cereality

It's unfair but that's how it goes. Fundie guys -- and all guys really -- can marry later bc their fertility isn't changing year to year in their 20s. Plus even in the Bates marriages, the good looking/employed guys were older than their wives -- Chad and John were both 5+ yrs older than Erin and Alyssa who were like 21 and 19. Chad wasn't that far from 30 IIRC. At age 28, Lawson can easily court at 22 yr old or even a 19 yr old if he so chooses. That gives him 2.5 more years to mess around with "his music" and then 6 months before he's ready to court, he can easily snag some kind of production/office gopher job in Nashville in the music industry or come back to his hometown and re launch his mowing lawns business. The benefit for these guys is that fundie girls are typically raised paycheck to paycheck with many siblings and small homes. These girls aren't expecting a man who is bringing home 100k and benefits or even 75k; a guy willing to work who can bring home 30 or 40k and provide a cute 2 bedroom rental home like Chad's house or tiny apartment like Brandon is like hitting the lotto.

I think the Duggar boys have had a snag though bc they aren't even average looking, have no means of supporting a wife besides relying on JB's money, and I think even other fundie families wonder what the hell is going on in that home. With Josh molesting his sisters and then repeatedly cheating on this wife, you know others are thinking -- are the other brothers capable of that too -- and thus no one wants to encourage a daughter to date a Duggar. These aren't normal families where siblings have independent thoughts and views -- in fact -- just the opposite, they are cults where you are NOT supposed to have that and your siblings are your best friends -- so of course people suspect the brothers. OTOH no such allegations of the Bates boys and the Bates have raised their sons (and expect their sons in law) to be self supporting. Zach is a cop and I imagine Nathan could support a wife/family since it appears that he's working for a flight school full time. Lawson and Trace probably can't right now-- but Trace was talking about starting his own business and Lawson will find himself a job or business when he's ready to marry. Honestly I think it's just the expectation in that family so they do it -- they know that unlike JB, dad can't just direct the revenue from one cell phone tower to your bank account and give you one of his rental properties to live in. That's why all the Bates sons/sons in law -- except Bobby and Evan -- are making their own way.

If anything, I think Gil is the more accepting and chill one in that marriage, not Kelly. Of course in his perfect world, he wants every child married to another fundie and producing 10+ grandkids and raising them all the fundie way. But I think he also understands that may not happen and ultimately he seems to want his kids to be happy and his daughters to be taken care of well. Honestly if his kids married Christians, I don't think he'd lose as much sleep as Kelly if one decided to go fundie lite or mainstream Christian or if one decided 2 kids were enough or whatever; he may not love it, but I think he'd take the approach of they're happy and good people, my job is done, those bedroom decisions are for them to make on their own. When he gave Evan permission to court Carlin, I thought there was some real reservation there -- much more than the usual "I don't want to give another daughter away" joking with the other sons in law; there was much more -- you're young [i.e. you have no means of financial support], you don't know who you're going to be yet, she's young too, this might not work out but give it a shot . . . . Hope there's a LONG courtship and engagement with that one, though knowing Kelly they'll be walking down the aisle next year. I have to imagine that everything that household works along gender lines -- with mom talking to the girls about this stuff and dad to the boys. While mom has married/courted off daughter after daughter, even to loser guys lately, dad has 3 sons in their early to mid 20s and hasn't been able to pressure anyone to take a wife (though I think Trace was/is getting to know someone). He could easily impart his "wisdom" to Nathan and tell him to get over Ashley and find himself a local girl before they're all taken or to Lawson and tell him to give up the music thing, get himself a job or business in the next yr bc that'll make him marriage material. Yet he seems not to be doing that and is letting them pursue their own goals right now of flying and music. Heck there was even a time when he went out to lunch with the little girls and one of them said something about how it's sad to grow up bc then you have to get married and leave and he said "you don't have to leave, you can stay with Dad forever if you want to." I know it was only a conversation with an 8 yr old, but fundie mom Kelly would 100% have taken the opportunity to impart how she will want to get married in 12 yrs bc marriage is such a blessing and then she can have her own kids and be a mom etc. while Gil took the more "normal" -- you don't have to leave your family -- approach that you'd take with a kid.

