something? The front desk job appears to be his full time gig, not his -- this is what I'm using to support myself while I pursue something more permanent -- gig. Of this middle crop of courting couples, looks like Josie is making out the best with a plumber -- he has a college degree I think in finance but works as a plumber at his uncle's business. Their life may end up looking more like Alyssa and John's -- which actually kind of makes sense given that Josie and Alyssa are close and she likely saw that a skilled tradesmen working for a family business gave her sister a nice life -- so when she met one of those guys, she probably let it be known through her friends/sisters that she was interested.

I think whoever up top said that Alyssa is really pragmatic hit the nail on the head and given her pragmatic nature, I think she and John have the type of marriage where they are very much a team on everything including finances. So while John also has 2-3 young kids and the stresses of being a young father and provider, he has a wife who very much gets it. Plus I think he's just more well to do than Chad -- he owns an HVAC business in Fl with his brothers (where there is huge demand) plus has started a small commercial cleaning business. He's set up his life such that if he works harder -- i.e. doesn't turn down jobs -- he brings home more money. Chad IMO is doing well too (esp compared to the typical fundie male who is more like Bobby or Evan) but he's the finance manager for a small metals shop and his boss pays what he pays; he can't taken on a nighttime HVAC job at a car dealership whose AC must be repaired overnight so that daytime business isn't affected in order to make double time like John can. Plus John's wife is on the same page. After taking care of 2 kids all day, she is out there cleaning offices/small businesses with her husband at night. She has also been shown going out and cleaning by herself bc John had a night time HVAC job and obviously it doesn't make sense to turn down that kind of money. And John's life just looks more fun -- date nights and Sbux runs with his wife; he still plays baseball/basketball with his brothers; he and Alyssa went on vacation this summer -- a real vacation, not driving to a mountain cabin for 1 night. Alyssa may also not be the demanding type. They have a nice home -- no idea if they own or rent -- and she wears nice clothes, but I can see her being very much the type who says "the clothing and home budget is x, I must make it work in x." Erin OTOH -- the husband makes a china cabinet to sell for extra money on the side and suddenly she must have one too. Um -- it takes weeks to build one of those, when you're doing it on top of a 40 hour week job plus helping your wife with the laundry and cleaning (which is rare for a fundie man, but apparently he does - prob bc she complains about how hard it is ALL day without him) plus taking care of goats/dogs/chickens whatever (which she downplays bc once he commented on how much poop he cleans between the animals and the kids and she was quick to shush him). She doesn't get that it's better to let him focus on building furniture that he can sell and make a few hundred or few thousand here and there, rather than asking for one for yourself too. Add to that all the house projects that must be done on a RENTAL house. I'm sorry -- don't care how handy you are, who builds a porch and a deck on a RENTAL home owned by someone else?? Doesn't matter how much your wife wants one. Add to that they are looking for houses and Prince Chad doesn't believe in mortgages like his fundie inlaws and what they can afford are absolute teardowns -- like I couldn't believe some of them wouldn't blow over in a strong storm. Guess who will be doing the gut renovation on that while working 40 hrs a week. And add to that when there's weekend downtime, they MUST go to the inlaws, where I imagine the moment that Chad sits down with his bros in law to watch a football game, Gil goes -- hey the grout in the master bathroom is falling apart or the shingles on the roof blew off during the last storm, Chad can you take a look -- and then Chad must climb onto the roof or into the tub right that moment bc Prince Chad is a people pleaser and bc he knows his wife will be PISSED if he were to say no or punt on a request from Daddy. Given all this -- to make no mention of probably being concerned about his wife's health as they undertake yearly high risk pregnancies -- I'm surprised it's just eye wrinkles and not a head full of gray hair at age 30.

Now - yes. They lucked out with the first 3 sons in law but they need to keep the marriage train rolling so when obnoxious Tori and Carlin rolled up with unemployed men, it was all good. Gil created a job for Bobby.

In this cult, it’s better to have an unemployed bum than to be [gasp] single. Evan was probably all that was available. Plus if a superhero was available, not saying she’d deny her sister but these girls are competitive - Erin’s probably breathing a sigh of relief that her husband has retained his prince and best son in law in the family status - likely since business owner John wants to spend no more than 5 days a year with them across all holidays combined. Chad has aged a LOT in 4 yrs. He’s only 30 but damn the wrinkles around the eyes. It’s got to be the usual young father/provider stress combined with a princess wife and in laws who are takers.

Who was the one who kept bursting out crying during/before Erin’s wedding? Pretty sure it was Carlin - so they’re close. Makes sense bc Erin in turn was sooooo concerned re getting Carlin married off - she’s the one who found loser Evan who met the criteria of being single, male, and working a church function.

