ZeroDiscipline

I don't think the non-suicide or the molestation were planned. I think they thought Tiffani would only stick around for a year, so they didn't put too much effort into her backstory. When it was clear that Tiffani/ Val was resonating with fans and was going to stick around, they had to concoct all kinds of bullshit. The molestation storyline could have been more compelling, with a little more effort and planning. Tiffani did the best she could with the material. Ret-conning that she actually killed her dad was super stupid, but the show was a complete garbage fire by then.

I was born in 1974, and got my first cellphone in 2003. I didn't know anyone with a pager.

I am not buying any of this. I think Jack's death and the fire are two separate things. Kate and Randall were crying, but I feel like they could have been crying because their house burned down. They seemed upset, but not like "dad died" upset, more like "holy crap our house burned down" upset. And same for Miguel, he seemed like he was helping the kids out because their house burned down, not because his best friend died. It could be something like Jack got hurt doing something unrelated and was in the hospital, or was in jail or rehab or something, and the fire happened while he was in jail, rehab or hospital. And Rebecca was on her way to tell the kids and Miguel something about Jack but the fire happened at the same time, and Rebecca pulled up to the house and was like "FML, my husband just died/ is in jail/ rehab/ the hospital and now our fucking house burned down?" All of the talk about how Kate was the one to tell her brother about dad's death could also be that Kate was the one that had to tell Kevin about the fire too. Both things can be true. And I think the redhead girl/ Randall's girlfriend is Miguel's daughter, and I am going to go a step further and say that she is not around in present day time either or else she would have been mentioned at the holidays last year, or at the very least, the Big Three would have mentioned having a step-sibling during all of those "getting to know you" talks they had with all of the strangers and bit players that have entered their lives. So, if Miguel lost his daughter, and Rebecca lost her husband, they would certainly be bound by deep grief and it makes total sense that they would marry each other because they are dead inside and don't want to be alone.

Agree so hard. I thought the same thing when Jack drunkenly tried to get Rebecca a gig at that bar. I was so afraid the bartender was going to be all "You know what? That drunkass has got heart, sure I'll give his wife a shot". It was refreshing seeing both Kate and Jack get shot down like they would in real life.

Or her dog or something?

Milo is really good at playing a real, day-to-day alcoholic. I stayed up to watch him on Fallon later and they showed the clip of him with Miguel, saying that sheets are for long-term guests. It was clear that he was drunk even then.

Sadly, they don't get any better after this. Maybe the 5 year anniversary episode, but once Val leaves there is no reason to continue.

But did you start crying and shaking and call the parents of your fellow 19 year old adults that were indulging in the devil's lettuce and threaten to get them arrested? If not, then you were far from this level of naivete. Haha me too I love that Val uses Brandon's kiss-ass boy scoutness against him.

Yeah, and looks nothing at all like Val. I love the concept of former primetime soap opera queens coming back to be the parents of the niners. Worked out awesome with Stephanie Beacham playing Dylan's mother. But Michelle Phillips was the wrong choice for this. Maybe Michele Lee would have been better. And where the hell is Donna Mills? She could have been in here somewhere.

Unfortunately, it is true that even in 1997 there were some total squares on college campuses, at least, in small-town Minnesota. Especially amongst the sorority girls. I had a friend who lived with three other girls in a house. My friend smoked weed with us over at our house, down the street. She knew they didn't like it, but they seemed to have a don't ask/ don't tell policy. Friend got braver, and smoked a bowl in her room. The other girls freaked out and said they were moving out and called her parents. They were actually crying, like real tears and we were all like whaaaaaaaaaat. My friend ended up moving out and into another, more appropriate apartment with another of our friends that was looking for a roommate. We are all fine now as 43 year old adults. We also had a friend, huge Phish kind of guy, who dated a sorority girl. She would make a big show of leaving the room and being a huge bitch whenever we would smoke pot in front of her. She often argued with us about how it was "illegal" and that is why it offended her so much. She would double down with "The government outlawed it, and we should follow what the government said because they know what is best for us." So then we would remind her that she was under 21 yet enjoyed drinking alcohol like the rest of us, and her response was that "alcohol was legal!" And yet, our friend dated her for far longer than you would expect.

Lol. This show was never ever never considered Emmy-worthy, not even in the early days when it was kind of good. Tori Spelling was the absolute worst actress of the bunch. But I totally can see how she would think it was possible to be considered for an Emmy, considering who her father is. Edited to add-- I stand corrected. Milton Berle was nominated for an Emmy for his guest role, and Jason Priestly, of all people, was nominated for a Golden Globe. I give up.

And also "very convincing, dumbass" after Brandon's bullshit with the stalker. Strong work today.

+1 delivery by Sarah of "her eyes are brown." after hearing how sterling silver roses match Donna's eyes.

good God. Why is Tracey and Brandon's relationship such a chore? These people are 22 years old. If you have to work so hard at it, DUMP!

Greg Evigan! BJ and the Bear, and My Two Dads!

She used up all their goodwill getting them to demand she graduate even though she broke very clearly defined rules in which the repercussions were very clearly spelled out.

She was in this other Spelling soap that lasted not even a season called Pacific Palisades. Some channel once did a marathon when I was recovering from my wisdom teeth extraction surgery and I loved it. But I haven't seen it in 20 years so who's to say how good it actually was.., Those wisdom teeth meds make everything awesome too.

Late to the party, as always, but I remember this very distinctly because the Packers were in the superbowl that year. There are like, 2 people at Steve's party wearing cheeseheads, and it is just so sad. I assume they filmed this episode before knowing what teams were in the superbowl, and threw in some Packer fans just in case. Lazy.

I believe they explained it by saying "It was the '70s".

Mel handled Felice's passive aggression perfectly: Felice: "Unless you are passing out champagne" Mel: "I think we have some champagne" (shrugs).

No one rocks short hair like Jackie. I love her so much.

I clicked through some clickbait on facebook about Sly Stallone, and found something interesting--- Mandy Moore instagrammed a bunch of photos from the set, typical actor stuff, but one photo was of a hat with the slogan "Big Three Construction", as if Jack actually does still have time to get the construction business going before he dies. Might explain why they seem to be rather wealthy in the later years. Make of this what you will.

Hell no! And her dad is the chancellor! I guess they all knew the show was almost over anyway, and maybe Kathleen Robertson hadn't given her notice yet because since she is leaving anyway, this would have been a perfect out on her relationship with Steve, who I love, but is a dumbass and Clare should not date.

But Steve really did plagiarize that paper! Why is he not in more trouble? And Val, I love you always, but really love your take on Donna being the fun police, and how David doesn't need her permission. Val = Dave forever, I hate that this show didn't let them be together.

lol at "You've already said Candyman twice". And the bees. You're killing me.