Looks to me like Alyssa is in "let's get it over with" mode when it comes to making babies. She has said repeatedly -- when she was first married and in more recent "trivia" episodes -- that she wants 6. She doesn't seem to enjoy kids. Sure she loves her kids and they look well taken care of, but I think she enjoys a clean/quiet house more. I think she'll be happy to have a half dozen 8-15 yr olds, more than she will a half dozen babies so it's like, let's get the baby stuff over with. Erin and Chad, I STILL don't get it. She's had bleeding type of complications that they've said need to be monitored carefully, she needs shots to maintain pregnancies, she and Prince Chad have been blessed with 2 kids -- one of each -- and they're STILL willing to roll the dice on health to have another? And probably another after that and another after that?? That's where I think the Bates are just as fundie as the Duggars and the rest of them. They are more polished, more modern, allow their kids more freedom and yet they are fundie thru and thru. They've been indoctrinated from such a young age that they likely see no other option besides making a baby every yr. I do think Kelly isn't as chill behind close doors as she acts. I feel like if one of her kids -- esp her daughters -- suggested she didn't want to get married, didn't want babies, or was content with her 2 babies and didn't want anymore, Kelly would be laying on some guilt re more grandkids PLUS God has blessed you sooooo much with this family and such a good husband, it's your duty to continue to make more babies and you need to pray that God puts you back on the right path of baby making. Now of course these couples have their own free will and it's not like she can show up in their bedrooms and command John or Chad to perform, but I think she does influence her daughters' thinking -- esp. the ones she's closer to. I can see her "counseling" Erin about how doctors don't know everything, you had 2 successful pregnancies, leave it to God. I can see her being a bit more hands off with Alyssa simply bc Alyssa wants nothing to do with the family and Kelly is probably savvy enough to realize that if she pressures Alyssa into having more kids or whatever when Alyssa doesn't want to, she'll see even less of Alyssa and her kids. I'm convinced that Kelly's desperation for all her daughters to be good fundie women -- i.e. married and making babies -- is the reason she's pushing her daughters into the hands of loser guys. I mean Evan -- really? A fundie family band with no marketable skills? But she knows Carlin is loud and annoying and lots of fundie guys won't touch that, so if someone is interested, let's get it done.

What happened -- he married a Duggar girl. The plan was to go on a mission, come back/get married/take up a corporate accounting job. He did all that and then his stage 5 clinger wife could not handle the idea that he was working outside the home [gasp] 40 hrs a week. She was driving him to and from work, showing up to lunch with him many times a week, and I can only imagine calling/texting all day long to where his attention was more on her than his actual work and then complaining 24-7 when he was home about how HARD this life was on her, how lonely she was etc. Jill has worn the pants in that marriage since day 1 -- just like Michelle. At some point he probably starts to realize his FBI dream ain't never going to happen. If she can't handle being a stay home wife 5 min from her family home so he can work a 9-5 job, how will she handle the fact that the FBI sends you off to training (alone -- without your wife) for months; then moves you to wherever they need you -- often DC but it can be any number of other big cities as well where there is a lot of high end financial crime. I mean if she's this miserable in Arkansas 5 min from home, how will she handle it when he gets a duty station in Miami for 5 yrs and they can only afford to visit Arkansas 2x/yr? At that point he figured, might as well forget the FBI and let this Walmart thing play out as it will. Well it plays out with him being forced to quit/getting fired/getting laid off. And he thinks - well it's for the best bc I need to be home to raise my wife and her family is always talking God anyway and I loved my missionary days, so we'll go do that. And then they go to Central America where he realizes that not only can she not handle being alone for 40 hrs/wk 5 min from home, she also can't stand being outside her habitat bc she is unnerved by falling shower rods and different food in the grocery store -- even when he is with her 24-7 (or 23-7 - maybe he was mission-earing an hr/day). So now he's just thrown his hands up with his life bc he doesn't know how to make his damn wife happy . . . . In a way I do feel bad for him. If he still had his dad, it might have been different EVEN IF he had married Jilly. He might have had someone in his corner saying -- no the FBI was a lifelong dream for you, apply, and if you happen to get in then you and your wife will work together to make a life for yourself in your duty station; or saying ok -- the FBI is too much, but stick with Walmart son, she will get used to it and in 2 yrs you will get promoted and have more flexibility with your schedule etc. He just may have had an adult male who'd show him that you don't have to give up a dream immediately if a spouse doesn't agree OR that there ARE options besides a life spent sitting on your @$$ trying to collect passive income. Heck he probably could've pointed Derick towards some detective type units in the police department that work on more financial/cyber crimes.