Has anyone said/suggested that Erin was a crybaby princess? She strikes me as that type but I wonder if we’ve seen something like that. Makes sense that her emo, teary eyed at the drop of a hat - husband fell for an emotional princess. In that case it makes perfect sense bc Josie really is the one visiting her all the time. Tori and Carlin are loud and obnoxious though Tori has toned down a lot for Bobby. I can’t see Alyssa enjoying their loud obnoxious behavior - she seems like the quiet calm type. Don’t know much about Josie but if she’s also quiet and calm, I can see why she’d vibe with Alyssa more than the obnoxious twins.

Alyssa now seems like she wants nothing to do with her loud, large family, though I feel like she has some individual sibling ties. I want to say she's close with Josie (maybe?) as Josie seems to visit Alyssa and John without the rest of the horde. I'm sure Kelton had something to do with that (as Kelton and Bobby went to school together in FL) but I feel like there were even recent pics of her visiting even though Kelton is in Tenn now. Alyssa did used to do all the cooking, so who knows maybe she bonded with Michael that way. I feel like when she announced her second pregnancy (with M&Ms but they had driven down to Tenn and were waiting outside the house), she said something about Michael -- like she had already told Michael that she was pregnant or told Michael she wanted to space out her kids or something. So I guess if they're talking to each other on the phone about personal info, there's some closeness there; it would be just as easy to not discuss childbearing with Michael so as not to hurt her feelings or whatever.

Michael and Jana have always struck me as the stereotypical older daughters who dutifully did what they were supposed to -- believe the garbage their parents preached; raised the kids bc that what the daughters are supposed to do etc. Except I think they probably both thought that their other sisters would be in the same boat as them, except their other sisters being a bit younger had an advantage bc seeing what her life was like -- they realized they didn't want that and went into immediate "protect myself" mode so they wouldn't be the ones tasked with potty training or sewing clothes or whatever. Alyssa and Erin both strike me as bitchy, whereas Michael seems more genuine. You know Alyssa and Erin always looked down on their fat(ter than them - though not actually fat) older sister given that they were blonde and beautiful. And in a cult based on competition for men and babies, you know the pity for her only increased when they got themselves married at 21 and 19, whereas their older sister was sweating it out until age 25 and practically had to beg Brandon to marry her -- while their suitors chased them. So then Michael gets married and she can't even gloat about it for a second bc they can't make a baby -- so the pity continues. And sure Erin had baby issues too, but those are long forgotten now that she pops out a kid per year so now it's back to "aw poor Michael." You know as sad as it looked to have her mom as her maid of honor, I'm glad she didn't ask Erin or Alyssa. I guess it's not allowed in a family where you have so many sisters, but she should've asked Jana under the guise of -- I have so many sisters, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings so Jana is maid of honor and all the sisters are the bridal party.

Isn't Carlin already courting Evan or no? I'm guessing it's time for Zach to have baby #3. He got married within weeks of Erin and like a yr ahead of Alyssa and both of them have announced #3. What does it say about his ability to make babies if he isn't in the competition for #3?!

He has a handsome face but already has the fundy pudge. Not visible in a suit, but we've seen the start of the gut -- esp visible when he was sitting there in basketball shorts and a t shirt talking to Gil about getting permission to propose. Overall the wedding looks nice, but screams "budget" which I'm sure it is. The dresses are nice, but why didn't the guys get their suits tailored? I don't think I've ever a man in a suit with 6 inches of pant sitting on his shoes. Didn't look closely enough, so I don't know if this was true of all the groomsmen -- but in any case, at least hem the groom's pants since people will be looking at him?? Frankly where was Michaela -- isn't this kind of thing her job? I normally love Christmas weddings, but theirs just screams "cheap." You want Christmas trees with lights -- awesome. Must you use lights with white strings that's visible from miles away - is that just what Gil had in that shed of his? They make lights with dark strings/wiring specifically so it blends with evergreens and from a distance you can only see the lights, not the strings. And then they just had too much other random stuff on stage/thru the church. The wall of lights they tried to make behind them was way too small given how big the stage was and how many people were on it -- either make it much much wider, or don't have it. The weird lamp post behind Gil?? The random dead (and spray painted white) or plastic tree branches through the church - what was that supposed to be?? I don't understand why fundies think if a bit of cheap décor is good, more is better. Didn't anyone ever tell them less is more? This time of the year, every church is filled with poinsettias (or the bride/groom can provide them), wreaths, and a Christmas tree. You don't really need much else for décor. That's what Zach and Whitney's wedding looked like and it was classy looking. Of course Whitney was willing to roll with it and IIRC their colors were red/white, as Zach wore a red vest. I can see Bobby and Tori having a LOT more opinion on everything, regardless of the fact that they don't have money or professions other than the job Gil made up for his son in law. Just went back and looked -- yep -- they saved on alterations for all the guys. You can definitely see Trace, Evan, Lawson, and Kelton's pants were too long -- so I suspect it was all of them. Classy.