Maybe up north and/or in states that are blue in part -- but in the Bible belt, there are PLENTY of small businesses that'd hire him if he wanted to get off his @$$ and work. I mean look at the Bates sons in law -- they happen to have found work with a fundie metals shop owner, a fundie HVAC business, a fundie plumbing company and then of course Gil owns a fundie tree company. Tennessee isn't politically/demographically different from Arkansas -- these same kinds of businesses exist in Ark. Does that kid remind anyone of Derick -- in the mouth/lips specifically? I know people have said he looks like Spurgeon -- but honestly this kid is way cuter than Spurge.

Definitely don't agree with the folks saying Derick couldn't even get a job. Yes he could. At a huge multinational with an HR department that is careful about background checks/social media -- no -- because he has brought too much controversy on himself and those kinds of employers don't need you when they can hire an identical 28 yr old with an accounting degree in a entry level role whose background/social media check comes up clean. But not everyone works for big companies -- most don't. And let's not forget they live in the Bible belt where there are LOTS of owners of garages; metals shops; contracting companies; landscaping companies etc. who DO view transgender/LGBT/anything other than man married to woman -- as non sense and as lifestyle "choices" made by people who aren't Christian enough. So yeah if any one of these needed an office manager or finance manager (which small businesses tend to), Derick could get hired with his state school business degree + 9 months experience. These businesses are not looking for Harvard and Wharton grads with a dozen years experience; they are looking for someone with enough math skills and a degree to manage the books, which Derick can. Now the issue for Derick is -- he's gotten so used to lazying around at home for 3 yrs that a 40 hr a week job where he had to show up by 9 am would kick his ass. Jilly is in distraction mode. Hubby gets fired and within 1 day -- she lets herself be photographed in pants; posts a pic of her other grandpa with a Veterans Day message; and now posts a 4 month pic of Samuel. Nothing to see here folks, we're a normal Christian family just going about our weekend . . . .

Does this mean we won't hear about however that birth went in the next season? I'm thinking no - right? Bc Jilly Muffin can certainly be involved when the sisters are fellowshipping or when she's helping the next sister buy a wedding dress or providing medical care to Joy when she's in labor (cannot believe I just referred to THAT as medical care) bc those things are done without Derick. But I can't imagine how you do a birth episode without Derick -- presumably he was by her side the whole time like Bin was with Jessa for "coaching" purposes so what would they do -- blur him out?? Someone remind me -- that birth was a c section right? But did they try to birth at home anyway and then end up with an emergency c section? I can't imagine Jilly heeded any real doctor's advice re -- if you want to birth naturally after an emergency last time, do it in the hospital where we can monitor you. But it's been long enough that I've blocked out these details.

Don't check in a few days and Derick is off TLC?? Not that I'm shocked -- he was a nothing anyway and now he's a nothing stirring up drama. Interesting (though not at all surprising) that not one of the adult married siblings has come out with having their own opinion -- esp. the brothers in law; they were all raised by different parents, some in different parts of the country and yet they've all drank the same exact amount of kool aid. Hell one of them could even say -- Derick and our family is entitled to our religious views but I disagree with my brother in law speaking out against Jazz and her family bc they are entitled to live exactly as they wish -- just as we can practice our faith exactly as we wish -- and they don't need to justify anything to us. Guess being a married adult allows you to get it on nightly and go on those coveted married couples only joint dates, but it does not allow you to have an opinion separate and apart from JB and the rest of the family. Frankly as media and PR saavy as they fancy themselves, do the couples not realize that whichever couple makes this kind of statement is going to get the lion's share of the episodes going forward and thus bigger paychecks?? It isn't in JB and Mullet's hands -- they are barely guests on the show themselves -- it is in TLC's hands. Interestng strategy by Derick though to bite the hand that feeds him when he also refuses to have a 40 hr week job. I mean reality TV is the perfect job for someone who wants to lay around full time with a few hrs a week of "ministering." Lol. The Bible says that a man who does not provide for his family is worse than a non believer. Ahem -- before throwing stones at others Derick for their imperfect faith, maybe look within to see if you are doing exactly 100% of what the Bible requires you to be doing . . . .

He did -- because he was away and the training was tough. But reality is, he stuck with it and made it. I'm pretty sure any Duggar son or son in law would be kicked out of a police academy in about a day.

This whole -- no one shall leave the house to work and we must be with our honeys 24-7 -- seems very much a Duggar thing. In their BFF (supposedly) Bates clan -- people work. Zach is a cop and does shift work and [gasp] even went away for months to the police academy leaving his bride all alone. Chad is a finance manager for a metals shop and also gone 40 hrs a week. Brandon is a minister but it appears to be a "corporate" job with Gothard or someone that actually has him out of the house all week -- and probably with a lengthy commute in Chicago -- leaving Michaela alone to make her baby gear that she is selling as a side business. And there's John who is part owner of a heating/AC business who appears to work more than 40 hrs -- as he's been shown coming home from work at 5 pm only to go out again to do a night repair job for a major business (bc car dealerships and restaurants run into AC problems too but they need them repaired overnight so as not to have to close down the business all day) and on top of that he and Alyssa run a commercial cleaning business and go clean stores/offices at night so they are ready to open the next morning. So apparently laziness isn't a fundie thing, it's a Duggar thing -- probably from years of being spoiled with TLC checks just coming home and seeing daddy at home 7 days/wk, the kids all got the impression that life MUST BE lived on passive income -- whether TV or rent checks from rental properties and cell phone towers -- but not from actual 40 hr/wk work. Except for Austin, who seems industrious, all of the sons in law are the same. Even those who didn't start out that way (Derick had a corporate job; Jer - had he married someone else I bet ministry would be a weekend hobby not a fulltime job) have very much adopted the Duggar view of the world. After all it's easier to roll out of bed at 10 am and do some "ministry" via Twitter and YouTube than it is get out of bed at 7 am to be in your office at 8 am and dealing with actual bosses who have real deadlines.

Get him a job in the registrars office/financial aid office/health system billing department or somewhere on that campus and get her a job in the university daycare/preschool (which every large university has) or as a nanny for a professor living on campus; enroll her 2 kids in said daycare/preschool and boom the whole family is on campus every day together and can meet up on lunches and breaks, commute to and from work/school together etc. But alas it's easier to sit at home and have donations and TLC checks rolling in with your days broken up by some "ministry" or some outrage at some ill that is happening in this nation bc people have lost religion . . . . What has happened to Derick's brain? He's not that many yrs out of college (about 5 yrs)? He must have his private moments where he thinks back to some all nighter that he pulled and scored the A; or some group project that they worked on 24-7 and did really well on; or some internship or job (Walmart accounting maybe?) that he scored that he really really wanted at the time?? Doesn't he miss having SOME sense of hard work/accomplishment/fulfillment? Can he really say he's getting that from fake missions and twitter? Aren't those memories even more prominent now as his current "job" (don't know if it's real or made up) seems to have him around UofA students -- so he's surely hearing them talk about exams and on campus interviews and dream jobs and where they hope to be when they're 25?? How can he not think a little about what might have been?

Looked at their instagrams for the first time in a while and I'll say it -- they look good. They look older and more tired than any 26 or 28 yr old I know (who isn't an investment banker, young lawyer or young doctor working 24-7). But being back in Arkansas suits her and being back on a college campus -- even with a nothing ministry/made up job -- suits him. He's gained some of the much needed weight back and kind of looks like he did when he proposed to her. It's got to be far less stressful on him too being back in Arkansas bc now he has to worry less about a wife who may lose it at any moment bc she's far from her family and is rattled by a loud noise or different food in the grocery store or whatever. Now if she starts to get weepy, all he has to do is say -- let's call Jana and ask her to bring James and Hannie -- and boom the instant Duggar cure arrives for his wife and he can step aside. Wasted potential is all I see in that one. He's a college grad with an accounting degree who bought into Duggar laziness. Even now -- he's not even 30 and it isn't too late. Frankly he doesn't even need to knock it out of the park with a big corporate job. He could pick up a regular office job -- maybe even at University of Arkansas since universities are big, bureaucratic and have a million administrative departments. He could easily make mid 5 figures with full good benefits plus eventual tuition benefits for his sons -- just in case he finds his balls in the next 2 decades and tells Jill that every member of his family went to college, so his kids are going to college. And those kinds of jobs aren't super challenging -- 9 to 5 at most with plenty of vacation time for mission vacations. And who knows this time around, Jill may allow it bc she's too busy at home with 2 kids to be driving to lunch with him daily (or frankly on a college campus -- she COULD bring the kids to play/wander the campus daily and he could run out and meet her on lunches and breaks and it'd be less weird since this isn't corporate America) and/or she may realize -- well I don't want my man working 40 hrs a week but if the choice is 40 hrs/wk 10 miles down the road OR being a wanderer who wants to go back to go back to Central America every 6 months and make me live in that misery -- well maybe it's better that I let him be chained to a cubicle bc it'll keep me in my hometown . . . .

I'm thinking yes. I imagined it also continued 20 seconds later when the final act culminated and suddenly felt wetness down there . . . .

Watched the season finale in rerun last night bc I didn't catch it the first time. Seeing Bobby and Tori babysitting the younger kids/grandkids -- like 6-7 kids total was a flash into the future of what their lives will look like -- bc I imagine by next yr, child #1 will be here already. Would've made me want to run screaming at 22 -- not to mention most guys -- yet when Tori said "this is what'll it'll be like someday," Bobby was thrilled and said he hoped so -- not at all terrified. So I guess they are made for each other -- 2 fundies with no marketable skills, where the husband will provide by working for his father in law -- but raring to go to produce a child rarely. While Bobby has an attractive face, he already has that tubby fundie belly setting in -- so visible when he was in shorts and t shirt talking to Gil re engagement. And similarly, when Evan pulls Gil and Kelly aside to talk about courting, he's got his harness on -- completely highlighting the shape of everything in his crotch. I'm sure Carlin is excited about that -- but do your mother and father in law really need to see an outline of those appendages??

You're right it probably was Trace -- who is about that built and has a whole new look. Kelly had posted a pic of him with Joe Duggar - with Trace wearing the groomsmen suit/tie so yeah he was in the wedding.

I think the wedding talk with the sons (Joseph's -- be open with your wife; and Joshly's -it's like legos) is a way for the Duggar parents to show TLC and the viewers how relevant they are to their sons' marriages. It serves opposite the natural -- OMG I'm giving MY possession to another man -- talk that is had moments before a daughter's wedding. Reality is most men figure out marriage without mama and daddy explaining it to them 5 minutes before the wedding. Frankly if you have as perfect of a marriage and home life as JB and Michelle claim to have, there is nothing to explain whatsoever bc in the 22 yrs of living with you, the son knows how a marriage works. And in families where the parents may speak up regarding sons' relationships -- often in conservative homes where the parents know the son has no experience with girls or in cases where the parents know their son doesn't have many guy friends to talk with -- I'm fairly positive those talks start happening when a relationship starts, not 5 min before the vows. In this case, wouldn't it have made sense for JB to sit down with Joe when he started the get to know you period or was about to take get-to-know-you into a courtship and said -- son she's a nice girl and I think she digs you but you're a quiet guy and you should make sure she knows how you feel about her; you need to speak your feelings in words and not just assume she's a mind reader . . . . It's actually useful advice that can help through a get-to-know you and courtship, not just a marriage. I feel like we've seen the Bates say these kinds of things WAY before the wedding. Can't recall exactly but they were recently talking to one of their overly exuberant (read: obnoxious) middle daughters who is newly courting about how she needs to learn how her courter communicates and he needs to learn how she communicates and they need to see if it works for them (i.e. let your obnoxiousness be known now; we don't want you to chase him away but better for him to bow out now than for you to keep sweet, you get married, and you two hate each other in 3 months when true colors come out). They did the same with Nathan -- talking to him about really thinking about whether New Yorker Ashley would be able to adjust to BFE Tenn. or whether he could handle NYC or whether there was some other compromise or whether the life situations just couldn't mesh. They didn't say it 15 min before a wedding! They said it early enough so that the couple could think hard and move their separate ways . . . .

Who was the guy who walked in with Joseph in the morning - in the green t shirt, handsome guy. He's different than the guy in all black in the grooms room bc green t shirt guy was clean shaven. I saw and wondered if Joseph had a few actual friends and wondered if that guy would be best man - though it turned out Josiah was best man. The guy who rapelled down with the ring was a friend from ALERT and Joseph did go to college in Tenn for one semester -- so here's hoping he has a few non family guys that he can hang with once in a while.

What was noticeable to me was that Joseph got a full hug from his future father in law while moments before getting side hugs from him own parents. Kendra has that fundie father daughter bond - ugh. A first look with your father?? Playing Butterfly Kisses at the altar once you're already married? I know he hadn't pronounced them married but they had said their vows and exchanged rings by then. Though at least he didn't kiss the bride before Joseph could. Hopefully there's nothing truly creepy going on and we can chalk it up to the fact that if her parents are even 40, they had her at age 20 and all sort of grew up together. I honestly hope that they become involved parents in Joseph's life bc they do seem to be good parents and lord knows he could use someone who wants to love him, guide him, and spoil him with his favorite foods once in a while -- since his parents don't want to. Is it possible that Joseph is closer with his siblings than his married sisters purported to be? I'm surprised that he wrote letters to his siblings - even his sisters. And when they were sitting around before the wedding -- the joking between the brothers seemed real, not like the girls' fake gushing and not mean sprited like I recall when Josh was on the scene. I wonder if Joe and JD stepped up to be the big brothers in that family once it became known that Josh was molesting the sisters and then cheating on Anna.

Did anyone watch closely enough to recall the pastors speech - elegantly given from his phone? 879k was what - the cost of raising her? Bc I call BS on that given that meals and housing a kid in an existing home ain't that expensive. And let's be real you're marrying her off at 18, not paying for her to go to college and med school. Any other "costs" mentioned?

So if the husband works at Crown, that must mean Tabitha lives in town. Must be nice for Chad for to have some family in town now, though I wonder if he allows his new brother in law around his children given his history?? And now Erin and Chad are expecting #3. Disappointing. After all the problems Erin has had -- they can't just be happy with 2 kids? They'll really keep rolling the dice and having a kid every year? What was all the big talk with the doctor in that case when he said -- oh this is #2 of 19 and she was quick to clarify it's #2 of 2 implying that they were or will use some kind of BC. I'm guessing they're using nothing. Kid #2 was an accident. Once you've had an accident once and the wife's health is in play, most people will do something more reliable for BC.

Austin wants kids and thus needed a wife. Joy was available and wouldn't require much romancing or courting since he grew up around her. He likes her bros and thought it'd be easy to just marry one of their sisters and thus have inlaws he likes. Plus most girls in fundie land are girly girls or turn into it when it comes to courting/newlywed years. He doesn't strike me like a Chad Paine who was going to have tears in his eyes as he did sweet gestures for his woman and who was going to lay out the red carpet for her. He was probably attracted to the one fundie girl he'd ever seen who was a genuine tomboy - likes construction; is down for kayaking, waking barefoot in the woods etc. In that sense she's his "equal" and like one of the boys so he doesn't have to work hard to understand her.

Granted I'm a germophobe but when Austin went to reach into Joy's hammock to feel her feet, all I could think was -- nooooo she has the hygenie of a 10 yr old boy and doesn't necessarily bathe daily, do not touch her visibly black feet when you are about to eat breakfast in 10 min. Breakfast consisted of what looked like a huge pan of scrambled eggs to be wrapped in tortillas so Austin was going to have to touch breakfast (bc it can' all be eaten with a fork) after touching his beloved's feet without having any opportunity to wash hands since they were on a campground. Glad to see Ben's geromphobe status is in tact even though he's not allowed an opinion in his own home. You could see how grossed out he was when his wife went after the stick horses and rocking horse and insisted -- it's fine -- there's no lice. She didn't even look and even if she did -- it's not like that stuff is visible to the naked eye upon one glance. I tend to agree with Ben here -- he rightfully does not want to introduce bed bugs into his home which is always a possibility with soft items that you can't wash and run thru the dryer. If I were him I would have insisted that they were staying in the trunk of the car parked in the sun for the next 2 days to kill off anything on them. Of course he likely said nothing bc he knows he has on say in what happens in his own home.

It's one thing to want your dr. kid to look over test results/talk to him about what your dr. told you -- almost as a second opinion from someone you trust. But this family is seriously odd. The son is seriously the mom's (and the whole family's) official primary care doc? They really want to talk to their brother about UTIs and have him doing their turn their head and cough or breast exams? Or do they just skip those bc it's too uncomfortable for all involved? Honestly as odd as this family is, I'm surprised that the son wasn't giving the mom a breast exam. And yes I remember looking it up when this was just a pilot -- the doctor son and the dr son in law do work at the same hospital; that's why it's a big deal that the dr. son in law needs to move out bc the whole family is like -- why -- the dr. son can commute, so can you; though the difference is son in law is only a resident and bc they routinely work overnights etc. he is more likely to be driving home after pulling all nighters etc. whereas the son is more established and more 9-5.

I imagine the same thing that happened to women back in the 1940s -- when they didn't have beyond a HS education and didn't earn bc they raised the kids. The lucky ones had a family that was at least lower middle class/working class enough that they could take their daughter and her 7 kids in. The ones who didn't -- suddenly found themselves with a giant family in a rental apt, mom suddenly having to work (often secretarial back then) and older kids raising young ones and hopefully some help from family/church/food stamps. To me though the Bates don't seem as dumb as other totally uneducated, unexposed fundie families.